Imagine finding Buffy (like the OP's done) years after it was originally broadcast.
What a treat!
It's one of the best things that's ever been on TV.
You don't have to tell me twice. I think I have seen a little bit of an episode before however. I've no idea of the episode or season number but it was one where Spike was moping in Willy's Bar and Buffy came to find him. Does that episode sound familiar to anyone? Obviously don't spoil it for me though because I only saw that particular bit.
It's part of the University of California, same as the real life UCLA, UC Berkeley, etc.
Although most (or at least many) Universities in the US have "University" in their title, "College" has long been a generic term used in the US to refer to Universities and other places of higher education.
Thanks to both you (and Wikipedia!) for clearing that up. Anyway, here as promised is my first Angel review.
City of Angels
- Drunk Angel? I think that might well be one of the best introductions to a series ever. Angel if you're somehow reading this please never change. Kind of wishful thinking for a show redemption but ah well never mind.
- You know for a second there I thought Angel was actually going to kill that pack of people for fun. Which reminds me - does anyone else think it would have made more sense if the spin-off began once he returned from Acathla's Hell Dimension (was it ever explained how he escaped by the way? Don't answer if it's an upcoming spoiler) since at the point he had already been isolated from Buffy and friends. I'm not saying their reasons for parting didn't make sense but I don't know - I think I would have liked that idea better. Better still if Angel had remained evil because how often do you see a sci-fi/fantasy programme where the main antagonist is a soulless monster?
- I quite like the Angel theme tune though in my honest opinion it's got nothing on Buffy's. Who knows, maybe it'll grow on me at some point in the future?
- Doyle is a guy?! I just assumed that Doyle was the girl on the cover of the DVD. Who is the girl on the cover of the DVD? On second thought she does look like Cordelia...
- I have to admit Angel is probably one of my favourite characters in the franchise at this point. I wasn't so sure on his characterization at first - I didn't really like the whole mystery stranger route they tried to go down in Season 1 - but he has really grown on me and I love that they're now exploring the whole awkward vampire angle. To quote Angel himself though, I love that Cordelia sort of hasn't.
- Did I just say that Cordelia hasn't changed? It's strange to think how far she's fallen since Season 1. That being said, the twist that she's poor seems a little stereotypical in a certain respect. I don't know why but I feel like I've seen this sort of trope before. Then again I suppose it's a life being an actor. It kinda reminds of the episode where Joey went to Vegas in Friends.
- You'd think it was obvious that Russell was a Vampire considering what this show is about but I didn't see it coming and neither did I anticipate Tina's death. I thought that Angel would save her for sure especially when you consider this is episode one.
- Wait a minute...how did Angel contact Doyle? Or did Doyle just know that Angel was looking for him thanks to his visions?
- I really loved the scene between Cordy and Russell and I felt really bad at the bit where she's talking about how she 'narrowly' missed out on having her hands featured in that commercial. It also made me think of the Vegas episode of Friends once again ('This hand is your hand! This hand is my hand! Oh wait, that's your hand! No wait, it's my hand!)
- Also, 'You're a Vampire! No I'm not.' was probably like the best thing ever.
- One of the few minor quibbles I have with this universe is how uninteresting some of the fight scenes are but then again they're not that long so it doesn't exactly bother me as much as it should. I suppose that in itself is another problem however - is it just me or do a lot of Buffy episodes resolve themselves far too quickly after a great build-up?
- I loved the image of Russell flying through the air and burning up. And I'm guessing the senior partners will be the main antagonists for this particular season?
- This is completely random but it just occurred to me why Sunnydale is considered a hotspot for Vampire activity. Come to mention it, it's also kinda ironic too.
- Did the ending scene with Angel on top of the building all the while we see some of the city's iconography - however brief - remind anyone else of Captain Jack in Torchwood?
- Ultimately, I really liked this episode and I think the premise has some potential too. I just have a quick question though - why was Angel given a spin-off? Is it because he was the breakout character or because he was seen to have the most storytelling potential? Perhaps it was both? But yeah, I thought it was good although I did prefer the Buffy pilot.
City of Angels
- Doyle is a guy?! I just assumed that Doyle was the girl on the cover of the DVD. Who is the girl on the cover of the DVD? On second thought she does look like Cordelia...
You didn't realise SMG was Buffy, you didn't recognise Cordelia from the cover and you thought Doyle was a chick?...maybe it's time you get down to specsavers.
- You'd think it was obvious that Russell was a Vampire considering what this show is about but I didn't see it coming and neither did I anticipate Tina's death. I thought that Angel would save her for sure especially when you consider this is episode one
That's the Buffyverse for you. Just like Buffy isn't a typical little blonde bimbo, Angel isn't the typical square jawed hero who always wins the day or gets it right.
Wait a minute...how did Angel contact Doyle? Or did Doyle just know that Angel was looking for him thanks to his visions?
Angel wasn't looking for Doyle. He was out there doing his own thing. The Powers sent Doyle to Angel.
- One of the few minor quibbles I have with this universe is how uninteresting some of the fight scenes are but then again they're not that long so it doesn't exactly bother me as much as it should. I suppose that in itself is another problem however - is it just me or do a lot of Buffy episodes resolve themselves far too quickly after a great build-up?
You'd be hard pressed to find another show that with that amount and quality of fight scenes (I'm a TaeKwonDo black belt with over 20 years experience so I know good fighting scenes when I see them), Martial Law perhaps.
- Did the ending scene with Angel on top of the building all the while we see some of the city's iconography - however brief - remind anyone else of Captain Jack in Torchwood?
Wash you mouth!! >:( Angel was made long before that rip off merchant came along. Although that scene itself on Angel was probably "a homage" to Batman. ;-)
Some of your other questions can't really be answered at this stage such as why Angel was brought back, or the extent of Wolfram & Hart's role in the series.
Imagine finding Buffy (like the OP's done) years after it was originally broadcast.
What a treat!
It's one of the best things that's ever been on TV.
True, but I imagine some people coming into it now won't gel with it, not in the early stages at least, they've been spoilt by the ultra violence and sex of HBO and the rest of cable softcore trash. Buffy will seem tame by comparison (although it gets darker in later seasons).
Although I'm not going to pretend it wasn't disappointing, I don't really mind to be perfectly honest if only because I imagine not that much was spoiled in the grand scheme of things.
Besides, some of the upcoming stuff sounds really quite cool although I now have four seasons to figure out why sweet, innocent Willow turns to the dark side And I feel bad for Tara already
Anyway, all is forgiven
Back in Season 4/Season 1 Land however (can we stay there please ) I've now watched the first episode of Angel and I have to say I really enjoyed it. I'll be sure to post some thoughts later when I'm feeling less tired
Really sorry. I fear I may have ruined it for you as the joy of watching Buffy not knowing what is coming next is the best part. (Mind you, once I discovered spoilers back in the day I was spoiled for most of season 6 and 7 but only up to a certain point.)
Some of your other questions can't really be answered at this stage such as why Angel was brought back, or the extent of Wolfram & Hart's role in the series.
They can't be answered
because it was never answered. Nobody knows for sure why Angel came back. Some speculate it was the Powers that Be, some speculate it was because he opened the portal soulless but was sacrificed for it with a soul, some say it was the First.
because it was never answered. Nobody knows for sure why Angel came back. Some speculate it was the Powers that Be, some speculate it was because he opened the portal soulless but was sacrificed for it with a soul, some say it was the First.
I think it can be answered based on what we know. Angel having a soul when he was sacrificed is how he was able to be returned. As for the who, it was The Powers, who brought him back to fight the good fight, although unbeknown to them, Jasmine who was one of The Powers, had her own agenda and manipulated events to suit that agenda.
You didn't realise SMG was Buffy, you didn't recognise Cordelia from the cover and you thought Doyle was a chick?...maybe it's time you get down to specsavers.
Funny thing is I actually do need glasses. And in fairness I only thought Doyle was a chick before he rocked up
Angel wasn't looking for Doyle. He was out there doing his own thing. The Powers sent Doyle to Angel.
I meant later on, when Angel and him prepared to take down Russell. Did he just stay in contact with him? He just seemed to turn up at his door without any explanation.
You'd be hard pressed to find another show that with that amount and quality of fight scenes (I'm a TaeKwonDo black belt with over 20 years experience so I know good fighting scenes when I see them), Martial Law perhaps.
I guess because I'm just to accustomed to seeing fights in either CGI or animation that real fighting is somewhat lost on me. There have been numerous fights I have enjoyed though as mentioned I do wish that some of them were a little bit longer - recently Buffy versus Faith for example.
Some of your other questions can't really be answered at this stage such as why Angel was brought back, or the extent of Wolfram & Hart's role in the series.
It's good to know they're going to be explained though.
True, but I imagine some people coming into it now won't gel with it, not in the early stages at least, they've been spoilt by the ultra violence and sex of HBO and the rest of cable softcore trash. Buffy will seem tame by comparison (although it gets darker in later seasons).
This reminds me - did anyone else here really like Buffy Season 1? I know that a few people find it inconsistent and dull but personally I felt it hit the ground running. Of course there were episodes that I didn't enjoy but it had some really good ones too, like Welcome to the Hellmouth and The Pack for instance.
As for your point, I wasn't exactly expecting ultra violence and sex so I don't mind that it isn't included. Besides, is it just me or would lots of violence and sex feel extremely out of place? I know recently there was that episode where Faith and Xander had sex but I think - at least in regards to the aftermath - that was played for laughs more than anything else. Also, in referral to the scene dare I say that I still found it hot even though you didn't see much. Y'know sometimes less is more :kitty:
Really sorry. I fear I may have ruined it for you as the joy of watching Buffy not knowing what is coming next is the best part. (Mind you, once I discovered spoilers back in the day I was spoiled for most of season 6 and 7 but only up to a certain point.)
Don't worry about it. One thing I really like about Buffy is how just about every single episode contains a good twist so, like I said, I doubt all that much was spoiled in the grand scheme of things.
Speaking of which, I just finished watching Episode 2 of Season 4. I thought it was pretty good and an improvement over the first. I'll post up my thoughts later but needless to say Kathy - what was that?
I can't watch it on Scy fi , it's heavily censored and I feel like i've only watched 2/3 of what the show was intended to be . Do yourself a favour and watch the DVD's , the show feels more complete when viewed that way .
The 90's in general were just an amazing time for science fiction and Buffy was just among them. I always feel proud whenever they do top science fiction lists and you can bet that Buffy normally makes the top 10/15 alongside the likes of Star trek, doctor who, the x files etc.
It's just such a gem of a show. It is my fav show of all time. I re-watch it every year. I know everything about it. If i went on mastermind, Buffy would be my specialist topic
I meant later on, when Angel and him prepared to take down Russell. Did he just stay in contact with him? He just seemed to turn up at his door without any explanation.
Can't remember tbh, I guess they did stay in contact and arranged it.
By the way, did you spot the first mini crossover?
Can't remember tbh, I guess they did stay in contact and arranged it.
By the way, did you spot the first mini crossover?
Angel calling Buffy? I was gonna comment on it but it wasn't really substantial enough to warrant any strong opinion to be perfectly honest. Nice to see it was included though.
I can't watch it on Scy fi , it's heavily censored and I feel like i've only watched 2/3 of what the show was intended to be . Do yourself a favour and watch the DVD's , the show feels more complete when viewed that way .
I heard it might be which is hence why I stopped using it about 2 episodes into Season 3. I might double back and watch Seasons 1-2 when I've finished the rest of the series to see what I've missed. Does anyone know if there are edited on Netflix as well?
Living Conditions
- 'Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer...' Before Giles started doing it this brief bit of narration was done by somebody else. Anyone know what happened to him? I miss both him and his dramatic voice.
- You know at first I thought they were gonna do a joke where Buffy pushes Kathy into the bushes only to discover there was no monster there and that rather she was just imagining things. I don't know, it might have been funny.
- Speaking of which, something tells me that Kathy is 'The One' as opposed to Buffy.
- 'It's nice out here.' 'Yes, sometimes I take my tea out here.'
- Parker reminds me of Zac Effron for some reason. Starting to think he'll be Buffy's new boyfriend.
- When the Scooby Gang were talking about the 'Drive By' Flirting Technique did that remind anyone else of the sort of conversations they would usually have on Curb Your Enthusiasm/Seinfeld?
- What was up with the shot where Kathy spilt ketchup on Buffy's sweater? It was mental XD
- I know Buffy and Kathy are probably going to end up being friends at some point but can I just say that I think it would be really interesting if they did not? As demonstrated by Buffy drinking the milk it would also be funny.
- Oz is so cool about everything. 'On the plus side you killed the bench which was looking shifty.' lol.
- So wait...Kathy's a demon? I'm not so sure I liked that twist although I do appreciate the mechanics behind it - for instance stealing a soul so she could fit in. In a way, it sort of reminds me of Anya last season.
- Wait, is Buffy actually possessed then or just sleep deprived? I'm leaning towards being possessed because why else would she knock out Xander and Oz?
- And no sooner had I typed that then the answer came.
- That resolution was strange but I liked it. Sort of. My favourite part was when Kathy complained, 'Stop treating me like I'm 900.' But like I said it was still very strange. Also, could someone tell me what those dreams were about and how Buffy and Kathy both experienced the exact same ones? I know they gave an explanation in the episode itself but I was distracted by something and it passed me by.
- I thought that episode was pretty good to be fair and I certainly liked it a lot more than Episode 1. Not that much seemed to happen though I did like that they didn't go down the obvious route and have Buffy and Kathy eventually make up.
- Spike's back next episode. Hopefully it'll be worth the wait.
Angel calling Buffy? I was gonna comment on it but it wasn't really substantial enough to warrant any strong opinion to be perfectly honest. Nice to see it was included though.
I heard it might be which is hence why I stopped using it about 2 episodes into Season 3. I might double back and watch Seasons 1-2 when I've finished the rest of the series to see what I've missed. Does anyone know if there are edited on Netflix as well?
Living Conditions
- 'Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer...' Before Giles started doing it this brief bit of narration was done by somebody else. Anyone know what happened to him? I miss both him and his dramatic voice.
- You know at first I thought they were gonna do a joke where Buffy pushes Kathy into the bushes only to discover there was no monster there and that rather she was just imagining things. I don't know, it might have been funny.
- Speaking of which, something tells me that Kathy is 'The One' as opposed to Buffy.
- 'It's nice out here.' 'Yes, sometimes I take my tea out here.'
- Parker reminds me of Zac Effron for some reason. Starting to think he'll be Buffy's new boyfriend.
- When the Scooby Gang were talking about the 'Drive By' Flirting Technique did that remind anyone else of the sort of conversations they would usually have on Curb Your Enthusiasm/Seinfeld?
- What was up with the shot where Kathy spilt ketchup on Buffy's sweater? It was mental XD
- I know Buffy and Kathy are probably going to end up being friends at some point but can I just say that I think it would be really interesting if they did not? As demonstrated by Buffy drinking the milk it would also be funny.
- Oz is so cool about everything. 'On the plus side you killed the bench which was looking shifty.' lol.
- So wait...Kathy's a demon? I'm not so sure I liked that twist although I do appreciate the mechanics behind it - for instance stealing a soul so she could fit in. In a way, it sort of reminds me of Anya last season.
- Wait, is Buffy actually possessed then or just sleep deprived? I'm leaning towards being possessed because why else would she knock out Xander and Oz?
- And no sooner had I typed that then the answer came.
- That resolution was strange but I liked it. Sort of. My favourite part was when Kathy complained, 'Stop treating me like I'm 900.' But like I said it was still very strange. Also, could someone tell me what those dreams were about and how Buffy and Kathy both experienced the exact same ones? I know they gave an explanation in the episode itself but I was distracted by something and it passed me by.
- I thought that episode was pretty good to be fair and I certainly liked it a lot more than Episode 1. Not that much seemed to happen though I did like that they didn't go down the obvious route and have Buffy and Kathy eventually make up.
- Spike's back next episode. Hopefully it'll be worth the wait.
If I remember correctly , it wasn't a dream it was a ritual that she was vaguely aware of while she was half asleep . Kathy was lying , as it was her doing the ritual .
the 1st season for me just has a weird feeling to it I cant describe it:D
It also feels like 90s in a bottle I know 3 seasons take place in the 90s but the 1st just has that feeling to it which I cant describe.
I love the errie music tones which we never really heard in the show again
listen to the music in the pilot when buffy and angel are in the crypt then the music in when buffys sneaking out her room through the window
its all so weird and most likely done on the cheap:p which probley added to the errieness of the sound.
The show although not very dark story wise looked very dark and errie in season 1
Ah, the joy of watching Buffy for the first time! You're so lucky
My sister loved BTVS and Angel and I was super skeptical about watching either of them (I was in a Stargate phase at the time!) but she managed to convince me to watch Once More With Feeling from S6...I hated it!! I was so confused that I really didn't enjoy it.
However she did manage to get me to start from the beginning (I traded her S1 Buffy for S1 Stargate SG-1!) and from then on in I was hooked and couldn't stop watching...I'd go so far as to say I became a bigger fan than her
S4 was not a favourite first time around but with each rewatch it grows on me...I'm currently on This Years Girl
the 1st season for me just has a weird feeling to it I cant describe it:D
It also feels like 90s in a bottle I know 3 seasons take place in the 90s but the 1st just has that feeling to it which I cant describe.
I love the errie music tones which we never really heard in the show again
listen to the music in the pilot when buffy and angel are in the crypt then the music in when buffys sneaking out her room through the window
its all so weird and most likely done on the cheap:p which probley added to the errieness of the sound.
The show although not very dark story wise looked very dark and errie in season 1
I know what you mean thinking back. It sort of had this unearthly atmosphere that as of Season 4 has yet to be surpassed. I don't even think there are any light episodes are there? Apparently though it's going to get much darker again as it goes along.
Ah, the joy of watching Buffy for the first time! You're so lucky
And to think one day I'm gonna be like you - feeling envious of all those who get to start watching Buffy afresh
What changed your mind about the show can I ask? Was there a particular episode or moment that did the trick or were you like me and more or less hooked from the off (or rather the first episode of Season 1, as obviously you weren't hooked from the off )
By the way, I'm going to go watch the second episode of Angel now and will post my thoughts at some point tomorrow
I laugh just thinking about Kathy. The thing I love about Buffy is when they do comedy scenes or episodes it's genuinely funny even though it isn't a comedy. I loved the fight Buffy has with Kathy in the dorm and the way she has Believe on a loop.
Like, just to clarify, this girl is a freak and something is wrong with her as is at Uni but she worships Celine Dion and Cher.
I feel very fortunate that I watched Buffy as it aired as in those days, spoilers weren't easy to come by and it was shocking when Jenny died.
I like every season in it's own way, I find with season 7 I have to watch that season in one go, where as others I can dip in and out of easily.
Also if you haven't seen Once Upon A Time, you could check it out in future, I think it's got some similar feels to Buffy with Jane Espenson writing a lot of the episodes and her writing style is very noticeable.
What changed your mind about the show can I ask? Was there a particular episode or moment that did the trick or were you like me and more or less hooked from the off (or rather the first episode of Season 1, as obviously you weren't hooked from the off )
As soon as I watched Welcome to the Hellmouth and The Harvest I knew I was going to love it. The witty dialogue and interesting characters and their dynamics were so good it just pulled me in and I never looked back! I am now a fully fledged lover of all things Joss Whedon
And trust me, once you get to OMWF in S6 and if you remember this convo, you'll realise why it made zero sense as a starting off point for watching the show!!
I laugh just thinking about Kathy. The thing I love about Buffy is when they do comedy scenes or episodes it's genuinely funny even though it isn't a comedy. I loved the fight Buffy has with Kathy in the dorm and the way she has Believe on a loop.
I know what you mean and I liked that bit
Also if you haven't seen Once Upon A Time, you could check it out in future, I think it's got some similar feels to Buffy with Jane Espenson writing a lot of the episodes and her writing style is very noticeable.
I've actually heard lots of good things about that show but it's not my top priority at the moment. I really want to start watching Lost and 24 plus maybe Battlestar Galactica and Breaking Bad so I'll probably start watching at least one of those shows first when I finish my current viewings of Arrested Development and Luther.
Anyway, here's my review of the second episode of Angel. Sorry that it took me so long to get up but I didn't get the chance to watch it last night and I've been too busy for most of the day.
Lonely Hearts
- Based off the title, I'm wondering if Angel tries speed dating in this episode? Perhaps as a way to get over Buffy although maybe it won't be his idea at first? Something tells me though it'll be more disgusting than that. My mind immediately raced to the idea of witches when I then thought about gruesome things involving hearts.
- I'm not really a clubbing person and I'm not even remotely sure why this is important but can someone tell which days are more sociable for clubbing - Fridays or Saturdays? Obviously it'll all depend on where you live but I don't know I always wondered.
- Kevin's evil isn't he?
- On second watch, I see what people mean about the opening being so 90's it hurts XD
- 'Seriously I wasn't hitting on you.' ^_^
- I'm wondering what the significance of the star tattoo on Kevin's arm is. I'm not really sure how it ties into witches. Maybe it's some kind of symbol for his cult or something?
- Could someone help me out? Has Angel 'always' had the curse where if he experiences one true moment of happiness he loses his soul or was that just the one Miss Calendar put on him? Also, the curse was intended to punish him yes? Well then surely when he regresses back to his evil form it will be much more punishing for his unfortunate victims? I'm sure there was a good explanation given at some point and I imagine it was the one that Miss Calender put on him because otherwise why would he have allowed himself to have sex with Buffy? Hmm. I'm sort of confused. It's been a little while now since I saw those episodes.
- Ooh Sharon killed Kevin? Good twist!
- I just knew when Kate told Angel to go to Hell his response would be something like that.
- I'm trying to think of what the common link is between Sharon's victims. My first thoughts were that they all were virgins but then Kevin can't have been a virgin can he? Maybe she just feeds off orgasms in general? There was a monster in Torchwood that once did that.
- Jesus Sharon what the hell was that?!
- To be perfectly honest, I wish they'd have come up with a better name than Angel Investigations. I'm guessing that Cordelia invented that?
- I'm not sure why if the creature is feeling lonely it then continues to go after lonely people? I mean why not go after popular people unless lonely people have sex more often and it still needs that orgasm energy?
- Do you know I thought the bartender would turn out to be the creature. I don't know why but I also thought it was convenient that it's weakness was fire but then again I suppose fire will hurt most things including demons :kitty:
- Ultimately, I thought this episode was average at best. I'm not really sure I understood the creature's motivations and I didn't find the concept behind it all that intriguing. I'm also not really sure that I like Kate as a character but then again I didn't really like Oz and Angel at first and they're now amongst two of my favourites. I also hope Cordelia and Doyle have a more active part to play in the next episode although I really hope they don't get together. It can't just be me who seriously hopes that she gets back with Xander which is ironic really considering that in the beginning of Season 3 I so wanted he and Willow to get together. But yeah, I didn't really this episode much. And according to the links I was given next episode is a crossover yes? I'm guessing that Spike is involved somehow.
- Could someone help me out? Has Angel 'always' had the curse where if he experiences one true moment of happiness he loses his soul or was that just the one Miss Calendar put on him? Also, the curse was intended to punish him yes? Well then surely when he regresses back to his evil form it will be much more punishing for his unfortunate victims? I'm sure there was a good explanation given at some point and I imagine it was the one that Miss Calender put on him because otherwise why would he have allowed himself to have sex with Buffy? Hmm. I'm sort of confused. It's been a little while now since I saw those episodes.
Angelus was originally cursed by gypsies in 1898. Jenny was a descendant of the gypsy clan. She was sent to observe Angel to see if he continued to suffer remorse and guilt for Angelus' past sins. She didn't know about the second part of the curse (the true happiness bit). I don't think Angel himself knew either. It's true that when the second part of the curse kicked in, it was the people around him who would suffer, I guess that was the gypsies idea of a sick joke. The idea being that whoever had lead him to true happiness would probably die at the hands of Angelus. The gypsies might have been his victims, but I don't think they were particularly nice people.
Angelus was originally cursed by gypsies in 1898. Jenny was a descendant of the gypsy clan. She was sent to observe Angel to see if he continued to suffer remorse and guilt for Angelus' past sins. She didn't know about the second part of the curse (the true happiness bit). I don't think Angel himself knew either. It's true that when the second part of the curse kicked in, it was the people around him who would suffer, I guess that was the gypsies idea of a sick joke. The idea being that whoever had lead him to true happiness would probably die at the hands of Angelus. The gypsies might have been his victims, but I don't think they were particularly nice people.
I'm pausing the episode every ten or so minutes to write a few lines down and then expanding on them ever so slightly when it comes to the thread. I think it's just easier and less time consuming and allows me to talk about a wide variety of things as opposed to just saying, 'I liked this. I didn't like that. Boy, these pretzels are making me thirsty.'
Angelus was originally cursed by gypsies in 1898. Jenny was a descendant of the gypsy clan. She was sent to observe Angel to see if he continued to suffer remorse and guilt for Angelus' past sins. She didn't know about the second part of the curse (the true happiness bit). I don't think Angel himself knew either. It's true that when the second part of the curse kicked in, it was the people around him who would suffer, I guess that was the gypsies idea of a sick joke. The idea being that whoever had lead him to true happiness would probably die at the hands of Angelus. The gypsies might have been his victims, but I don't think they were particularly nice people.
I might be completely wrong on this, but I always assumed that Angel experiencing a moment of true happiness was actually him breaking the curse, rather than it being a part of it.
Think of it like the old curses of fairytales. The person who curses someone doesn't create a "get-out clause." That's just a condition of the spell. In the case of Angelus, he wasn't cursed with a soul so he could find redemption, but so he could suffer for all his evil deeds. The Gypsies wanted him to suffer for all eternity, as punishment. But if he were to ever experience true happiness, the curse has failed. He's no longer in eternal torment for his crimes, as he's managed to get to a state where there is only happiness.
Essentially, Angel beat the curse by failing to be in permanent pain. The curse is lifted not because that's what the gypsies wanted to happen (they wanted him to suffer for eternity) but because he had defeated it. Its purpose had failed and he was about to become a happy, content man. Just like when evil curses are thwarted and they end because they were beaten.
The evil godmother doesn't want sleeping beauty to be kissed by the handsome prince and the curse to be lifted. That's just its failure, because loved conquered the curse. Similarly, love conquered Angel's curse, but it didn't end happily ever after in their case. I don't think the gypsies planned it to end that way, though, any more than the evil godmother did.
I might be completely wrong on this, but I always assumed that Angel experiencing a moment of true happiness was actually him breaking the curse, rather than it being a part of it.
Essentially, Angel beat the curse by failing to be in permanent pain. The curse is lifted not because that's what the gypsies wanted to happen (they wanted him to suffer for eternity) but because he had defeated it. Its purpose had failed and he was about to become a happy, content man. Just like when evil curses are thwarted and they end because they were beaten..
That makes sense. It would explain why the gypsies were still keeping an eye on him and why Enyos was unhapp/concerned about Angel seemingly no longer suffering.
This is completely random but it just occurred to me that Anthony Head played the Prime Minister in Little Britain. That show's gonna be even more fun the next time I watch it. Like Giles WTF are you doing? Anyway - moving on...
The Harsh Light of Day
- I just knew Harmony would turn out to be a Vampire for you see my Vampire sense was tingling. And I think it's fairly obvious that Spike is her boyfriend.
- What's the betting that Spike and Harmony will end up going to that Wolf House party?
- Would anyone else like to see an actual double date between Parker/Buffy and Spike/Harmony? I'm not really sure how it'd tie into an episode mind but who knows? It might be funny.
- I really ought to comment on that scene between Xander and Anya but ah... Well... Um...
- 'Is Antonio Banderas a Vampire?' 'No.' 'Can I make him a Vampire?' 'No.'
- Y'know I don't think I've ever seen two Vampires have sex before. Oh wait. No. I have.
- 'And the amazing thing. Still more romantic than Faith.'
- Buffy's laugh when she denies ever dating Spike was amazing XD
- Buffy and Parker certainly don't waste any time do they. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
- Everyone seems to be having sex in this episode. I don't know what else I was realistically expecting now that the show had moved up to College.
- It was really predictable that this would happen but Anya's not really over him is she?
- It's incredibly awkward to point this out but Harmony seems more like Spike's daughter than she does his lover in certain scenes. Speaking of which, I now want to see how Spike handles a baby or infant.
- 'Listen to me, you stupid bint.'
- There's certainly a lot of song placement going on in this episode. I'm not really sure I like it to be perfectly honest. It's got nothing to do with the music in general but more so the fact that there's too much music compared to other episodes really. I don't know - am I making a big deal out of nothing?
- Oh so they're going down that route with Parker? Gotta admit I didn't see it coming. I do feel bad for Buffy though and I'm sort of glad that I didn't comment on how good their chemistry seemed to be earlier. It would seem kinda misjudged now.
- So, according to Spike, even the squirrels are doing it now?!
- I did like that fight between Buffy and Spike although the resolution to the plot seemed a little easy. Then again I'm not really sure how else they were supposed to resolve it since it essentially amounted to taking a ring off of his finger.
- So it looks like the first crossover will be Oz going to see Angel to give him the ring. To be honest, I would have liked it to involve Spike somehow but then whose to say that won't happen? Also, my first reaction to the whole thing was 'Wow Angel's gonna lose a lot of its tension' but then again that seems stupid especially when I know he's gonna be around for at least another four seasons.
- I'm not really sure I liked the staging of that final scene - it seemed a little convenient they were all in a few feet of each other and I'm not entirely sure they had that much in common. I mean obviously they were all wronged by men but I don't think it's entirely fair to compare Xander to the likes of Spike and Parker especially when he only brushed Anya aside to go and save Buffy. I know that technically he was similar to Parker in the sense they both considered the sex as a one time thing but Xander seemed a lot more uncomfortable about the whole thing. If you can't tell, the reason I've gone into so much detail is because I'm trying not to offend anyone ^_^
- Ultimately, I enjoyed this episode for the most part but there wasn't really anything stand out to attract my attention. I also didn't think the concept was enthralling enough to get me hooked. Even if Spike wasn't originally going to find the ring - like Giles believed - it was sort of obvious he'd try and do something but even then I didn't really care what. I am glad that they brought back Anya and Spike though even if the latter needs to come back more often. I think that perhaps part of Spike's charm however is that he only appears every once in a while although - that being said - I did really like him in Season 2 when he was in quite a lot of the episodes.
Hello. Sorry to double post but I figured seeing as it's been a few days now it might be O.K. Anyway, just wanted to let you know I haven't forgotten about this thread and with any luck there should be a new Angel review up tomorrow
It's refreshing to hear your thoughts on your first watch.
I've just started a rewatch of buffy the other day.
I used to watch it when it aired on bbc2 it had the bad language and some stuff edited. So watching the DVDs was strange seeing new bits
Thank you, and I know what you mean about seeing new material in episodes which you've already seen. It was exactly the same when I saw the uncut version of Friends via the Complete Collection DVD. It should be interesting to eventually go back and see them myself. I mean - exempting the recap - I'm pretty sure they cut out Miss Calender's Funeral on the SyFy airing of that particular ep. Hmm. I suppose I'll just have to wait and see.
In the Dark
- Ah, so Spike is in this episode according to the corresponding DVD Menu. Considering that he and Oz have perhaps some of the driest humour in the series so far, I really do hope then that this will be the episode where they properly meet.
- I was seriously expecting Rachel to kill Lenny somehow - namely because that's what the plot of the last episode did. I'm immensely glad that she didn't however - namely because that's what the plot of the last episode did.
- 'No, not the hair. Never the hair.' I can already tell that Spike is going to make this episode for sure.
- So wait...Angel's not going to wear the Ring, at least not for now? I'm guessing then that perhaps he wants to die as a means of redemption? I'm also betting that Spike's going to find it. Somehow. Again.
- It's funny that Spike suggests that Angel should become a Vampire Ballerina because when he was gracefully practising his fighting poses just seconds before that's exactly what he reminded me of
- All this talk of getting invited in to people's homes is making me wonder: how does Angel get invited into restaurants and pubs? Would either Cordelia and Doyle be able to help him out on that front or does the rule just apply to traditional homes?
- The Freaky Church on Sunpoint? Throwaway expression or subtle allusion to a future plot point?
- First thing - something tells me the Doctor will turn on Spike. Second thing - Slutty the Vampire Slayer. Ha! It rhymes!
- Do you know I was wondering where Oz had gotten to. Playing for his band I suppose?
- 'Where's the Ring? Bloody Hell.' Anyone else think that Spike is like the British Gollum?
- Random thought but I'm wondering if Oz's van will turn up more often in Buffy cause after all they're the Scooby Gang are they not? They need their very own Mystery Machine! Plus not to mention they're in need of a dog.
- I really liked that final fight as well as Angel's reasoning for not wearing the Ring. It's gotten me wondering if Angel will eventually come to help out other supernatural creatures in the episodes to come? I really think that would help the series step up a gear.
- Ha! The Indestructible Ring was destroyed by a brick
- To conclude, I think this was a pretty solid episode to be fair. The only real nitpick I want to share is that there seemed to be a conflict of interesting amongst the plotting. I think it would have been much more interesting if they devoted an episode to a Vampire that had a fetish for children because I found that last scene on the pier borderline creepy. I also wish that Oz had been given more to do but then again it's not like he appears every once in a Blue - or rather Full - Moon. I'd also wish they'd devoted more time to the Lenny/Rachel Plot but to be perfectly honest I'm glad they did not. Not only did I completely forget about it towards the end but also it would have felt like a slight retread of Episode One.
Comments
You don't have to tell me twice. I think I have seen a little bit of an episode before however. I've no idea of the episode or season number but it was one where Spike was moping in Willy's Bar and Buffy came to find him. Does that episode sound familiar to anyone? Obviously don't spoil it for me though because I only saw that particular bit.
Thanks to both you (and Wikipedia!) for clearing that up. Anyway, here as promised is my first Angel review.
City of Angels
- Drunk Angel? I think that might well be one of the best introductions to a series ever. Angel if you're somehow reading this please never change. Kind of wishful thinking for a show redemption but ah well never mind.
- You know for a second there I thought Angel was actually going to kill that pack of people for fun. Which reminds me - does anyone else think it would have made more sense if the spin-off began once he returned from Acathla's Hell Dimension (was it ever explained how he escaped by the way? Don't answer if it's an upcoming spoiler) since at the point he had already been isolated from Buffy and friends. I'm not saying their reasons for parting didn't make sense but I don't know - I think I would have liked that idea better. Better still if Angel had remained evil because how often do you see a sci-fi/fantasy programme where the main antagonist is a soulless monster?
- I quite like the Angel theme tune though in my honest opinion it's got nothing on Buffy's. Who knows, maybe it'll grow on me at some point in the future?
- Doyle is a guy?! I just assumed that Doyle was the girl on the cover of the DVD. Who is the girl on the cover of the DVD? On second thought she does look like Cordelia...
- I have to admit Angel is probably one of my favourite characters in the franchise at this point. I wasn't so sure on his characterization at first - I didn't really like the whole mystery stranger route they tried to go down in Season 1 - but he has really grown on me and I love that they're now exploring the whole awkward vampire angle. To quote Angel himself though, I love that Cordelia sort of hasn't.
- Did I just say that Cordelia hasn't changed? It's strange to think how far she's fallen since Season 1. That being said, the twist that she's poor seems a little stereotypical in a certain respect. I don't know why but I feel like I've seen this sort of trope before. Then again I suppose it's a life being an actor. It kinda reminds of the episode where Joey went to Vegas in Friends.
- You'd think it was obvious that Russell was a Vampire considering what this show is about but I didn't see it coming and neither did I anticipate Tina's death. I thought that Angel would save her for sure especially when you consider this is episode one.
- Wait a minute...how did Angel contact Doyle? Or did Doyle just know that Angel was looking for him thanks to his visions?
- I really loved the scene between Cordy and Russell and I felt really bad at the bit where she's talking about how she 'narrowly' missed out on having her hands featured in that commercial. It also made me think of the Vegas episode of Friends once again ('This hand is your hand! This hand is my hand! Oh wait, that's your hand! No wait, it's my hand!)
- Also, 'You're a Vampire! No I'm not.' was probably like the best thing ever.
- One of the few minor quibbles I have with this universe is how uninteresting some of the fight scenes are but then again they're not that long so it doesn't exactly bother me as much as it should. I suppose that in itself is another problem however - is it just me or do a lot of Buffy episodes resolve themselves far too quickly after a great build-up?
- I loved the image of Russell flying through the air and burning up. And I'm guessing the senior partners will be the main antagonists for this particular season?
- This is completely random but it just occurred to me why Sunnydale is considered a hotspot for Vampire activity. Come to mention it, it's also kinda ironic too.
- Did the ending scene with Angel on top of the building all the while we see some of the city's iconography - however brief - remind anyone else of Captain Jack in Torchwood?
- Ultimately, I really liked this episode and I think the premise has some potential too. I just have a quick question though - why was Angel given a spin-off? Is it because he was the breakout character or because he was seen to have the most storytelling potential? Perhaps it was both? But yeah, I thought it was good although I did prefer the Buffy pilot.
You didn't realise SMG was Buffy, you didn't recognise Cordelia from the cover and you thought Doyle was a chick?...maybe it's time you get down to specsavers.
That's the Buffyverse for you. Just like Buffy isn't a typical little blonde bimbo, Angel isn't the typical square jawed hero who always wins the day or gets it right.
Angel wasn't looking for Doyle. He was out there doing his own thing. The Powers sent Doyle to Angel.
You'd be hard pressed to find another show that with that amount and quality of fight scenes (I'm a TaeKwonDo black belt with over 20 years experience so I know good fighting scenes when I see them), Martial Law perhaps.
Wash you mouth!! >:( Angel was made long before that rip off merchant came along. Although that scene itself on Angel was probably "a homage" to Batman. ;-)
Some of your other questions can't really be answered at this stage such as why Angel was brought back, or the extent of Wolfram & Hart's role in the series.
True, but I imagine some people coming into it now won't gel with it, not in the early stages at least, they've been spoilt by the ultra violence and sex of HBO and the rest of cable softcore trash. Buffy will seem tame by comparison (although it gets darker in later seasons).
Really sorry.
They can't be answered
Funny thing is I actually do need glasses. And in fairness I only thought Doyle was a chick before he rocked up
I meant later on, when Angel and him prepared to take down Russell. Did he just stay in contact with him? He just seemed to turn up at his door without any explanation.
I guess because I'm just to accustomed to seeing fights in either CGI or animation that real fighting is somewhat lost on me. There have been numerous fights I have enjoyed though as mentioned I do wish that some of them were a little bit longer - recently Buffy versus Faith for example.
It's good to know they're going to be explained though.
This reminds me - did anyone else here really like Buffy Season 1? I know that a few people find it inconsistent and dull but personally I felt it hit the ground running. Of course there were episodes that I didn't enjoy but it had some really good ones too, like Welcome to the Hellmouth and The Pack for instance.
As for your point, I wasn't exactly expecting ultra violence and sex so I don't mind that it isn't included. Besides, is it just me or would lots of violence and sex feel extremely out of place? I know recently there was that episode where Faith and Xander had sex but I think - at least in regards to the aftermath - that was played for laughs more than anything else. Also, in referral to the scene dare I say that I still found it hot even though you didn't see much. Y'know sometimes less is more :kitty:
Don't worry about it. One thing I really like about Buffy is how just about every single episode contains a good twist so, like I said, I doubt all that much was spoiled in the grand scheme of things.
Speaking of which, I just finished watching Episode 2 of Season 4. I thought it was pretty good and an improvement over the first. I'll post up my thoughts later but needless to say Kathy - what was that?
It's just such a gem of a show. It is my fav show of all time. I re-watch it every year. I know everything about it. If i went on mastermind, Buffy would be my specialist topic
Can't remember tbh, I guess they did stay in contact and arranged it.
By the way, did you spot the first mini crossover?
Angel calling Buffy? I was gonna comment on it but it wasn't really substantial enough to warrant any strong opinion to be perfectly honest. Nice to see it was included though.
I heard it might be which is hence why I stopped using it about 2 episodes into Season 3. I might double back and watch Seasons 1-2 when I've finished the rest of the series to see what I've missed. Does anyone know if there are edited on Netflix as well?
Living Conditions
- 'Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer...' Before Giles started doing it this brief bit of narration was done by somebody else. Anyone know what happened to him? I miss both him and his dramatic voice.
- You know at first I thought they were gonna do a joke where Buffy pushes Kathy into the bushes only to discover there was no monster there and that rather she was just imagining things. I don't know, it might have been funny.
- Speaking of which, something tells me that Kathy is 'The One' as opposed to Buffy.
- 'It's nice out here.' 'Yes, sometimes I take my tea out here.'
- Parker reminds me of Zac Effron for some reason. Starting to think he'll be Buffy's new boyfriend.
- When the Scooby Gang were talking about the 'Drive By' Flirting Technique did that remind anyone else of the sort of conversations they would usually have on Curb Your Enthusiasm/Seinfeld?
- What was up with the shot where Kathy spilt ketchup on Buffy's sweater? It was mental XD
- I know Buffy and Kathy are probably going to end up being friends at some point but can I just say that I think it would be really interesting if they did not? As demonstrated by Buffy drinking the milk it would also be funny.
- Oz is so cool about everything. 'On the plus side you killed the bench which was looking shifty.' lol.
- So wait...Kathy's a demon? I'm not so sure I liked that twist although I do appreciate the mechanics behind it - for instance stealing a soul so she could fit in. In a way, it sort of reminds me of Anya last season.
- Wait, is Buffy actually possessed then or just sleep deprived? I'm leaning towards being possessed because why else would she knock out Xander and Oz?
- And no sooner had I typed that then the answer came.
- That resolution was strange but I liked it. Sort of. My favourite part was when Kathy complained, 'Stop treating me like I'm 900.' But like I said it was still very strange. Also, could someone tell me what those dreams were about and how Buffy and Kathy both experienced the exact same ones? I know they gave an explanation in the episode itself but I was distracted by something and it passed me by.
- I thought that episode was pretty good to be fair and I certainly liked it a lot more than Episode 1. Not that much seemed to happen though I did like that they didn't go down the obvious route and have Buffy and Kathy eventually make up.
- Spike's back next episode. Hopefully it'll be worth the wait.
If I remember correctly , it wasn't a dream it was a ritual that she was vaguely aware of while she was half asleep . Kathy was lying , as it was her doing the ritual .
It also feels like 90s in a bottle
I love the errie music tones which we never really heard in the show again
listen to the music in the pilot when buffy and angel are in the crypt then the music in when buffys sneaking out her room through the window
its all so weird and most likely done on the cheap:p which probley added to the errieness of the sound.
The show although not very dark story wise looked very dark and errie in season 1
My sister loved BTVS and Angel and I was super skeptical about watching either of them (I was in a Stargate phase at the time!) but she managed to convince me to watch Once More With Feeling from S6...I hated it!! I was so confused that I really didn't enjoy it.
However she did manage to get me to start from the beginning (I traded her S1 Buffy for S1 Stargate SG-1!) and from then on in I was hooked and couldn't stop watching...I'd go so far as to say I became a bigger fan than her
S4 was not a favourite first time around but with each rewatch it grows on me...I'm currently on This Years Girl
I know what you mean thinking back. It sort of had this unearthly atmosphere that as of Season 4 has yet to be surpassed. I don't even think there are any light episodes are there? Apparently though it's going to get much darker again as it goes along.
And to think one day I'm gonna be like you - feeling envious of all those who get to start watching Buffy afresh
What changed your mind about the show can I ask? Was there a particular episode or moment that did the trick or were you like me and more or less hooked from the off (or rather the first episode of Season 1, as obviously you weren't hooked from the off
By the way, I'm going to go watch the second episode of Angel now and will post my thoughts at some point tomorrow
I laugh just thinking about Kathy. The thing I love about Buffy is when they do comedy scenes or episodes it's genuinely funny even though it isn't a comedy. I loved the fight Buffy has with Kathy in the dorm and the way she has Believe on a loop.
Like, just to clarify, this girl is a freak and something is wrong with her as is at Uni but she worships Celine Dion and Cher.
I feel very fortunate that I watched Buffy as it aired as in those days, spoilers weren't easy to come by and it was shocking when Jenny died.
I like every season in it's own way, I find with season 7 I have to watch that season in one go, where as others I can dip in and out of easily.
Also if you haven't seen Once Upon A Time, you could check it out in future, I think it's got some similar feels to Buffy with Jane Espenson writing a lot of the episodes and her writing style is very noticeable.
As soon as I watched Welcome to the Hellmouth and The Harvest I knew I was going to love it. The witty dialogue and interesting characters and their dynamics were so good it just pulled me in and I never looked back! I am now a fully fledged lover of all things Joss Whedon
And trust me, once you get to OMWF in S6 and if you remember this convo, you'll realise why it made zero sense as a starting off point for watching the show!!
I know what you mean and I liked that bit
I've actually heard lots of good things about that show but it's not my top priority at the moment. I really want to start watching Lost and 24 plus maybe Battlestar Galactica and Breaking Bad so I'll probably start watching at least one of those shows first when I finish my current viewings of Arrested Development and Luther.
Anyway, here's my review of the second episode of Angel. Sorry that it took me so long to get up but I didn't get the chance to watch it last night and I've been too busy for most of the day.
Lonely Hearts
- Based off the title, I'm wondering if Angel tries speed dating in this episode? Perhaps as a way to get over Buffy although maybe it won't be his idea at first? Something tells me though it'll be more disgusting than that. My mind immediately raced to the idea of witches when I then thought about gruesome things involving hearts.
- I'm not really a clubbing person and I'm not even remotely sure why this is important but can someone tell which days are more sociable for clubbing - Fridays or Saturdays? Obviously it'll all depend on where you live but I don't know I always wondered.
- Kevin's evil isn't he?
- On second watch, I see what people mean about the opening being so 90's it hurts XD
- 'Seriously I wasn't hitting on you.' ^_^
- I'm wondering what the significance of the star tattoo on Kevin's arm is. I'm not really sure how it ties into witches. Maybe it's some kind of symbol for his cult or something?
- Could someone help me out? Has Angel 'always' had the curse where if he experiences one true moment of happiness he loses his soul or was that just the one Miss Calendar put on him? Also, the curse was intended to punish him yes? Well then surely when he regresses back to his evil form it will be much more punishing for his unfortunate victims? I'm sure there was a good explanation given at some point and I imagine it was the one that Miss Calender put on him because otherwise why would he have allowed himself to have sex with Buffy? Hmm. I'm sort of confused. It's been a little while now since I saw those episodes.
- Ooh Sharon killed Kevin? Good twist!
- I just knew when Kate told Angel to go to Hell his response would be something like that.
- I'm trying to think of what the common link is between Sharon's victims. My first thoughts were that they all were virgins but then Kevin can't have been a virgin can he? Maybe she just feeds off orgasms in general? There was a monster in Torchwood that once did that.
- Jesus Sharon what the hell was that?!
- To be perfectly honest, I wish they'd have come up with a better name than Angel Investigations. I'm guessing that Cordelia invented that?
- I'm not sure why if the creature is feeling lonely it then continues to go after lonely people? I mean why not go after popular people unless lonely people have sex more often and it still needs that orgasm energy?
- Do you know I thought the bartender would turn out to be the creature. I don't know why but I also thought it was convenient that it's weakness was fire but then again I suppose fire will hurt most things including demons :kitty:
- Ultimately, I thought this episode was average at best. I'm not really sure I understood the creature's motivations and I didn't find the concept behind it all that intriguing. I'm also not really sure that I like Kate as a character but then again I didn't really like Oz and Angel at first and they're now amongst two of my favourites. I also hope Cordelia and Doyle have a more active part to play in the next episode although I really hope they don't get together. It can't just be me who seriously hopes that she gets back with Xander which is ironic really considering that in the beginning of Season 3 I so wanted he and Willow to get together. But yeah, I didn't really this episode much. And according to the links I was given next episode is a crossover yes? I'm guessing that Spike is involved somehow.
Angelus was originally cursed by gypsies in 1898. Jenny was a descendant of the gypsy clan. She was sent to observe Angel to see if he continued to suffer remorse and guilt for Angelus' past sins. She didn't know about the second part of the curse (the true happiness bit). I don't think Angel himself knew either. It's true that when the second part of the curse kicked in, it was the people around him who would suffer, I guess that was the gypsies idea of a sick joke. The idea being that whoever had lead him to true happiness would probably die at the hands of Angelus. The gypsies might have been his victims, but I don't think they were particularly nice people.
I'm pausing the episode every ten or so minutes to write a few lines down and then expanding on them ever so slightly when it comes to the thread. I think it's just easier and less time consuming and allows me to talk about a wide variety of things as opposed to just saying, 'I liked this. I didn't like that. Boy, these pretzels are making me thirsty.'
And thank you by the way for clarifying that
I might be completely wrong on this, but I always assumed that Angel experiencing a moment of true happiness was actually him breaking the curse, rather than it being a part of it.
Think of it like the old curses of fairytales. The person who curses someone doesn't create a "get-out clause." That's just a condition of the spell. In the case of Angelus, he wasn't cursed with a soul so he could find redemption, but so he could suffer for all his evil deeds. The Gypsies wanted him to suffer for all eternity, as punishment. But if he were to ever experience true happiness, the curse has failed. He's no longer in eternal torment for his crimes, as he's managed to get to a state where there is only happiness.
Essentially, Angel beat the curse by failing to be in permanent pain. The curse is lifted not because that's what the gypsies wanted to happen (they wanted him to suffer for eternity) but because he had defeated it. Its purpose had failed and he was about to become a happy, content man. Just like when evil curses are thwarted and they end because they were beaten.
The evil godmother doesn't want sleeping beauty to be kissed by the handsome prince and the curse to be lifted. That's just its failure, because loved conquered the curse. Similarly, love conquered Angel's curse, but it didn't end happily ever after in their case. I don't think the gypsies planned it to end that way, though, any more than the evil godmother did.
That makes sense. It would explain why the gypsies were still keeping an eye on him and why Enyos was unhapp/concerned about Angel seemingly no longer suffering.
The Harsh Light of Day
- I just knew Harmony would turn out to be a Vampire for you see my Vampire sense was tingling. And I think it's fairly obvious that Spike is her boyfriend.
- What's the betting that Spike and Harmony will end up going to that Wolf House party?
- Would anyone else like to see an actual double date between Parker/Buffy and Spike/Harmony? I'm not really sure how it'd tie into an episode mind but who knows? It might be funny.
- I really ought to comment on that scene between Xander and Anya but ah... Well... Um...
- 'Is Antonio Banderas a Vampire?' 'No.' 'Can I make him a Vampire?' 'No.'
- Y'know I don't think I've ever seen two Vampires have sex before. Oh wait. No. I have.
- 'And the amazing thing. Still more romantic than Faith.'
- Buffy's laugh when she denies ever dating Spike was amazing XD
- Buffy and Parker certainly don't waste any time do they. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
- Everyone seems to be having sex in this episode. I don't know what else I was realistically expecting now that the show had moved up to College.
- It was really predictable that this would happen but Anya's not really over him is she?
- It's incredibly awkward to point this out but Harmony seems more like Spike's daughter than she does his lover in certain scenes. Speaking of which, I now want to see how Spike handles a baby or infant.
- 'Listen to me, you stupid bint.'
- There's certainly a lot of song placement going on in this episode. I'm not really sure I like it to be perfectly honest. It's got nothing to do with the music in general but more so the fact that there's too much music compared to other episodes really. I don't know - am I making a big deal out of nothing?
- Oh so they're going down that route with Parker? Gotta admit I didn't see it coming. I do feel bad for Buffy though and I'm sort of glad that I didn't comment on how good their chemistry seemed to be earlier. It would seem kinda misjudged now.
- So, according to Spike, even the squirrels are doing it now?!
- I did like that fight between Buffy and Spike although the resolution to the plot seemed a little easy. Then again I'm not really sure how else they were supposed to resolve it since it essentially amounted to taking a ring off of his finger.
- So it looks like the first crossover will be Oz going to see Angel to give him the ring. To be honest, I would have liked it to involve Spike somehow but then whose to say that won't happen? Also, my first reaction to the whole thing was 'Wow Angel's gonna lose a lot of its tension' but then again that seems stupid especially when I know he's gonna be around for at least another four seasons.
- I'm not really sure I liked the staging of that final scene - it seemed a little convenient they were all in a few feet of each other and I'm not entirely sure they had that much in common. I mean obviously they were all wronged by men but I don't think it's entirely fair to compare Xander to the likes of Spike and Parker especially when he only brushed Anya aside to go and save Buffy. I know that technically he was similar to Parker in the sense they both considered the sex as a one time thing but Xander seemed a lot more uncomfortable about the whole thing. If you can't tell, the reason I've gone into so much detail is because I'm trying not to offend anyone ^_^
- Ultimately, I enjoyed this episode for the most part but there wasn't really anything stand out to attract my attention. I also didn't think the concept was enthralling enough to get me hooked. Even if Spike wasn't originally going to find the ring - like Giles believed - it was sort of obvious he'd try and do something but even then I didn't really care what. I am glad that they brought back Anya and Spike though even if the latter needs to come back more often. I think that perhaps part of Spike's charm however is that he only appears every once in a while although - that being said - I did really like him in Season 2 when he was in quite a lot of the episodes.
I've just started a rewatch of buffy the other day.
I used to watch it when it aired on bbc2 it had the bad language and some stuff edited. So watching the DVDs was strange seeing new bits
Thank you, and I know what you mean about seeing new material in episodes which you've already seen. It was exactly the same when I saw the uncut version of Friends via the Complete Collection DVD. It should be interesting to eventually go back and see them myself. I mean - exempting the recap - I'm pretty sure they cut out Miss Calender's Funeral on the SyFy airing of that particular ep. Hmm. I suppose I'll just have to wait and see.
In the Dark
- Ah, so Spike is in this episode according to the corresponding DVD Menu. Considering that he and Oz have perhaps some of the driest humour in the series so far, I really do hope then that this will be the episode where they properly meet.
- I was seriously expecting Rachel to kill Lenny somehow - namely because that's what the plot of the last episode did. I'm immensely glad that she didn't however - namely because that's what the plot of the last episode did.
- 'No, not the hair. Never the hair.' I can already tell that Spike is going to make this episode for sure.
- So wait...Angel's not going to wear the Ring, at least not for now? I'm guessing then that perhaps he wants to die as a means of redemption? I'm also betting that Spike's going to find it. Somehow. Again.
- It's funny that Spike suggests that Angel should become a Vampire Ballerina because when he was gracefully practising his fighting poses just seconds before that's exactly what he reminded me of
- All this talk of getting invited in to people's homes is making me wonder: how does Angel get invited into restaurants and pubs? Would either Cordelia and Doyle be able to help him out on that front or does the rule just apply to traditional homes?
- The Freaky Church on Sunpoint? Throwaway expression or subtle allusion to a future plot point?
- First thing - something tells me the Doctor will turn on Spike. Second thing - Slutty the Vampire Slayer. Ha! It rhymes!
- Do you know I was wondering where Oz had gotten to. Playing for his band I suppose?
- 'Where's the Ring? Bloody Hell.' Anyone else think that Spike is like the British Gollum?
- Random thought but I'm wondering if Oz's van will turn up more often in Buffy cause after all they're the Scooby Gang are they not? They need their very own Mystery Machine! Plus not to mention they're in need of a dog.
- I really liked that final fight as well as Angel's reasoning for not wearing the Ring. It's gotten me wondering if Angel will eventually come to help out other supernatural creatures in the episodes to come? I really think that would help the series step up a gear.
- Ha! The Indestructible Ring was destroyed by a brick
- To conclude, I think this was a pretty solid episode to be fair. The only real nitpick I want to share is that there seemed to be a conflict of interesting amongst the plotting. I think it would have been much more interesting if they devoted an episode to a Vampire that had a fetish for children because I found that last scene on the pier borderline creepy. I also wish that Oz had been given more to do but then again it's not like he appears every once in a Blue - or rather Full - Moon. I'd also wish they'd devoted more time to the Lenny/Rachel Plot but to be perfectly honest I'm glad they did not. Not only did I completely forget about it towards the end but also it would have felt like a slight retread of Episode One.