Where are you then and what about non European continentals?
Wales.
We have a nice Chinese community, although I'd say many of them are students at the University. They have given us a fabulous restaurant though.
Wales has a history of immigration when it was an industrial powerhouse. People came to places like Merthyr and Port Talbot. Then there's the port towns/cities of Cardiff and Newport too.
The only thing shocking about this item is that there's been an outbreak of innumeracy in Oxford's ivory towers, rather than the less than surprising news that there are more people from the 2004 EU enlargement states here at the 2011 census than in the 2001 one.
Ironic that they bring forward Merthyr to highlight whatever it is their mangled statistics purport to show, compared to the area's heyday in the early 1800's this is small beer, with a much larger population swelled by migrants (admittedly mostly Irish), as the ironworks grew and the town was the biggest in Wales.
Only conclusion I can draw is that it is the successive waves of immigration and our tolerance of it that puts the Great into Great Britain, and there's nothing to suggest this latest chapter is going to be any different.
seems like lots of people on this thread miss understand what is meant by multicultural in this context ,and the result of these policies
far from engendering a 'happy melting pot' in the UK, it legitimises separateness between communities, it's divisive and leads to what in effect is ghettoisation.
supposedly its purpose is to preserve cultural values, but the one culture which is damaged by this is Britishness. One of the core values of britishness was that, sooner or later by one means or another, people who came here where excepted into our communities. They integrated. Multiculturalism places a big obstacle in the way of that process, indeed derails it.
I agree with all of that. Multiculturalism is the very antithesis of integration, and the opposite of integration is separation.
The only thing shocking about this item is that there's been an outbreak of innumeracy in Oxford's ivory towers, rather than the less than surprising news that there are more people from the 2004 EU enlargement states here at the 2011 census than in the 2001 one.
Ironic that they bring forward Merthyr to highlight whatever it is their mangled statistics purport to show, compared to the area's heyday in the early 1800's this is small beer, with a much larger population swelled by migrants (admittedly mostly Irish), as the ironworks grew and the town was the biggest in Wales.
Only conclusion I can draw is that it is the successive waves of immigration and our tolerance of it that puts the Great into Great Britain, and there's nothing to suggest this latest chapter is going to be any different.
Mrs K H actually, but let's not worry about that!
They had a Merthyr exhibition on the news yesterday. As well as Irish, they mentioned Spanish and Italian (everyone knows about the Italians in Wales!).
Quite a few more Irish settled around Aberavon, hence Aberavon Green Stars, a catholic rugby club.
The Polish have been in the UK since before the 1990s. They fought for us in WW2 and have a monument in North West London for it. It even lends its name to a nearby road junction.
Are you both suggesting that the Welsh have an intrinsic quality about them that makes them more friendly?
If so, that's racism isn't it?
Attributing an inherent trait because of what type of people they are, pretty sure that's the definition.
No, I'd call that an appreciation of the Welsh culture.
Yay That's what I love about being Welsh and in Wales. I love sitting at the bus stop chatting to people.
Actually I don't. I don't always wish to discuss the weather when waiting for a bus,it depends on my mood. But I would rather people were friendly than not.:)
Are you both suggesting that the Welsh have an intrinsic quality about them that makes them more friendly?
If so, that's racism isn't it?
Attributing an inherent trait because of what type of people they are, pretty sure that's the definition.
Now I don't believe in that nonsense.
So why are they 'more friendly'?
Could it be that they come from long standing settled communities which engenders a confidence that allows them to be more trusting.
But according to you both, that quality of community needs no protection and will carry on regardless of how much pressure is exerted on the community.
And will carry on regardless of any rejection of friendly overtures from those who join the community.
I mean really, do you and others see themselves as superior to the hundreds of thousands of Londoners who have left London and others who have left cities because they have witnessed their communities being ripped apart?
Have witnessed their schools failing to cope with the influx.
Have witnessed the crime associated with imported poverty.
Have witnessed their health service they are dependent on failing in the basics.
Have witnessed housing becoming more and more inaccessible.
.
.
I don't think the welsh are 'superior' I don't recall claiming that. In the smaller towns they are certainly more trusting bordering on naive and as a result yes they are more chatty and friendly in general than the English. Thats not racist if it is merely stating a fact.
Cardiff and Swansea are not at all like the small towns. Cardiff is highly multicultural like London but retains it's friendliness. Cardiff Uni is one of the most popular uni for foreign students and their influence has been nothing put positive and the Welsh are very accepting of them.
I don't accept that because immigrants move into a country that country loses its own identity. The original people still remain and so does their culture. That is what has happened in Cardiff at least. The problems listed above has also occured in Wales but thats due to government failings not because immigrants are forcing their culture on others.
I don't accept that because immigrants move into a country that country loses its own identity. The original people still remain and so does their culture. That is what has happened in Cardiff at least. The problems listed above has also occured in Wales but thats due to government failings not because immigrants are forcing their culture on others.
Most cultures and traditions will change over time.
The problem isn't the loss of identity, aka the adoption of other cultures and traditions, it is the speed of which it has been happening in the last 20-30 years or so in the UK. Most people like me, I suspect, don't like rapid change in terms of absorbing new cultures and identities. And there are more and more people from abroad that seem to be reluctant to integrate into present cultures and traditions, e.g. by learning fluent English. How, these people survive without knowing at least good English is anybody's guess, but the UK government and/or councils are not helping matters, by publishing multilingual leaflets for long term stayers, thus giving them less incentive to learn the lingo.
I said to a bunch of drunk people in a chippy in north wales that it was rude to speak in a foreign language... didn't go down too well lol.
had a riot van outside :eek:
If I said that around here in Luton, there would be a riot van around here every bloody night and I'd get arrested on racism charges. Some of my tenants talk in Urdu/Punjabi when I am with them in person with mutual friends of theirs on a social call at times, even though they can all talk perfectly good English. I got used to all this when I visited Germany and Switzerland with one or either of my parents and was always having to ask 'What was that, what was that?' I just sit there now and proverbially twiddled my thumbs and roll my eyes. At least in my relatives case, they had an excuse, as most of them didn't speak much English, only 4 of my cousins. Plus, that was in a foreign country, not just down the road in the UK where I live.
Oh I don't know; Spain, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, America, Guyana, even Jamaica, all multicultural, and in the first 5 cases, all subject to extensive immigration from all over the world, including the UK. Sorry to burst your bubble, pity the facts don't measure up to your prejudices.
The difference being is that Australia, New Zealand, Canada and America (aka the USA) for example, have the space in terms of land area and those countries are more fussy about whom they let in, not just any Tom, Dick and Harry like the UK.
I'm perfectly happy for Wales and Scotland to accept as many immigrants as possible, rather than England. It might actually cut down England's population (which IMO is at bursting point in terms of infrastructure). It's called 'doing a France', where many unwanted immigrants are shuffled on to another country or in the case of Wales and Scotland another dependent territory.
Comments
Wales.
We have a nice Chinese community, although I'd say many of them are students at the University. They have given us a fabulous restaurant though.
Wales has a history of immigration when it was an industrial powerhouse. People came to places like Merthyr and Port Talbot. Then there's the port towns/cities of Cardiff and Newport too.
The only thing shocking about this item is that there's been an outbreak of innumeracy in Oxford's ivory towers, rather than the less than surprising news that there are more people from the 2004 EU enlargement states here at the 2011 census than in the 2001 one.
Ironic that they bring forward Merthyr to highlight whatever it is their mangled statistics purport to show, compared to the area's heyday in the early 1800's this is small beer, with a much larger population swelled by migrants (admittedly mostly Irish), as the ironworks grew and the town was the biggest in Wales.
Only conclusion I can draw is that it is the successive waves of immigration and our tolerance of it that puts the Great into Great Britain, and there's nothing to suggest this latest chapter is going to be any different.
I agree with all of that. Multiculturalism is the very antithesis of integration, and the opposite of integration is separation.
Have you never travelled to Cardiff and back on an international day?
Mrs K H actually, but let's not worry about that!
They had a Merthyr exhibition on the news yesterday. As well as Irish, they mentioned Spanish and Italian (everyone knows about the Italians in Wales!).
Quite a few more Irish settled around Aberavon, hence Aberavon Green Stars, a catholic rugby club.
The Polish have been in the UK since before the 1990s. They fought for us in WW2 and have a monument in North West London for it. It even lends its name to a nearby road junction.
No, I'd call that an appreciation of the Welsh culture.
Actually I don't.
I don't think the welsh are 'superior' I don't recall claiming that. In the smaller towns they are certainly more trusting bordering on naive and as a result yes they are more chatty and friendly in general than the English. Thats not racist if it is merely stating a fact.
Cardiff and Swansea are not at all like the small towns. Cardiff is highly multicultural like London but retains it's friendliness. Cardiff Uni is one of the most popular uni for foreign students and their influence has been nothing put positive and the Welsh are very accepting of them.
I don't accept that because immigrants move into a country that country loses its own identity. The original people still remain and so does their culture. That is what has happened in Cardiff at least. The problems listed above has also occured in Wales but thats due to government failings not because immigrants are forcing their culture on others.
Most cultures and traditions will change over time.
The problem isn't the loss of identity, aka the adoption of other cultures and traditions, it is the speed of which it has been happening in the last 20-30 years or so in the UK. Most people like me, I suspect, don't like rapid change in terms of absorbing new cultures and identities. And there are more and more people from abroad that seem to be reluctant to integrate into present cultures and traditions, e.g. by learning fluent English. How, these people survive without knowing at least good English is anybody's guess, but the UK government and/or councils are not helping matters, by publishing multilingual leaflets for long term stayers, thus giving them less incentive to learn the lingo.
If I said that around here in Luton, there would be a riot van around here every bloody night and I'd get arrested on racism charges. Some of my tenants talk in Urdu/Punjabi when I am with them in person with mutual friends of theirs on a social call at times, even though they can all talk perfectly good English. I got used to all this when I visited Germany and Switzerland with one or either of my parents and was always having to ask 'What was that, what was that?' I just sit there now and proverbially twiddled my thumbs and roll my eyes. At least in my relatives case, they had an excuse, as most of them didn't speak much English, only 4 of my cousins. Plus, that was in a foreign country, not just down the road in the UK where I live.
The difference being is that Australia, New Zealand, Canada and America (aka the USA) for example, have the space in terms of land area and those countries are more fussy about whom they let in, not just any Tom, Dick and Harry like the UK.
I'm perfectly happy for Wales and Scotland to accept as many immigrants as possible, rather than England. It might actually cut down England's population (which IMO is at bursting point in terms of infrastructure). It's called 'doing a France', where many unwanted immigrants are shuffled on to another country or in the case of Wales and Scotland another dependent territory.