From the same comres poll, BBC did well to keep this one out their article.
Half (49%) believe Muslim clerics preaching that violence against the west can be justified are out of touch with mainstream Muslim opinion, while 45% disagree.
I wasn't surprised at all. Of the two Muslims I worked with both told me I'd be going to hell to burn for infinity and the other told me that not only would I burn but all my relatives too. I'd just lost my Nan and he told me several times what awaited her - and it wasn't pleasant at all. Of course I said nothing but it isn't a very pleasant way of life.
if that was me i would have reported them to the boss they cannot get away with that you got in trouble if you said anything about the muslim faith.
I wasn't surprised at all. Of the two Muslims I worked with both told me I'd be going to hell to burn for infinity and the other told me that not only would I burn but all my relatives too. I'd just lost my Nan and he told me several times what awaited her - and it wasn't pleasant at all. Of course I said nothing but it isn't a very pleasant way of life.
I just hope the poll is inaccurate and isn't representative of all Muslims, as it makes for shocking reading if true. Some of those stats are far higher than I would have guessed.
Every muslim-focused opinion poll I've seen paints a similar picture i.e. of a sizeable minority of UK muslims, often numbering in the hundreds of thousands of individuals, who hold anti-Western, violently fundamentalist views.
This new poll shouldn't really surprise anyone. I've been banging on about the figures behind the statistics for ages on here.
NOP found that 25% of British muslims thought the London bombings were "justified". That's 750,000 people.
ICM found that 20% "sympathised" with the London bombers. That's 600,000 people.
Pew Research found that 24% of British muslims thought suicide bombings were "justified". That's 720,000 people.
ICM found that 5% wouldn't report their knowledge of an imminent terrorist attack. That's 150,000 people. (The percentage is 18% for young British muslims.)
Policy Exchange found that 7% "admired" al-Qaeda. That's 210,000 people.
ICM found that 40% of British muslims want Sharia Law in the UK. That's 1,200,000 people.
68% of British muslims supported the arrest and prosecution of those who "insult Islam". That's over 2 million people.
Civitas found that 33% of British muslims asked "strongly agreed that a wife should be forced to obey her husband's bidding"
10% of British muslims supported killing for "dishonour". That's 300,000 people.
Civitas found that only 34% of British muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
Policy Exchange found that 61% of British muslims want homosexuality punished. That's over 180,000 people.
etc. etc. etc. etc.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Islam has no place in a Western society and, despite what Cameron thinks, British values are not Islamic values unless, of course, you're referring to Britain as it was in the Middle Ages.
The size of the minority of Muslims that hold highly unpleasant views has always been the elephant in the room for those that choose to defend Islam, and on many subjects (homosexuality for example), it's well documented that it's far more than just a minority. This stuff has been known for years. Nothing has been done to change attitudes, and the problem has only grown as the number of Muslims has - which is completely logical.
And as far as this poll goes, while "only" a quarter support violence, another poll some years ago showed that 78% thought that blasphemy against Mohammed should result in some form of punishment, so it's really not true to say that the 60+% that didn't support violence are really that much better.
That's not strictly
On the bright side, it seems that's a view most popular with the older generations which, at least, suggests that younger Muslims are getting more moderate.
The size of the minority of Muslims that hold highly unpleasant views has always been the elephant in the room for those that choose to defend Islam, and on many subjects (homosexuality for example), it's well documented that it's far more than just a minority. This stuff has been known for years. Nothing has been done to change attitudes, and the problem has only grown as the number of Muslims has - which is completely logical.
And as far as this poll goes, while "only" a quarter support violence, another poll some years ago showed that 78% thought that blasphemy against Mohammed should result in some form of punishment, so it's really not true to say that the 60+% that didn't support violence are really that much better.
Polling has been surprising consistent on these issues. Apologists will say that 'you can't tell anything by a poll' but in this case there is clearly a significant percentage of British muslims who hold fundamentalist views that are at odds with Western society.
Posts #87 and #88 are spot on. It's funny how the lefties run to the support of Muslims, even though Muslim views can be incredibly right wing (general tolerance, views on homosexuals etc).
You've got to love the mental gymnastics that people go through to try to explain away the fact that a quarter of those polled thought a violent reaction to a CARTOON could be justified; that nearly HALF of respondents thought that hate preachers' justification of violence against "the West" was mainstream opinion; and over a quarter sympathise with the motives of a group of MURDERERS/TERRORISTS!!!
IIRC, the poll in question said that 27% of Muslims have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks.
It doesn't say that number of people agree with the attacks, themselves.
There is a question which specifically asked about whether the attacks were warranted and, apparently, 11% of respondents said they thought the were. On the bright side, it seems that's a view most popular with the older generations which, at least, suggests that younger Muslims are getting more moderate.
Actually polling suggests the exact opposite is true. Young British muslims are far more conservative than their parents.
Nearly a third of 16 to 24-year-olds believed that those converting to another religion should be executed, while less than a fifth of those over 55 believed the same.
Nearly a third of 16 to 24-year-olds believed that those converting to another religion should be executed, while less than a fifth of those over 55 believed the same.
Thats so wrong.. i bet the same would if they became atheist.
Every muslim-focused opinion poll I've seen paints a similar picture i.e. of a sizeable minority of UK muslims, often numbering in the hundreds of thousands of individuals, who hold anti-Western, violently fundamentalist views.
This new poll shouldn't really surprise anyone. I've been banging on about the figures behind the statistics for ages on here.
NOP found that 25% of British muslims thought the London bombings were "justified". That's 750,000 people.
ICM found that 20% "sympathised" with the London bombers. That's 600,000 people.
Pew Research found that 24% of British muslims thought suicide bombings were "justified". That's 720,000 people.
ICM found that 5% wouldn't report their knowledge of an imminent terrorist attack. That's 150,000 people. (The percentage is 18% for young British muslims.)
Policy Exchange found that 7% "admired" al-Qaeda. That's 210,000 people.
ICM found that 40% of British muslims want Sharia Law in the UK. That's 1,200,000 people.
68% of British muslims supported the arrest and prosecution of those who "insult Islam". That's over 2 million people.
Civitas found that 33% of British muslims asked "strongly agreed that a wife should be forced to obey her husband's bidding"
10% of British muslims supported killing for "dishonour". That's 300,000 people.
Civitas found that only 34% of British muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
Policy Exchange found that 61% of British muslims want homosexuality punished. That's over 180,000 people.
etc. etc. etc. etc.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Islam has no place in a Western society and, despite what Cameron thinks, British values are not Islamic values unless, of course, you're referring to Britain as it was in the Middle Ages.
So what are you proposing? Are you saying we should ban the Muslim faith, or expelling anyone from the UK who follows the Muslim faith?
So what are you proposing? Are you saying we should ban the Muslim faith, or expelling anyone from the UK who follows the Muslim faith?
What am I proposing. Nothing, tbh. I'm merely making an observation. The current situation has nothing to do with me. Let the multiculturalists sort it out. It's their mess.
I think that is what they want - an argument. I just smiled and said would you like a cup of tea? It was weird - saying all those things to me and then the same week inviting me over for a meal.
What am I proposing. Nothing, tbh. I'm merely making an observation. The current situation has nothing to do with me. Let the multiculturalists sort it out. It's their mess.
Don't you think as we all live in the UK, and this issue effects the vast majority of us, that we should focus on what to do now rather than focusing on how we got here?
Don't you think as we all live in the UK, and this issue effects the vast majority of us, that we should focus on what to do now rather than focusing on how we got here?
(Just curious btw)
I think those responsible should first stand up and admit their total failure for a start. Some honesty needs to be expressed before anything else can be done. I don't want to hear from the government that 'British values are Islamic values". Until we see an end to such utter nonsense then there is no moving forward.
After that, Islam's presence needs curtailing. It's difficult as the Islamic population is already self-sustaining and growing with each year. Mosques are an obvious point of concern. We need a moratorium on the construction of new mosques and a size limit, and a cessation of Islamic immigrants coming to the UK. We also need to close down Islamic schools immediately and ban any individual or any group that expresses extremist views. Same goes for the wearing of the burqa, etc. I would normally be against banning anything but, in Islam's case, I see little option. Secularism generally should be promoted at every opportunity combined with financial incentives for those wishing to move abroad to countries with cultures they would find more palatable. Disengagement with the Middle East is also a no-brainer (although that is much harder now with the emergence of Islamic State). As I've said before, our dependency on Middle Eastern oil is a disaster and much more needs to be done to ween our society off fossil fuels in general and Middle Eastern oil in particular.
Every muslim-focused opinion poll I've seen paints a similar picture i.e. of a sizeable minority of UK muslims, often numbering in the hundreds of thousands of individuals, who hold anti-Western, violently fundamentalist views.
This new poll shouldn't really surprise anyone. I've been banging on about the figures behind the statistics for ages on here.
NOP found that 25% of British muslims thought the London bombings were "justified". That's 750,000 people.
ICM found that 20% "sympathised" with the London bombers. That's 600,000 people.
Pew Research found that 24% of British muslims thought suicide bombings were "justified". That's 720,000 people.
ICM found that 5% wouldn't report their knowledge of an imminent terrorist attack. That's 150,000 people. (The percentage is 18% for young British muslims.)
Policy Exchange found that 7% "admired" al-Qaeda. That's 210,000 people.
ICM found that 40% of British muslims want Sharia Law in the UK. That's 1,200,000 people.
68% of British muslims supported the arrest and prosecution of those who "insult Islam". That's over 2 million people.
Civitas found that 33% of British muslims asked "strongly agreed that a wife should be forced to obey her husband's bidding"
10% of British muslims supported killing for "dishonour". That's 300,000 people.
Civitas found that only 34% of British muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
Policy Exchange found that 61% of British muslims want homosexuality punished. That's over 180,000 people.
etc. etc. etc. etc.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Islam has no place in a Western society and, despite what Cameron thinks, British values are not Islamic values unless, of course, you're referring to Britain as it was in the Middle Ages.
I guess it's the first poll I have seen reported from our nations biggest news site. It makes it all the more shocking. To most people out there, myself included, sources such as NOP, Pew Research, ICM etc will mean nothing as I/we haven't ever heard of them. The fact that it's come from the BBC, even though the poll size is far smaller than what you've mentioned, will have a more significant impact on a greater number of people. That probably makes me sound really thick!
The dark underbelly of the poll results have been picked up by the Telegraph:
Just because you wouldn't personally go out and murder people, it doesn't make you moderate. We cannot turn a blind eye to the fair-weather supporters of terrorism
This morning the BBC published details of a major poll of the attitudes of Britain’s Muslims. The headline on the front of the BBC website linking to the research states: “Muslims ‘oppose cartoon reprisals’”. This of course relates to attitudes within the Muslim community towards the recent Charlie Hebdo attacks.
It’s a reassuring headline. It’s also wrong. Many Muslims - a majority - do indeed utterly oppose the murderous killings in Paris. But a very, very large number of Muslims don’t. Presented with the statement “I have some sympathy for the motives behind the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris”, 27 seven percent agreed with the statement. A further 2 per cent refused to answer the question. And an additional eight percent said they were unsure whether they had some sympathy or not.
That is a shocking figure. And an utterly shaming one for Britain’s Muslim community. If this poll is accurate, over a quarter of British Muslims overtly sympathise with the motives of those responsible for the cold blooded murder of 16 journalists, police officers and Jews.
I think those responsible should first stand up and admit their total failure for a start. Some honesty needs to be expressed before anything else can be done. I don't want to hear from the government that 'British values are Islamic values". Until we see an end to such utter nonsense then there is no moving forward.
After that, Islam's presence needs curtailing. It's difficult as the Islamic population is already self-sustaining and growing with each year. Mosques are an obvious point of concern. We need a moratorium on the construction of new mosques and a size limit, and a cessation of Islamic immigrants coming to the UK. We also need to close down Islamic schools immediately and ban any individual or any group that expresses extremist views. Same goes for the wearing of the burqa, etc. I would normally be against banning anything but, in Islam's case, I see little option. Secularism generally should be promoted at every opportunity combined with financial incentives for those wishing to move abroad to countries with cultures they would find more palatable. Disengagement with the Middle East is also a no-brainer (although that is much harder now with the emergence of Islamic State). As I've said before, our dependency on Middle Eastern oil is a disaster and much more needs to be done to ween our society off fossil fuels in general and Middle Eastern oil in particular.
I'm of the same thought that normally, I wouldn't be for banning anything, but with Islam, I think we have to. Our ideas seem quite close.
I think the majority of people support the idea of no faith schools in the UK.
The burqa should also be banned, because it limits communication.
We shouldn't allow any further mosques to be built.
I think our current involvement in the ME is about right given the circumstances.
I completely agree with you that our dependency on ME oil really screws us up. We really need to invest in other forms of energy as quickly as possible.
I like the idea of financial encouragements for Muslims to leave the UK too. I wouldn't mind my taxes supporting people moving to one of the Islamic countries that are more in line with the way they want to live - especially if it means getting rid of extremists.
I also would like to see Muslims who have shown to have links with terrorists groups to be immediately deported without a British passport. If they become stateless, that's their problem.
And sadly, I don't want any more Muslims coming into the UK for any reason - even if they are refugees. This is because I don't think the Western lifestyle is suited to their Islamic lifestyle, so I think it's better they go to a neighboring country. A short term work visa could be offered if a Muslim has a skill that we need.
Comments
Half (49%) believe Muslim clerics preaching that violence against the west can be justified are out of touch with mainstream Muslim opinion, while 45% disagree.
What are people meant to do not take notice of poll like this and negative parts of the muslims and move on>:(
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2055348
if that was me i would have reported them to the boss they cannot get away with that you got in trouble if you said anything about the muslim faith.
there's already a thread on this - double the threads does not equal double the light shed on the topic.
complain to management. That's harassment.
Most managers and HR people would shit themselves and run a mile from that.
Every muslim-focused opinion poll I've seen paints a similar picture i.e. of a sizeable minority of UK muslims, often numbering in the hundreds of thousands of individuals, who hold anti-Western, violently fundamentalist views.
This new poll shouldn't really surprise anyone. I've been banging on about the figures behind the statistics for ages on here.
NOP found that 25% of British muslims thought the London bombings were "justified". That's 750,000 people.
ICM found that 20% "sympathised" with the London bombers. That's 600,000 people.
Pew Research found that 24% of British muslims thought suicide bombings were "justified". That's 720,000 people.
ICM found that 5% wouldn't report their knowledge of an imminent terrorist attack. That's 150,000 people. (The percentage is 18% for young British muslims.)
Policy Exchange found that 7% "admired" al-Qaeda. That's 210,000 people.
ICM found that 40% of British muslims want Sharia Law in the UK. That's 1,200,000 people.
68% of British muslims supported the arrest and prosecution of those who "insult Islam". That's over 2 million people.
Civitas found that 33% of British muslims asked "strongly agreed that a wife should be forced to obey her husband's bidding"
10% of British muslims supported killing for "dishonour". That's 300,000 people.
Civitas found that only 34% of British muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
Policy Exchange found that 61% of British muslims want homosexuality punished. That's over 180,000 people.
etc. etc. etc. etc.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Islam has no place in a Western society and, despite what Cameron thinks, British values are not Islamic values unless, of course, you're referring to Britain as it was in the Middle Ages.
The size of the minority of Muslims that hold highly unpleasant views has always been the elephant in the room for those that choose to defend Islam, and on many subjects (homosexuality for example), it's well documented that it's far more than just a minority. This stuff has been known for years. Nothing has been done to change attitudes, and the problem has only grown as the number of Muslims has - which is completely logical.
And as far as this poll goes, while "only" a quarter support violence, another poll some years ago showed that 78% thought that blasphemy against Mohammed should result in some form of punishment, so it's really not true to say that the 60+% that didn't support violence are really that much better.
Oh, s o that's why so many go jihading in Syria.
Polling has been surprising consistent on these issues. Apologists will say that 'you can't tell anything by a poll' but in this case there is clearly a significant percentage of British muslims who hold fundamentalist views that are at odds with Western society.
Depressing!
Actually polling suggests the exact opposite is true. Young British muslims are far more conservative than their parents.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/jan/29/thinktanks.religion
Thats so wrong.. i bet the same would if they became atheist.
So what are you proposing? Are you saying we should ban the Muslim faith, or expelling anyone from the UK who follows the Muslim faith?
What am I proposing. Nothing, tbh. I'm merely making an observation. The current situation has nothing to do with me. Let the multiculturalists sort it out. It's their mess.
I think that is what they want - an argument. I just smiled and said would you like a cup of tea? It was weird - saying all those things to me and then the same week inviting me over for a meal.
Don't you think as we all live in the UK, and this issue effects the vast majority of us, that we should focus on what to do now rather than focusing on how we got here?
(Just curious btw)
I think those responsible should first stand up and admit their total failure for a start. Some honesty needs to be expressed before anything else can be done. I don't want to hear from the government that 'British values are Islamic values". Until we see an end to such utter nonsense then there is no moving forward.
After that, Islam's presence needs curtailing. It's difficult as the Islamic population is already self-sustaining and growing with each year. Mosques are an obvious point of concern. We need a moratorium on the construction of new mosques and a size limit, and a cessation of Islamic immigrants coming to the UK. We also need to close down Islamic schools immediately and ban any individual or any group that expresses extremist views. Same goes for the wearing of the burqa, etc. I would normally be against banning anything but, in Islam's case, I see little option. Secularism generally should be promoted at every opportunity combined with financial incentives for those wishing to move abroad to countries with cultures they would find more palatable. Disengagement with the Middle East is also a no-brainer (although that is much harder now with the emergence of Islamic State). As I've said before, our dependency on Middle Eastern oil is a disaster and much more needs to be done to ween our society off fossil fuels in general and Middle Eastern oil in particular.
I guess it's the first poll I have seen reported from our nations biggest news site. It makes it all the more shocking. To most people out there, myself included, sources such as NOP, Pew Research, ICM etc will mean nothing as I/we haven't ever heard of them. The fact that it's come from the BBC, even though the poll size is far smaller than what you've mentioned, will have a more significant impact on a greater number of people. That probably makes me sound really thick!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11434695/Over-a-quarter-of-British-Muslims-have-sympathy-for-the-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.-That-is-far-too-many.html
I'm of the same thought that normally, I wouldn't be for banning anything, but with Islam, I think we have to. Our ideas seem quite close.
I think the majority of people support the idea of no faith schools in the UK.
The burqa should also be banned, because it limits communication.
We shouldn't allow any further mosques to be built.
I think our current involvement in the ME is about right given the circumstances.
I completely agree with you that our dependency on ME oil really screws us up. We really need to invest in other forms of energy as quickly as possible.
I like the idea of financial encouragements for Muslims to leave the UK too. I wouldn't mind my taxes supporting people moving to one of the Islamic countries that are more in line with the way they want to live - especially if it means getting rid of extremists.
I also would like to see Muslims who have shown to have links with terrorists groups to be immediately deported without a British passport. If they become stateless, that's their problem.
And sadly, I don't want any more Muslims coming into the UK for any reason - even if they are refugees. This is because I don't think the Western lifestyle is suited to their Islamic lifestyle, so I think it's better they go to a neighboring country. A short term work visa could be offered if a Muslim has a skill that we need.
I would like to see if Huffington or the Guardian can manage to put a positive spin on it.
Well the BBC managed it so I'm sure the Guardian will have no problem