Options

Peter Hitchens Speaks Out Against Cannabis (again) A quality column

JeffersonJefferson Posts: 3,736
Forum Member
✭✭✭
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

The Hitch isn't one to follow the pack - it's probably why when Nicky Campbell pours over the Sunday papers he goes to his column first.

With more and more "thinking people" getting softer and softer on cannabis use it's good, I think, someone is still holding the line.

But what do YOU say (apart from you hate him)? Keep to the issue in hand please.
«134

Comments

  • Options
    dee123dee123 Posts: 46,274
    Forum Member
    :o:D I read that as "cannibals"
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 513
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I recall a few years or so ago that the governments very own appointed scientific experts spoke out and found out and decided cannabis is not nearly as dangerous or harmful as the government want the public to feel it is (excluding super strength strains I guess) and that it should either stay as a Class C substance or moved to a Class D or declassified altogether.

    The government of cause did not like those finding and went against there own experts findings and went with their own personal opinion and went the other way and moved cannabis back to a Class B substance. This left there experts having to resign from their government position as I recall.

    For or against cannabis (personally I'm fairly neutral) what is clear to most that cannabis causes next to no harm or deaths on a per user basis against what alcohol and tobacco does. Yet both those substances are legal, far more harmful and far more addictive. Yet cannabis is classed as a drug and alcohol and tobacco are not?.
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 7,888
    Forum Member
    I'm pretty neutral on it. I don't think it's nearly as bad as other Class B drugs yet if it was to be declassified or downgraded to a Class C, you'd get some people listing off other drugs and why they should be reclassified and no one would be happy.
  • Options
    *Sparkle**Sparkle* Posts: 10,957
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Jefferson wrote: »
    With more and more "thinking people" getting softer and softer on cannabis use it's good, I think, someone is still holding the line.

    "Thinking people" have (by definition) ignored public fashion or consensus, and focus on facts. Scientists in particular try to see the big picture, and consider the evidence, rather than the hype. This is why 'thinking people' have rejected notions like 'holding the line' or being 'soft' or 'hard' on drugs, which are all meaningless statements.

    The legal approach to cannabis in this country is completely out of kilter with the medical evidence, and counter-productive to general public health protection.

    The recent news about 'skunk' being bad for you is a case in point. Certain newspapers tried to lump skunk in with regular cannabis to create dramatic, on message, headlines. We don't presume that absinthe, or meths, is representative of wine or beer!

    In fact, it has been argued that the very presence of an artificial product like skunk on the market is an artefact of the prohibition of the regular sort.

    That's not to say that cannabis is entirely safe, but so long as there are people acting as is all cannabis is akin to heroin, or talk about cannabis when they really mean skunk, it undermines attempts to communicate balanced public health advice.

    My view is that there needs to be a proper rethink on cannabis policy, which should be honest, and practical. If people want to use cannabis, they should be able to get the safe stuff without risking getting the dodgy stuff.

    People in this country don't need to resort to making home-made vodka, and risking going blind, because they can buy stuff in the super-market that has been fully regulated, and made by people who have demonstrated it doesn't contain methanol.
  • Options
    pickwickpickwick Posts: 25,739
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    What's Campbell pouring over the papers? His coffee? I'd probably head for Hitchens first too, in that case - him or Littlejohn.
  • Options
    SaturnVSaturnV Posts: 11,519
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I just think it's daft and pointless.
  • Options
    MsBehaviourMsBehaviour Posts: 5,532
    Forum Member
    There's a big difference between regular cannabis and skunk. Skunk is indeed a dangerous drug. However regular cannabis is far less harmful than alcohol and is a useful therapeutic drug e.g. in easing the pain of peripheral neuropathy, MS etc. which is difficult to manage with other drugs. It should be licensed for this use.
  • Options
    TheSilentFezTheSilentFez Posts: 11,103
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Going through a list of terrorists, showing that they were cannabis users, then asserting "Cannabis makes people terrorists. QED" is just nothing short of idiocy.
    What about all the other people who, apart from using cannabis, have never committed and offence in their life?
    Oh well, I expected nothing less from the likes of Peter Hitchens.

    Personally, I think we should move to decriminalise and possibly legalise cannabis. I don't think anyone doubts that prolonged use can have adverse effects on your mental well being or that the strong stuff is particularly bad, but on balance the regular form of cannabis is far safer than, say, alcohol, which is not only legal, but used by most people on a very regular basis.

    There's nothing wrong with alcohol in moderation, just as with most things, and I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the same doesn't apply to cannabis.

    I should probably add, that I personally have no intention of ever taking it, just as I have no intention of ever getting intoxicated by alcohol. My problem is with the double standards people seem to show when it comes to alcohol and cannabis.
  • Options
    JeffersonJefferson Posts: 3,736
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    pickwick wrote: »
    What's Campbell pouring over the papers? His coffee? I'd probably head for Hitchens first too, in that case - him or Littlejohn.

    Then you would struggle to find the brilliant libertarian that is Littlejohn. His excellent column appears on Tuesday and Friday in The Daily Mail.
  • Options
    JeffersonJefferson Posts: 3,736
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    The Hitch is right about the media ignoring the drug use of people - including when they have mental breakdowns.

    And no one seems to think it's a good idea to discourage young people from getting high in the first place - it's all about getting them off it once the damage is done.
  • Options
    BelfastGuy125BelfastGuy125 Posts: 7,515
    Forum Member
    Jefferson wrote: »
    The Hitch is right about the media ignoring the drug use of people - including when they have mental breakdowns.

    And no one seems to think it's a good idea to discourage young people from getting high in the first place - it's all about getting them off it once the damage is done.

    Well if you think a 60 year old conservative sounding bloke in the daily mail mouthing off will persuade people not to smoke weed you are deluded. More likely the opposite.
  • Options
    The WulfrunianThe Wulfrunian Posts: 1,312
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    A pale shadow of his brilliant brother
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 513
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I'm guessing many or most cases of the claimed major mental health problems with cannabis users is more likely to be down the young age of such users obtaining and using the substance that there undeveloped body and mind simply can't cope with unlike that of an adult. Just like the affects of alcohol and tobacco on the young and undeveloped etc in a way.

    A more tolerated and carefully regulated and controlled use of decriminalisation and availability might solve some issues as well as free up police resources and raise taxes for public services etc.
  • Options
    JeffersonJefferson Posts: 3,736
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Well if you think a 60 year old conservative sounding bloke in the daily mail mouthing off will persuade people not to smoke weed you are deluded. More likely the opposite.

    I didn't say that.
  • Options
    Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Jefferson wrote: »
    Then you would struggle to find the brilliant libertarian that is Littlejohn. His excellent column appears on Tuesday and Friday in The Daily Mail.
    Weed or skunk?
  • Options
    1Mickey1Mickey Posts: 10,427
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Jefferson wrote: »
    The Hitch is right about the media ignoring the drug use of people - including when they have mental breakdowns.

    And no one seems to think it's a good idea to discourage young people from getting high in the first place - it's all about getting them off it once the damage is done.

    What makes you think young people read the Daily Mail?
  • Options
    SemieroticSemierotic Posts: 11,132
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    If you have no problem with alcohol being legal you don't really have a leg to stand on as far as being opposed to cannabis goes. Like alcohol there are many different strengths to it and the effects will vary accordingly. People should be allowed to consume it in their homes and in certain designated public places.

    Is anyone actually surprised a conservative like Hitchens would be against it?
  • Options
    LyricalisLyricalis Posts: 57,958
    Forum Member
    Legalise and regulate it. This will mean that people know what they're getting. The main danger at the moment, if the tabloids are to be believed anyway, is that the stuff available at the moment is much stronger than what was widely available to past generations, and these strong varieties are all that's available. Regulation would mean that these stronger varieties could still be illegal, but people would now have the choice of weaker ones. It's then up to the people who partake to decide which one to go for.

    Personally, I'd still not use the stuff even if it were legal.
  • Options
    SemieroticSemierotic Posts: 11,132
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Jefferson wrote: »
    Then you would struggle to find the brilliant libertarian that is Littlejohn.

    If you admire Littlejohn for being libertarian why are you for the illegalisation of drugs?

    This has always been the conservative paradox: anti-government intrusion yet pro-authoritarian.
  • Options
    jclock66jclock66 Posts: 2,411
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    A pale shadow of his brilliant brother

    Spot on, Christopher is much missed. :(
  • Options
    archiverarchiver Posts: 13,011
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    dave9946 wrote: »
    I'm guessing many or most cases of the claimed major mental health problems with cannabis users is more likely to be down the young age of such users obtaining and using the substance that there undeveloped body and mind simply can't cope with unlike that of an adult. Just like the affects of alcohol and tobacco on the young and undeveloped etc in a way.
    Sadly true and it isn't just kids who get peer pressured into experimenting. Even hardened adult minds can be near devastated by its inappropriate use (Jon Snow).
    A more tolerated and carefully regulated and controlled use of decriminalisation and availability might solve some issues as well as free up police resources and raise taxes for public services etc.
    See this (the BiB) worries me. As does these quotes from the responses above: "the dodgy stuff", "Skunk is indeed a dangerous drug", "the strong stuff is particularly bad". Well I and billyloons of others have sought the stronger variety in our search for spiritual enlightenment. Traditionally; we'd guide you with our psychotic minds and get you believing the wackiest thing we can think up, while all the while calling you all sheep(le). Some prophets didn't even need drugs!
  • Options
    funnierinmyheadfunnierinmyhead Posts: 487
    Forum Member
    I think, once you're 18, or your brain is more or less fully developed, do what you like, smoke in moderation if you like it. I used to like it, don't any more. Don't see what harm is done by someone smoking a spliff with Eastenders.
  • Options
    Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
    Forum Member
    *Sparkle* wrote: »
    "Thinking people" have (by definition) ignored public fashion or consensus, and focus on facts. Scientists in particular try to see the big picture, and consider the evidence, rather than the hype. This is why 'thinking people' have rejected notions like 'holding the line' or being 'soft' or 'hard' on drugs, which are all meaningless statements.

    Not sure about that.

    I'd say that scientists usually look at things from a scientific POV (who knew, right?) rather than considering the legal, moral or social aspects of the subject.
  • Options
    *Sparkle**Sparkle* Posts: 10,957
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Not sure about that.

    I'd say that scientists usually look at things from a scientific POV (who knew, right?) rather than considering the legal, moral or social aspects of the subject.

    You can apply the scientific method to all manner of things, and when you apply it to social situations, it's known as social science. Ever heard of epidemiology?

    Remember, science isn't about a collection of facts, it's all about how people evaluate facts, and asking the right questions, and how to find answers etc.

    The impact of certain legal decisions can be studied and evaluated.

    Of course, morality doesn't have a role in the scientific study of how bad certain drugs are for us, and in what form. That comes afterwards, and scientists are entitled to a moral POV as much as the next person. Even if that moral POV is to treat cannabis the same as any other public health issue.
  • Options
    Andrew1954Andrew1954 Posts: 5,448
    Forum Member
    My opinion has moved on this issue. Broadly libertarian I think it's up to the individual what they do to themselves. Still do. On the other hand I've personally seen the destructive effect cannabis has had on people I know. Anecdotal evidence admittedly, but combine that with reports of studies showing the profoundly damaging affects of canabis on some people's mental health, I'm beginning to suspect that this stuff isn't as benign as we once thought. Time will tell.
Sign In or Register to comment.