Options
'dance off' contradictions?
Bonnie Scotland
Posts: 2,211 Forum Member
✭✭✭
it might be in one of the other threads so apologies in advance if it is, but here's my point. this week Len and other judges said along the lines of 'based on this dance' or 'I have to base my decision on this dance' etc etc, implying it was all down to the dance off. indeed in other threads posters have been replying to folk saying 'the clue is in the phrase i.e. DANCE OFF!!'
however ... and here's the bit I might be recalling incorrectly ... in previous dance offs even in this series, have judges not said along the lines of 'basing it on the one who's progressed the most' or 'I need to base this on the one that overall shows more ability' etc etc, implying their decision wasn't purely down to the dance off.
have I got this right, or have the judges always said their decision is purely down to the dance off?
however ... and here's the bit I might be recalling incorrectly ... in previous dance offs even in this series, have judges not said along the lines of 'basing it on the one who's progressed the most' or 'I need to base this on the one that overall shows more ability' etc etc, implying their decision wasn't purely down to the dance off.
have I got this right, or have the judges always said their decision is purely down to the dance off?
0
Comments
Apart from Burno on Sunday and all the other times.
It should be based on the dance on the night, otherwise there is no point in going through with the dance off. They could just say Pixie is better overall and I'm going to vote for her, but the OP is right the judges, Len less so will change the rules to suit themselves.
I do think that there is massive hypocrisy though, only last week none of the judges voted to save Sunetra over Mark and also none gave any explanation for choosing to keep Mark. The general verdict on here certainly seemed to be that Sunetra was better in the DO, I prefer Mark overall but thought Sunetra was probably better in the DO so... go figure.
I'm fairly sure he did think Simon was the better dancer (in the dance off). There seems to be a fair amount of people (the majority?) in the forum who would agree with him.
Doesn't mean he was the better dancer. Depends how well he does those steps and what else he does. Whats there, could depend on the dance, music, or theme, and could be marked for acting, entertainment, energy, emotional content , difficulty and reflect the quality of the choregraphy. Len just has little imagination and has ended up marking an earlier version of the show.
Bruno neatly avoided the issue. He said he was voting for the better dancer if i recall. That form of words allows you to judge it on whats just happened, record, potential, or on who is clearly the better dancer overall. The most logical thing to do is to keep the best dancer.
They are stuck with the idea that the dance off matters - because they had to bring back the dance off - to stop the more ridiculous results of the public vote - and it has to have a purpose. The smart thing is to do a Bruno, fudge the criteria, and send the weaker dancer home. The alternative result could easily be justified on the marks given first time, and no one would argue that Pixie isn't the most capable dancer of those two.
The other judges are another matter.
I agree it's there to stop the best dancers going home because the public can't be trusted but they stuck to rigidly to the best in the dance off script this time which why it was the wrong decision. It's also very debatable if Simon's dad dancing was "better" as I can assure you it wasn't an as accomplished dance as Pixie's, had better music and was more crowd pleasing through ;-)
Nobody would have battered an eye-lid if Simon would have left having been in the D/O twice already. The show should have saved it's best dancer.
Nobody would have been surprised at all but they shouldn't change there rules to save the best dancer. The rules should be the rules and sorry but Simon danced better on the night so you can't assure me of anything,
There wasn't much between (although only one one dance contained 3 illegal lifts). In a way it was a brave decision to call it correctly because it has cost the show it's best dancer.
Bruno chose the dancer with overall better dance ability and said Pixie tonight stood out. It is quite a good fudge until Len spoils it with his spiel
There shouldn't be a dance off anyway when it gets to final six in my view but this would spoil the results show.
For me, Pixie would have done Simon's routine much better than he did, and for all the judges went on about Pixie's leg action being wrong, I actually thought it was a much better attempt than is usually seen. I don't think Simon would have achieved the same level of proficiency. So maybe some of the judges also think along those lines - that it's much easier to pull off a reasonable American Smooth than to make a proper attempt at dancing cha cha.
Yes, and he was right too.
Which is why it's so interesting that without the dance off there really wasn't that much in the way of ridiculous results. Yes, there were times when the public took to a less able contestant - Julian Clary for example (although he was arguably the original journey contestant and his showdance was fabulous) - but by and large the public and the judges were not too far apart. Come the first dance off series and there is Kate Garraway merrily escaping the bottom two for weeks on end which was nothing on the series after, when Strictly officially died and the ill feeling spilled over into the next year.
The really controversial eliminations come from the Dance Off Years, not the ones without.
You cannot say that Pixie would have danced Simons routine better as they have a different part to play, different steps and differing technique, being male and female.
I agree.
It feels like they make new rules up on the night according to who they want to save or not.
It's not just this show either, it applies to other talent shows such as The X Factor or BGT, and to an extent The Apprentice.
I think it just goes to show you to not take the judges on these shows seriously. They make things up on the night which suit them.
What I didn't like about this elimination was the way in which Len said that he will drive home with a clear conscience knowing he made the right decision.
Something felt really off about the way that he said it. Partly it was as if he was trying to justify the decision to himself and was already on the defensive knowing that he should feel guilty, and secondly because it came across as unnecessarily harsh.
Yes, I don't quite understand what it was about Series 9 that would mean the dance-off simply had to come back. Every single eliminee was in the bottom 2 on the leaderboard the week they went out. You don't get more of a processional axeing of the worst dancers, more or less in order, in any other series, other than Series 2 which...also didn't have the dance-off.
Problems with the dance-off
(1) Inconsistency: Len said his decision was based on Simon's performance in the dance-off because that is what it has to be based on. The previous week he chose Mark over Sunetra when it was clear that she performed better in the dance-off. This suggests that Len is being far from truthful when he made that claim.
(2) How is it possible to compare two different dances with different demands on the dancers? If each couple did the same dance at least it would be obvious (most of the time) which couple performed better,
(3) It's an entertainment show not a dance-competition. Therefore previous and likely future contributions should be taken into consideration.
(4) Strictly needs to be more honest with what it is and stop using the term 'dance competition'. Not only do the producers manipulate how celebs are perceived using VTs and assigning dances to frequently awful music they know full well that if celebs were marked according to the rules for each dance there would be a backlash from the viewing public who want light entertainment and not an in-depth discussion of dance technique. A small but vocal minority want the latter perhaps this group could be better catered for by having a version of ITT on one of the BBC channels that goes into detail without the need to Strictlyfy such commentary a la Craig or Karen.
Obviously every dance is new, so it must seem hard to begin with, but now it seems what ever dance someone's favourite is doing is the hardest.