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Irish foundation helps Mums flee Social Services
blueblade
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An 80 year old man called Brian Rothery has founded what is called the Sharon Grace foundation, which is essentially a set up which helps mainly Mums from the UK, escape the clutches of Social Services and travel to Ireland, where their kids will not be forcibly taken from them for reasons deemed fit by SS, and put up for adoption.
Brian was interviewed on the Today Programme this morning, and he outlined the work of the foundation. He said that the UK was the only country in Europe where children are forcibly adopted, and that the UK has got it wrong in this regard. In Ireland an attempt is always made to keep families together.
Today Programme - from about 47 minutes onwards
This has also been expanded upon in "Inside Out South East", which is available on i player.
The Sharon Grace project
An interesting idea in my opinion. Not one which will meet with universal approval, but I can see his point.
Brian was interviewed on the Today Programme this morning, and he outlined the work of the foundation. He said that the UK was the only country in Europe where children are forcibly adopted, and that the UK has got it wrong in this regard. In Ireland an attempt is always made to keep families together.
Today Programme - from about 47 minutes onwards
This has also been expanded upon in "Inside Out South East", which is available on i player.
The Sharon Grace project
The reasons for the project
The original reason was the revelation of the draconian methods being used by Social Services to remove chidden from their parents and the sometimes arbitrary, and even capricious, reasons given for this drastic action. Women, for example, being punished for their choice of violent men, even when they wee trying to escape from them. Other women accused of ‘emotional abuse’ with no scientific evidence.
In addition to the draconian methods, there was the unaccountable powers of Social Services, backed up by the police and supported by secret district or family courts where no witnesses outside of the influence of Social Services and no journalists were allowed.
The final straw, as it were, was the discovery of profiteering and conflict of interest within the 'child protection' apparatus of the state, involving fostering and so-called 'expert witnesses'. That story is told here.
The aims of the project
At present the individuals involved in the project are virtually overwhelmed by demands from parents in trouble - fire-fighting as it were. Many of the families are beyond help with children already irrevocably removed. The family court system, operating through the ordinary courts, is very adversarial and one-sided with powerful Social Services arguing cases in front of judges against mainly helpless and inarticulate parents, usually lone mothers who are already distraught. One aim of the project is to replace this system with one that is more compassionate and less extreme.
We see the main mechanisms for this as first the Report to the Board of the Courts Service by Dr. Carol Coulter.
An interesting idea in my opinion. Not one which will meet with universal approval, but I can see his point.
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The Catholic Church is another discussion. A good one, but not really relevant to this, which is mainly about UK Social Services being challenged.
We like to think we are a caring society towards disenfranchised women. But in all honesty we are not as understanding as we like to think we are.
It's ****ing disgusting that children can be removed from their Mother because she has been beaten and broken by her partner.
To me one of the main points here is that Social Services have powers which massively exceed their competence and intellect.
I completely agree blueblades.
I don't know how this can be changed, and that really ****s me off.
Yes, and that was terribly wrong on every level.
However, that was then. And this is now.
I was born illegitimate in 1968 btw. I do know how the past was.
We need to look at now.
Do you know what else happened in Ireland in the past? Over a million people starved to death while Ireland's food supply was exported to England.
Maybe we should just leave history in the past and talk about the problems in the present. I remember watching a documentary on this subject, it seems the state can employ all kinds of experts to present convincing sounding, but dodgy, evidence against the parents. In most cases the parents have no redress because they aren't able to hire their own experts to challenge the evidence.
I just don't believe The Daily Mail and others who think there is some great scandal of children being taken from good parents.
For a child to be removed from the parents the SS has to convince a court both parents are completely unfit. This is very hard to do as long as at least one of the parents is vaguely mentally competent.
I used to know a lady who had a child taken away. To this day she maintains she was somehow hard done by, but without going into details it was most certainly her fault.
People in that situation can't see what they do wrong, too deluded.
Just a technical point, why would these people be any safer in Ireland?
Are we not able to have them extradited for child 'abduction' a la Aysha Kings parents?
I agree in as much the SSs have draconian powers.
When it comes to intellect, some SSs personnel are pretty damn devious in their methods, plenty of intellect in use, ( or should that be abuse ), compared to some of the families they deal with.
That's quite a slur but typical of the kind of blackening of parents SSs get up to.
And for the record, the King's didn't abduct their child.
And how many of these cases have happened?
I'll happily admit the odd mistake probably does exist. Nothing is perfect.
I would have thought the number of children saved from neglect would massively outweigh the number with rare medical conditions which get taken away following a major and unlikely mistake.
Problem is the newspapers or the TV show one or two cases and people think that's representative of EVERYBODY, EVERYWHERE.
I've sat there and heard somebody bad-mouth social services for this even though it was their own frigging fault their child was taken away. This woman was getting sympathy from other people even though it was her own fault. Ridiculous.
99 times out of 100, at least, their decision is going to be pretty sound because they have to go to court for it.
Yes, I know they are completely innocent that's why I used inverted commas.
I brought that up as an example of the legal point though. Can we not extradite people from Ireland?
You can if they're wanted for a crime, but then forcible adoption is a crime in Ireland so an extradition hearing could be interesting.
It's odd, ( or maybe a knee jerk reaction albeit a good one ), when you think what the Church and Sisters got up to and the horrors they all committed.
I mean chucking dead kids in to a sewer tank,---Jesus!
I'm sure this is as equally well intentioned, but unfortunately, sometimes families don't seem to be meant to be together.. that's just life
I would have thought child neglect (or cruelty) would trump that, personally - which is also illegal in Ireland, but I'm sure the European Court could decide.
I don't know why people think this is so acceptable.
Do you guys honestly think every time Social Services pull a child away from their parents it's not done with a heavy heart and a good reason?
No dead kids were chucked into a sewer tank, Jesus!
If you're trying to extradite them from Ireland it would be an Irish court which would decide. And if there's evidence of child neglect or cruelty, then it can be produced in an Irish court too.
That's all well and good but surely that's just going to waste heaps of time in the Irish courts though.
The whole point is if they've fled from an order then a court here has already found them to be somehow incapable, which they don't do lightly.
People must look after their kids or absolutely Social Services have the right to take them away to find them better homes.
I'm sure the Irish courts will cope, I hardly think there will be a deluge of Brits fleeing here from social services, as you said yourself they only take children as a last resort.
What happens if the Irish courts rule in favour of the parents on the grounds that 'forced adoption' is illegal in Ireland though as you say?
Just wait until the next 'Baby P' somehow comes about because of this madness and people will be up in arms, which will of course lead to the type of chronic overreaction which may very well lead to the situation you are actually trying to avoid.
People are idiots and flit from one extreme to the other