Great jxp has confirmed an upgraded 9200T is working with the meta data flag/now & next.
If would be good to confirm if users of other makes of PVR claiming to implement "Accurate Recording" ended up with the same recording of Eastenders tonight.
Once we have confirmed that if give the any Freeview Playback Certified machine the right data and it will harassing the BBC to get their house in order and stop blaming machine manufactures/users.
Monday would be a good day for a test - Coro St x2 and EastEnders. The first Coro won't come on until 7.35 and run till 8.01, EastEnders will start at any time between 8.00 and 8.02, going off by 8.28, whilst Coro2 will come on at 8.29.
If it can cope with that lot, it would be impressive..!
Monday would be a good day for a test - Coro St x2 and EastEnders. The first Coro won't come on until 7.35 and run till 8.01, EastEnders will start at any time between 8.00 and 8.02, going off by 8.28, whilst Coro2 will come on at 8.29.
If it can cope with that lot, it would be impressive..!
Trouble is nobody is sure if ITV are actually using the accurate recording data or not yet. Im sure I read somewhere that they are still testing it.
I have recorded again using autotracking and had total success on BBC2.
It was from 21:00 to 22:00
It recorded 21:00 to 22:02 (ended when the next program started).
What I have noticed is the now and next information is wrong, it runs on the scheduled time slot, autotracking has nothing to do with now and next, it also has nothing to do with the program description when you press the i button during a recording.
It also appears if the program is starting late, the humax still starts recording at the scheduled time (when the previous program is still on = running late).
I have not recorded a program that started early yet.
Monday would be a good day for a test - Coro St x2 and EastEnders. The first Coro won't come on until 7.35 and run till 8.01, EastEnders will start at any time between 8.00 and 8.02, going off by 8.28, whilst Coro2 will come on at 8.29.
If it can cope with that lot, it would be impressive..!
Right RobbieSykes123 your on!!!! Will set up all these for monday using Accurate recording and then report back!!
For what its worth I haven't had one recording set with AR miss the start or the finish. so this will be a good challenge.
GG:) All three now set for monday using Accurate Recording will report back at 09.00 hours or so Monday night!!!!
BBC seems to work fine with AR, but will not know for sure until try recording something live that runs late, either tennis or the Diana concert as if its anything like live8 then it will overrun.
ITV you miss the begging so maybe they are not sending out the signal.
I do have some tests set for ITV this morning and will report back when they are finished.
What I have noticed is the now and next information is wrong, it runs on the scheduled time slot, autotracking has nothing to do with now and next, it also has nothing to do with the program description when you press the i button during a recording.
It depends what you are using to view Now and Next data. Some boxes may not use the EIT p/f but create Now and Next from the EPG guide, or don't use the Freeview EIT p/f but an alternative.
I've seen everytime the Humax start recording the moment the Now/Next data changes.
Everything we have read states Accurate Recording will use the EIT p/f data if it is using the Freeview EPG data, and that is what the Humax is using.
The Humax is working fine with the accurate recording and all the oddities and problems are simply down to the fact the broadcasters are not tying in Now and Next to the exact start of the program. Sometimes by coincidence it seems to work perfectly and other times it doesn't but a lot of this is just down to chance. Regional opt outs will also see people having a different experience even with the same program set.
I had my first "accurate" recording today.
Set the Hummy (upgraded 9200T) to record Eastenders tonight at 8:00 - 8:30.
It recorded 8:00 - 8:31:30. This included part of a trailer at the start and end but got all of the programme (which did run after 8:30)
.
Got the same here when I tested out recording Eastenders, 20:00-20:31
Deffinately hit and miss.
Set to record the Doctor Who cartoon at 10:30 on BBC2.
Prog started at 10:29 and didnt start recording until 10:30
It seems that it may record to the end of a prog when running over time from what others have said, but the AR does not activate when start times are earlier than the EPG start time. Which im sure PhilipL may of mentioned before.
It over runs simply because AR only has a start event, no stop event, this means you get natural padding because the recording carries on until it sees the start event of the next program and then knows the current one is over, or should be.
For example:
7:30 Program start <-- Program becomes Now event, PVR starts recording
.
.
.
.
.
7:58 Program finishes
.
<plug for other BBC programs>
.
8:00 Next program starts - and Now is replaced by this program, triggers PVR to stop.
I think people are expecting to work as:
7:30 Program start <-- PVR gets signal to record
.
.
.
.
.
7:58 Program finishes <-- PVR gets signal to stop, program recorded exactly from beginning to end.
.
<plug for other BBC programs>
.
8:00 Following program starts - new signal sent to start recording
But it doesn't work like this it works as per the first example so there is a certain amount of natural padding. Remember a program in a 30 minute slot may only be 26 minutes or so in length but you will still get a 30 minute recording but it seems down to chance if the 26 minute program happens to all reside in that 30 minute recording slot.
In other words, at the moment AR is useless and acts in the same manner as the on time setting from previous firmware as its very rare that the EPG will get changed to co-inside with the actual running times.
I wonder why it wasnt made to work by tracking the programme itself rather than the EPG info or do we need to wait for the remaining stages to be completed before it all works correctly?
Why can't they just fix the faulty software ......... sigh
Is it really that unreasonable to expect it to work correctly?
Humax have pizz poor ideas about software ......... they are completely incompetent with testing it and then bury their heads in the sand - was going to say ars* .......
Why can't they just fix the faulty software ......... sigh
Is it really that unreasonable to expect it to work correctly?
Humax have pizz poor ideas about software ......... they are completely incompetent with testing it and then bury their heads in the sand - was going to say ars* .......
Did you really have to post the same thing in (at least) three different threads?
Anyway, aren't the problems with AR at the broadcaster and not in the 9200? And isn't it possible for AR to work in the same way as the "Press Red" prompt that appears when BBC News starts - a signal sent from the broadcaster (say, at the start of the Ident) that says This is about to start, regardless of whether or not the EPG has been updated?
Anyway, aren't the problems with AR at the broadcaster and not in the 9200?
Yes the problem is with the broadcasters, however Humax have decided to incorporate this feature without giving much thought to how it's customers would use it.
There is no reason why accurate recording can not be used in conjunction with padding. This would mean it works on channels that simply broadcast Now/Next based on time, and would also work where the channel is accurate with Now and Next.
The majority of channels will never support accurate recording and as this is mutually exclusive with padding, everyone will just go back to padding making the whole feature a waste of time, time that could have been spent fixing bugs perhaps?
Anyway, aren't the problems with AR at the broadcaster and not in the 9200? And isn't it possible for AR to work in the same way as the "Press Red" prompt that appears when BBC News starts - a signal sent from the broadcaster (say, at the start of the Ident) that says This is about to start, regardless of whether or not the EPG has been updated?
They could have introduced a new data stream but the same problems remain, there is no incentive for the TV companies to spend money on implementing signals for accurate recording. The commercial stations have even less reason to encourage PVR use with accurate recording as it means more adverts are skipped.
There is nothing technically wrong with using Now and Next, and it would work if it had 100% support from the broadcasting companies and/or some thought put into it's implementation on the product.
Well, the BBC doesn't need an incentive - they have to do what's best for the viewer (in the eyes of the BBC Trust).
But I see your point about commercial broadcasters. Couldn't something be added to the DVB-T specification so they had no choice but to either add a signal or maintain accurate Now/Next info?
Ive just peformed a test on recording Friends on channel 4 at 12:55-13:25 using AR on Humax and PDC on DVD recorder using analogue.
The Humax started recording at 12:55 and the DVD recorder remained inactive until about 12:56 when it started to record.
When all had finished I had a look and found that on the Humax Friends didnt start until 1min 16 secs into the recording.
The DVD recording started just as the sponsor for Friends was starting.
However both methods did record the whole of Friends as it finished at about 13:23.
What I would like to know is, if these channels are still broadcasting the PDC signal to track an accurate start/finish time then why wasn't PDC used with Freeview Playback?
Is there an issue that prevents this from happening?
What I would like to know is, if these channels are still broadcasting the PDC signal to track an accurate start/finish time then why wasn't PDC used with Freeview Playback?
Is there an issue that prevents this from happening?
Well, the BBC doesn't need an incentive - they have to do what's best for the viewer (in the eyes of the BBC Trust).
But I see your point about commercial broadcasters. Couldn't something be added to the DVB-T specification so they had no choice but to either add a signal or maintain accurate Now/Next info?
I agree with that- it should be forced on the broadcasters. Do it or you use your licence and with sky snapping at the heels there is always someone willing to take a free slot
I agree with that- it should be forced on the broadcasters. Do it or you use your licence and with sky snapping at the heels there is always someone willing to take a free slot
At the mention of Sky, that is the only channel where I have had a failing using Accurate recording, recorded 'Redcoats' and both the beginning and the end were missing, so they are obviously not using any flagging for it!!!:mad:
What I would like to know is, if these channels are still broadcasting the PDC signal to track an accurate start/finish time then why wasn't PDC used with Freeview Playback?
PDC is a signal transmitted within the picture, normally carried by teletext but can be encoded within the picture itself. The digital platform can't support it without a lot of changes.
Now and Next for accurate recording would work perfectly if it was supported by all companies, but it isn't and never will be and just amounts to nothing more than a marketing gimmick.
I admire everyone's testing and faith that when it seems to work that is an indicator that given a few more tests and a couple of weeks it will all fall into place and accurate recording will be a reality, but it isn't going to happen.
Accurate recording will see you losing the ends/starts of more programs than using padding.
My Daewoo 9502T (which my Hummy replaced) had "Digital PDC" which worked perfectly every time on all BBC channels (which I was very impressed with).
None of the other channels seemed to transmit the necessary signal which I thought a shame then, and do even more so now considering the problems posters on this site seem to be having with "Accurate Recording".
So why on earth doesn't Humax give the option for the user to chose which channels to use AR on. The user could then chose, say, BBC channels use AR and all other use padding. It doesn't to me appear to be rocket science. There again, what do I know!!
Accurate recording will see you losing the ends/starts of more programs than using padding.
Regards
Phil
Question is, when implemented, will series link work with padding or will one be forced to use AR? That is, if I have, say, one minute/5 minutes autopadding set for beginning/end, will this be applied to each and every instance of a series I'm recording at their scheduled start and end times?
My Daewoo 9502T had "Digital PDC" which worked perfectly every time on all BBC channels.
Is this really true? I have installed version 1.00.15 software on my Hummy, but I am still using autopadding (1 minute pre-padding, 5 minutes post-padding).
I have just watched "Balderdash and Piffle" (BBC2) that I recorded last night. Whilst playing the 1 minute pre-padding I pressed the "I" button to see what it displayed. I believe that it is the "Now and Next" info that is embedded in the programme datastream, and hence recorded to disk as part of the programme.
"Now and Next" changed at a time exactly equivalent to 10.00pm, but the previous programme continued for another 1 min 20 secs (so if I had been using accurate recording for that programme I would have lost the last 1 min 20 secs).
At the end of "Balderdash and Piffle", the same thing happened -- "Now and Next" changed to "Newsnight" exactly at 10.30pm, but 1 min 20 secs before the end of "Balderdash and Piffle".
On this evidence, BBC2 is either not yet broadcasting accurate "Now and Next", or it is sporadic.
On my Eastenders recording last night using AR which continued to 20:31, at 30mins pressing the i button showed the next programme (the 8:30 programme) so the AR signal doesn't to me seem to be related to the Now/Next.
Comments
If would be good to confirm if users of other makes of PVR claiming to implement "Accurate Recording" ended up with the same recording of Eastenders tonight.
Once we have confirmed that if give the any Freeview Playback Certified machine the right data and it will harassing the BBC to get their house in order and stop blaming machine manufactures/users.
If it can cope with that lot, it would be impressive..!
Trouble is nobody is sure if ITV are actually using the accurate recording data or not yet. Im sure I read somewhere that they are still testing it.
I have recorded again using autotracking and had total success on BBC2.
It was from 21:00 to 22:00
It recorded 21:00 to 22:02 (ended when the next program started).
What I have noticed is the now and next information is wrong, it runs on the scheduled time slot, autotracking has nothing to do with now and next, it also has nothing to do with the program description when you press the i button during a recording.
It also appears if the program is starting late, the humax still starts recording at the scheduled time (when the previous program is still on = running late).
I have not recorded a program that started early yet.
For what its worth I haven't had one recording set with AR miss the start or the finish. so this will be a good challenge.
GG:) All three now set for monday using Accurate Recording will report back at 09.00 hours or so Monday night!!!!
ITV you miss the begging so maybe they are not sending out the signal.
I do have some tests set for ITV this morning and will report back when they are finished.
It depends what you are using to view Now and Next data. Some boxes may not use the EIT p/f but create Now and Next from the EPG guide, or don't use the Freeview EIT p/f but an alternative.
I've seen everytime the Humax start recording the moment the Now/Next data changes.
Everything we have read states Accurate Recording will use the EIT p/f data if it is using the Freeview EPG data, and that is what the Humax is using.
The Humax is working fine with the accurate recording and all the oddities and problems are simply down to the fact the broadcasters are not tying in Now and Next to the exact start of the program. Sometimes by coincidence it seems to work perfectly and other times it doesn't but a lot of this is just down to chance. Regional opt outs will also see people having a different experience even with the same program set.
Regards
Phil
Got the same here when I tested out recording Eastenders, 20:00-20:31
Set to record the Doctor Who cartoon at 10:30 on BBC2.
Prog started at 10:29 and didnt start recording until 10:30
It seems that it may record to the end of a prog when running over time from what others have said, but the AR does not activate when start times are earlier than the EPG start time. Which im sure PhilipL may of mentioned before.
It over runs simply because AR only has a start event, no stop event, this means you get natural padding because the recording carries on until it sees the start event of the next program and then knows the current one is over, or should be.
For example:
7:30 Program start <-- Program becomes Now event, PVR starts recording
.
.
.
.
.
7:58 Program finishes
.
<plug for other BBC programs>
.
8:00 Next program starts - and Now is replaced by this program, triggers PVR to stop.
I think people are expecting to work as:
7:30 Program start <-- PVR gets signal to record
.
.
.
.
.
7:58 Program finishes <-- PVR gets signal to stop, program recorded exactly from beginning to end.
.
<plug for other BBC programs>
.
8:00 Following program starts - new signal sent to start recording
But it doesn't work like this it works as per the first example so there is a certain amount of natural padding. Remember a program in a 30 minute slot may only be 26 minutes or so in length but you will still get a 30 minute recording but it seems down to chance if the 26 minute program happens to all reside in that 30 minute recording slot.
Regards
Phil
I wonder why it wasnt made to work by tracking the programme itself rather than the EPG info or do we need to wait for the remaining stages to be completed before it all works correctly?
Is it really that unreasonable to expect it to work correctly?
Humax have pizz poor ideas about software ......... they are completely incompetent with testing it and then bury their heads in the sand - was going to say ars* .......
Anyway, aren't the problems with AR at the broadcaster and not in the 9200? And isn't it possible for AR to work in the same way as the "Press Red" prompt that appears when BBC News starts - a signal sent from the broadcaster (say, at the start of the Ident) that says This is about to start, regardless of whether or not the EPG has been updated?
Yes the problem is with the broadcasters, however Humax have decided to incorporate this feature without giving much thought to how it's customers would use it.
There is no reason why accurate recording can not be used in conjunction with padding. This would mean it works on channels that simply broadcast Now/Next based on time, and would also work where the channel is accurate with Now and Next.
The majority of channels will never support accurate recording and as this is mutually exclusive with padding, everyone will just go back to padding making the whole feature a waste of time, time that could have been spent fixing bugs perhaps?
They could have introduced a new data stream but the same problems remain, there is no incentive for the TV companies to spend money on implementing signals for accurate recording. The commercial stations have even less reason to encourage PVR use with accurate recording as it means more adverts are skipped.
There is nothing technically wrong with using Now and Next, and it would work if it had 100% support from the broadcasting companies and/or some thought put into it's implementation on the product.
Regards
Phil
But I see your point about commercial broadcasters. Couldn't something be added to the DVB-T specification so they had no choice but to either add a signal or maintain accurate Now/Next info?
The Humax started recording at 12:55 and the DVD recorder remained inactive until about 12:56 when it started to record.
When all had finished I had a look and found that on the Humax Friends didnt start until 1min 16 secs into the recording.
The DVD recording started just as the sponsor for Friends was starting.
However both methods did record the whole of Friends as it finished at about 13:23.
What I would like to know is, if these channels are still broadcasting the PDC signal to track an accurate start/finish time then why wasn't PDC used with Freeview Playback?
Is there an issue that prevents this from happening?
I agree with that- it should be forced on the broadcasters. Do it or you use your licence and with sky snapping at the heels there is always someone willing to take a free slot
GG:(
PDC is a signal transmitted within the picture, normally carried by teletext but can be encoded within the picture itself. The digital platform can't support it without a lot of changes.
Now and Next for accurate recording would work perfectly if it was supported by all companies, but it isn't and never will be and just amounts to nothing more than a marketing gimmick.
I admire everyone's testing and faith that when it seems to work that is an indicator that given a few more tests and a couple of weeks it will all fall into place and accurate recording will be a reality, but it isn't going to happen.
Accurate recording will see you losing the ends/starts of more programs than using padding.
Regards
Phil
None of the other channels seemed to transmit the necessary signal which I thought a shame then, and do even more so now considering the problems posters on this site seem to be having with "Accurate Recording".
Question is, when implemented, will series link work with padding or will one be forced to use AR? That is, if I have, say, one minute/5 minutes autopadding set for beginning/end, will this be applied to each and every instance of a series I'm recording at their scheduled start and end times?
I have just watched "Balderdash and Piffle" (BBC2) that I recorded last night. Whilst playing the 1 minute pre-padding I pressed the "I" button to see what it displayed. I believe that it is the "Now and Next" info that is embedded in the programme datastream, and hence recorded to disk as part of the programme.
"Now and Next" changed at a time exactly equivalent to 10.00pm, but the previous programme continued for another 1 min 20 secs (so if I had been using accurate recording for that programme I would have lost the last 1 min 20 secs).
At the end of "Balderdash and Piffle", the same thing happened -- "Now and Next" changed to "Newsnight" exactly at 10.30pm, but 1 min 20 secs before the end of "Balderdash and Piffle".
On this evidence, BBC2 is either not yet broadcasting accurate "Now and Next", or it is sporadic.
-- from CyberSimian in the UK