I think we should give the show a chance.
As you say, it's been plugged a lot so I'd bet it immediately soars over BTSP's viewing figures of last season.
To be fair, I've heard a lot of complaints regarding Soccer AM being a tad dull and repetitive now with its best days long gone.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I'll let you give it a chance on my behalf.
I'm not touching it with a bargepole.
Based on previous Spanish announcements, I'd be surprised if a deal was done anytime before next Easter.
Thanks. It'll be even more interesting then if the final bid date is quite close to the announcement date - because presumably the next Premier League auction will have been completed by the end of this year / early next year if the rumours of the PL wanting to bring it forward are true? That would make the La Liga rights pretty crucial for whoever gets left with the "lesser" rights. They don't make up for loss of PL rights, but they're probably the third most attractive club football rights after the PL and CL.
Thanks. It'll be even more interesting then if the final bid date is quite close to the announcement date - because presumably the next Premier League auction will have been completed by the end of this year / early next year if the rumours of the PL wanting to bring it forward are true? That would make the La Liga rights pretty crucial for whoever gets left with the "lesser" rights. They don't make up for loss of PL rights, but they're probably the third most attractive club football rights after the PL and CL.
La Liga rights are worth far less than Football League / Carling Cup and FA Cup.
- Sky is paying almost £100m per year for Football League / Carling Cup
- BBC/BT are paying a bit over £50m per year for FA Cup
- Sky is paying about £10m per year for La Liga.
OK, the current La Liga contract was pre BT's entry to the market but even if it trebles that would still be less than 1/3 of Football League / Carling Cup.
La Liga rights are certainly significant but they aren't crucial for anyone - because very few people are going to decide to subscribe (or cancel) Sky / BT because of La Liga.
Does anyone know the viewing figures for BT's 2 games on Sunday? or at least unofficial figures.
Someone earlier in this forum said it was an average of around 870k for the Community Shield but there was no source.
I'd expect about 300-500k for Liverpool v Dortmund if it was 870k (or so) for the CS.
Someone earlier in this forum said it was an average of around 870k for the Community Shield but there was no source.
I'd expect about 300-500k for Liverpool v Dortmund if it was 870k (or so) for the CS.
If those figures are correct and anything like the Liverpool game then I think BT will be happy with them.
La Liga rights are worth far less than Football League / Carling Cup and FA Cup.
- Sky is paying almost £100m per year for Football League / Carling Cup
- BBC/BT are paying a bit over £50m per year for FA Cup
- Sky is paying about £10m per year for La Liga.
OK, the current La Liga contract was pre BT's entry to the market but even if it trebles that would still be less than 1/3 of Football League / Carling Cup.
La Liga rights are certainly significant but they aren't crucial for anyone - because very few people are going to decide to subscribe (or cancel) Sky / BT because of La Liga.
That 10m for la Liga will no doubt be trebled if not more come next season with both BT and Sky after the rights, I suppose it will all be down to who bids the most realistic price without going totally stupid like they will do come the prem auction in December.
I wonder will either bid crazy money for the la liga and the ICC cricket rights though? if they throw 40million at la liga then the premiership will say well perhaps we will keep going through 2 or 3 rounds of bidding to up the price. the last time I think the premier league had an automatic trigger of a second round if the price between bidders was within a certain range of each other. I wonder will they have it this time.
I wonder will either bid crazy money for the la liga and the ICC cricket rights though?
The thing is that they can't pay crazy money for every set of rights - and certainly not for stuff that, whilst important, isn't that important.
All the talk, quite rightly, is about the Premier League which is more important than anything else - by absolutely miles.
But the current PL rights expire in 2 years time. Sky actually has 5 important contracts expiring within the next 12 months, all of which they will be anxious to retain:
La Liga
ICC
RFU
SANZAR
NFL
But with that many auctions to face they simply can't bid incredibly high on all of them - because if they did they would end up driving their cost base up to a level which couldn't be justified by the value of these rights. Because whilst losing any of these would be a significant blow, none of them are absolute "must haves".
So they have to bid what they think each set of rights is worth.
The same applies to BT - they will be very keen to make any significant rights gains - but again they aren't going to start paying way over the top in all directions.
NB. I would put those 5 contracts into two groups - La Liga, ICC and RFU are all broadly on the same level, SANZAR and NFL are a significant step lower.
It will be interesting to see what, if anything BeIN Sport do in the UK market - they are about to acquire Setanta Sports operations in Australia, opening up another market to them.
It will be interesting to see what, if anything BeIN Sport do in the UK market - they are about to acquire Setanta Sports operations in Australia, opening up another market to them.
Is it possible Sky, BT and BeIn can all have x amount of PL games or is their only ever 2 broadcasters?
Itv4 for la liga, with maybe 6 games a year on itv1? Would itv be willing to pay £10m a year? Very outside shot, but possible.
Skys nightmare is bein and bt bid together, could be curtains for sky if so
With Sky and BT both bidding I think it would surely go for £15m absolute minimum, probably around £20m.
ITV2/3/4/CITV total combined budget is only £120m, of which ITV4 would be small component.
So I think £15m+ would be too much.
(And no real slack in ITV1 budget - they could only put La Liga on ITV1 in daytime where they are spending peanuts anyway so there is no significant displacement).
EDIT: Just wonder if post CL/EL (and FA Cup) there might be some resource reallocation that could mean significant extra funding going into ITV4 to fund something like La Liga particularly given ITV will otherwise have very little content for that demographic.
So, on 2nd thoughts, I will agree with you - outside shot, but possible.
Is it possible Sky, BT and BeIn can all have x amount of PL games or is their only ever 2 broadcasters?
7 separate live packages each being auctioned as a separate property - it's entirely possible to have 3 (or even more) broadcasters winning live packages.
Only PL stipulation last time was nobody could win more than 5 (4 large + 1 small).
In 2001/04 there were 4 live rights owners (Sky, NTL, Telewest and ITV Digital) - although all 4 jointly owned the same package (and Sky was the sole owner of the other, larger, package).
With Sky and BT both bidding I think it would surely go for £15m absolute minimum, probably around £20m.
ITV2/3/4/CITV total combined budget is only £120m, of which ITV4 would be small component.
So I think £15m+ would be too much.
(And no real slack in ITV1 budget - they could only put La Liga on ITV1 in daytime where they are spending peanuts anyway so there is no significant displacement).
EDIT: Just wonder if post CL/EL (and FA Cup) there might be some resource reallocation that could mean significant extra funding going into ITV4 to fund something like La Liga particularly given ITV will otherwise have very little content for that demographic.
So, on 2nd thoughts, I will agree with you - outside shot, but possible.
Even with ITV having 'spare' budget resources with the loss of the UCL & FA Cup, going for La Liga would be a breath too far for them.
Anything can happen, but i see La Liga (IMHO) being snapped up by BT.
The pull of Real Madrid v Barcelona alone is enough to get their whistles wet, ITV don't stand a realistic chance
Even at this stage, I doubt we'll see BeIn entering the UK market come the PL auction. Between Sky and BT, we can already expect (and indeed have seen) the cost of the rights rocket, and it makes little sense for BeIn to throw themselves into the ring at this time.
Having said that, this is the PL auction we're talking about - anything could happen!
Even with ITV having 'spare' budget resources with the loss of the UCL & FA Cup, going for La Liga would be a breath too far for them.
Anything can happen, but i see La Liga (IMHO) being snapped up by BT.
The pull of Real Madrid v Barcelona alone is enough to get their whistles wet, ITV don't stand a realistic chance
I guess it depends on what La Liga wants most - money or exposure. If the latter, which is entirely posible, then I can see ITV4 being in with a fair chance.
Even at this stage, I doubt we'll see BeIn entering the UK market come the PL auction. Between Sky and BT, we can already expect (and indeed have seen) the cost of the rights rocket, and it makes little sense for BeIn to throw themselves into the ring at this time.
Having said that, this is the PL auction we're talking about - anything could happen!
I totally agree, I can't see the UK being an attractive territory for beIN at the moment given the BT Sport-Sky fight. But we don't even know what packages will be on offer in the next auction.
On the Setanta situation, I would add that the various Setanta operations have slightly different ownerships. Whilst Setanta Ireland is 100% owned by Michael O’Rourke, Setanta Australia was owned jointly by Michael O’Rourke, Leonard Ryan and Mark O’Meara via their entity Danu Partners. The enthusiasm to sell Setanta Australia may not therefore apply to Setanta Ireland.
EDIT: Just wonder if post CL/EL (and FA Cup) there might be some resource reallocation that could mean significant extra funding going into ITV4 to fund something like La Liga particularly given ITV will otherwise have very little content for that demographic.
ITV budgets don't work like that - everything must pay for itself.
Saving £80m by not getting Champions League rights doesn't mean there is £80m available to spend on other football.
La Liga games (other than El Clasico) are likely to get around 250,000 viewers. Assuming ITV4 was able to show 75 games live, then at £10m it doesn't reach the necessary break-even point.
ITV has tried to get rights to La Liga on at least two occasions in the past and lost to Sky Sports, so the Spanish clearly don't value exposure over money
ITV budgets don't work like that - everything must pay for itself.
Saving £80m by not getting Champions League rights doesn't mean there is £80m available to spend on other football.
Of course, I realise that.
My point was that without ITV (plc) having the other football content, La Liga would become more valuable to ITV (plc) as content attractive to that demographic.
But of course it has to be profitable in its own right and even in the post CL/EL/FAC era it's very unlikely that it would be.
BT's Chief Executive Gavin Patterson has been speaking to the FT about the next Premier League rights which could be up for auction at the end of the year.
Financial Times "We can go for same as today or potentially go up to bidding for everything. There is a range of options we can look at,” said Gavin Patterson... “It’s hard to believe that we’d be happy with none. At the same time we know what it’s worth to us and we are not going to go crazy.”
Mr Patterson insists that BT would be “financially disciplined” when bidding and that – while lacking the element of surprise this time – it is a stronger position after winning the rights to Champions League and other European games alongside a line-up of rugby and other sports.
The paper points out whilst that no one broadcaster can win the rights to all the matches, by bidding for them all, BT would push up costs for its rivals. It comments that this is the firmest statement to date that BT may acquire more than its current packages.
BT's Chief Executive Gavin Patterson has been speaking to the FT about the next Premier League rights which could be up for auction at the end of the year.
The paper points out whilst that no one broadcaster can win the rights to all the matches, by bidding for them all, BT would push up costs for its rivals. It comments that this is the firmest statement to date that BT may acquire more than its current packages.
Good, the more BT squeeze Sky the better, Sky make 1 billion pounds profit per year?, the more they have to shell out on rights, the less profit, unless they increase subs?, to cover the costs, lose subscribers to ever increasing rises.
The only happy people are EPL football players/teams and Scudamore.
Sky allegedly had to pay three times as much for it's current WWE deal because of interest from BT. I can see the La Liga rights staying with Sky at an inflated cost as it would be rather embarrassing to lose more European football after launching a European football channel.
As for the Premier League rights it's anyone's guess- I suspect the amount of games will increase slightly which would favour both broadcasters.
Comments
I'll let you give it a chance on my behalf.
I'm not touching it with a bargepole.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/aug/14/premier-league-bt-sport-sky-rivalry-rights
La Liga rights are worth far less than Football League / Carling Cup and FA Cup.
- Sky is paying almost £100m per year for Football League / Carling Cup
- BBC/BT are paying a bit over £50m per year for FA Cup
- Sky is paying about £10m per year for La Liga.
OK, the current La Liga contract was pre BT's entry to the market but even if it trebles that would still be less than 1/3 of Football League / Carling Cup.
La Liga rights are certainly significant but they aren't crucial for anyone - because very few people are going to decide to subscribe (or cancel) Sky / BT because of La Liga.
Someone earlier in this forum said it was an average of around 870k for the Community Shield but there was no source.
I'd expect about 300-500k for Liverpool v Dortmund if it was 870k (or so) for the CS.
If those figures are correct and anything like the Liverpool game then I think BT will be happy with them.
That 10m for la Liga will no doubt be trebled if not more come next season with both BT and Sky after the rights, I suppose it will all be down to who bids the most realistic price without going totally stupid like they will do come the prem auction in December.
The thing is that they can't pay crazy money for every set of rights - and certainly not for stuff that, whilst important, isn't that important.
All the talk, quite rightly, is about the Premier League which is more important than anything else - by absolutely miles.
But the current PL rights expire in 2 years time. Sky actually has 5 important contracts expiring within the next 12 months, all of which they will be anxious to retain:
La Liga
ICC
RFU
SANZAR
NFL
But with that many auctions to face they simply can't bid incredibly high on all of them - because if they did they would end up driving their cost base up to a level which couldn't be justified by the value of these rights. Because whilst losing any of these would be a significant blow, none of them are absolute "must haves".
So they have to bid what they think each set of rights is worth.
The same applies to BT - they will be very keen to make any significant rights gains - but again they aren't going to start paying way over the top in all directions.
NB. I would put those 5 contracts into two groups - La Liga, ICC and RFU are all broadly on the same level, SANZAR and NFL are a significant step lower.
Actually media insiders thought it would be Al Jazeera that would challenge Sky at the last auction for EPL rights. No one expected BT to bid
Skys nightmare is bein and bt bid together, could be curtains for sky if so
Is it possible Sky, BT and BeIn can all have x amount of PL games or is their only ever 2 broadcasters?
With Sky and BT both bidding I think it would surely go for £15m absolute minimum, probably around £20m.
ITV2/3/4/CITV total combined budget is only £120m, of which ITV4 would be small component.
So I think £15m+ would be too much.
(And no real slack in ITV1 budget - they could only put La Liga on ITV1 in daytime where they are spending peanuts anyway so there is no significant displacement).
EDIT: Just wonder if post CL/EL (and FA Cup) there might be some resource reallocation that could mean significant extra funding going into ITV4 to fund something like La Liga particularly given ITV will otherwise have very little content for that demographic.
So, on 2nd thoughts, I will agree with you - outside shot, but possible.
7 separate live packages each being auctioned as a separate property - it's entirely possible to have 3 (or even more) broadcasters winning live packages.
Only PL stipulation last time was nobody could win more than 5 (4 large + 1 small).
In 2001/04 there were 4 live rights owners (Sky, NTL, Telewest and ITV Digital) - although all 4 jointly owned the same package (and Sky was the sole owner of the other, larger, package).
Even with ITV having 'spare' budget resources with the loss of the UCL & FA Cup, going for La Liga would be a breath too far for them.
Anything can happen, but i see La Liga (IMHO) being snapped up by BT.
The pull of Real Madrid v Barcelona alone is enough to get their whistles wet, ITV don't stand a realistic chance
Having said that, this is the PL auction we're talking about - anything could happen!
I totally agree, I can't see the UK being an attractive territory for beIN at the moment given the BT Sport-Sky fight. But we don't even know what packages will be on offer in the next auction.
On the Setanta situation, I would add that the various Setanta operations have slightly different ownerships. Whilst Setanta Ireland is 100% owned by Michael O’Rourke, Setanta Australia was owned jointly by Michael O’Rourke, Leonard Ryan and Mark O’Meara via their entity Danu Partners. The enthusiasm to sell Setanta Australia may not therefore apply to Setanta Ireland.
ITV budgets don't work like that - everything must pay for itself.
Saving £80m by not getting Champions League rights doesn't mean there is £80m available to spend on other football.
La Liga games (other than El Clasico) are likely to get around 250,000 viewers. Assuming ITV4 was able to show 75 games live, then at £10m it doesn't reach the necessary break-even point.
ITV has tried to get rights to La Liga on at least two occasions in the past and lost to Sky Sports, so the Spanish clearly don't value exposure over money
Of course, I realise that.
My point was that without ITV (plc) having the other football content, La Liga would become more valuable to ITV (plc) as content attractive to that demographic.
But of course it has to be profitable in its own right and even in the post CL/EL/FAC era it's very unlikely that it would be.
The paper points out whilst that no one broadcaster can win the rights to all the matches, by bidding for them all, BT would push up costs for its rivals. It comments that this is the firmest statement to date that BT may acquire more than its current packages.
Full article (registration required) http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/47f3dbcc-246c-11e4-ae78-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3ASeLjfIk
Good, the more BT squeeze Sky the better, Sky make 1 billion pounds profit per year?, the more they have to shell out on rights, the less profit, unless they increase subs?, to cover the costs, lose subscribers to ever increasing rises.
The only happy people are EPL football players/teams and Scudamore.
Why should anybody believe that in the context of the astronomical Champions League bid?
As for the Premier League rights it's anyone's guess- I suspect the amount of games will increase slightly which would favour both broadcasters.