Add coverage into that and I don't think anyone is going to argue with you. If we use the history of the 3G years as a base.. There are only two real options!
Technically on coverage you have to add in O2 as they are legally obligated to have amazing 4G coverage. But I completely agree with what you are saying It obvious Vodafone and O2 haven't changed all about extras and publicity as always. Though I must admit I did think O2 went a bit over the top.
Add coverage into that and I don't think anyone is going to argue with you. If we use the history of the 3G years as a base.. There are only two real options!
First reports are starting to come through of speeds, and surprisingly are the opposite of what I was expected!
O2 - averaging 45Mbps download & 15Mbps upload
Voda - averaging 10Mbps download & 2.5Mbps upload - some reporting speeds of only 8Mbps download and only 1 bar of signal wherever you are in London.
Have Voda rushed the rollout to launch the same date as O2 I wonder?
No they havnt, its the same kit running both.... Literally the same base station does both O2 and voda, they share the same backhaul too.
No they havnt, its the same kit running both.... Literally the same base station does both O2 and voda, they share the same backhaul too.
That's not what the o2 rep told me today. He said it was a site share only (project beacon). Just the land rental costs.
No UPS/Cooling/Back-haul/Transmitter/Antenna sharing at all. Which surprised me a little as I would have though that would be where the savings were likely to be found.
That's not what the o2 rep told me today. He said it was a site share only (project beacon). Just the land rental costs.
No UPS/Cooling/Back-haul/Transmitter/Antenna sharing at all. Which surprised me a little as I would have though that would be where the savings were likely to be found.
That does actually make sense as I know O2 signed backhaul agreements with both Virgin and BT. Vodafone are likely using cable and wireless worldwide for backhaul. So speeds and coverage will likely come down to who has the best kit and best equipment and best backhaul between the two networks well on 800MHz anyway. Where as on EE/Three it theory once both have deployed full [Both at 98%]. It should be very similar coverage. EE having faster speeds simply because of having more spectrum.
Technically on coverage you have to add in O2 as they are legally obligated to have amazing 4G coverage. But I completely agree with what you are saying It obvious Vodafone and O2 haven't changed all about extras and publicity as always. Though I must admit I did think O2 went a bit over the top.
O2 were obligated to meet coverage targets for 3G too, but they didn't (hence getting told off by Ofcom).
Their target is pretty easy though, isn't it? Something like 98% in 5 years' time? EE are going to do that next year aren't they?
O2 were obligated to meet coverage targets for 3G too, but they didn't (hence getting told off by Ofcom).
Yep, they were the only one that was late by around 6 months in reaching the 80% required in 2007 by the licences. They didn't face any real penalty from Ofcom though and none of the other networks complained.
Their target is pretty easy though, isn't it? Something like 98% in 5 years' time? EE are going to do that next year aren't they?
It's 98% indoor based on Ofcom's model. EE's claim for next year is much less (98% outdoor). You can get to around 98% outdoor with around 80% indoor. In fact O2's 2G network today doesn't reach 98% indoor.
Yep, they were the only one that was late by around 6 months in reaching the 80% required in 2007 by the licences. They didn't face any real penalty from Ofcom though and none of the other networks complained.
It's 98% indoor based on Ofcom's model. EE's claim for next year is much less (98% outdoor). You can get to around 98% outdoor with around 80% indoor. In fact O2's 2G network today doesn't reach 98% indoor.
And thats using 900 v's EE's near similar 2G coverage using 1800.
Bare in mind and i'm sure i'll get tired of it EE 98% outdoor is soley using 1800 for LTE. Plans are still ongoing for 800 due to the extra work needed to Orange/MBNL sites to accommodate new antennas. So expect EE not to be far behind or at a similar level indoor come 2015.
EE's 2G is at a similar coverage level to O2's but EE are unlikely to use 800 on every 1800 mast site i'm told, which if i am honest is a bit disappointing as it would be bloody amazing coverage!
And thats using 900 v's EE's near similar 2G coverage using 1800.
Bare in mind and i'm sure i'll get tired of it EE 98% outdoor is soley using 1800 for LTE. Plans are still ongoing for 800 due to the extra work needed to Orange/MBNL sites to accommodate new antennas. So expect EE not to be far behind or at a similar level indoor come 2015.
EE's 2G is at a similar coverage level to O2's but EE are unlikely to use 800 on every 1800 mast site i'm told, which if i am honest is a bit disappointing as it would be bloody amazing coverage!
Surely they would have to eventually else Carrier Aggregation would not work or are they intending do that only in certain areas.
Being realistic it will take a while for O2, Vodafone and 3 to get 4G rolled out and to refine it to make it perform well.
Initial experiences are interesting but are fairly limited in terms of making a decision on what might eventually be the performance of a network once it starts to gain users and is established properly.
O2 and Vodafone's 4G London performance will probably not be typical once lots of users make use of it, same applies to 3 when they launch.
Devon: Not quite sure how you came to the conclusion that Three will have a faster 800 network than EE.. Three will actually have more phones active for LTE if they activate every sim as stated... Three's LTE equipped user base is larger than EE4G sign up... so in theory it would be more congested on Three's 800.
Not that it matters as both will only have 1800 LTE for a good while yet..
Yeah, sorry. Got my numbers mixed up. You are correct.
It's all Thine's fault of course. He mentioned Wine last night (after posting some dubious posts.. Haha, only joking) and that caused me to open the bottle I had saved for tonight.
Now I've had to go and get more! it is Friday after all!
EE's 2G is at a similar coverage level to O2's but EE are unlikely to use 800 on every 1800 mast site i'm told, which if i am honest is a bit disappointing as it would be bloody amazing coverage!
Yes that would be disappointing. What a bummer!
I'm sure they'll do mine though. Dirty great 30 Metre tower in the middle of nowhere with about a 6 mile diameter coverage footprint!
Pretty sure most of the rural ones will be done, particularly down here where its all hills and valleys. I guess a lot of urban ones won't need it where the network is dense. But surely it would increase capacity a lot from a given cell, assuming fibre back-haul?
That's not what the o2 rep told me today. He said it was a site share only (project beacon). Just the land rental costs.
No UPS/Cooling/Back-haul/Transmitter/Antenna sharing at all. Which surprised me a little as I would have though that would be where the savings were likely to be found.
O2 rep is wrong then. I've been installing it in London since March so would hope that I'd know.
Ericsson equipment, one cabinet that houses two 'control' units, 6 radio units (2 per sector) and a transmission unit.
One control unit is set for VF, the other for O2. The transmission unit goes back to the backhaul via one cat6 cable or optical cable and plug into the same backhaul unit.
Antenna are also shared, as are the feeders up the towers.
O2 rep is wrong then. I've been installing it in London since March so would hope that I'd know.
Ericsson equipment, one cabinet that houses two 'control' units, 6 radio units (2 per sector) and a transmission unit.
One control unit is set for VF, the other for O2. The transmission unit goes back to the backhaul via one cat6 cable or optical cable and plug into the same backhaul unit.
Antenna are also shared, as are the feeders up the towers.
It's very clever stuff
Is it fibre up the tower to the cells like the Verizon towers in the US?
O2 rep is wrong then. I've been installing it in London since March so would hope that I'd know.
Ericsson equipment, one cabinet that houses two 'control' units, 6 radio units (2 per sector) and a transmission unit.
One control unit is set for VF, the other for O2. The transmission unit goes back to the backhaul via one cat6 cable or optical cable and plug into the same backhaul unit.
Antenna are also shared, as are the feeders up the towers.
It's very clever stuff
So ALL the same kit but the two "control" units separate out the VF and O2 spectrum.
Is it fibre up the tower to the cells like the Verizon towers in the US?
Asfaik all networks use fibre to rru's (remote radio units) under certain circumstances.... So yes, have seen sites that use fibre to the antenna system and also plenty that use traditional coax.
natbike: You mean you actually listened to a O2 rep... Sorry Guru? :eek:
JP: So the backhaul isn't really C&W in most places then... More like the core network is C&W and backhaul is usually FVM/BT?
The ones I have seen are using fiber from BT or microwave links but there has been a recently installed C&W unit that the LTE will be swung over to at some point. That should give even better speeds.
O2 rep is wrong then. I've been installing it in London since March so would hope that I'd know.
Ericsson equipment, one cabinet that houses two 'control' units, 6 radio units (2 per sector) and a transmission unit.
One control unit is set for VF, the other for O2. The transmission unit goes back to the backhaul via one cat6 cable or optical cable and plug into the same backhaul unit.
Antenna are also shared, as are the feeders up the towers.
It's very clever stuff
It wouldn't be the first time a sales rep has been completely wrong. As I said, it did seem to be a strange integration concept, missing the massive savings available with relatively little effort spent.
I guess sales people will say anything to place themselves above the competition, factual or not.
Comments
Technically on coverage you have to add in O2 as they are legally obligated to have amazing 4G coverage. But I completely agree with what you are saying It obvious Vodafone and O2 haven't changed all about extras and publicity as always. Though I must admit I did think O2 went a bit over the top.
Asda Mobile and Lebara?
No they havnt, its the same kit running both.... Literally the same base station does both O2 and voda, they share the same backhaul too.
That's not what the o2 rep told me today. He said it was a site share only (project beacon). Just the land rental costs.
No UPS/Cooling/Back-haul/Transmitter/Antenna sharing at all. Which surprised me a little as I would have though that would be where the savings were likely to be found.
That does actually make sense as I know O2 signed backhaul agreements with both Virgin and BT. Vodafone are likely using cable and wireless worldwide for backhaul. So speeds and coverage will likely come down to who has the best kit and best equipment and best backhaul between the two networks well on 800MHz anyway. Where as on EE/Three it theory once both have deployed full [Both at 98%]. It should be very similar coverage. EE having faster speeds simply because of having more spectrum.
O2 were obligated to meet coverage targets for 3G too, but they didn't (hence getting told off by Ofcom).
Their target is pretty easy though, isn't it? Something like 98% in 5 years' time? EE are going to do that next year aren't they?
It's 98% indoor based on Ofcom's model. EE's claim for next year is much less (98% outdoor). You can get to around 98% outdoor with around 80% indoor. In fact O2's 2G network today doesn't reach 98% indoor.
And thats using 900 v's EE's near similar 2G coverage using 1800.
Bare in mind and i'm sure i'll get tired of it EE 98% outdoor is soley using 1800 for LTE. Plans are still ongoing for 800 due to the extra work needed to Orange/MBNL sites to accommodate new antennas. So expect EE not to be far behind or at a similar level indoor come 2015.
EE's 2G is at a similar coverage level to O2's but EE are unlikely to use 800 on every 1800 mast site i'm told, which if i am honest is a bit disappointing as it would be bloody amazing coverage!
Surely they would have to eventually else Carrier Aggregation would not work or are they intending do that only in certain areas.
Initial experiences are interesting but are fairly limited in terms of making a decision on what might eventually be the performance of a network once it starts to gain users and is established properly.
O2 and Vodafone's 4G London performance will probably not be typical once lots of users make use of it, same applies to 3 when they launch.
Yeah, sorry. Got my numbers mixed up. You are correct.
It's all Thine's fault of course. He mentioned Wine last night (after posting some dubious posts.. Haha, only joking) and that caused me to open the bottle I had saved for tonight.
Now I've had to go and get more! it is Friday after all!
Yes that would be disappointing. What a bummer!
I'm sure they'll do mine though. Dirty great 30 Metre tower in the middle of nowhere with about a 6 mile diameter coverage footprint!
Pretty sure most of the rural ones will be done, particularly down here where its all hills and valleys. I guess a lot of urban ones won't need it where the network is dense. But surely it would increase capacity a lot from a given cell, assuming fibre back-haul?
on a 4G voda plan tk get the free Spotify, but not in a 4G area.
O2 rep is wrong then. I've been installing it in London since March so would hope that I'd know.
Ericsson equipment, one cabinet that houses two 'control' units, 6 radio units (2 per sector) and a transmission unit.
One control unit is set for VF, the other for O2. The transmission unit goes back to the backhaul via one cat6 cable or optical cable and plug into the same backhaul unit.
Antenna are also shared, as are the feeders up the towers.
It's very clever stuff
Is it fibre up the tower to the cells like the Verizon towers in the US?
So ALL the same kit but the two "control" units separate out the VF and O2 spectrum.
Asfaik all networks use fibre to rru's (remote radio units) under certain circumstances.... So yes, have seen sites that use fibre to the antenna system and also plenty that use traditional coax.
JP: So the backhaul isn't really C&W in most places then... More like the core network is C&W and backhaul is usually FVM/BT?
only the VF CEO claimed they are using Vodafone Fixed (C&W) to replace the old providers for the last mile.
The ones I have seen are using fiber from BT or microwave links but there has been a recently installed C&W unit that the LTE will be swung over to at some point. That should give even better speeds.
Also seen L2600 trial sites too.
The country is actually split into four (or five) areas for Beacon,
Ive mainly seen the VF areas
I guess sales people will say anything to place themselves above the competition, factual or not.