I am not sure if the offset values are of any real significance to the receiver.
166kHz is a very small percentage variation (about 0.02 to 0.03%?) when put into the context of the basic carrier frequency of between about 470 and 750MHz.
In analog times this frequency error would lead to a (slightly distorted) picture. An DVB-T receiver synchonises on two pilot signals (on each side of the channel) which are two out of 6816 datacarriers. So the received really needs to find the expected pilot carriers frequency before proceeding locking onto the whole signal with the correct parameters.
Not really. Analogue receivers usually had fine tuning. All had AFC so no problem.
True, in that case the frequency error would be compensated and the TV picture remains the same. This raises the question about the DVB-T offset is: Is the receiver programmed to look at the exact offset frequencies or is this done by an AFC alike circuitry which is non critical to the exact frequency error?
About the channel 40: Which mux was on it from Germany? I guess the Belgium channel 40 was from Egem with the Teletenne mux on it. Unfortunately Teletenne has quitted it's DTT offer but someone in Belgium wrote that the muxes are still on air, scrambled too. He cannot decrypt it so the content is secret
Yes CH 40 was Teletenne from Egem(Norkring) in March 2012. I have heard it has since been encrypted. I received the German mux in June 2013 on CH 40 but have no idea from where.
That same evening muxes on 35 and 36 came through from Germany.
Yes CH 40 was Teletenne from Egem(Norkring) in March 2012. I have heard it has since been encrypted. I received the German mux in June 2013 on CH 40 but have no idea from where.
That same evening muxes on 35 and 36 came through from Germany.
That's a nice reverse investigation job. Did you get these channels on an H polarised aerial? Assuming this to be the case the chances are far more better for H polarised transmitters. Besides, the channels 35 and 36 are used in the Netherlands with V polarisation so big chance of co-channel problems. Second assumtion is the tropo affected approximately one direction. Following combination could have been the case:
Channel 35 from Aurich, 50 kW with ZDF mux, 430km; Channel 36 either from Hamburg 590 km (same direction) or Hannover 580 km; Channel 40 also from Hamburg or Hannover.
When looking at German transmitters with V polarisation in Nordrhein Westfalen the combination could have been channel 35 from Langenberg 425 km, also ZDF mux 50 kW. Channel 36 from Cologne/ Bonn 450 km with comm. mux. But channel 40 is not aired within reasonable distance! Was there any other clue the German channels came from the north? Perhaps some Dutch channels at the same time?
My aerial is H polarisation. I have received weak signals from the Netherlands on 35 and 36 but never strong enough to pull in due to the differing polarisation. I was surprised to receive from Egem due to Belgiums use of V polarisation.
As far as my CH 40 German reception goes I know one of the muxes was ZDF. However it is a abit of a blur now and the ZDF mux could have been either40 35 or 36. I am still dreaming of Danish reception one day.
Perhaps the FM eventually will arrive sometime in UK but the TV seems almost impossible to me. The distance to Norwich is around 730 km! South Denmark seems more likely at a distance of 585 km. The signal path to Denmark is all water. Don't know if that's an advantage or disadvantage. The public Danish transmissions are still in DVB-T, MPEG-4 with 50 kW H polarised. At my former location 20 meters above ground my nightly reception record for Tommerup channel 25 was 20 dB signal to noise above minimum required. Since living at ground level I got the Tommerup TX once in 7 years with a signal level that equals to what you can reach at pure line of sight (while Smilde was down). Sadly I didn't see anything, only channel scan result, due to the MPEG-4. So chances here are pretty rare:(. I hope they are better for all of you though because the co-channel problems with Germany are more distant;-).
Ch 24 might be a possibility from here but CH 26 would clash with West Runton sadly. Thanks for bringing it to people's attention, will keep an eye out when the next lift is on.
As far as tropo reception can be predicted here you can find co-channel locations in Europe: http://radio-tv-nederland.nl/dvbt/DVBT%20GE06%20plan%20UHF.pdf
Any green area is an assigned channel for that geographical location and they are close to eachother!. Luckily it also shows unused channels.. This can be checked on: http://www.ukwtv.de/cms/sender-tabelle/sender-tabelle-tv-dvb-t.html. Channel 24 is used in Den Haag and Rotterdam but there is a chance this does't affect UK DX reception.
Some other question about scanning the channels. What method do you all use to discover new DX channels? Just tune all channels one after another, measure the signal level and make a channel scan? Or use known channels to discover the direction and quality of the lift?
As far as tropo reception can be predicted here you can find co-channel locations in Europe: http://radio-tv-nederland.nl/dvbt/DVBT%20GE06%20plan%20UHF.pdf
Any green area is an assigned channel for that geographical location and they are close to eachother!. Luckily it also shows unused channels.. This can be checked on: http://www.ukwtv.de/cms/sender-tabelle/sender-tabelle-tv-dvb-t.html. Channel 24 is used in Den Haag and Rotterdam but there is a chance this does't affect UK DX reception.
Some other question about scanning the channels. What method do you all use to discover new DX channels? Just tune all channels one after another, measure the signal level and make a channel scan? Or use known channels to discover the direction and quality of the lift?
Very unscientific I know, but I usually check CH39 to see if the Netherlands is coming in. I also have a good feel weather wise for when the conditions may be good - just experience. If there is a "lift" on, I will see whether I have anything brewing on CH52 and CH50 (also Netherlands MUXes). If these are active I'll scan the channels one by one.
I don't think that I have known such a quiet DX season. Not a glimmer here in ages. I had high hopes for this summer, but it has been very disappointing.
Anyone else had any DX activity of late, is it just here that it is quiet?
I don't think that I have known such a quiet DX season. Not a glimmer here in ages. I had high hopes for this summer, but it has been very disappointing.
Jon
I was thinking the same, earlier this year I changed my antenna from Sudbury to Dover, in the hope of getting French Tv whenever there is a slight lift on.
I also put up a vertical pointed towards Holland. Since I did this I think theres only been one day when TV DX was good.
I prefered the old analogue days, it seemed that Holland and Belgium were available whenever it was hot and sunny or Foggy.
Same here... nothing for ages on UHF TV or DAB. Last summer was much better. Maybe the autumn will bring some good conditions .. it sometimes does with misty mornings.
Over the last few days, here in Ramsgate, I have seen some good strength in the TV signals from Dunkerque and Lille. I'm 66 miles from the Dunkerque transmitter and 83 miles from the Lille transmitter.
By the way, when it comes to DX-ing a small change in the bearing of your aerial can make a big difference. Not because it greatly alters the signal from the transmitter that you are aiming at, but because it makes a large difference to the off-beam co-channel signals from other transmitters.
I used to have my roof aerial at a compromise position for Lille and Dunkerque and have recently changed to point more directly at Dunkerque. The change of bearing has been only in the range of 5 to 10 degrees.
So far, I have been very pleased with the increased reliability of reception. Particularly with the reception of R2 (Gulli, D17 etc) on ch 52. Often in the past I would get high strength but poor quality (below digital cliff). Now I can get viewable quality even on days with low strength readings.
Over the last few days, here in Ramsgate, I have seen some good strength in the TV signals from Dunkerque and Lille. I'm 66 miles from the Dunkerque transmitter and 83 miles from the Lille transmitter.
By the way, when it comes to DX-ing a small change in the bearing of your aerial can make a big difference. Not because it greatly alters the signal from the transmitter that you are aiming at, but because it makes a large difference to the off-beam co-channel signals from other transmitters.
I used to have my roof aerial at a compromise position for Lille and Dunkerque and have recently changed to point more directly at Dunkerque. The change of bearing has been only in the range of 5 to 10 degrees.
So far, I have been very pleased with the increased reliability of reception. Particularly with the reception of R2 (Gulli, D17 etc) on ch 52. Often in the past I would get high strength but poor quality (below digital cliff). Now I can get viewable quality even on days with low strength readings.
Absolutely nada here, but we've been misted in for a few days now, hoping that when the mist lifts, normality will be restored.
Are you using an amp? I didn't amp the signal originally when I first put the aerial up because I was worried about over loading, but Iadded one in and haven't suffered any at all. So I'd recommend it, however this might not be a good idea if you are relying on the same aerial for domestic reception too - the dutch aerial I use is on a different polarity and it is an added bonus that it also pulls in West Runton (also vertically polorised) and Belmont (horizontal and 180 degress in the opposite direction).
Yes Jon, I use an amp - a Technika jobby which I bought from Tesco years ago for about £10. It is located indoors just where the cable from the roof aerial enters the flat.
However I am on the top floor so the cable run from the roof aerial to the amp is only 3 or 4 metres. I also used satellite cable both for the run down from the aerial and for the post amp continuation to the TV set.
Luckily, even though the aerial is at almost at 90 degrees to the Freeview signal from Dover (transmitter 17 miles away) there is enough pick-up from reflections from nearby buildings to use the same aerial for Freeview and my Continental viewing.
Occasinally when lift for Continental TV signals is very strong and there is co-chanelling interference with Dover, unplugging the roof aerial and connecting to the amp a set top aerial (mini-log periodic type bought from a charity shop for 50p) allows me to carry on watching Freeview.
I wouldn't be worried about overloading the TV by using an amp unless you were very close to a transmitter. I think the sets are designed to accept a wide range of RF signal levels.
"The US Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is pitching broadcasters to join in on its upcoming wireless spectrum auction with the promise of huge payouts from mobile giants if the TV industry give portions of its broadcast space".
This is part of a plan to clear 600Mhz for internet and mobile usage.
it seems UHF stations will have the option of moving to "High VHF" (band 3) and
"[I]High VHF Broadcasters Can Participate and Receive Auction Proceeds by
Moving to Lower VHF Channels[/I]" (USA channels 2-6)
As USA channels 2 - 4 are band 1 frequencies, could this be the start of a worldwide move back to TV on VHF? Who knows - Holme Moss back on channel 2 with a digital signal and Wimbledon wiped out by TVE Madrid?
Not sure what this has to do with this thread, but the chances of reopening Band 1, with its ten foot long aerial elements, seems to me to be to be somewhere between zero and none.
At the moment there is very little chance of VHF Band 1 being used for digital TV due to both the large aerials required and the higher levels of electrical interference which plague these lower VHF frequencies. Then there is the additional problem of strong co channel interference from distant transmitters that occur every summer via Sporadic E clouds
But in the future with improved and more robust digital modulation techniques plus using smaller more compact aerials with built in ATU's and low noise pre amps who knows?
DVB-T boxes don't have band 1 channels on them anyway. The specs are always ch5-12 and 21-69 except in the UK which are usually UHF only.
Smaller compact aerials with ATU and amps are never going to work as well as a proper full size aerial anyway.
Comments
About the channel 40: Which mux was on it from Germany? I guess the Belgium channel 40 was from Egem with the Teletenne mux on it. Unfortunately Teletenne has quitted it's DTT offer but someone in Belgium wrote that the muxes are still on air, scrambled too. He cannot decrypt it so the content is secret
That same evening muxes on 35 and 36 came through from Germany.
Channel 35 from Aurich, 50 kW with ZDF mux, 430km; Channel 36 either from Hamburg 590 km (same direction) or Hannover 580 km; Channel 40 also from Hamburg or Hannover.
When looking at German transmitters with V polarisation in Nordrhein Westfalen the combination could have been channel 35 from Langenberg 425 km, also ZDF mux 50 kW. Channel 36 from Cologne/ Bonn 450 km with comm. mux. But channel 40 is not aired within reasonable distance! Was there any other clue the German channels came from the north? Perhaps some Dutch channels at the same time?
As far as my CH 40 German reception goes I know one of the muxes was ZDF. However it is a abit of a blur now and the ZDF mux could have been either40 35 or 36. I am still dreaming of Danish reception one day.
http://www.ndr.de/der_ndr/technik/Rostock-Demmin-Guestrow-Marlow-Sender-Empfangsveraenderungen-Mecklenburg-Vorpommern,rostocksender102.html
ARD/NDR - 26 40 kW
ZDF - 24 20 kW
Is this a possible from the east coast?
also FM
NDR 1 Radio MV: - 91,0 MHz 50 dBW (100kW)
NDR 2: - 93,5 MHz 46 dBW (40kW)
NDR Kultur: - 88,2 MHz 52 dBW (158kW)
NDR Info: - 102,8 MHz 50 dBW (100kW)
N-JOY: - 88,9 MHz 37 dBW (5 kW)
158 kw seems rather a lot on 88.2.....
Ch 24 might be a possibility from here but CH 26 would clash with West Runton sadly. Thanks for bringing it to people's attention, will keep an eye out when the next lift is on.
Any green area is an assigned channel for that geographical location and they are close to eachother!. Luckily it also shows unused channels.. This can be checked on: http://www.ukwtv.de/cms/sender-tabelle/sender-tabelle-tv-dvb-t.html. Channel 24 is used in Den Haag and Rotterdam but there is a chance this does't affect UK DX reception.
Some other question about scanning the channels. What method do you all use to discover new DX channels? Just tune all channels one after another, measure the signal level and make a channel scan? Or use known channels to discover the direction and quality of the lift?
http://www.ndr.de/der_ndr/technik/frequenzen/dvbtfrequenzen101.html
However, it does not include the transmitter powers.
Very unscientific I know, but I usually check CH39 to see if the Netherlands is coming in. I also have a good feel weather wise for when the conditions may be good - just experience. If there is a "lift" on, I will see whether I have anything brewing on CH52 and CH50 (also Netherlands MUXes). If these are active I'll scan the channels one by one.
Anyone else had any DX activity of late, is it just here that it is quiet?
Regards
Jon
I was thinking the same, earlier this year I changed my antenna from Sudbury to Dover, in the hope of getting French Tv whenever there is a slight lift on.
I also put up a vertical pointed towards Holland. Since I did this I think theres only been one day when TV DX was good.
I prefered the old analogue days, it seemed that Holland and Belgium were available whenever it was hot and sunny or Foggy.
Plus Loeki the lion as well ;-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q3QXbPGaUo
By the way, when it comes to DX-ing a small change in the bearing of your aerial can make a big difference. Not because it greatly alters the signal from the transmitter that you are aiming at, but because it makes a large difference to the off-beam co-channel signals from other transmitters.
I used to have my roof aerial at a compromise position for Lille and Dunkerque and have recently changed to point more directly at Dunkerque. The change of bearing has been only in the range of 5 to 10 degrees.
So far, I have been very pleased with the increased reliability of reception. Particularly with the reception of R2 (Gulli, D17 etc) on ch 52. Often in the past I would get high strength but poor quality (below digital cliff). Now I can get viewable quality even on days with low strength readings.
Absolutely nada here, but we've been misted in for a few days now, hoping that when the mist lifts, normality will be restored.
Are you using an amp? I didn't amp the signal originally when I first put the aerial up because I was worried about over loading, but Iadded one in and haven't suffered any at all. So I'd recommend it, however this might not be a good idea if you are relying on the same aerial for domestic reception too - the dutch aerial I use is on a different polarity and it is an added bonus that it also pulls in West Runton (also vertically polorised) and Belmont (horizontal and 180 degress in the opposite direction).
However I am on the top floor so the cable run from the roof aerial to the amp is only 3 or 4 metres. I also used satellite cable both for the run down from the aerial and for the post amp continuation to the TV set.
Luckily, even though the aerial is at almost at 90 degrees to the Freeview signal from Dover (transmitter 17 miles away) there is enough pick-up from reflections from nearby buildings to use the same aerial for Freeview and my Continental viewing.
Occasinally when lift for Continental TV signals is very strong and there is co-chanelling interference with Dover, unplugging the roof aerial and connecting to the amp a set top aerial (mini-log periodic type bought from a charity shop for 50p) allows me to carry on watching Freeview.
I wouldn't be worried about overloading the TV by using an amp unless you were very close to a transmitter. I think the sets are designed to accept a wide range of RF signal levels.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/01/fcc_flashes_cash_at_broadcasters_ahead_of_wireless_auction/
"The US Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is pitching broadcasters to join in on its upcoming wireless spectrum auction with the promise of huge payouts from mobile giants if the TV industry give portions of its broadcast space".
This is part of a plan to clear 600Mhz for internet and mobile usage.
Reading the PDF (page 29)
http://wireless.fcc.gov/incentiveauctions/learn-program/docs/ia-opportunities-book.pdf
it seems UHF stations will have the option of moving to "High VHF" (band 3) and
"[I]High VHF Broadcasters Can Participate and Receive Auction Proceeds by
Moving to Lower VHF Channels[/I]" (USA channels 2-6)
As USA channels 2 - 4 are band 1 frequencies, could this be the start of a worldwide move back to TV on VHF? Who knows - Holme Moss back on channel 2 with a digital signal and Wimbledon wiped out by TVE Madrid?
Now that would be history repeating itself!
But in the future with improved and more robust digital modulation techniques plus using smaller more compact aerials with built in ATU's and low noise pre amps who knows?
Interestingly, Nederland 1, 2 and 3 are coming up in the EPG as NPO1, 2 and 3 (this is also reflected in the on screen graphics).
Nothing (as yet) from the other DUtch Muxes.
Hope some of you are getting something, or if not , I hope that this is the start of a good DXing year.
Best regards
Jon
Why is a ATU needed .
Am I missing something ?