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Hearing Voices Network
Yeah another thread on mental health by me. I'm just fascinated by it all really.
A few weeks back we had the enigmatic Jacqui Dillon come to talk to us, she's a voice hearer and works with the Hearing Voices Network often giving advice and training to medical professionals.
It does seem that voice hearers have a hard time in the NHS and that a common complaint is that the context of the hearing voices is completely ignored.
I'm just interested in the general opinion on whether people think that the work the hearing voices network do is worthwhile and important.
Basically, their main tenet is showing that hearing voices is often a normal response to abnormal circumstances. By doing this they hope that medical professionals actually listen to what the voice hearer is going through, because often there is a context that is being ignored. Frequently, voice hearing occurs after an intense personal trauma, which the voices hearing network say needs to be understood in order to aid recovery.
My own opinion is that I'm pretty glad that people like Jacqui Dillon have been able to get out of the health system and find a method of recovery that works for them.
It is a shame that the ones who seem to escape the system are those who are often intelligent and articulate..while those who are not often are left to suffer (I am generalising a lot here but I hope I can be forgiven for that). Often patients are given drug treatments and probably (guesswork here..) checked off as a success.
To me the only way it would be a success is if the person is able to return to a way of life that they are comfortable with. It is the person that should be treated..not the symptom!
I guess my post has a few generalisations and is not in-depth enough but I hope I'll still be able to get some opinion on this:).
Oh and if anyone is interested the hearing voices network website is found here: http://www.hearing-voices.org/
Jason
A few weeks back we had the enigmatic Jacqui Dillon come to talk to us, she's a voice hearer and works with the Hearing Voices Network often giving advice and training to medical professionals.
It does seem that voice hearers have a hard time in the NHS and that a common complaint is that the context of the hearing voices is completely ignored.
I'm just interested in the general opinion on whether people think that the work the hearing voices network do is worthwhile and important.
Basically, their main tenet is showing that hearing voices is often a normal response to abnormal circumstances. By doing this they hope that medical professionals actually listen to what the voice hearer is going through, because often there is a context that is being ignored. Frequently, voice hearing occurs after an intense personal trauma, which the voices hearing network say needs to be understood in order to aid recovery.
My own opinion is that I'm pretty glad that people like Jacqui Dillon have been able to get out of the health system and find a method of recovery that works for them.
It is a shame that the ones who seem to escape the system are those who are often intelligent and articulate..while those who are not often are left to suffer (I am generalising a lot here but I hope I can be forgiven for that). Often patients are given drug treatments and probably (guesswork here..) checked off as a success.
To me the only way it would be a success is if the person is able to return to a way of life that they are comfortable with. It is the person that should be treated..not the symptom!
I guess my post has a few generalisations and is not in-depth enough but I hope I'll still be able to get some opinion on this:).
Oh and if anyone is interested the hearing voices network website is found here: http://www.hearing-voices.org/
Jason
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I think it's great what they're doing but unfortunately mental health services are massively under-resourced. I can't remember all the details about the Hearing voices Network but (and correct me if I'm wrong) their focus I think is more on therapeutic methods of helping people rather than relying solely on medication. Unfortunately there don't seem to be enough psychiatrists and psychologists - it seems easier to tell people to keep taking the tablets and come back again next month.
The most common thing I've heard when people have described their experiences of hearing voices to me is that people don't listen to them. Also some people have a relationship with the voices they're hearing - it's not always a negative one.
Interesting subject.
Well if, as you've described, mainstream services don't work, then of course initiatives like HVN are important and worthwhile!
If it works, why would someone working in Mental Health have any doubts about its value? Sorry, but your response to the idea confuses me!
I understand it can be confusing it baffles me too but unfortunately for many health care professionals their way of thinking is almost analogous to religious beliefs. These people have probably been doing things the same way for 15 + years and believe in the theory very much.
In fact some have described actually listening to the voice hearer as 'colluding with the voices'.
I've mentioned the HVN in passing to people and many have not heard of it. It seems to be something known to service users, health care professionals and students. I think that's something that needs to be changed. I'm sure care givers of service users would very much be interested in the work of HVN.
Jason
I don't think it's that anyone doubts it's value, I think it's more a case that resources are not made available in order to put it's principles into nationwide practice. It's more time comsuming.
In my previous job it was virtually impossible for people to get adequate services that encompassed therapy, support, adequate monitoring of medication and so on - I'm talking about people with long-term mental health difficulties. A lot of people were lucky if they saw a psychiatrist once a month. And if they managed to get referred to a psychologist as well that was a bonus. There are some specialist centres and schemes that do some fantastic work but I think by and large they're few and far between.
Well it's getting on for 15 years since I did my training and it's disheartening to read your post because people were saying the exact same things 15 years ago.
I appreciate that services are under-resourced, but surely the whole point and philosophy of organisations like HVN is that they work independently of mainstream services?
I would have thought that HVN would be appealing to mainstream services for less intervention, not more? Fewer drug treatments, less medication-orientated psychiatry, fewer appointments, greater independence?
What disturbs me is that the first response of many (not all) working within mental health is conditioned initially by the question of 'control' i.e. should these people be allowed to take matters into their own hands, even when it is working?
I appreciate that those working directly with service users on a day to day basis can only work with the tools they are given, but why so little questioning of the tools when, for example, success rates with schizophrenia are now lower than they were before the invention of major tranquillisers?
There's a particular guy who I won't name who works as a manager in an NHS Trust. He's a mental health professional and he dresses up his way of dealing with things. He makes out that he thinks the most important thing is if the person is happy living with their condition. His department also have the resources to be able to provide alternative therapies.
However, he has admitted that he is more inclined to go with drug treatments because 'they work'.
Personally, it just seems to me that these drugs just put the person into some sort of stupor and it doesn't even suppress their voices!
The new mental health act isn't looking too clever either:(.
Jason
Yes, and more therapeutic work. It's the therapeutic support that's lacking. I think that's the point that a lot of people who have gone through psychiatric services have been making for years. Although medication can make a huge and fantastic difference to many people, there are also many that benefit more from having the opportunity of, for example, finding the root cause cause of their illness, working through coping mechanisms and so on. That opportunity doesn't come with medication alone.
Some people will never be fully independent - others may. But I think it should be a balance between maximising independence (and that'll vary with each individual), providing support where appropriate and minimising risk.
Also I guess success can be measured in several ways.
Actually, that's what I was told as well - not to put your own expectations and experiences of what's acceptable and what isn't onto someone else. You can only go so far with that though otherwise people can end up dead or dangerously ill (not only talking about mental illness here by the way!).
If only it actually worked out that way the majority of the time then I think a lot of service users would be much happier. Some of the stories they tell are shocking. I've often found myself in tears listening to them:(.
Jason
Wow seriously? She certainly was an enigmatic person..although I didn't really ask that many questions..too many of the other people on the course were spending the lecture pretty much being rather rabid about the N.H.S.
While I believe the work the HVN do is very very important, I also think we shouldn't be so quick to rubbish psychiatry.
Will you be going to the conference then? I would have gone but I can't really afford it:(.
Jason
Half of the NHS never seems to take me seriously, they just tell me that I'll get over it, even if I have been living with them for 20 years. The other half seems to want throw me into some therapy that I've had before that, for me, just does not work. When they realise that, they leave me out on my own.
I find it exceptionally frustrating. I feel as though I have exhausted every avenue available, and now, I am so reliant and in such a deep rooted relationship with the scores of voices in my head that I no longer want help with them. They represent more of me than my real personality does. Sometimes I prefer, sometimes I say, a lot of the time, I prefer my voices to real people. I don't know if that's a reflection on me or others!
I do keep going back to HVN and similar charites/organisations though.
I do believe the HVN may be able to help you in terms of finding a therapy that works for you..they definitely should have someone you can talk to...sorry if this is something you know already..just wanting to help really:).
Glad to hear you've found a way to deal with it..the HVN do some good work though if you ever need anyone to talk to:).
Jason
I don't know what they are. I don't understand them at all. I don't know how you know you are hearing them, or if you're just hearing yourself.
The only explanation I can offer is that voice hearing tends to occur as a result of some sort of traumatic experience.
It could be 'hearing yourself' although I don't want to suggest that I actually know a lot about this area.
You could try the website http://www.hearing-voices.org/ as I would assume they have an explanation about voice hearing:).
Jason
Is anorexia a 'traumatic event,' or a cause of hearing voices, do you suppose? My friend is badly anorexic and I wondered if it was related.
I suppose it could be related ..there are cases of people with eating disorders hearing voices..but I don't really know enough about the area.
I wouldn't say that the anorexia causes the voices, more that they are both a reaction to something else ..but of course my thoughts are only based on theory ..the best person to talk to about it would probably be your friend:).
Jason
2. anorexia can be a trigger i suppose (i'm not the authority but i know a bit) but anorexia is more (like voice hearing) a reaction to trauma. Anorexia tends to be about control and voice hearing is to do with dissasscociation. Parts of your life and feelings not dealt with can take form as voices. But voices are different to having your own thoughts in your head. often they are confusing sometimes scary and can be male, female and sound like anyone else. The first step to dealing with hearing voices is not to think of it as an illness, as if the voice hearer is to blame for anything bad that might have happened to them. Voice hearing is a natural response.
Can you believe i just wrote that off the top of my head? I can't
oh and 3. Never actually seen my mum talk at a conference but thinking of doing so. and lol not cheap but money is worthwhile and going to a good cause! It is inspiring to have a mum who does something that's important to her and is important in the big scheme of things. Its funny, she was the one who actually spotted this thread...
and yes i agree that psychiatry isn't a model that should be completely scrapped, but something that is based around the idea of 'treating someone' and pathologozing isn't necessarily going help people without some serious change. or, to put it simply - having someone understand and listen whole lot better than pills. and more cost effective if everyone is made aware
I attended a recent HVN conference, and I've got a few threads that I started still on the go in the online forum, threads about V2K weapons and suchlike. My angle isn't appreciated by certain people there. HVN is a bit of an "Uncle Tom" organisation, not exactly the radical bunch they sometimes pose as being. They certainly don't represent the voice-hearers that find me on the internet, or who find (say) Dr Caroline Lucas MEP, who nowadays kindly refers those that contact her to me, I learnt this week. HVN is not a safe and friendly environment for psychiatric survivors and refuseniks, in my limited experience. It's a Hegelian synthesis of a thesis and an antithesis some of us think are irreconcilable. For a start, its online forum is actually hosted inside a Mental Health forum (as people keep reminding me, for some reason), which is naturally going to make voice-hearers who don't define themselves as "mentally ill" feel excluded.
Find out what I'm talking about by visiting (say):
http://www.mentalhealthforum.net/forum/showthread.php?t=358
http://www.mentalhealthforum.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39
John Allman
www.thatfund.org
www.slavery.org.uk
www.AllianceForChange.org.uk
"Now we see the violence inherent in the system" [Monty Python]