I agree with all this, but I don't know how many times I have said now that the decision to stay in hotels, to travel at peak times was dictated by my manager! I had no say in this. We do not have access to company cash or credit cards.
My expenses totalled £190: £150 on the return train journey for both me and my manager, £20 on meals and £20 is actually from another job. I've not been paid any of these expenses. All the payments and expenses claimed were made with the manager's approval.
Sorry, I'm not having a go at you ih8mondays, it's just that I was seeking some advice on what I can do in this situation and this has turned into an inquest lol! I fully understand that people want more background to the expenses incurred, but I just feel that I am being penalised for a business trip I knew never really had to become as expensive as it did. But that, as far as I'm concerned, is the fault of my manager... I am an honest person and wouldn't try to fleece the company with unnecessary expenses.
I think seeking the expenses regulations is the next step, but my fear is with the accounts woman. If I raise anything about it, without my manager dealing with her directly, I suspect she will scream, shout, swear at and humiliate me in front of everyone! She's made people cry before...
Apologies if I've not been entirely clear over everything here, but my intention was not to disclose as much detail, but find out whether people had been in a similar situation and what they had done about it...
It seems pretty clear that you have done nothing wrong and would take the matter further if they refuse to honor it.
Your manager on the other hand has messed up badly. The total claim for the two of you is excessive and at the very least careless with company money. Most companies with correct expense management would give them hell for this, but not you.
Sadly you seem to be suffering for their failings atm.
It seems pretty clear that you have done nothing wrong and would take the matter further if they refuse to honor it.
Your manager on the other hand has messed up badly. The total claim for the two of you is excessive and at the very least careless with company money. Most companies with correct expense management would give them hell for this, but not you.
Sadly you seem to be suffering for their failings atm.
It all depends on each company's procedure...
In my company, what my direct manager says has absolutely no relevance (for financial issues).
Anything above a stapler in terms of cost that requires buying must be authorised by our financial director, even if it's just a quick phone call to confirm.
Same here, while I require my managers to have common sense, if they were to go 10-15% over on budget/expenses I wouldn't worry, as long as they can show/prove the expense. But to go £450 pound over on a budgeted £200 I would expect a phone call to confirm the new expense and in the very least, they come to me straight after and explain the expense, not just put it in and hope for the best.
Same here, while I require my managers to have common sense, if they were to go 10-15% over on budget/expenses I wouldn't worry, as long as they can show/prove the expense. But to go £450 pound over on a budgeted £200 I would expect a phone call to confirm the new expense and in the very least, they come to me straight after and explain the expense, not just put it in and hope for the best.
I agree with you Philip Wales. One thing I should say is that I wasn't aware of the £200 budget until the expenses were claimed. Yes, this is a fault on my part for not knowing, but in my defence I'd assumed that there wouldn't be an issue given that my manager had arranged this.
It's a very difficult situation and left in limbo atm, because no-one seems to be doing anything about it and the accounts woman is probably keen for it to stay that way!
Your manager is responsible for resolving this as you were following her direct management instructions - and if she can't you should go over her head to her manager (or the MD if there is nobody else more senior).
Explain that in good faith you have used your own money to pay for company expenses on her express instructions and as such you expect to be reimbursed since if there has been any breach of the expenses policy you weren't aware that was the case.
In future make sure you know that you are going to be reimbursed before you put your hands in your pocket!
I think you might even work for one of my clients as this situation is not unusual !!
Small companies, wife in charge of accounts (or worse still HR), no proper procedures and processes and owners reluctant to pay anything for anything particularly in this economic climate. Paying anything above salary is like taking bread from their childrens' mouths.
Whoever put the budget forward carries the can here, it should have been properly costed and a clear rationale given for the wide discrepancy in cost.
I like a written audit trail, try emailing, e.g. Dear accounts person please will you confirm that my expenses which were accrued on approved company business (list) will be reimbursed to me by (date). Kind regards, etc
Don't use your personal credit card for business purposes again. There is nothing in your contract to say you should and this situation will never arise again. This happened to me once, next time 'put it on your personal c/card' was met with a flat 'no' from me. End of.
The issue is working for a small company, this woman basically is the finance department. My line manager has said she's made issues of expenses before and there have been occasions when she hasn't paid expenses and not notified staff...
I've never worked for a company like this tbh! Hopefully it'll all be resolved, but I'll post to let you all know...
why WOULD YOU pay, if you were accompanying your manager? I would be having a go at your manager to get it sorted, as well, to be honest.
I have read the whole thing now - and it seems you are only out £200, and your manager out £450 at present.
I think your manager (maybe with ou without you) needs to sort this with the MD, personally.
If it were me in your place I'd not be rushing off on company business anywhere... "i'd love to but my amex is maxed out due to the last trip i didn't pay off" (even if it isn't)
The lesson learned is - if things change submit a new trip budget plan before you re-book, if that's not approved, cancel the trip.
I've done a lot of company travelling over my time and we did have one accountant who thought my trips were a "jolly holiday" and resented actioning my expenses, but one time I kinda snapped and pointed out they'd been approved by my manager and the site MD and it wasnt a matter for debate with me. If he thought I was travelling too much he ought to bring it up with the MD to reduce the number of customer appointments I had which was fine with me as I hadn't been home three weekends in a row.
Anyway, I really do hope you get your cash back soon.
I would lay the blame at your managers feet, they are your immediate boss and should of arranged proper expenses for the trip they planned. As a Director of a company I would certainly reimburse you as it appears this is none of your fault. I would then take the manager to task as to why this expense for 1 occurred and 2 why the hell they took/expected a more junior member of staff to stump up the money for it.
I think seeking the expenses regulations is the next step, but my fear is with the accounts woman. If I raise anything about it, without my manager dealing with her directly, I suspect she will scream, shout, swear at and humiliate me in front of everyone! She's made people cry before...
Separate issue. Yes you should be reimbursed as you ran up a bill authorised [apparently] by your manager.
More worrying is this bit though - that the HR woman will attempt to bully and belittle you for making a legitimate expense claim. I can't imagine bursting into tears myself but if ours tried that trick me on me I'd either walk away and ask him to talk me later in private or just tell him to come back and discuss it when he's learnt to grow up. Either way, if you do have a reasonable expectation that HR will turn it into a shouting match, have someone senior in with you when you try to discuss it. Bullying is no longer tolerated in the workplace and using it as an excuse not to pay or not to give clear reasons for non-payment of what appear to be legitimate expense claims is - in the parlance of today - bang out of order.
I never posted an update on this. Got my expenses paid in the end. My manager has since left and at that time she hadn't been paid her expenses. She's probably been paid since, but worked out okay in the end either way!
Comments
So your expenses were less than £200 ? Not £650
Oh dear, this has indeed become very confused. My expenses are £200, my manager's expenses are around £450, so in total £650...
We've both been denied expenses so far. I'm sorry I've not made this entirely clear...
Your manager on the other hand has messed up badly. The total claim for the two of you is excessive and at the very least careless with company money. Most companies with correct expense management would give them hell for this, but not you.
Sadly you seem to be suffering for their failings atm.
It all depends on each company's procedure...
In my company, what my direct manager says has absolutely no relevance (for financial issues).
Anything above a stapler in terms of cost that requires buying must be authorised by our financial director, even if it's just a quick phone call to confirm.
Exactly not hard is it :rolleyes:
It's a very difficult situation and left in limbo atm, because no-one seems to be doing anything about it and the accounts woman is probably keen for it to stay that way!
If you get nowhere with that, maybe it is time to get advice from ACAS (if they can help) or threaten legal action / small claims court?
Explain that in good faith you have used your own money to pay for company expenses on her express instructions and as such you expect to be reimbursed since if there has been any breach of the expenses policy you weren't aware that was the case.
In future make sure you know that you are going to be reimbursed before you put your hands in your pocket!
Small companies, wife in charge of accounts (or worse still HR), no proper procedures and processes and owners reluctant to pay anything for anything particularly in this economic climate. Paying anything above salary is like taking bread from their childrens' mouths.
Whoever put the budget forward carries the can here, it should have been properly costed and a clear rationale given for the wide discrepancy in cost.
I like a written audit trail, try emailing, e.g. Dear accounts person please will you confirm that my expenses which were accrued on approved company business (list) will be reimbursed to me by (date). Kind regards, etc
Don't use your personal credit card for business purposes again. There is nothing in your contract to say you should and this situation will never arise again. This happened to me once, next time 'put it on your personal c/card' was met with a flat 'no' from me. End of.
why WOULD YOU pay, if you were accompanying your manager? I would be having a go at your manager to get it sorted, as well, to be honest.
I have read the whole thing now - and it seems you are only out £200, and your manager out £450 at present.
I think your manager (maybe with ou without you) needs to sort this with the MD, personally.
The lesson learned is - if things change submit a new trip budget plan before you re-book, if that's not approved, cancel the trip.
I've done a lot of company travelling over my time and we did have one accountant who thought my trips were a "jolly holiday" and resented actioning my expenses, but one time I kinda snapped and pointed out they'd been approved by my manager and the site MD and it wasnt a matter for debate with me. If he thought I was travelling too much he ought to bring it up with the MD to reduce the number of customer appointments I had which was fine with me as I hadn't been home three weekends in a row.
Anyway, I really do hope you get your cash back soon.
More worrying is this bit though - that the HR woman will attempt to bully and belittle you for making a legitimate expense claim. I can't imagine bursting into tears myself but if ours tried that trick me on me I'd either walk away and ask him to talk me later in private or just tell him to come back and discuss it when he's learnt to grow up. Either way, if you do have a reasonable expectation that HR will turn it into a shouting match, have someone senior in with you when you try to discuss it. Bullying is no longer tolerated in the workplace and using it as an excuse not to pay or not to give clear reasons for non-payment of what appear to be legitimate expense claims is - in the parlance of today - bang out of order.
Have you been asked on any more trips since then? Hope you made sure your paperwork was in order!