I feel that the lack of major threat was what made this episode refreshing for me, wheras other people were apparently falling alseep
EDIT: Outside, I am not necessarily RTD bashing, but I do not understand all the people who were so bored with the episode. RTD is the only comparison I can make as he is the only other nu who writer to have written a christmas special.
I feel that the lack of major threat was what made this episode refreshing for me, wheras other people were apparently falling alseep
EDIT: Outside, I am not necessarily RTD bashing, but I do not understand all the people who were so bored witht he episode. RTD is the only comparison I can make as he is the only other nu who writer to have written a christmas special.
So you do not understand all the people who were so bored with ACC yet dismiss the previous 5 years specials as 'tosh'.
I feel that the lack of major threat was what made this episode refreshing for me, wheras other people were apparently falling alseep
EDIT: Outside, I am not necessarily RTD bashing, but I do not understand all the people who were so bored witht he episode. RTD is the only comparison I can make as he is the only other nu who writer to have written a christmas special.
RTD's Christmas episodes may have been crap (amongst the worst of New Who) but they weren't as boring as A Christmas Carol, that is the difference. I personally didn't fall asleep watching ACC, but wished I had.
Of course, I am not stating this as fact, but IMO (a dangerous thing on this forum! )
I do enjoy the other specials, but as a group, the level of threat faced makes them seem repetetive to me. ("Tosh" may seem a bit harsh, but this is only in retrospect)
Again, I felt that the tone of this years' special separated it from what went on before because it felt comparatively new. (forgetting the fact that ACC is new anyway )
I feel that the lack of major threat was what made this episode refreshing for me, wheras other people were apparently falling alseep
EDIT: Outside, I am not necessarily RTD bashing, but I do not understand all the people who were so bored with the episode. RTD is the only comparison I can make as he is the only other nu who writer to have written a christmas special.
the lack of threat, was just a different threat....but again, like the past it wasn't the focal point, but an excuse to tell another story...so while it was different...its purpose was similar to the past.....and also Moff had to make something different.....yet taking elements of the past of his own and RTD stories....and other sources.....nothing wrong with that at all....and in the end everyone is going to enjoy the stories for different reasons. I enjoyed it for the character peice, in the same way I enjoyed the Next Doctor....they both are equal in my eyes...with some flaws.....
In terms of People falling aslepp, I'm sure Daveyboy won't mind me mentioning it, but he fell asleep for EOT.....so if people are saying then it could be for any reason....not just becuase the Earth isn't in danger....
Of course, I am not stating this as fact, but IMO (a dangerous thing on this forum! )
I do enjoy the other specials, but as a group, the level of threat faced makes them seem repetetive to me. ("Tosh" may seem a bit harsh, but this is only in retrospect)
Again, I felt that the tone of this years' special separated it from what went on before because it felt comparatively new. (forgetting the fact that ACC is new anyway )
I think the main problem I had with your earlier post was that in order to prove the reptitviness of teh past specail you simplified them too much...and like my summary proved, they all had something different to tell....the threats were actaully the small part. You also asked the question how we all put up with RTD specials....so you were putting your feelings on us. The answer is simple...everyone has different views and reasons to why they like one episode or hate it even....
I'm not Kate, but I did think it deserved "poor". If I knew the next series would be "average", then I'd probably still watch it for nostalgic reasons. If I knew it would be the same standard as ACC, then I wouldn't bother watching. That's what "poor" means to me.
I didn't mind the lack of world threat. It did bother me that it was contrived so the Tardis couldn't trivially solve it. It doesn't help that a reason for this was given: it was still lazy, contrived writing. Similarly it bothered me that the rules against a person touching themselves got ignored. They seemed to be ignoring all the usual canon for the sake of the story.
I found the story rather obvious. Some people may have liked the references to Dickens; for me they made it dull. That the girl was dying was obvious - although a bit nonsensical to have her days remaining posted on her fridge, or for the miser to accept a dying person as collateral in the first place. There were a few intriguing ideas, such as whether the Doctor has the right to alter a person's personality like that, but they weren't explored. Instead we got childish puff about Marilyn Monroe and card tricks going wrong.
I'm a Moffat fan, but I didn't like this. I couldn't see past the plot-holes and silliness.
EDIT: Outside, I am not necessarily RTD bashing, but I do not understand all the people who were so bored with the episode. RTD is the only comparison I can make as he is the only other nu who writer to have written a christmas special.
Fair enough.
I just think that, as you know, this forum has too many "I love Daleks but - rather than telling you just how lovely they are - I'm going to talk about how pathetic the Quarks were".
I just think that, as you know, this forum has too many "I love Daleks but - rather than telling you just how lovely they are - I'm going to talk about how pathetic the Quarks were".
I'm not Kate, but I did think it deserved "poor". If I knew the next series would be "average", then I'd probably still watch it for nostalgic reasons. If I knew it would be the same standard as ACC, then I wouldn't bother watching. That's what "poor" means to me.
I didn't mind the lack of world threat. It did bother me that it was contrived so the Tardis couldn't trivially solve it. It doesn't help that a reason for this was given: it was still lazy, contrived writing. Similarly it bothered me that the rules against a person touching themselves got ignored. They seemed to be ignoring all the usual canon for the sake of the story.
I found the story rather obvious. Some people may have liked the references to Dickens; for me they made it dull. That the girl was dying was obvious - although a bit nonsensical to have her days remaining posted on her fridge, or for the miser to accept a dying person as collateral in the first place. There were a few intriguing ideas, such as whether the Doctor has the right to alter a person's personality like that, but they weren't explored. Instead we got childish puff about Marilyn Monroe and card tricks going wrong.
I'm a Moffat fan, but I didn't like this. I couldn't see past the plot-holes and silliness.
Excellent post, points which too many choose to ignore in their misguided attempts at defending this episode or because it doesn't suit their own agendas.
But that means over a quarter of people who are Doctor Who fans rated it average or below, so not really something to be proud of.
Your point, being? It's just one episode. If more people like than dislike, that's all I care about - and besides, the DS DW population isn't the biggest fraction out of 10 million.
there is never going to be an episode everyone likes, and any episode that gets over 70% in these polls is quite clearly a fairly popular episode with DS forum members, that really cannot be denied.
besides which trying to group those that rated the episode average in with those that disliked it is highly flawed.
i remember one joker tried the same trick in the thread about Matt's casting, claiming that around half were against his casting when in fact the larger section of the two groups he had put together had stated they were undecided.
The point here is that opinions are never wrong, so yuo can hardly decide which ones are right, let alone which are misguided!
Example from an A2 history student (namely myself): Some people could be of the opinion that Hitler was one of the best things to happen to Germany. Even this opinion is not incorrect.
In a way, they are right. Hitler led the germans out of a period of depression and hyper inflation that led to Germany emerging as a strong force again, when after versailles, the allies had hoped to keep them as weak as possible. (Of course, this is all pre ww2 stuff I am talking about, which is why I said in a way.)
(IMO Hitler's lasting legacy to Germany was that a country that had only recently unified was left divided again for several decades.)
Not necessarily relevant to DW, but opinions are just that. They are never misguided
Excellent post, points which too many choose to ignore in their misguided attempts at defending this episode or because it doesn't suit their own agendas.
Excuse me, but is it a crime for me just to have enjoyed the story? I'm not into justifying my enjoyment of the episode, or looking for plot holes, or over analyzing the direction, acting, or commenting on whether singing has a place within Doctor Who. Basically, I was there to enjoy the story. Now I'm very sorry if it didn't do anything for you but in my case my favourite program done exactly what I hoped it would do - entertain me.
surly adam can't have said that...it was only the other day he was lecturing me about respecting other peoples opinions! Surely he wouldn't make such a statement in light of that!:p
surly adam can't have said that...it was only the other day he was lecturing me about respecting other peoples opinions! Surely he wouldn't make such a statement in light of that!:p
although in retrospect perhaps he was talking about himself....;)
surly adam can't have said that...it was only the other day he was lecturing me about respecting other peoples opinions! Surely he wouldn't make such a statement in light of that!:p
Some posters have the view, "All posters are equal but only as long as they agree with my opinion".
although in retrospect perhaps he was talking about himself....;)
I didn't say that was about you, it was you yourself that thought it was about you.
The point here is that opinions are never wrong, so yuo can hardly decide which ones are right, let alone which are misguided!
Example from an A2 history student (namely myself): Some people could be of the opinion that Hitler was one of the best things to happen to Germany. Even this opinion is not incorrect.
In a way, they are right. Hitler led the germans out of a period of depression and hyper inflation that led to Germany emerging as a strong force again, when after versailles, the allies had hoped to keep them as weak as possible. (Of course, this is all pre ww2 stuff I am talking about, which is why I said in a way.)
(IMO Hitler's lasting legacy to Germany was that a country that had only recently unified was left divided again for several decades.)
Not necessarily relevant to DW, but opinions are just that. They are never misguided
I wasn't talking about opinions, I was referring to people glossing over and trying to defend the very large plot holes in the story, and the inconsistencies compared to even recent stories by the same author.
Excuse me, but is it a crime for me just to have enjoyed the story? I'm not into justifying my enjoyment of the episode, or looking for plot holes, or over analyzing the direction, acting, or commenting on whether singing has a place within Doctor Who. Basically, I was there to enjoy the story. Now I'm very sorry if it didn't do anything for you but in my case my favourite program done exactly what I hoped it would do - entertain me.
I refer you to my previous post. Sure, if you were entertained despite the many flaws, that's fine. I myself prefer my Doctor Who to make more sense and be internally consistent (and also not so boring).
Comments
Why? What does he have to do with "A Christmas Carol"?
I feel that the lack of major threat was what made this episode refreshing for me, wheras other people were apparently falling alseep
EDIT: Outside, I am not necessarily RTD bashing, but I do not understand all the people who were so bored with the episode. RTD is the only comparison I can make as he is the only other nu who writer to have written a christmas special.
So you do not understand all the people who were so bored with ACC yet dismiss the previous 5 years specials as 'tosh'.
One word for you: opinion
RTD's Christmas episodes may have been crap (amongst the worst of New Who) but they weren't as boring as A Christmas Carol, that is the difference. I personally didn't fall asleep watching ACC, but wished I had.
Of course, I am not stating this as fact, but IMO (a dangerous thing on this forum!
I do enjoy the other specials, but as a group, the level of threat faced makes them seem repetetive to me. ("Tosh" may seem a bit harsh, but this is only in retrospect)
Again, I felt that the tone of this years' special separated it from what went on before because it felt comparatively new. (forgetting the fact that ACC is new anyway
the lack of threat, was just a different threat....but again, like the past it wasn't the focal point, but an excuse to tell another story...so while it was different...its purpose was similar to the past.....and also Moff had to make something different.....yet taking elements of the past of his own and RTD stories....and other sources.....nothing wrong with that at all....and in the end everyone is going to enjoy the stories for different reasons. I enjoyed it for the character peice, in the same way I enjoyed the Next Doctor....they both are equal in my eyes...with some flaws.....
In terms of People falling aslepp, I'm sure Daveyboy won't mind me mentioning it, but he fell asleep for EOT.....so if people are saying then it could be for any reason....not just becuase the Earth isn't in danger....
I think the main problem I had with your earlier post was that in order to prove the reptitviness of teh past specail you simplified them too much...and like my summary proved, they all had something different to tell....the threats were actaully the small part. You also asked the question how we all put up with RTD specials....so you were putting your feelings on us. The answer is simple...everyone has different views and reasons to why they like one episode or hate it even....
Currently, at 303 votes, 73.58% of the voters have rated "A Christmas Carol" a score of 'Good' or more.
I didn't mind the lack of world threat. It did bother me that it was contrived so the Tardis couldn't trivially solve it. It doesn't help that a reason for this was given: it was still lazy, contrived writing. Similarly it bothered me that the rules against a person touching themselves got ignored. They seemed to be ignoring all the usual canon for the sake of the story.
I found the story rather obvious. Some people may have liked the references to Dickens; for me they made it dull. That the girl was dying was obvious - although a bit nonsensical to have her days remaining posted on her fridge, or for the miser to accept a dying person as collateral in the first place. There were a few intriguing ideas, such as whether the Doctor has the right to alter a person's personality like that, but they weren't explored. Instead we got childish puff about Marilyn Monroe and card tricks going wrong.
I'm a Moffat fan, but I didn't like this. I couldn't see past the plot-holes and silliness.
Although I don't agree, that made me chuckle.
I just think that, as you know, this forum has too many "I love Daleks but - rather than telling you just how lovely they are - I'm going to talk about how pathetic the Quarks were".
!!!
Oh, no, you don't, fella! That's bang out of order. :mad:
Get ourra my pub!
I'm sorry you had to witness that, Granny.
Thanks for ejecting that dreadful fellow.
I'm glad you put that in spoilers. Dodo is upset enough already. (She reads the thread over my shoulder).
But that means over a quarter of people who are Doctor Who fans rated it average or below, so not really something to be proud of.
Excellent post, points which too many choose to ignore in their misguided attempts at defending this episode or because it doesn't suit their own agendas.
but 70+ is still bigger than 25+
The glass is half full......:p:p
Your point, being? It's just one episode. If more people like than dislike, that's all I care about - and besides, the DS DW population isn't the biggest fraction out of 10 million.
besides which trying to group those that rated the episode average in with those that disliked it is highly flawed.
i remember one joker tried the same trick in the thread about Matt's casting, claiming that around half were against his casting when in fact the larger section of the two groups he had put together had stated they were undecided.
The point here is that opinions are never wrong, so yuo can hardly decide which ones are right, let alone which are misguided!
Example from an A2 history student (namely myself): Some people could be of the opinion that Hitler was one of the best things to happen to Germany. Even this opinion is not incorrect.
In a way, they are right. Hitler led the germans out of a period of depression and hyper inflation that led to Germany emerging as a strong force again, when after versailles, the allies had hoped to keep them as weak as possible. (Of course, this is all pre ww2 stuff I am talking about, which is why I said in a way.)
(IMO Hitler's lasting legacy to Germany was that a country that had only recently unified was left divided again for several decades.)
Not necessarily relevant to DW, but opinions are just that. They are never misguided
Excuse me, but is it a crime for me just to have enjoyed the story? I'm not into justifying my enjoyment of the episode, or looking for plot holes, or over analyzing the direction, acting, or commenting on whether singing has a place within Doctor Who. Basically, I was there to enjoy the story. Now I'm very sorry if it didn't do anything for you but in my case my favourite program done exactly what I hoped it would do - entertain me.
surly adam can't have said that...it was only the other day he was lecturing me about respecting other peoples opinions! Surely he wouldn't make such a statement in light of that!:p
although in retrospect perhaps he was talking about himself....;)
You are correct, I didn't say that.
I didn't say that was about you, it was you yourself that thought it was about you.
I wasn't talking about opinions, I was referring to people glossing over and trying to defend the very large plot holes in the story, and the inconsistencies compared to even recent stories by the same author.
I refer you to my previous post. Sure, if you were entertained despite the many flaws, that's fine. I myself prefer my Doctor Who to make more sense and be internally consistent (and also not so boring).