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What A Load Of Rubbish!
Just checking and it seems that after DSO my area are only getting 14 TV channels and 4 HD channels. Surely they could have designed the MUX's a bit better to accomodate more/better channels for those not in areas that are going to receive the full 6 MUX's.
Thankfully I can receive a main transmitter at the moment so can get the full line-up but it is a bit rubbish all people are expected to get here if they can't get an aerial for the main transmitter is the BBC's, some of the ITV's and some of the Channel 4 family. What's more annoying is that some of those channels are +1's. :rolleyes:
I'm sure many would rather have FIVE USA, FIVER, FILM 4 or ITV 3 or 4 instead of ITV 2+1 and Channel 4+1... I know I would.
Thankfully I can receive a main transmitter at the moment so can get the full line-up but it is a bit rubbish all people are expected to get here if they can't get an aerial for the main transmitter is the BBC's, some of the ITV's and some of the Channel 4 family. What's more annoying is that some of those channels are +1's. :rolleyes:
I'm sure many would rather have FIVE USA, FIVER, FILM 4 or ITV 3 or 4 instead of ITV 2+1 and Channel 4+1... I know I would.
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Is it better than what is available via analogue at present?.
As I have stated in many previous post's the extra cost of three additional muxes on relays is relatively next to nothing.
The reason they have not been added to the relays is Arthingy the monopoly provider of the UK transmission infrastructure are asking far too much too provide the extra muxes so most broadcasters will not pay..
The reason they are asking a disgraceful amount of money is they are a monopoly and the net result is as always excessive charges and poor service.
There dedicated UK management are told I have been informed to add huge margins to there services by there puppet masters.
Arthingy I have been told have been keeping there engineers wages much lower than a free market would provide.
There engineers in many cases get paid less than a plumber or builders labourer.
There monopoly has exported hundreds of jobs in our industry as the UK manufacturing of transmitters and associated equipment has all but disappeared due to there procurement policy of importing equipment not because its better value but for strategic reasons.
A strategy inherited from the top management of N Tee L there predecessors.
This has done severe damage to the high tech manufacturing sector in our country.
This strategy is done purely to line the pockets of Wall street leverage investment bankers at the expense of the customer , dedicated and skilled engineers who work for Arthingy an last but not least the tax man as they squirrel away profits made so they pay no corporation tax in the UK.
What a load of Wall Street ---nkers.
Lobby your MP to get this disgraceful abuse of monopoly power ended so viewers can get a better and more economical service from terrestrial digital TV .
Arthingy's staff would then be able to operate in a free market and would receive the level of pay they deserve.
Everybody wins except the Wall street leverage investment bankers.
Some relays serve users in city centres, masked from a main transmitter by hills.
If the OP can get a main transmitter now, why not later? The power will increase after changeover.
I think the decision to only have three multiplexes on relay stations was taken before Arquiva existed and certainly well before they controlled all the terrestrial transmitters.
From what I remember reading at the time, the decision was a commercial one because Sky (and others?) did not want the extra expense as they preferred to just flog a few more satellite dishes (it was before Freesat launched).
I was just saying that there are plenty of people in the city who don't have anything apart from an aerial pointing at the local relay, so come DSO they're only going to be getting a handful of extra channels. It seems a waste that if they cost next to nothing to rebroadcast, why was the decision made to give those on relays a substandard service compared to those on main transmitters. Considering there are only 3 main transmitters serving the whole of NI , theres a sizeable proportion of the polulation that can't receive or don't know that they can receive a main transmitter and are not getting all that is available to them unless they get a satellite dish, but even then that doesn't give them the full line-up as there are channels on Freeview that are not on Freesat/FreeSatFromSky.
Get off your soap box and stop saying "Arthingy"
And, BTW, there = not here; their = belonging to them.
Very fair points made here. Possibly after DSO when power on Divis is juiced up considerably and to a lesser extent Limavady and Brougher Mountain (only slight increase AFAIK) some of those who at present cannot receive a DTT signal from these transmitters may be able to pick up the signal then. But your main point holds. Take ITV4 for example - its portfolio of sports is rapidly increasing e.g Snooker/Ashes cricket highlights/English and European Cup rugby highlights - and yet it is unavailable for those with the reduced 'Freeview Lite' service. This was a big mistake on part of those who decided to run the system as you describe it.
They don't cost "next to nothing" - there's only one person who keeps claiming that, and he's completely incorrect.
To upgrade a thousand odd extra sites, requiring three thousand odd extra transmitters is a LOT of money, as is running and maintainence. Arqiva gave a price to the broadcasters, who weren't prepared to pay for it - it's as simple as that.
What I do see as a problem, is that it's been kept a secret - they aren't really telling the people about it - they suddenly find out at DSO.
I "live out in the sticks where the air is fresh and sweet" and I can see the Main Transmitter @ Mendip, so that's a bit of a "win", "win" for me, then!
It's pretty much like that where I live. Because of the terrain here in the Cotswolds, where there are a lot of hills and Valleys, the vast majority of people receive their TV via repeaters and when DSO happend here it certainly came as a bit of a shock to many people when they found they weren't receiving what they were expecting.
As I say, fortunately I live right on top of the Cotswold Escarpment, so I get my signal direct from Mendip, some 60 miles away!
Doesn't stop him banging on about it though, does it.;)
I suspect he's ex-NTL as he seems to have some sort of axe to grind with Arqiva.
He also forgets that the decision was taken long before Arqiva existed, let alone before it was a monopoly.
Perhaps he should take his "next to nothing" proposal to the mux operators as I'm sure they would be all ears.
The classic politician's use of an adverb to allow wriggle room should it be needed.
In this case, the statement is undoubtedly correct if the cost is compared with, say, the national debt.
What's involved is basically just a mobile phone transmitter, but without the complication of a base station. Could very easily be added onto existing servicing arrangements, instead fo having a separate "for profit" arrangement.
Privatising broadcast engineering and technical services has been a disaster, eg BBC and Siemens ..........
There are a lot of dissatisfied viewers who get there reception from relays.
Rather than doing an ostrich is it not better if someone like me is stating that the cost of providing the three extra muxes is very small surely it would be best if it was looked at again?
I can prove that the extra cost is very low.
Content and quality aside, There was only room for so many channels with an analogue standard. Even with four, there was a struggle to get coverage everywhere.
When Five arrived, they had to free up the C30-C40 part of UHF Band. But even then they had called upon the old Sky Analogue system to provide a service.
So digital, for better or worse, has meant there are more channels available.
Currently there are four transmitters at each relay site (BBC 1, 2, ITV and Channel 4 channels).
After DSO why is there only three muxes transmitted when there are four transmitters ?
Could they not do four muxes (one for each of previous analogue channels) ?
Not so - I am afraid.
The frequency allocation for analogue and digital is NOT the same. The Geneva 2006 agreement is a brand new agreement, the power levels are reduced by on average 7dB and more UHF channels/muxes are in the plan for the main sites.
The analogue allocation has 4 1/2 channels UK-wide while
the digital plan has 8 internationally coordinated UHF channels/muxes.
When the main stations uses the UHF channels more intensively it will be more difficult to find channels for many relays.
The highest number of full Freeview sites - I have read about - was 200 sites.
Later the UK went for 6 DTT muxes, releasing the 800 MHz band for much needed mobile broadband and packeting the 600 MHz band (ch31-37) for more DTT.
If the 600 MHz band is indeed used for DTT is will likely operate in DVB-T2 SFN mode and a relay will not need its own frequency to operate.
Lars
Arqiva is merely a continuation of what was NTL Broadcast, which later absorbed National Grid Wireless's network.
The name may date back from 2005 however the company dates back decades.
I am afraid you are incorrect about the availability of frequencies.
DVB-T is very much more resistant to co channel
interference.
I have covered this topic on several other threads.
If the correct engineering is applied there is more than enough spectrum availible to carry at least six muxes on each relay.
Same situation as us.
Choice of distant main mast with all channels or closer digital relay with half the channels (freeviewLite).
Word of warning, being already on a main mast you may think you have nothiing to worry about - but this may not be the case. If there are digital transmitters nearby, relays or other main masts, your aerial may start to pick up the extra unwanted duplicates. These would likely to appear in the 800s in your channel list. If you are less lucky your equipment will put the distant duplicates in the main channel slots and the correct signals in the 800s, so when using the equipment you would be tuned to the wrong area signal and suffer poor reception. If you are even less lucky, some stray distant duplicate signals which operate on the same frequency as some as your channels may reach you and when strong enough could knock out those channels on the affected frequency.
Also post Switchover, all your freeview equipment/tv's need to be 8k ready, as the BBC and other PSB channels are using this after switchover. Any equipment or tv that doesnt do 8k wont be able to scan in these channels.
No it isn't.
Evidence is already emerging from post-DSO areas that you cannot pack the band as tightly as the frequency planners seem to want to.
Tell the people of Ilfracombe that DVB-T is more resistant to co-channel interference. Their local channels wiped out due to co-channel interference on DVB-T from over in Wales.
Also other reports in the past two years where two masts co-channel causing DVB-T loss.
Nowhere in the world is there a network of main and relay transmitters all transmitting six multiplexes on the UHF band. Plus in the UK we have the added issue with grouped aerials still in use.
DVB-T2 in SFNs... that's a different matter altogether.
Neither is the three mux issue on relays an issue unique to Arqiva. In Germany, the commercial broadcasters RTL and Pro7Sat1 have refused to expand their DTT network because of cost. Most rural areas only get the licence fee funded PSB channels, not a single commercial channel unlike UK. In France, lack of frequencies and cost mean that some rural viewers are being directed to TNTSAT. In Republic of Ireland, Saorsat will provide FTA Digital TV where it is not cost-effective to extend DTT coverage. In Spain, available channels vary depending where you live.
Anyway, here's a chance to prove your point: post a fantasy frequency plan showing ERPs for a current UK transmitter and all of its relays with six muxes on each without using the 600MHz band or the 800MHz band... Perhaps use Wenvoe or Sutton Coldfield as an example, but bear in mind international co-ordination arrangements?