7 Illegal Drugs That Are Surprisingly Good Medicine

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  • YosemiteYosemite Posts: 6,192
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    jackyork wrote: »
    I agree the Majority would be against as we stand today but if polled 30 yrs from now then "For legalisation " would be the majority as there is a generation of 50 + around that still hold more older fashionable views.

    You could be right, but I doubt it.

    Don't forget that in 30 years time, most of the adolescents and young adults who are now so vociferously demanding recreational drug legalisation will be in their 40s or 50s.

    At that point, I should imagine that they will have other preoccupations, prominent amongst them being to discourage their children and grandchildren from potentially damaging their health (physical and mental), career prospects, and their chances of living fulfilling lives.

    In other words, trying to help their offspring avoid the mistakes that they made themselves when they were too immature to know better.

    'Twas ever thus ...
  • mathertronmathertron Posts: 30,083
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Why not give it a try?
    Report one of my posts and see if I get banned.

    No...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,285
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    mathertron wrote: »

    Every drug has positive and negative side effects.

    It's true. Even painkillers have side effects.
  • DarthchaffinchDarthchaffinch Posts: 7,558
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    Aneechik wrote: »
    They haven't mentioned it specifically, but ketamine is also considered to be an extremely effective anaesthetic, but is rarely used in humans due to the hallucinations it can induce.

    It's also used in the treatment of rabies, under the Milwaukee Protocol.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_protocol

    Ketamine is also causing a huge rise in the cases of incontinence- proper full-blown symptoms!!

    If you take LSD for headaches over time, you'll not need worry about them...becuase your heart valves will be causing cariac regurgitation and potentially fail!

    Not a very good article IMO.
  • archiverarchiver Posts: 13,011
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Sure, we could legalise drugs IF we found a way to source them ethically and supply them in a way that made a black-market untenable but, then again, we could increase the speed limit to 120mph if we put in place sufficient safeguards to make it safe too.
    Would you agree to legalise home grown marijuana then? It would seem to fit your requirement that the black market would be untenable. Your comparison with increasing the speed limit is ridiculous. Excess speed kills more than the perpetrator.
    Sometimes the result isn't worth the effort though.
    Converting millions of UK adults from criminals to law abiding citizens, at a stroke, is not worth the effort?
  • Granny WeatherwaxGranny Weatherwax Posts: 52,923
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    Aneechik wrote: »
    They haven't mentioned it specifically, but ketamine is also considered to be an extremely effective anaesthetic, but is rarely used in humans due to the hallucinations it can induce.

    It's also used in the treatment of rabies, under the Milwaukee Protocol.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_protocol

    Ketamine can actually be used and is used very successfully within the palliative care setting as a thirdline analgesia to manage complex pain issues. It does this by basically inhibiting pain receptors. The hallucinatory side-effects can be alliviated by using other medications.
    It's true. Even painkillers have side effects.

    Paracetamol, one nasty mother if not taken correctly and readily available in almost any shop.
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    archiver wrote: »
    Would you agree to legalise home grown marijuana then? It would seem to fit your requirement that the black market would be untenable.
    That doesn't solve the problem though.

    It wouldn't stop people from importing cannabis grown by organised crime syndicates in other countries.

    In reality, all that'd happen would be that every stoner and dealer would buy a couple of plants and then claim that the only weed they possess was from those plants.
    Your comparison with increasing the speed limit is ridiculous. Excess speed kills more than the the perpetrator.
    It's not ridiculous at all.

    Drugs kill many, many more people than the actual users.
    They're responsible for a lot of deaths in the countries where the stuff is grown and they're responsible for a lot of crime (and more deaths) in the countries where the drugs are sold.

    If we made the effort to make cars and roads safer then speeding could be decriminalised in exactly the same way that drugs could be if we took similarly extensive measures.
    Converting millions of UK adults from criminals to law abiding citizens, at a stroke, is not worth the effort?

    Until you can actually come up with a way to achieve this, it's not really worth discussing.

    Bear in mind, for example, that the UK is an expensive place to manufacture anything.
    Even if we DID set up vast legal cannabis farms in the UK the chances are that the running costs would be high enough that it'd still be worthwhile importing weed on the black market.

    About the only way that you could ethically legalise drugs would be to persuade countries like India and China to start growing them legally and then for all western countries to buy their drugs from those suppliers.
    That would, hopefully, create a situation where the drugs could be produced and transported cheaply enough that it'd be impossible for black-market drug producers to compete.
  • pixiebootspixieboots Posts: 3,762
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    It's true. Even painkillers have side effects.

    That ibuprofen has literally ripped my stomach out :mad: I have found cannabis good for mild-medium arthritis pain but only if I ate it, I tried smoking but it made the pain worse. The hassle and illegality involved in obtaining it means I stick to ibuprofen and a cocktail of steroids and other stabilising drugs that eventually destroy your liver-exactly as the drug companies that lobby all govts want me too.
  • DarthchaffinchDarthchaffinch Posts: 7,558
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    pixieboots wrote: »
    That ibuprofen has literally ripped my stomach out :mad: I have found cannabis good for mild-medium arthritis pain but only if I ate it, I tried smoking but it made the pain worse. The hassle and illegality involved in obtaining it means I stick to ibuprofen and a cocktail of steroids and other stabilising drugs that eventually destroy your liver-exactly as the drug companies that lobby all govts want me too.

    are you serious? :confused:
  • pixiebootspixieboots Posts: 3,762
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    are you serious? :confused:
    kind of-I don't mean the drug companies actively want my liver damaged (well maybe they do so they can then sell me the cure:D) but they do want me to buy their prescription drugs like methotrexate and lots of painkillers. They have a vested interest in me not being able to eat a cannabis brownie and get to sleep-they would lose money as I would be taking less prescription drugs.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 40,102
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    Most drugs - medicinal and recreational - both have positive and negative effects. The reason most medicinal drugs are legal for medicine is because they do relatively more good than bad.

    I don't know if the same can be said for much of the ones mentioned.

    I am pretty liberal when it comes to drugs, but for most of them there's no proper medical use (except for rare cases, and things like marijuana are obviously used medicinally).
  • archiverarchiver Posts: 13,011
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    archiver wrote: »
    Would you agree to legalise home grown marijuana then? It would seem to fit your requirement that the black market would be untenable
    That doesn't solve the problem though.

    It wouldn't stop people from importing cannabis grown by organised crime syndicates in other countries.

    In reality, all that'd happen would be that every stoner and dealer would buy a couple of plants and then claim that the only weed they possess was from those plants.
    Nonsense. What possible reason would any user have to buy imported, or illegally produced weed, when they can grow their own. I really don't think you know much about this subject.
    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    archiver wrote: »
    Your comparison with increasing the speed limit is ridiculous. Excess speed kills more than the perpetrator.
    It's not ridiculous at all.

    Drugs kill many, many more people than the actual users.
    They're responsible for a lot of deaths in the countries where the stuff is grown and they're responsible for a lot of crime (and more deaths) in the countries where the drugs are sold.
    No. You're confusing the effects of drugs with the effects of prohibition. A common mistake.
    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    If we made the effort to make cars and roads safer then speeding could be decriminalised in exactly the same way that drugs could be if we took similarly extensive measures.
    I see your point, but it's still ridiculous if you compare the astronomical cost of making cars, roads and drivers capable of safely travelling at 120mph with the simple measure of permitting home grown marijuana.
    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    archiver wrote: »
    Converting millions of UK adults from criminals to law abiding citizens, at a stroke, is not worth the effort?
    Until you can actually come up with a way to achieve this, it's not really worth discussing.
    I have done, but you don't get it.
    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Bear in mind, for example, that the UK is an expensive place to manufacture anything.
    Even if we DID set up vast legal cannabis farms in the UK the chances are that the running costs would be high enough that it'd still be worthwhile importing weed on the black market.
    Until you get more of a clue about the yield per plant and costs involved - It's not worth discussing with you.
    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    About the only way that you could ethically legalise drugs would be to persuade countries like India and China to start growing them legally and then for all western countries to buy their drugs from those suppliers.
    That would, hopefully, create a situation where the drugs could be produced and transported cheaply enough that it'd be impossible for black-market drug producers to compete.
    Sorry, but your reasoning is becoming more and more laughable.

    A very high proportion of the marijuana used in this country is already home grown.

    The yield from a single good quality plant is enough to keep your average ¼ oz/week toker happy for about 2 months! At the lowest street price that single plant is worth about £240. Would you still like to argue that only China or India could successfully produce and supply it?
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    archiver wrote: »
    Nonsense. What possible reason would any user have to buy imported, or illegally produced weed, when they can grow their own. I really don't think you know much about this subject.
    Price.
    No. You're confusing the effects of drugs with the effects of prohibition. A common mistake.
    I'm not confusing them.
    I'm simply pointing out that those issues will still exist as long as there's a black-market supply of drugs.
    about the yield per plant and costs involved - It's not worth discussing with you.

    Sorry, but your reasoning is becoming more and more laughable.

    A very high proportion of the marijuana used in this country is already home grown.

    The yield from a single good quality plant is enough to keep your average ¼ oz/week toker happy for about 2 months! At the lowest street price that single plant is worth about £240. Would you still like to argue that only China or India could successfully produce and supply it?

    A "very high proportion"?
    Do you have figures to support this assertion?

    Surely there'd be no point in growing it in south America if this was the case and there wouldn't be stories about customs seizing tonnes of cannabis that's being imported?

    If there ARE so many people growing their own cannabis, why are there still drug dealers supplying it?
  • archiverarchiver Posts: 13,011
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    A "very high proportion"?
    Do you have figures to support this assertion?
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/homegrown-cannabis-is-a-booming-business-439966.html

    Didn't take long to find and that's 2007. The proportion is growing as well as the plants. :)

    As your other points are based on the assumption that enough cannabis cannot be home grown; please excuse me for not responding to them.
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    archiver wrote: »
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/homegrown-cannabis-is-a-booming-business-439966.html

    Didn't take long to find and that's 2007. The proportion is growing as well as the plants. :)

    As your other points are based on the assumption that enough cannabis cannot be home grown; please excuse me for not responding to them.

    Fair play.
    It does seem as though it'd certainly be feasible for us to grow enough to supply domestic demand.

    Of course, I can't help thinking that, in line with ciggy's and booze, the govenment might tax the living sh*t out of it so that it'd still be attractive for criminals to import and sell on the black market.

    If there was a way to ensure that only ethically produced weed was sold in the UK I'd honestly have nothing against it but as long as there's the possibility that the money could still be heading toward organised crime I'm not sure how any government could really endorse the legalisation.

    Shame really cos, as you say, it seems that it would be pretty easy to fulfill domestic demand.
  • archiverarchiver Posts: 13,011
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Fair play.
    It does seem as though it'd certainly be feasible for us to grow enough to supply domestic demand.
    Indubitably.
    Of course, I can't help thinking that, in line with ciggy's and booze, the govenment might tax the living sh*t out of it so that it'd still be attractive for criminals to import and sell on the black market.
    I think you're right there. Unfortunately they would stupidly ensure the efficacy was very low too, thereby ensuring the black market would still exist. So that would solve nothing.
    If there was a way to ensure that only ethically produced weed was sold in the UK I'd honestly have nothing against it but as long as there's the possibility that the money could still be heading toward organised crime I'm not sure how any government could really endorse the legalisation.
    They could endorse home growing of small amounts for personal use, but then they would make nothing from it, except perhaps a reduction in policing costs.
    Shame really cos, as you say, it seems that it would be pretty easy to fulfill domestic demand.
    Indeed. It's more of a shame for the medicinal users who find it to be a truly wonderful way to reduce their suffering. Making criminals of the chronically ill is barbaric.
  • jackyorkjackyork Posts: 6,608
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    Yosemite wrote: »
    You could be right, but I doubt it.

    Don't forget that in 30 years time, most of the adolescents and young adults who are now so vociferously demanding recreational drug legalisation will be in their 40s or 50s.

    At that point, I should imagine that they will have other preoccupations, prominent amongst them being to discourage their children and grandchildren from potentially damaging their health (physical and mental), career prospects, and their chances of living fulfilling lives.

    In other words, trying to help their offspring avoid the mistakes that they made themselves when they were too immature to know better
    .

    'Twas ever thus ...

    Who's made mistakes ? I haven't made any mistakes I took drugs in my adolescent years and lots of it, But I never let it control me,
    I'm a 42 yr old Grandfather now who thinks the same now as i did then I know some people can not control their drug intake you can the same about alcohol because a very high percentage are out of control the amount they drink but most are in denial.
    Health authorities are starting to wake up to the massive costs Alcohol has on the NHS and this is legal:eek:

    Making drugs legal will ease the pressure on our police who are fighting a fight they will never win.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,285
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    pixieboots wrote: »
    That ibuprofen has literally ripped my stomach out :mad: I have found cannabis good for mild-medium arthritis pain but only if I ate it, I tried smoking but it made the pain worse. The hassle and illegality involved in obtaining it means I stick to ibuprofen and a cocktail of steroids and other stabilising drugs that eventually destroy your liver-exactly as the drug companies that lobby all govts want me too.

    I don't think people are warned enough about how ibuprofen can affect your stomach.
  • EmmersonneEmmersonne Posts: 4,532
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    I recently had my wisdom teeth out and at one point, waiting for my painkillers to kick in I was curled up, groaning and thinking that I would take ANY substance to stop it hurting.

    Rational doesn't come into it with extreme pain - and "it's illegal" must be little comfort to those suffering and being denied certain drugs.l
  • DarthchaffinchDarthchaffinch Posts: 7,558
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    I don't think people are warned enough about how ibuprofen can affect your stomach.

    It's on the bit of paper that comes with every box that you're meant to read. :)
  • archiverarchiver Posts: 13,011
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    archiver wrote: »
    It's more of a shame for the medicinal users who find it to be a truly wonderful way to reduce their suffering. Making criminals of the chronically ill is barbaric.
    Seems 'Sativex' is now available for some sufferers with certain conditions:

    "Sativex is like the holy grail for me. A legal risk-free 'second-best' alternative to the natural herb."
  • mathertronmathertron Posts: 30,083
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    archiver wrote: »
    Seems 'Sativex' is now available for some sufferers with certain conditions:

    "Sativex is like the holy grail for me. A legal risk-free 'second-best' alternative to the natural herb."

    ^^^second best, when the plant could be grown easily for a fraction of the price, ingested in a wider variety of ROAs and with custom strains of cannabinoids tailored to the indivdual patient's needs.....Or a shitty bottle of 50/50%thc/cbd sativex spray for £200 a pop whil GW Pharma make a mint and you get sent to jail if you try and grow yr own medicine.

    It's good that it's onto phase3 stage trials but it's still a f*cking disgrace.


    e2a: Stu Wyatt pmsl he is a bit of a numpty.
  • archiverarchiver Posts: 13,011
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    mathertron wrote: »
    ^^^second best, when the plant could be grown easily for a fraction of the price, ingested in a wider variety of ROAs and with custom strains of cannabinoids tailored to the indivdual patient's needs.....Or a shitty bottle of 50/50%thc/cbd sativex spray for £200 a pop whil GW Pharma make a mint and you get sent to jail if you try and grow yr own medicine.

    It's good that it's onto phase3 stage trials but it's still a f*cking disgrace.


    e2a: Stu Wyatt pmsl he is a bit of a numpty.
    Yup. Quoting the man himself "We truly live in a mad world don't we?" :rolleyes:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,016
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    We have a tendency to throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to drugs, personally put all the information out their and make drugs legal, as an adult human being I can make my own informed choice. I suspect all drugs which are currently illegal I wouldn't take anyway, I've been socialized that way.

    Sadly in this country we don't like science to get in the way of group hysteria, we can't have a mature and unbiased discussion about drugs, so why bother.
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