Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 4)

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kana wrote: »
I thought he was more defensive and the goals were an occasional bonus. I hope so for his sake as if he's competing with the other group with Oscar thrown in, he'd be better off staying where he is for another year.

Continuation of: Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 3)
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  • codebluecodeblue Posts: 14,072
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    Welcome

    Hopefully this thread will see us win the premiership, the supercup and a hat trick of european trophies!
  • RichmondBlueRichmondBlue Posts: 21,279
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    More speculation about a move for Daniele De Rossi. We have apparently improved on our original offer, the talk now is about £15m. I can understand the thinking behind the deal, it would be an immediate short-term solution to our problem in defensive midfield, we have plenty of players capable of playing alongside him in a 4-2-3-1, or he could play the straightforward holding role in a 4-3-3.
    Can't help thinking it's a bit of a let-down after a season talking about the possibility of Fellaini (or some other rising star) joining us. De Rossi is (or was) an outstanding player, but he's not one for the long-term future.
  • NinjyBearNinjyBear Posts: 8,317
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    codeblue wrote: »
    Welcome

    Hopefully this thread will see us win the premiership, the supercup and a hat trick of european trophies!

    Well, the last thread lasted 7 months, so that's probably too much to ask from part 4 :o
  • codebluecodeblue Posts: 14,072
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    More speculation about a move for Daniele De Rossi. We have apparently improved on our original offer, the talk now is about £15m. I can understand the thinking behind the deal, it would be an immediate short-term solution to our problem in defensive midfield, we have plenty of players capable of playing alongside him in a 4-2-3-1, or he could play the straightforward holding role in a 4-3-3.
    Can't help thinking it's a bit of a let-down after a season talking about the possibility of Fellaini (or some other rising star) joining us. De Rossi is (or was) an outstanding player, but he's not one for the long-term future.

    £15m is too much for short termism.

    If it were 10, i could sort of agree - a swap for mikkel in monetary terms.

    If we are spending big, throw in another 5 or 6 million and get the real deal in Fellaini.

    Why no one has secured his services is beyond me.

    Would he strengthen arsenal, united or chelsea? yes, yes and yes.

    Its all well and goo signing yet another young forward facing player but without propping them up its an expensive house build on poor foundations.
  • NinjyBearNinjyBear Posts: 8,317
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    Matej Delac has signed for Vojvodina on loan for the season.

    No idea who the hell they are, but I think we're already into double figures for loan deals :eek:
  • codebluecodeblue Posts: 14,072
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    NinjyBear wrote: »
    Matej Delac has signed for Vojvodina on loan for the season.

    No idea who the hell they are, but I think we're already into double figures for loan deals :eek:

    Loans are fine, but there has to be a pathway for them, if they do well, to get into our first team.

    Otherwise what the point, unless its a business plan?
  • ButterfliesButterflies Posts: 2,308
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    codeblue wrote: »
    Loans are fine, but there has to be a pathway for them, if they do well, to get into our first team.

    Otherwise what the point, unless its a business plan?

    Getting ready for FFP I guess. Sign players for peanuts, watch their market value grow and sell them later with buy back clauses in case a 'Matic' ever happens?
  • denddend Posts: 2,176
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    Gomez off to Fiorentina i see, dodged a bullet there i think. Villa to Athletico Madrid also. Strikers are on the move and we are yet to sign one, im surprised really.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 938
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    It doesn't help that we have been linked with almost every striker that has moved this window. It would be funny if we were done already and Schurrle and van Ginkel were it. I don't think I would mind as our squad is pretty strong already. Just the endless speculation is doing my head in.
  • NinjyBearNinjyBear Posts: 8,317
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    Bony about to sign for Swansea. Was never keen on him, so that's another rumour I'm glad to see the back of.
  • denddend Posts: 2,176
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    Am i 100% convinced that Torres and Lukaku (and Ba) can fire us to the premier league / CL? No, and therefore i think we need to sign someone else. Torres is not going to be his old self, Lukaku is still unproven at the highest level and Ba has never really looked like a world class striker. Fact is it will be a bold move to not sign anyone else if we want to fully challenge for the league and CL.
  • codebluecodeblue Posts: 14,072
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    kana wrote: »
    It doesn't help that we have been linked with almost every striker that has moved this window. It would be funny if we were done already and Schurrle and van Ginkel were it. I don't think I would mind as our squad is pretty strong already. Just the endless speculation is doing my head in.

    If the window closed right now, we would have a good team to go forward.

    At least we are not in the situation that our rivals are in:

    United have their star (english) player asking for 2 transfers.

    Arsenal are linked with Higuain, Rooney, Fellaini and uncle tom cobley and they will sign no one.

    Liverpool have sold some decent english players and replaced them with untested players having spent the Suarez money before it arrives!

    City have sold tevez and balotelli, and look like dzeko is going too!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 938
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    codeblue wrote: »
    If the window closed right now, we would have a good team to go forward.

    At least we are not in the situation that our rivals are in:

    United have their star (english) player asking for 2 transfers.

    Arsenal are linked with Higuain, Rooney, Fellaini and uncle tom cobley and they will sign no one.

    Liverpool have sold some decent english players and replaced them with untested players having spent the Suarez money before it arrives!

    City have sold tevez and balotelli, and look like dzeko is going too!

    City and Arsenal look pretty strong, Arsenal more stable than strong but definitely contenders. I think Arsenal will get Higuain and maybe Fellaini. City look a lot stronger than last year already with Negredo, Navas and Fernandinho (glad they missed out on Isco). Both City and us underperformed last year in the PL so expect next year to be more competitive.

    I hate to scapegoat, but our striking problem is rooted in Torres. The team was re-engineered for him rather than him adapting to the style of play we already had, but he wasn't in the form to make use of it. Our problem is maybe Roman hasn't accepted this and will try and get Jose to make his bad buy good (though I can't see Jose being told what team to pick). Ba and Lukaku seem more adaptable and don't require a team being built around them. I think we can get by on an outstanding midfield if our defence improves, our strikers only need to be adequate with the service they're getting for us to be successful. Torres has actually been more of a hindrance despite his moments as we have never been able to count on him being consistently adequate.
  • denddend Posts: 2,176
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    Realistically Man Utd and Man City should be our real challengers. Man Utd have a damn good team but definitely some question marks over Moyes and whether he can step up. To be fair to Moyes, any manager who went in after Fergie would have question marks against them, including Jose.

    Man City look good value for a strong title challenge, theyve improved their team and they have a better manager this year(IMO), but so we do we in Jose. You also forget they have Aguero who is up there with RVP and Suarez as the best strikers in the league. So losing Tevez and Dzeko really isnt a big deal to them. They will likely sign another striker before the transfer windows out as well.

    I still think sorting our striker issue out is the main thing that we need to do. Too long we have relied on Torres and he arguebly ruined our defence last season also as we went all out attacking and played 3 attacking midfielders to try get the best out of him. The balance of the team was lost and we suffered greatly. We cant pander to him anymore we have to play our best, balanced team. That also applies to Mata, Oscar and Hazard, im still not convinced we can play all 3 behind the striker. Oscar in midfield maybe, but i expect to see Schrulle/Moses a lot just like under Rafa.

    My current first 11 would be something like:

    Cech
    Azpi Ivan Terry Cole
    Oscar Luiz
    Ramires/Schrulle Mata Hazard
    Torres/Lukaku
  • RichmondBlueRichmondBlue Posts: 21,279
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    kana wrote: »
    City and Arsenal look pretty strong, Arsenal more stable than strong but definitely contenders. I think Arsenal will get Higuain and maybe Fellaini. City look a lot stronger than last year already with Negredo, Navas and Fernandinho (glad they missed out on Isco). Both City and us underperformed last year in the PL so expect next year to be more competitive.

    I hate to scapegoat, but our striking problem is rooted in Torres. The team was re-engineered for him rather than him adapting to the style of play we already had, but he wasn't in the form to make use of it. Our problem is maybe Roman hasn't accepted this and will try and get Jose to make his bad buy good (though I can't see Jose being told what team to pick). Ba and Lukaku seem more adaptable and don't require a team being built around them. I think we can get by on an outstanding midfield if our defence improves, our strikers only need to be adequate with the service they're getting for us to be successful. Torres has actually been more of a hindrance despite his moments as we have never been able to count on him being consistently adequate.

    I agree, the Torres signing was a disaster. It wasn't just the £50m fee involved, the wages (probably £9 or10 million a year ?) and the length of his contract (five and a half years ?) have been crippling. It's altered our thinking, we've bent over backwards to accommodate him.

    I have a feeling that even now the fact that Torres is still on our books is holding us back. Mourinho must have been given assurances that there were funds available, but so far he appears reticent to make any firm moves. The Schurrie signing was well advanced before he arrived, so that just leaves Van Ginkel, who is more likely to be one for the future.
    But the good thing is that Jose will not be satisfied with the current situation. He's not the type to wait patiently for players to be ready, he will want results immediately. I expect a couple of big signings in the current window.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 938
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    dend wrote: »

    My current first 11 would be something like:

    Cech
    Azpi Ivan Terry Cole
    Oscar Luiz
    Ramires/Schrulle Mata Hazard
    Torres/Lukaku

    My starting 11 would look pretty similar, only Ramires or Oscar partnering David Luiz in midfield and Torres on the subs bench with Ba. I think we should show some faith in Lukaku and give him a good run as starting striker.

    If two strikers are both on good form (could happen lol) we could also try 4-3-3:
    Cech
    Azpi Ivan Terry Cole

    Ramires/Oscar Luiz Hazard
    Mata
    Lukaku Ba/Torres/Schurrle

    Ramires and Oscar have pretty good engines and seem defensively sound and Hazard has got better at that side as the season has gone on so hopefully wouldn't be too exposed.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 938
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    I agree, the Torres signing was a disaster. It wasn't just the £50m fee involved, the wages (probably £9 or10 million a year ?) and the length of his contract (five and a half years ?) have been crippling. It's altered our thinking, we've bent over backwards to accommodate him.

    I have a feeling that even now the fact that Torres is still on our books is holding us back. Mourinho must have been given assurances that there were funds available, but so far he appears reticent to make any firm moves. The Schurrie signing was well advanced before he arrived, so that just leaves Van Ginkel, who is more likely to be one for the future.
    But the good thing is that Jose will not be satisfied with the current situation. He's not the type to wait patiently for players to be ready, he will want results immediately. I expect a couple of big signings in the current window.

    I dread to think what it all adds up to, but we have to let it go and focus on what's best for the team now rather than right past wrongs. I think Jose is looking to build a solid team who will play to spec and not need any adjustments rather than building it around an exceptional individual.
  • RichmondBlueRichmondBlue Posts: 21,279
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    I'm surprised everyone seems to think David Luiz will continue playing in midfield ? I no longer feel he's a liability playing at CB, he had a great Confederation's Cup, and could become one of the best in the world in that position.

    Maybe the last bit was a trifle over the top, but he could still become a damn good CB. :)
  • ICT User 77ICT User 77 Posts: 11,909
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    Mentioned this a while back, but now that he's officially handed in a transfer request, why not Benteke?

    He showed what he can do in the Premier League last season, he must have some mates at our club, and would cost nowhere near what Cavani would.

    Think we should be looking at him, he would be a great additional striking option for the team.
  • carefree_bluecarefree_blue Posts: 9,012
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    I'd be a bit underwhelmed with Benteke, when we've already got better with Lukaku.
  • NinjyBearNinjyBear Posts: 8,317
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    I'm surprised everyone seems to think David Luiz will continue playing in midfield ? I no longer feel he's a liability playing at CB, he had a great Confederation's Cup, and could become one of the best in the world in that position.

    He was still making Luiz-type mistakes in our last game of the season. I'll reserve judgement on his best position until he's spent a few weeks working with someone who won't tolerate it.
    Mentioned this a while back, but now that he's officially handed in a transfer request, why not Benteke?

    He showed what he can do in the Premier League last season, he must have some mates at our club, and would cost nowhere near what Cavani would.

    Think we should be looking at him, he would be a great additional striking option for the team.

    Better than Torres, but I'd be pretty underwhelmed after months of chasing Cavani and Falcao.


    edit: transfer request on the day where we are properly linked with him? :(
  • RichmondBlueRichmondBlue Posts: 21,279
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    I'd be a bit underwhelmed with Benteke, when we've already got better with Lukaku.

    Yes, me too. We couldn't keep them both happy, both young and similar types of player. From the glimpses I've seen, Lukaku has got that something extra, my money would be on Romelu becoming the class player of the two.

    Actually, forgetting all his problems, Suarez would be the perfect capture for us. He can play a lone strikers role if necessary, or play as the the support striker. He wouldn't hamper Lukaku's development, and could also work with Torres or Ba (if they are staying)
    Same goes for Rooney of course (but I'd be a bit worried about his fitness and dramatic dip in form last season)
  • codebluecodeblue Posts: 14,072
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    Lets hope that Benteke is not joining us.

    We already have a big strong guy to go up front, who actually seems genuinely likable and wants to play for us.

    It would be money down the drain.
  • The_don1The_don1 Posts: 17,385
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    Yes, me too. We couldn't keep them both happy, both young and similar types of player. From the glimpses I've seen, Lukaku has got that something extra, my money would be on Romelu becoming the class player of the two.

    Actually, forgetting all his problems, Suarez would be the perfect capture for us. He can play a lone strikers role if necessary, or play as the the support striker. He wouldn't hamper Lukaku's development, and could also work with Torres or Ba (if they are staying)
    Same goes for Rooney of course (but I'd be a bit worried about his fitness and dramatic dip in form last season)

    Give me Rooney anytime, We can not forget about Suarez's problems as they will follow him where ever he goes. I would not care if he was willing to play for free,pay his fee out of his own pocket and get a Chelsea tat I would rather see us play in the Championship then have him play in a Chelsea shirt. Rooney's issues can all be fixed Suarez's issues will never be fixed as they are part of him. Plus it sends out a much bigger message about our intentions then buying someone from a midtable team.
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