Did George Osborne really just say that about the 40p tax rate?

kippehkippeh Posts: 6,655
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George Osborne was accused of ‘insulting’ middle-class voters last night after claiming that making them pay higher tax rates is ‘good for them’ because it makes them feel successful – and more likely to back the Tories.

Conservative MPs were stunned when the Chancellor made the explosive remark at a secret meeting at his Downing Street office, the contents of which have been leaked to The Mail on Sunday.

The disclosure came as Mr Osborne is poised to announce a Budget boost for the low-paid by raising the threshold for income tax to £10,500, while rejecting pleas to stop more middle earners being dragged into the 40p tax band.

MPs at the meeting reacted with horror when he told them: ‘Let’s not forget there are advantages in more people paying tax at 40p.

‘It means they feel they are a success and joining the aspirational classes.

'That means they are more likely to think like Conservatives and vote Conservative.

'If they are paying 40p tax they have a greater interest in cutting Government spending because they are paying for it. All the polling evidence suggests I am right.’

One MP who was present said: ‘There was a stunned silence. I never thought I’d hear a Tory Chancellor say paying more tax is good for the middle classes. It was a Marie Antoinette moment.’

:o If true, it means this guy is even more of an utter plonker than originally thought.
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Comments

  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    kippeh wrote: »
    :o If true, it means this guy is even more of an utter plonker than originally thought.

    it's true actually.

    basically people aspire to be in the top tax bracket. between that and a comment taken deliberately out of context and i'm sure you'll find the truth in their somewhere.

    where is your quote from?
  • kippehkippeh Posts: 6,655
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    flagpole wrote: »
    it's true actually.

    basically people aspire to be in the top tax bracket. between that and a comment taken deliberately out of context and i'm sure you'll find the truth in their somewhere.

    where is your quote from?

    Sorry, it was the Mail, so take with usual shovel of salt. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581860/Osborne-People-paying-40p-tax-feel-joining-aspirational-classes-success-Tory-MPs-accuse-Chancellor-insulting-middle-earners.html#ixzz2wJHyallK

    I don't think people aspire to be in any kind of bracket where they are paying more tax though. Earning more money maybe.
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,988
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    I can see his point in that some may see getting into the 40% tax bracket as an achievement.

    However all this talk of more people being dragged into the 40p tax bracket is rather ironic when the figures actually show due to the increase in the personal allowance they are actually slightly better off overall.
  • kippehkippeh Posts: 6,655
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    jmclaugh wrote: »
    I can see his point in that some may see getting into the 40% tax bracket as an achievement..

    The commensurate money earned maybe, but I doubt anybody wears the 40% tax take with pride. :D
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    kippeh wrote: »
    Sorry, it was the Mail, so take with usual shovel of salt. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581860/Osborne-People-paying-40p-tax-feel-joining-aspirational-classes-success-Tory-MPs-accuse-Chancellor-insulting-middle-earners.html#ixzz2wJHyallK

    I don't think people aspire to be in any kind of bracket where they are paying more tax though. Earning more money maybe.
    jmclaugh wrote: »
    I can see his point in that some may see getting into the 40% tax bracket as an achievement.

    However all this talk of more people being dragged into the 40p tax bracket is rather ironic when the figures actually show due to the increase in the personnel allowance they are actually slightly better off overall.
    kippeh wrote: »
    The commensurate money earned maybe, but I doubt anybody wears the 40% tax take with pride. :D

    but there is truth in there. which gives the scope for him to have said something entirely correct and it to have been taken out of context.
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,988
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    kippeh wrote: »
    The commensurate money earned maybe, but I doubt anybody wears the 40% tax take with pride. :D

    Oh I don't know there are many who claim paying tax is an honourable activity. ;-)
  • kippehkippeh Posts: 6,655
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    flagpole wrote: »
    but there is truth in there. which gives the scope for him to have said something entirely correct and it to have been taken out of context.

    Fair enough.
  • blueisthecolourblueisthecolour Posts: 20,123
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    I think that there's some truth in the claim that people, on some level, like the idea that they are a higher rate tax payer. It's a bit embarrassing to admit but i'm not too far off and do see it as a kind of target to aim for. Of course once you're paying it it's pretty painful to think that you're losing 40% of all extra income (though due to the reduction in NI you pay it's actually 'only' an extra 10%).

    Of course, no one who has entered this bracket since 2010 is actually paying more income tax overall thanks to the rise in tax threshold. So you get the smugness without the cost :)

    It don't think it's ideal to have more people enter this bracket; but given the constraints we are facing I think it would be absurd of the government to dedicate resources to the richest in society in order to resolve an entirely ideological problem. They day we increase higher rate allowances by more than nurses pay is a sad sad day.
  • TeeGeeTeeGee Posts: 5,772
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    He is a total t**t. Worse, he is my local MP. I suppose I should feel a sense of achievement when I die and pay 40% IHT too!
  • wazzyboywazzyboy Posts: 13,346
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    I certainly don't aspire to that particularly ambiguous badge of honour.

    Given my age, qualifications and experience I could aspire to jobs that would put me in that bracket, but my work life balance and possibly health would suffer and I don't actually NEED the money (unless I insist on spending it on things I can do well enough without).

    Money isn't everything may be a cliche, and it's tough if you've got little or none, but to use another old adage in a different context, enough is enough.
  • OLD HIPPY GUYOLD HIPPY GUY Posts: 28,199
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    It means they feel they are a success and joining the aspirational classes
    That means they are more likely to think like Conservatives and vote conservative

    There we have it folks, straight from the horses mouth, the Tory 'mind' talking of "classes" admitting that Tories measure "success" by how much money an individual has or earns, right there they show their true colours, all that matters to them and all they believe the public care about is how much of the pie "I" get,

    Takes me back to what I have always said was the real reason behind the sale of council houses, it was as much an attempt to divide and weaken the strength and unity of the working class as their assault on the unions.
  • kippehkippeh Posts: 6,655
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    There we have it folks, straight from the horses mouth, the Tory 'mind' talking of "classes" admitting that Tories measure "success" by how much money an individual has or earns, right there they show their true colours, all that matters to them and all they believe the public care about is how much of the pie "I" get,

    Takes me back to what I have always said was the real reason behind the sale of council houses, it was as much an attempt to divide and weaken the strength and unity of the working class as their assault on the unions.

    Don't get too excited OHG, this is the Daily Mail don't forget, so the usual caution is advised.
  • LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,623
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    kippeh wrote: »
    :o If true, it means this guy is even more of an utter plonker than originally thought.

    I thought Lefties wanted successful people to pay more tax.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    There we have it folks, straight from the horses mouth, the Tory 'mind' talking of "classes" admitting that Tories measure "success" by how much money an individual has or earns, right there they show their true colours, all that matters to them and all they believe the public care about is how much of the pie "I" get,

    Takes me back to what I have always said was the real reason behind the sale of council houses, it was as much an attempt to divide and weaken the strength and unity of the working class as their assault on the unions.

    have you seen the direct quote?

    even with the quote you have i can't see the bit where it says or implies that they measure success by how much an individual earns.
  • OLD HIPPY GUYOLD HIPPY GUY Posts: 28,199
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    flagpole wrote: »
    have you seen the direct quote?

    even with the quote you have i can't see the bit where it says or implies that they measure success by how much an individual earns.

    I was quoting from the OPs post, in which it's stated that Osborne said that when people reach the 40p tax bracket,
    it means they feel they are a success

    Seems abundantly clear to me that we have a high ranking member of the Tory cabinet saying that a person earning enough to be in the 40p tax bracket will "feel they are a success"
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    I was quoting from the OPs post, in which it's stated that Osborne said that when people reach the 40p tax bracket,


    Seems abundantly clear to me that we have a high ranking member of the Tory cabinet saying that a person earning enough to be in the 40p tax bracket will "feel they are a success"

    right.

    it doesn't mean that at all. the full line is they will think they are a success. not that osbourne will think they are successful.

    did you see the next line: 'That means they are more likely to think like Conservatives and vote Conservative.' - i'm not sure who you think you are quoting.
  • razorboyrazorboy Posts: 5,831
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    TeeGee wrote: »
    He is a total t**t. Worse, he is my local MP. I suppose I should feel a sense of achievement when I die and pay 40% IHT too!

    Would you feel you had achieved more if you had insufficient wealth to not be paying IHT
  • OLD HIPPY GUYOLD HIPPY GUY Posts: 28,199
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    kippeh wrote: »
    Don't get too excited OHG, this is the Daily Mail don't forget, so the usual caution is advised.

    Nooooo for once I am supporting the Mail and join my rightie 'friends' in congratulating them for bringing us the truth, after all, 'they are only saying what most of us think'

    Oh wait, but this time they're not attacking the dead father of the leader of the Labour party, or attempting to imply that a high ranking member of the Labour party once supported paedophiles,
    Or accusing the sick the disabled the unemployed and the low paid of being scroungers,
    So this time our rightie friends decide not to support the Daily hate Mail strange that.
    :D
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    Trying to buy votes. Filthy. >:(
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    Trying to buy votes. Filthy. >:(

    Hmmm.

    Did you post that in the wrong thread or was the post automatically generated by your tory insult bot.

    you know Brown gave pensioners a one off payment of £200 5 months before the 2005 election?
  • paulschapmanpaulschapman Posts: 35,536
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    kippeh wrote: »
    :o If true, it means this guy is even more of an utter plonker than originally thought.

    Strange that when the Mail prints something that the left can use to hit the Tories with it is the fountain of all truth but a pack of lies when the shoe is on the other foot.

    That said the writer of the article should have done his research. Marie Antoinette never said 'Let them eat cake'. Historians have attributed it to Marie-Therese, the wife of Louis XIV . Further it is a mis-translation anyway - it is "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche," Brioche is a form of sweet bread. Marie-Antoinette was a generous patroness of charity and moved by the plight of the poor when it was brought to her attention, so

    Context is of course everything. Just as it is in the case of Mrs Thatcher's quote about society and Norman Lamonts about the unemployed. In this instance it is more likely that he was saying higher rate taxpayers are more likely to be successful and vote conservative rather than be happy paying the 40% rate - which thanks to fiscal drag sees even more people dragged into it.

    I also wonder if this has it's roots in the in fighting going on - Personally I wish they would stop it and get on with running the country, rather than jostling for the job they will have after 2015 - at this rate it will be in opposition.
  • OLD HIPPY GUYOLD HIPPY GUY Posts: 28,199
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    flagpole wrote: »
    right.

    it doesn't mean that at all. the full line is they will think they are a success. not that osbourne will think they are successful.

    Eh? Osborne thinks (from what he is quoted as saying) that HE believes that once a person is earing enough to be taxed at 40% that they will "feel they are a success"
    what's that if it's not the Tory chancellor saying that in his opinion, and he believes it to be an opinion shared by those inclined to vote Conservative, that how much a person earns is the way to indicate how successful they are?
    did you see the next line: 'That means they are more likely to think like Conservatives and vote Conservative.' - i'm not sure who you think you are quoting.

    Exactly my point, Osborne is saying that he is of the opinion that people who earn above a certain amount feel they are "successful" and "it means they are more likely to think like Conservatives and vote conservative" this from the chancellor of a party that 'claims' to represent all sections of society, and yet feels that those who earn more money are "more likely to feel successful" and therefore "more likely to feel like Conservatives and vote conservative"
    Why would that be the case, or even enter his head, if, as they constantly lie, they care about and represent all sections of society equally?

    I'm quoting from the the paper that many righties see as almost their gospel.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581860/Osborne-People-paying-40p-tax-feel-joining-aspirational-classes-success-Tory-MPs-accuse-Chancellor-insulting-middle-earners.html#ixzz2wJHyallK
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    Eh? Osborne thinks (from what he is quoted as saying) that HE believes that once a person is earing enough to be taxed at 40% that they will "feel they are a success"
    what's that if it's not the Tory chancellor saying that in his opinion, and he believes it to be an opinion shared by those inclined to vote Conservative, that how much a person earns is the way to indicate how successful they are?



    Exactly my point, Osborne is saying that he is of the opinion that people who earn above a certain amount feel they are "successful" and "it means they are more likely to think like Conservatives and vote conservative" this from the chancellor of a party that 'claims' to represent all sections of society, and yet feels that those who earn more money are "more likely to feel successful" and therefore "more likely to feel like Conservatives and vote conservative"
    Why would that be the case, or even enter his head, if, as they constantly lie, they care about and represent all sections of society equally?

    I'm quoting from the the paper that many righties see as almost their gospel.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581860/Osborne-People-paying-40p-tax-feel-joining-aspirational-classes-success-Tory-MPs-accuse-Chancellor-insulting-middle-earners.html#ixzz2wJHyallK

    but that is not what you said. you said that effectively you had straight from the horses mouth, proof positive, that the tories measure success by income.

    you have to make up your mind on the daily mail. i know no righties that regard it as their gospel. but you certainly don't. you don't ever take anything it says as true. except today.
  • OLD HIPPY GUYOLD HIPPY GUY Posts: 28,199
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    Strange that when the Mail prints something that the left can use to hit the Tories with it is the fountain of all truth but a pack of lies when the shoe is on the other foot.

    Strange that when the Mail prints something the Tories can hit the left with it is the fountain of all truth but a pack of lies when the shoe is on the other foot.

    Although, I should imagine that printing a direct quote from the chancellor, that is "a pack of lies" might well find them in deep 'doo doo' as the chancellor has lots and lots of moolah and can afford the very best legal representation, unlike 'Joe Blogs' the unemployed disabled bedroom thief, for example.
  • OLD HIPPY GUYOLD HIPPY GUY Posts: 28,199
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    flagpole wrote: »
    but that is not what you said. you said that effectively you had straight from the horses mouth, proof positive, that the tories measure success by income.

    you have to make up your mind on the daily mail. i know no righties that regard it as their gospel. but you certainly don't. you don't ever take anything it says as true. except today.

    Of course it's true usually the only thing believe printed in the hate mail is the date, and then I'd check,
    however a quote from a leading politician that is a lie or even a deliberately misleading distortion of what was actually said, would be ground on which even the hate mail would hesitate to tread, I should think anyway.
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