We were meant to be worried that it would be Brienne, before the body was revealed.
I don't think that was the intention. I think the scene with Brienne faithfully waiting for the candle to be lit (just after we learn the plan has been uncovered) was there to add to the sense of tragedy, rather than serve as a tease and make us think it might be her who Ramsay had tortured and killed. If the candle had been lit whilst Brienne was standing there staring at the tower I'd take your point; but and the the candle wasn't lit, there was no prompt or indication that she might do anything other than keep waiting for the candle to be lit (or is it lighted?).
I don't think that was the intention. I think the scene with Brienne faithfully waiting for the candle to be lit (just after we learn the plan has been uncovered) was there to add to the sense of tragedy, rather than serve as a tease and make us think it might be her who Ramsay had tortured and killed. If the candle had been lit whilst Brienne was standing there staring at the tower I'd take your point; but and the the candle wasn't lit, there was no prompt or indication that she might do anything other than keep waiting for the candle to be lit (or is it lighted?).
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't see what the point of adding that shot of Brienne faithfully waiting for the candle to be lit immediately after Reek sold Sansa and her "friends" out to Ramsay would be if we weren't meant to fear, in the back of our minds, that Brienne might be in danger.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't see what the point of adding that shot of Brienne faithfully waiting for the candle to be lit immediately after Reek sold Sansa and her "friends" out to Ramsay would be if we weren't meant to fear, in the back of our minds, that Brienne might be in danger.
No problem with agreeing to disagre . I thought that scene with Brienne added to Sansa's desperate situation. She (Sansa) has someone on the outside willing to help, waiting patiently for a sign, she finally reaches the point where she needs to call upon that help, but the plot is uncovered and any hope of help is slammed shut in her face...and Brienne still patiently waits for a sign, a sign we now know isn't likely to come anytime soon.
Well, that's the problem with Stannis, isn't it. As long as he's got Melisandre in tow it's impossible to root for him wholeheartedly.
Are mass burnings really the mark of a good King?
Stannis has stood by and watched people being burned and murdered all in the pursuit of power. And now he will be expected to consider sacrificing his own daughter.
If he refuses to sacrifice Shireen and finally gives Melisandre the push for trying to corrupt him to such an extent, then he would be worthy of the throne. But right now I think we're meant to be solidly in two minds about the prospect of him becoming King. [/QUOTE}
That's how I feel. I don't like Stannis as he's just a puppet thus far. If he sat on the Iron Throne, Madame weirdo Melisandre would pull the strings. Not a good result.
So Brianne is waiting outside Winterfell.
Stannis is on his way to Winterfell.
Might Brianne try and kill Stannis for what he did to Renly ?
I reckon it'll come down to her having a choice between her vow to kill Stannis and her vow to protect Sansa. Maybe Stannis wins but Ramsay retreats back to the Dreadfort with Sansa in tow.
Mind you with Brienne's track record with her oaths she'll probably attempt to kill Stannis, end up killing Sansa instead somehow, and then get killed herself.
It never occurred to me that the body might be Brienne. Now I'm worried Ramsay will get his hands on her.
Re the burning of bodies. The world is Medieval, so along with beheadings, burnings and cruxifictions sound about right to me.
Stannis is in thrall to Melisandre, but the rest of the time he comes over as sensible guy who would make a good king. If he were truly honourable of course, he wouldn't be using sorcery to take the Iron throne.
It never occurred to me that the body might be Brienne. Now I'm worried Ramsay will get his hands on her.
I reckon it's coming .... Ramsey knows Sansa now has help on the outside (albeit he probably doesn't the extent of the help ) at worst he will assume it'll be an army and best he will probably assume it's a few rag tag northerners either way can you say "ambush" (Not a book reader I'm just guessing )
I reckon it's coming .... Ramsey knows Sansa now has help on the outside (albeit he probably doesn't the extent of the help ) at worst he will assume it'll be an army and best he will probably assume it's a few rag tag northerners either way can you say "ambush" (Not a book reader I'm just guessing )
Surely it would have made more sense to tell Reek to go ahead and light the candle then grab anyone involved in the rescue attempt?
I reckon it's coming .... Ramsey knows Sansa now has help on the outside (albeit he probably doesn't the extent of the help ) at worst he will assume it'll be an army and best he will probably assume it's a few rag tag northerners either way can you say "ambush" (Not a book reader I'm just guessing )
Surely it would have made more sense to tell Reek to go ahead and light the candle then grab anyone involved in the rescue attempt?
I think he'd be more likely to be prepared before lighting the candle in case it is an army. No doubt he'll be doing some investigating before making his move. This storyline isn't in the books, so we have nothing to go on from that source. I hate to think what pleasure he would take if Brienne was captured.
Surely it would have made more sense to tell Reek to go ahead and light the candle then grab anyone involved in the rescue attempt?
He tortured the old lady to try to learn as much as he could about the plot, i.e. who was involved, how many, what resources do they have, etc. She died before telling him anything, so clearly he wants to be as prepared as he can be before making any move. As far as he knows lighting the candle could have heralded a sizeable assault. Daddy wouldn't have been too impressed.
i don't get all the dany hate, she's clearly doing the best she can when faced with awful decisions to make
It's because she hasn't done anything in 2 seasons. She has the means to take the throne but won't ..... Instead she's learning how to rule. I get the idea but in a show where all these chess pieces are moving and knocking each other off the board, Dany is just sitting in the corner doing nothing.
On the subject of Ramsey, the arrival of a sibling has been mentioned a few times on the show. I wonder if he ends up doing something in one of the next three episodes? A jealous rage, perhaps.
It's because she hasn't done anything in 2 seasons. She has the means to take the throne but won't ..... Instead she's learning how to rule. I get the idea but in a show where all these chess pieces are moving and knocking each other off the board, Dany is just sitting in the corner doing nothing.
Learning how not to rule might be a more accurate description.
We were meant to be worried that it would be Brienne, before the body was revealed.
Obviously, once the body was revealed it was plainly the old woman.
I don't think we were. The old woman's face was revealed at the very start of the scene, even before we saw her flayed body parts - so the identity had already been revealed.
I honestly don't think the writers wanted us to think that it was Brienne who had been killed. Evidently, some people did but I doubt that was the intention.
It's because she hasn't done anything in 2 seasons. She has the means to take the throne but won't ..... Instead she's learning how to rule. I get the idea but in a show where all these chess pieces are moving and knocking each other off the board, Dany is just sitting in the corner doing nothing.
I think "has the means" might be a bit generous. Her dragons are uncontrollable and not yet fully grown (or weren't, when she took up residence in Meereen) and young dragons are easy prey. On top of that, her army is also not very big (it's only ~10k, whereas the Lannisters alone have more than double, probably triple that). And when she took Meereen, she also didn't have any ships or any other means to cross the Narrow Sea.
Now I think about it, unless she's waiting for the dragons to be big enough to ride, I'm not sure why Dany has stopped moving towards Westeros. She said she needed an army and ships which she's got now. I think the army is large enough (and well trained) and Jorah told her more will join her when she lands back in Westeros because she is the rightful heir to the Iron throne.
As far as I can see the main stumbling block is she has no control over her dragons so maybe something has to happen for her to gain that control. I can't remember from reading GRRM books and short stories so long ago now - how were dragons used in the past? Were they ridden? How were they controlled? I'd like to know.
The Valyrians controlled them with whips and magic horns I think. I have no idea how the Targaryens managed it since by that point I think the magic was long lost. Probably just the whips.
She can't leave because the place is near anarchy. It turns out that you can't just kill all the old leaders and everything will turn out fine (I suppose this applies to Westeros too).
She'd no doubt have some support if/when she invades Westeros, but a lot of what she and Viserys were told about their family and the rebellion wasn't really true and glossed over the really evil bits don't forget, so there'd be plenty who oppose her too.
On the subject of Ramsey, the arrival of a sibling has been mentioned a few times on the show. I wonder if he ends up doing something in one of the next three episodes? A jealous rage, perhaps.
I actually thought he might murder Walda, due to what Sansa said to him re: legitimacy as a Bolton. He should've been born in Dorne! B'stard-ry is cleary a sore point for him, his achilles heal (thank God he has some form of weakness). Well played Sansa.
Comments
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't see what the point of adding that shot of Brienne faithfully waiting for the candle to be lit immediately after Reek sold Sansa and her "friends" out to Ramsay would be if we weren't meant to fear, in the back of our minds, that Brienne might be in danger.
No problem with agreeing to disagre
Stannis is on his way to Winterfell.
Might Brianne try and kill Stannis for what he did to Renly ?
Seems to be the done thing
Aegon and his Sisters burnt 1000's of people in their conquest of the 7 Kingdoms.
Aerys II burnt lots of people and wanted to burn the whole of Kings Landing.
Dany's Dragons have already burnt dozens of people and will no doubt burn hundreds more on her way to the Iron Throne.
Cersei has said she will burn cities to the ground to protect her children.
Littlefinger would apparently burn the whole 7 Kingdoms to the ground if he could be King of the ashes.
Mel burning the odd "heretic" now and then seems quite tame
I think they are pretty much destined to cross swords, given how often Brienne has talked of killing him.
I worry that she'll inadvertently f**k things up for somebody else, or for herself, in doing so though.
For example, killing him before he can liberate Winterfell, to Sansa and the North's detriment.
I reckon it'll come down to her having a choice between her vow to kill Stannis and her vow to protect Sansa. Maybe Stannis wins but Ramsay retreats back to the Dreadfort with Sansa in tow.
Mind you with Brienne's track record with her oaths she'll probably attempt to kill Stannis, end up killing Sansa instead somehow, and then get killed herself.
The feet were too small for Brienne. Ramsay could have made an overcoat for his whole army by skinning her.
Re the burning of bodies. The world is Medieval, so along with beheadings, burnings and cruxifictions sound about right to me.
Stannis is in thrall to Melisandre, but the rest of the time he comes over as sensible guy who would make a good king. If he were truly honourable of course, he wouldn't be using sorcery to take the Iron throne.
I reckon it's coming .... Ramsey knows Sansa now has help on the outside (albeit he probably doesn't the extent of the help ) at worst he will assume it'll be an army and best he will probably assume it's a few rag tag northerners either way can you say "ambush"
Surely it would have made more sense to tell Reek to go ahead and light the candle then grab anyone involved in the rescue attempt?
I think he'd be more likely to be prepared before lighting the candle in case it is an army. No doubt he'll be doing some investigating before making his move. This storyline isn't in the books, so we have nothing to go on from that source. I hate to think what pleasure he would take if Brienne was captured.
It's because she hasn't done anything in 2 seasons. She has the means to take the throne but won't ..... Instead she's learning how to rule. I get the idea but in a show where all these chess pieces are moving and knocking each other off the board, Dany is just sitting in the corner doing nothing.
Learning how not to rule might be a more accurate description.
I honestly don't think the writers wanted us to think that it was Brienne who had been killed. Evidently, some people did but I doubt that was the intention.
As far as I can see the main stumbling block is she has no control over her dragons so maybe something has to happen for her to gain that control. I can't remember from reading GRRM books and short stories so long ago now - how were dragons used in the past? Were they ridden? How were they controlled? I'd like to know.
She'd no doubt have some support if/when she invades Westeros, but a lot of what she and Viserys were told about their family and the rebellion wasn't really true and glossed over the really evil bits don't forget, so there'd be plenty who oppose her too.
I actually thought he might murder Walda, due to what Sansa said to him re: legitimacy as a Bolton. He should've been born in Dorne! B'stard-ry is cleary a sore point for him, his achilles heal (thank God he has some form of weakness). Well played Sansa.