Firstly thank you for the polite and sensible reply, unlike some other posters on this thread.
I will concede that Western Europe in general is attractive to migrants because of the stableness of society and the social welfare systems in place in most countries. (Although if they are "illegal" immigrants they do not have access to the welfare systems anyway) I don't believe the UK is any more of a "soft-touch" than any other European country. Its only the 6th most popular destination that migrants actually want to go too. Many do stay in Greece, in Italy, etc. Many more than want to come here.
The reason its easy for the right wing press to spin it that we are this soft touch benefits mecca is the build up of people at Calais. But the main reason for this build up is that in the rest of europe its pretty easy to cross the border. The people who wanted to be in france are in france. The people who wanted to be in germany are in germany. The (fewer number of) people who wanted to come to the UK are bottlenecked at the channel tunnel.
The people who want to come to the UK obviously have many different reasons. But the main ones is not the "soft touch" benefits system, its the fact that many of them already know English and that they have friends or family here already. If you look at the reasons the migrants give for wanted to come here its hardly ever the welfare state.
I'm not saying we should let them in of course. Anyone who wants to come here should apply via the proper channels, not clinging onto the back of a lorry.
People certainly cant claim welfare benefits. But they do get free health, education, shelter and legal aid, which are all benefits, costing us Billion's.
You have spoke alot about what these illegal immigrants want. The ones who want to go to france, german, uk etc will go.
Well its not really about what they want is, these are our countries, its about what we want and to be quite blunt we dont need or want hundred's and thousand's of uneducated men flooding the borders of western europe.
Not many immigrants stay in greece at all, when I was in athens I saw a few africans selling fake designer handbags, some asians selling roses and other bits and bobs. But generally they are made to leave, they are given nothing. Plus athens has no mosques, there is a ban on any being built, they are wise and vowed never again after they kicked out the ottomans.
Western europe is easy for them, we give them too much. As you said they come because they have links here. Because we dont take this problem seriously the conveyor belt of illegal immigrants will keep on coming.
Change the location to Calais and we now have reality imitating the movie combine it with the book The Camp of the Saints https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Camp_of_the_Saints and we have a situation is isn't going to go away till govs start getting getting ruthless in removing them back to where they came from.
Western europe is easy for them, we give them too much. As you said they come because they have links here. Because we dont take this problem seriously the conveyor belt of illegal immigrants will keep on coming.
It's not a matter of "giving them too much". People always have, and always will, try to move from poor countries to rich ones. The problem is being taken seriously, but it's not an easy one to solve.
Illegal immigrants work in the black economy for low wages. They don't get benefits and if they're caught they can be deported. I'm not sure how this amounts to an "easy ride"?
Agree they do work in the black economy.
Disagree about benefits, they do get benefits in terms of health, education, legal aid etc which cost us billions.
They can be deported but never are. Caught and released is about all that happens. Cat and mouse.
I saw one youtube video of 2 immigration officers trying to detain 2 criminal illegal immigrants, as they were detaining them a whole mob of immigrants (not sure if legal or illegal), came out on the street bullying and intimidating the little immigration woman and her colleague. The immigration officers ended up running away to their van without the criminals. The mob of charming educated african men started chanting 'pussies pussies pussies' as the immigration officers fled away.
What a lovely progressive society we have become.
If this isnt a sign of laughing stock soft touch britain i dont know what is.
The problem is being taken seriously, but it's not an easy one to solve.
I dont see how its being taken seriously. Our royal navy should be escorting boats back to africa. Instead our royal navy is acting as a free ferry service for illegal immigrants.
It only seems hard for western europe to solve, not other countries. Its difficult for Western europe to tackle the immigration problem because it is crippled with left wing politics, bureaucracy an political correctness which means deporting illegal immigrants is a long, difficult and expensive process compared to other countries who just say no and mean it.
I dont see how its being taken seriously. Our royal navy should be escorting boats back to africa. Instead our royal navy is acting as a free ferry service for illegal immigrants.
It only seems hard for western europe to solve, not other countries. Its difficult for Western europe to tackle the immigration problem because it is crippled with left wing politics, bureaucracy an political correctness which means deporting illegal immigrants is a long, difficult and expensive process compared to other countries who just say no and mean it.
What you mean is that Western Europe treats immigrants more humanely than some other parts of the world do. That's actually something we should be proud of.
In 2013 45000 people were removed from the UK.
In 2014 40000 people were removed from the UK.
Don't let the facts get in the way of your vitriol.
Is that all? Problem worse than i thought then. More come in then go out. I thought we was suppose to be taking this seriously. Only another million or so to deport then.
What you mean is that Western Europe treats immigrants more humanely than some other parts of the world do. That's actually something we should be proud of.
Australia is treating their illegal immigrants humanely too .... Just doing it in a more effective way than we are.
What you mean is that Western Europe treats immigrants more humanely than some other parts of the world do. That's actually something we should be proud of.
And where has this bleeding heart super liberal approach got western europe...
Constant civil unrest, jews fleeing europe once again, islamic terrorist attacks, immigrant ghettos, high crime, liberal swedens open door to immigrants has now seen them become the rape capital of europe. Belgium and hollnad natives will be a minority in next generation. I could go on and on..
Some might say its something to be proud of others would call it lunacy.
What you mean is that Western Europe treats immigrants more humanely than some other parts of the world do. That's actually something we should be proud of.
And where has this bleeding heart super liberal approach got western europe...
Constant civil unrest, jews fleeing europe once again, islamic terrorist attacks, immigrant ghettos, high crime, liberal swedens open door to immigrants has now seen them become the rape capital of europe. Belgium and hollnad natives will be a minority in next generation. I could go on and on..
Some might say its something to be proud of others would call it lunacy.
You're exaggerating rather (we don't have "constant civil unrest" here for a start), but in any case I was referring specifically to the current Med immigrant problem.
And where has this bleeding heart super liberal approach got western europe...
Constant civil unrest, jews fleeing europe once again, islamic terrorist attacks, immigrant ghettos, high crime, liberal swedens open door to immigrants has now seen them become the rape capital of europe. Belgium and hollnad natives will be a minority in next generation. I could go on and on..
Some might say its something to be proud of others would call it lunacy.
>>
As a prominent UK politician speaking on everlasting mass immigration into the uk forecast "The UK seems set upon committing National Suicide'.
Comments
People certainly cant claim welfare benefits. But they do get free health, education, shelter and legal aid, which are all benefits, costing us Billion's.
You have spoke alot about what these illegal immigrants want. The ones who want to go to france, german, uk etc will go.
Well its not really about what they want is, these are our countries, its about what we want and to be quite blunt we dont need or want hundred's and thousand's of uneducated men flooding the borders of western europe.
Not many immigrants stay in greece at all, when I was in athens I saw a few africans selling fake designer handbags, some asians selling roses and other bits and bobs. But generally they are made to leave, they are given nothing. Plus athens has no mosques, there is a ban on any being built, they are wise and vowed never again after they kicked out the ottomans.
Western europe is easy for them, we give them too much. As you said they come because they have links here. Because we dont take this problem seriously the conveyor belt of illegal immigrants will keep on coming.
Change the location to Calais and we now have reality imitating the movie combine it with the book The Camp of the Saints https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Camp_of_the_Saints and we have a situation is isn't going to go away till govs start getting getting ruthless in removing them back to where they came from.
I hate to be the one who makes us all feel old, but 1990 was 25 years ago...
I see you deliberately missed out the part where I mentioned our own citizens, saying fair enough.
Was that to stir up an argument; proving how clever you are or just an oversight?
Corrected. ;-)
If 'economic concerns' are the only consideration, then why should it matter whether they are our citizens or not?
If it does matter, then, by definition, economic concerns aren't your only consideration.
Depressing thing is, I saw the "15" and at first thought "yeah, that sounds about right... no, wait a minute... oh shit".
It's not a matter of "giving them too much". People always have, and always will, try to move from poor countries to rich ones. The problem is being taken seriously, but it's not an easy one to solve.
Dodging the question. I can only assume you're just trying to be clever then.
For people who are not our citizens, economics should be the only consideration. Simple enough for you?
Ah, so you're one of those faux-libertarians then. Got it.
Agree they do work in the black economy.
Disagree about benefits, they do get benefits in terms of health, education, legal aid etc which cost us billions.
They can be deported but never are. Caught and released is about all that happens. Cat and mouse.
I saw one youtube video of 2 immigration officers trying to detain 2 criminal illegal immigrants, as they were detaining them a whole mob of immigrants (not sure if legal or illegal), came out on the street bullying and intimidating the little immigration woman and her colleague. The immigration officers ended up running away to their van without the criminals. The mob of charming educated african men started chanting 'pussies pussies pussies' as the immigration officers fled away.
What a lovely progressive society we have become.
If this isnt a sign of laughing stock soft touch britain i dont know what is.
In 2013 45000 people were removed from the UK.
In 2014 40000 people were removed from the UK.
Don't let the facts get in the way of your vitriol.
I dont see how its being taken seriously. Our royal navy should be escorting boats back to africa. Instead our royal navy is acting as a free ferry service for illegal immigrants.
It only seems hard for western europe to solve, not other countries. Its difficult for Western europe to tackle the immigration problem because it is crippled with left wing politics, bureaucracy an political correctness which means deporting illegal immigrants is a long, difficult and expensive process compared to other countries who just say no and mean it.
What you mean is that Western Europe treats immigrants more humanely than some other parts of the world do. That's actually something we should be proud of.
Is that all? Problem worse than i thought then. More come in then go out. I thought we was suppose to be taking this seriously. Only another million or so to deport then.
Australia is treating their illegal immigrants humanely too .... Just doing it in a more effective way than we are.
There are differing opinions about that.
And where has this bleeding heart super liberal approach got western europe...
Constant civil unrest, jews fleeing europe once again, islamic terrorist attacks, immigrant ghettos, high crime, liberal swedens open door to immigrants has now seen them become the rape capital of europe. Belgium and hollnad natives will be a minority in next generation. I could go on and on..
Some might say its something to be proud of others would call it lunacy.
facilis descensus Averno
Bl-dy Romans coming over here not bothering to speak English.
Alright then, in plain ol English. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
You're exaggerating rather (we don't have "constant civil unrest" here for a start), but in any case I was referring specifically to the current Med immigrant problem.
They seem to know what they are doing and they have a MUCH more vast area.
We are a laughing stock of the world at the minute. Even more with France.
>>
As a prominent UK politician speaking on everlasting mass immigration into the uk forecast "The UK seems set upon committing National Suicide'.
No, we are really not. That's an empty phrase that just says 'I don't like the situation'.