Did I say that? I don't think so. I think I presented my opinion. Not specify a non-existent law or say it was acceptable to anyone else but my own.
I hate doing this "push-glasses-up, 'I think you'll find...' in a nasal voice" routine but I don't think that is what I said.
By the way do you defend the right of a home-owner to defend against burglars? This is in the same area as that.
Oh another by the way, it's not clear if a stabbing actually occurred.
They have the right to protect their property and defend themselves. Did the EDL have knives or guns or just shouted abuse?
They shouted abuse, the staff jumped over the counter and chased them with knives, only later did the come back and smash a fridge. A call to the police would be sufficient.
London Kebab shops are notorious places for drunken night clubbers to hang out at two in the morning. Are you seriously saying this doesn't happen all the time.
The difference is the Turkish workers took exception to them, because they were EDL hooligans.
They have the right to protect their property and defend themselves. Did the EDL have knives or guns or just shouted abuse?
They shouted abuse, the staff jumped over the counter and chased them with knives, only later did the come back and smash a fridge. A call to the police would be sufficient.
London Kebab shops are notorious places for drunken night clubbers to hang out at two in the morning. Are you seriously saying this doesn't happen all the time.
The difference is the Turkish workers took exception to them, because they were EDL hooligans.
Er...They smashed up the shop which shows extreme violent tendencies, the shop owners were protecting themselves and their property. Something the EDL would support if the skin colour of the owners was white.
If it were me in the scenario I'm not going to let some lowlife smash up my shop. Not a chance. I'll defend my property. It would be the same for a burglar, a drunkard or an EDL supporter.
If they had been stabbed to death then sure, laws have been broken. We've not even established if they were stabbed right now. If it's in the middle of the night, police at least 10 mins away and you're in a potentially life-threatening situation then you have to take action. Appropriate action. Measured action. How come the shop owners didn't chase them down and stab them to death? Because they were defending themselves and nothing more.
If it were me in the scenario I'm not going to let some lowlife smash up my shop. Not a chance. I'll defend my property. It would be the same for a burglar, a drunkard or an EDL supporter.
If they had been stabbed to death then sure, laws have been broken. We've not even established if they were stabbed right now. If it's in the middle of the night, police at least 10 mins away and you're in a potentially life-threatening situation then you have to take action. Appropriate action. Measured action. How come the shop owners didn't chase them down and stab them to death? Because they were defending themselves and nothing more.
After an Orange Order parade has finished, two EDL members, one a former British Army soldier, decide to engage in a racist attack on Turkish owned shop...
I am glad that these racist EDL troublemakers got their come uppance in the form of a custodial sentence. Judge Statman should be congratulated on this sentence which sends a clear message that racist and islamophobic violence will not be tolerated in the UK.
Unless we get more details about the incident, all we have is the facts before us. And they show a continuing dangerous risk to society in these EDL supporters.
Er...They smashed up the shop which shows extreme violent tendencies, the shop owners were protecting themselves and their property. Something the EDL would support if the skin colour of the owners was white.
I thought the fridge only got smashed after the knife incident, when the men returned.
I read the OP's opening post, but didn't follow the link.
In it he says, "Wayne Edwards came off the worst and needed five stitches in a wound to his head.".
Maybe the OP should have made the source of the injuries more clear. Knives, chase and head wound, clearly suggest he was attacked with the kebab knife, which is more like a sword.
Or he was hit by glass from the window they smashed? Or he fell over and hit his head? Maybe he was hit by one of the kebab shop employees knives in which case the police would quite rightly investigate, but it doesn't say that in the article and they did (which some on here will say is because he's white of course).
I am glad that these racist EDL troublemakers got their come uppance in the form of a custodial sentence. Judge Statman should be congratulated on this sentence which sends a clear message that racist and islamophobic violence will not be tolerated in the UK.
I'd much rather the message that no violence will be tolerated was sent out.
Unless we get more details about the incident, all we have is the facts before us. And they show a continuing dangerous risk to society in these EDL supporters.
A group that formed in response to the perception of dangerous Muslim radicals having a free reign in the UK!
I don't disagree that EDL are mostly just football hooligans and thugs, they are. Its just I also believe UAF and MAC are a bunch of thugs too, and racist abuse, doesn't give people the right to attack other people with weopans.
They have the right to defend themselves and their shop. Neither of which was threatened during the initial incident. They must have drunks their at 2am all the time, its almost inevitable if you run a fast food shop and are open when the pubs and night clubs empty.
They attacked the EDL, most likely not because they were just common or garden drunks, they attacked them because they were perceived to be anti Islamic and the shop owners were almost certainly Muslims.
You are saying victims of verbal racism have the right to stab people, interesting!
You've assumed an awful lot throughout this thread.
There is no indication in the article that the EDL member's head wound was caused by the Turks. From what I've read, the Turks merely brandished knives to scare the racists away. The thugs returned with reinforcements and weapons of their own which they used to smash up parts of the kebab shop.
Has it occurred to you that their injuries were self-inflicted?
You often complain (quite rightly) about the human rights of criminals overriding the right of innocent people to protect themselves and their property by using reasonable force. That's what happened here. It just so happens that on this occasion, the innocents were Muslims and the intruders were EDL members, and you find that difficult to swallow.
I am glad that these racist EDL troublemakers got their come uppance in the form of a custodial sentence. Judge Statman should be congratulated on this sentence which sends a clear message that racist and islamophobic violence will not be tolerated in the UK.
Racist or anti Islamic?
Judge Philip Statman was shown CCTV film showing the drunk brothers banging on the counter and chanting "EDL".
Where's the racism here? Insulting a religion or its followers is not racist!
People have started to say that people are being racist against the travellers too. All the travellers I have seen so far are white, so I don't quite understand how that works either.
A group that formed in response to the perception of dangerous Muslim radicals having a free reign in the UK!
I don't disagree that EDL are mostly just football hooligans and thugs, they are. Its just I also believe UAF and MAC are a bunch of thugs too, and racist abuse, doesn't give people the right to attack other people with weopans.
They have the right to defend themselves and their shop. Neither of which was threatened during the initial incident. They must have drunks their at 2am all the time, its almost inevitable if you run a fast food shop and are open when the pubs and night clubs empty.
They attacked the EDL, most likely not because they were just common or garden drunks, they attacked them because they were perceived to be anti Islamic and the shop owners were almost certainly Muslims.
Yes those groups are bad as each other.
The EDL supporters in that shop are responsible for their own actions. They broke the law.
You've assumed an awful lot throughout this thread.
There is no indication in the article that the EDL member's head wound was caused by the Turks. From what I've read, the Turks merely brandished knives to scare the racists away. The thugs returned with reinforcements and weapons of their own which they used to smash up parts of the kebab shop.
Has it occurred to you that their injuries were self-inflicted?
You often complain (quite rightly) about the human rights of criminals overriding the right of innocent people to protect themselves and their property by using reasonable force. That's what happened here. It just so happens that on this occasion, the innocents were Muslims and the intruders were EDL members, and you find that difficult to swallow.
Yes, but they weren't looting their shop, or breaking in to their house were they. They were rowdy and drunk customers. Have you every been to a Kebab Shop at 2am?
The staff were Turkish and the customers EDL supporters, who are known to target radical Islam.
The fact that were shouting EDL would have alerted the staff to this fact. They then proceeded to jump over the counter with knives the size of machetes and chase them up the street.
They could simply have called the police. If they had been a mobile phone shop, that's what they would have done.
Where's the racism here? Insulting a religion or its followers is not racist!
It is racist.
How did the EDL know the shop owners were practicing Muslims? They harrased them because of the colour of their skin. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
The EDL have been caught time and time again hurling racial abuse at and attacking brown people. They have disrupted anti-racism events, and their Facebook pages are littered with racist language (against both Asians and black people).
Let's not pretend any longer that they are merely an anti-Islamic outfit. You're only kidding yourself if you do.
The EDL supporters in that shop are responsible for their own actions. They broke the law.
Judge Philip Statman was shown CCTV film showing the drunk brothers banging on the counter and chanting "EDL".
The trouble is their is no mention of what racist words the men chanted, only EDL, EDL. None of which is racist. My big issues here, is that the Judge may be confusing religious intolerance with racism.
None of the This Week guests seem to realise the travellers seem to be all white and continually refereed to racism. That's an ex party leader and ex home secretary and an ex defence minister, plus and ex news paper editor.
How did the EDL know the shop owners were practicing Muslims? They harrased them because of the colour of their skin. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
The EDL have been caught time and time again hurling racial abuse at and attacking brown people. They have disrupted anti-racism events, and their Facebook pages are littered with racist language (against both Asians and black people).
Let's not pretend any longer that they are merely an anti-Islamic outfit. You're only kidding yourself if you do.
Yes, but they weren't looting their shop, or breaking in to their house were they. They were rowdy and drunk customers. Have you every been to a Kebab Shop at 2am?
The staff were Turkish and the customers EDL supporters, who are known to target radical Islam.
The fact that were shouting EDL would have alerted the staff to this fact. They then proceeded to jump over the counter with knives the size of machetes and chase them up the street.
They could simply have called the police. If they had been a mobile phone shop, that's what they would have done.
Since when did Turkish automatically equate to Muslim, let alone radical Muslim?
That's like assuming that because you're a white Brit you're also a Christian, and that's not the case.
There wasn't time to call and wait for the police to arrive. The shop owners sensed the thugs weren't their regular "rowdy Friday night cutomers". They were more menacing, more threatening, and the Turks reacted accordingly. Good for them I say.
How did the EDL know the shop owners were practicing Muslims? They harrased them because of the colour of their skin. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
The EDL have been caught time and time again hurling racial abuse at and attacking brown people. They have disrupted anti-racism events, and their Facebook pages are littered with racist language (against both Asians and black people).
Let's not pretend any longer that they are merely an anti-Islamic outfit. You're only kidding yourself if you do.
Its a Kebab shop, its almost a certainty that its a Turkish business and Turkey is a Muslim country.
The EDL have been caught time and time again hurling racial abuse at and attacking brown people. They have disrupted anti-racism events, and their Facebook pages are littered with racist language (against both Asians and black people).
I believe the flash event attack, was on a conference on multiculturalism.
Let's not pretend any longer that they are merely an anti-Islamic outfit. You're only kidding yourself if you do.
I would say that its mixed. There are undoubtedly Nazis and racists in the EDL. There will also be people who are genuinely concerned about Islamic extremism too.
I image UAF have some nice middle class guardian reading people, who feel passionately about denouncing the EDL as fascists too. They also contain violent anarchists and people consumed with class hatred.
How is the staff being Turkish related in any way to radical Islam? Not all kebab shop owners are even Muslim, let alone radical.
I am not saying that they would be. I am not an EDL member so am not in a position to rationalise that concept. I assume that some EDL people target any one who is a Muslim.
Comments
They have the right to protect their property and defend themselves. Did the EDL have knives or guns or just shouted abuse?
They shouted abuse, the staff jumped over the counter and chased them with knives, only later did the come back and smash a fridge. A call to the police would be sufficient.
London Kebab shops are notorious places for drunken night clubbers to hang out at two in the morning. Are you seriously saying this doesn't happen all the time.
The difference is the Turkish workers took exception to them, because they were EDL hooligans.
He was a drunk idiot running from a shop so that seems extremely likely.
If they had been stabbed to death then sure, laws have been broken. We've not even established if they were stabbed right now. If it's in the middle of the night, police at least 10 mins away and you're in a potentially life-threatening situation then you have to take action. Appropriate action. Measured action. How come the shop owners didn't chase them down and stab them to death? Because they were defending themselves and nothing more.
Maybe they didn't manage to catch them!
I am glad that these racist EDL troublemakers got their come uppance in the form of a custodial sentence. Judge Statman should be congratulated on this sentence which sends a clear message that racist and islamophobic violence will not be tolerated in the UK.
Maybe. It's as good a story/theory as any.
Unless we get more details about the incident, all we have is the facts before us. And they show a continuing dangerous risk to society in these EDL supporters.
I thought the fridge only got smashed after the knife incident, when the men returned.
Sure, why not? He was running and drunk so it's perfectly possible.
But I thought you said they stabbed one of the them? How'd they do that if they didn't catch up with them?
I'd much rather the message that no violence will be tolerated was sent out.
A group that formed in response to the perception of dangerous Muslim radicals having a free reign in the UK!
I don't disagree that EDL are mostly just football hooligans and thugs, they are. Its just I also believe UAF and MAC are a bunch of thugs too, and racist abuse, doesn't give people the right to attack other people with weopans.
They have the right to defend themselves and their shop. Neither of which was threatened during the initial incident. They must have drunks their at 2am all the time, its almost inevitable if you run a fast food shop and are open when the pubs and night clubs empty.
They attacked the EDL, most likely not because they were just common or garden drunks, they attacked them because they were perceived to be anti Islamic and the shop owners were almost certainly Muslims.
You've assumed an awful lot throughout this thread.
There is no indication in the article that the EDL member's head wound was caused by the Turks. From what I've read, the Turks merely brandished knives to scare the racists away. The thugs returned with reinforcements and weapons of their own which they used to smash up parts of the kebab shop.
Has it occurred to you that their injuries were self-inflicted?
You often complain (quite rightly) about the human rights of criminals overriding the right of innocent people to protect themselves and their property by using reasonable force. That's what happened here. It just so happens that on this occasion, the innocents were Muslims and the intruders were EDL members, and you find that difficult to swallow.
Racist or anti Islamic?
Where's the racism here? Insulting a religion or its followers is not racist!
People have started to say that people are being racist against the travellers too. All the travellers I have seen so far are white, so I don't quite understand how that works either.
Yes those groups are bad as each other.
The EDL supporters in that shop are responsible for their own actions. They broke the law.
Yes, but they weren't looting their shop, or breaking in to their house were they. They were rowdy and drunk customers. Have you every been to a Kebab Shop at 2am?
The staff were Turkish and the customers EDL supporters, who are known to target radical Islam.
The fact that were shouting EDL would have alerted the staff to this fact. They then proceeded to jump over the counter with knives the size of machetes and chase them up the street.
They could simply have called the police. If they had been a mobile phone shop, that's what they would have done.
It is racist.
How did the EDL know the shop owners were practicing Muslims? They harrased them because of the colour of their skin. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
The EDL have been caught time and time again hurling racial abuse at and attacking brown people. They have disrupted anti-racism events, and their Facebook pages are littered with racist language (against both Asians and black people).
Let's not pretend any longer that they are merely an anti-Islamic outfit. You're only kidding yourself if you do.
The trouble is their is no mention of what racist words the men chanted, only EDL, EDL. None of which is racist. My big issues here, is that the Judge may be confusing religious intolerance with racism.
None of the This Week guests seem to realise the travellers seem to be all white and continually refereed to racism. That's an ex party leader and ex home secretary and an ex defence minister, plus and ex news paper editor.
...and we can see the disturbing clues here, -Sid-: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=edl+nazi+salutes&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=ovV9TqG9EKKX0QWd-Yj1Dw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CA4Q_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=571
Since when did Turkish automatically equate to Muslim, let alone radical Muslim?
That's like assuming that because you're a white Brit you're also a Christian, and that's not the case.
There wasn't time to call and wait for the police to arrive. The shop owners sensed the thugs weren't their regular "rowdy Friday night cutomers". They were more menacing, more threatening, and the Turks reacted accordingly. Good for them I say.
Its a Kebab shop, its almost a certainty that its a Turkish business and Turkey is a Muslim country.
The knives are those big long ones they slice the meat off with.
I believe the flash event attack, was on a conference on multiculturalism.
I would say that its mixed. There are undoubtedly Nazis and racists in the EDL. There will also be people who are genuinely concerned about Islamic extremism too.
I image UAF have some nice middle class guardian reading people, who feel passionately about denouncing the EDL as fascists too. They also contain violent anarchists and people consumed with class hatred.
Who knows if they even were officially EDL. Did the police check their membership cards. Any old drunk can call themselves EDL.
So what? Britain is called a Christian country, but most Brits are Atheist or Agnostic.
What a silly generalisation to make.
I am not saying that they would be. I am not an EDL member so am not in a position to rationalise that concept. I assume that some EDL people target any one who is a Muslim.