Love your commentary, Rob! I'm so impressed with how ShopGirl (thank you, Kate!!) was able to pull it all together into such a great list, and I'm not the least surprised that S5E8 Ever After made it to the top. I've watched that episode at least a dozen times, if not more
However, I will stubbornly hold on to the possibility that Aunt Joan *did* make it to see the baby before her death, either with a visit before M & L left the hospital, or the first night they were back in Portwenn. She would have been so eager to see that baby, and she might possibly have been the only visitor that Martin would have admitted without grumbling. I just don't want to admit that she never met James Henry!
I love that interpretation, earlgrey! Now the only thing is....we have figure out (i.e., make up ) how this could have happened. Martin (and Louisa) think that Joan died on the way to their house to see JH for the first time. Now of course we were not shown what happened between the birth and their arrival back home, so we're free to fill in that gap however we like. Let's see....how about this...they were taken to the hospital, and during their time there, at various times Louisa slept, JH was taken away for exams, weighing, whatever, Martin did paperwork, etc. So it could have happened that Joan did see JH but Martin and Louisa never knew that she had been there (she looked for them, but Louisa was sleeping and Martin was in the cafeteria, where she didn't think to look...). Ok, it's a stretch, but it would make me feel better too to think that she had at least gotten a glimpse of him.
I love that interpretation, earlgrey! Now the only thing is....we have figure out (i.e., make up ) how this could have happened. Martin (and Louisa) think that Joan died on the way to their house to see JH for the first time. Now of course we were not shown what happened between the birth and their arrival back home, so we're free to fill in that gap however we like. Let's see....how about this...they were taken to the hospital, and during their time there, at various times Louisa slept, JH was taken away for exams, weighing, whatever, Martin did paperwork, etc. So it could have happened that Joan did see JH but Martin and Louisa never knew that she had been there (she looked for them, but Louisa was sleeping and Martin was in the cafeteria, where she didn't think to look...). Ok, it's a stretch, but it would make me feel better too to think that she had at least gotten a glimpse of him.
I can't take credit for the idea - I wish I could remember where I first heard it (fanfic, I think?). Actually just want back and watched that scene. I forgot that Joe said she had died the day before (so the same day JH was born). That rules out a visit the next morning, but it still leaves the possibility that Joan was on her way home from visiting the new family in the hospital. Unless I'm missing something and they definitively say that Joan never saw/met the baby? If that's the case, then I love the idea that Joan snuck in a peek at the hospital, unbeknownst to Martin & Louisa. Just seems too cruel to consider that she never even had a glimpse of her great-nephew, and the closest she'd ever come to having a grandbaby of her own
I can't take credit for the idea - I wish I could remember where I first heard it (fanfic, I think?). Actually just want back and watched that scene. I forgot that Joe said she had died the day before (so the same day JH was born). That rules out a visit the next morning, but it still leaves the possibility that Joan was on her way home from visiting the new family in the hospital. Unless I'm missing something and they definitively say that Joan never saw/met the baby? If that's the case, then I love the idea that Joan snuck in a peek at the hospital, unbeknownst to Martin & Louisa. Just seems too cruel to consider that she never even had a glimpse of her great-nephew, and the closest she'd ever come to having a grandbaby of her own
Well, her soul visited without a doubt. That's a new one for fanfic writers....
I can't take credit for the idea - I wish I could remember where I first heard it (fanfic, I think?). Actually just want back and watched that scene. I forgot that Joe said she had died the day before (so the same day JH was born). That rules out a visit the next morning, but it still leaves the possibility that Joan was on her way home from visiting the new family in the hospital. Unless I'm missing something and they definitively say that Joan never saw/met the baby? If that's the case, then I love the idea that Joan snuck in a peek at the hospital, unbeknownst to Martin & Louisa. Just seems too cruel to consider that she never even had a glimpse of her great-nephew, and the closest she'd ever come to having a grandbaby of her own
Sorry folks -We do know that Joan went to the hospital to try to see the baby. in the opening scene of S5, there's a caravan of cars going off to the hospital, honking horns, etc. Joan's blue truck is clearly among them. And in the gaggle of people asking at the front desk for Louisa, a woman of about Joan's height, hair color and general build is seen to be with them. As we know, Martin evaded them by wheeling Louisa and baby away.
Possibly she died on the way home from the hospital, because she wasn't in the merry crowd that clamored at the door as they were finishing with the crib, and also, we know she didn't get a chance to give the baby the little blue outfit she had bought for him (when?). So I think it has to be that she saw the baby in spirit, as Mofromco suggests.
Sorry folks -We do know that Joan went to the hospital to try to see the baby. in the opening scene of S5, there's a caravan of cars going off to the hospital, honking horns, etc. Joan's blue truck is clearly among them. And in the gaggle of people asking at the front desk for Louisa, a woman of about Joan's height, hair color and general build is seen to be with them. As we know, Martin evaded them by wheeling Louisa and baby away.
Possibly she died on the way home from the hospital, because she wasn't in the merry crowd that clamored at the door as they were finishing with the crib, and also, we know she didn't get a chance to give the baby the little blue outfit she had bought for him (when?). So I think it has to be that she saw the baby in spirit, as Mofromco suggests.
Oh, I completely forgot about those circumstances Good question as to when she would have bought the blue outfit. They clearly didn't know the baby's sex beforehand, so it couldn't have been in advance, unless she bought both a pink and a blue one, and planned to return one. Can you remind me how we know she didn't get a chance to give them the outfit? I feel compelled create a story around it, even if wildly implausible - I just can't bring myself to give up on her having seen JH, even if no one knew about it ?
Sorry folks -We do know that Joan went to the hospital to try to see the baby. in the opening scene of S5, there's a caravan of cars going off to the hospital, honking horns, etc. Joan's blue truck is clearly among them. And in the gaggle of people asking at the front desk for Louisa, a woman of about Joan's height, hair color and general build is seen to be with them. As we know, Martin evaded them by wheeling Louisa and baby away.
Possibly she died on the way home from the hospital, because she wasn't in the merry crowd that clamored at the door as they were finishing with the crib, and also, we know she didn't get a chance to give the baby the little blue outfit she had bought for him (when?). So I think it has to be that she saw the baby in spirit, as Mofromco suggests.
Knowing BP, that woman in the crowd was probably a decoy to disguise the fact that Auntie Joan was not there. There would have been no reason that she would not have gone up to the nurses desk and proceeded directly into the room where Martin, Louisa and baby would have been....and frankly I thought Louisa was quite the dedicated new mother to not want a night in hospital after that whole ordeal...I know I appreciated it. Perhaps I'm just a wuss.
Oh, I completely forgot about those circumstances Good question as to when she would have bought the blue outfit. They clearly didn't know the baby's sex beforehand, so it couldn't have been in advance, unless she bought both a pink and a blue one, and planned to return one. Can you remind me how we know she didn't get a chance to give them the outfit? I feel compelled create a story around it, even if wildly implausible - I just can't bring myself to give up on her having seen JH, even if no one knew about it ?
I guess the question is how did the outfit get back to her house and into her bedroom? Hmmm......we must be really bored.......
Oh, I completely forgot about those circumstances Good question as to when she would have bought the blue outfit. They clearly didn't know the baby's sex beforehand, so it couldn't have been in advance, unless she bought both a pink and a blue one, and planned to return one. Can you remind me how we know she didn't get a chance to give them the outfit? I feel compelled create a story around it, even if wildly implausible - I just can't bring myself to give up on her having seen JH, even if no one knew about it ?
Louisa fell asleep the next morning and DM took the baby from her and went out to Joan's presumably to pick up the dog and just see everything was alright there. He went into her bedroom and found the little blue outfit.
I just think we have to put the question of when she would have had time to buy the outfit, return home and put it on her bed, then get into her truck and drive into Truro, down to poetic license. Or inconsistency.
Louisa fell asleep the next morning and DM took the baby from her and went out to Joan's presumably to pick up the dog and just see everything was alright there. He went into her bedroom and found the little blue outfit.
I just think we have to put the question of when she would have had time to buy the outfit, return home and put it on her bed, then get into her truck and drive into Truro, down to poetic license. Or inconsistency.
Some people can tell by the shape of your stomach if you are carrying a boy or girl - Auntie Joan was one of them, hence the blue outfit! Someone I know was correct with me on my third child, a daughter.
Poetic license? - haven't we been dealing with Portwenn time all along? When Louisa had the baby in the pub she presented a normal, newborn size baby. An hour later in S5E1, in Louisa's hospital room, DM was holding what appeared to be a three or four month old baby. We don't question things like this!
Wondering how much time will lapse at the beginning of S7 for couple's counseling. Will there be a few episodes where they are apart? Will they be together at the beginning and then apart for a few episodes? Will S7 start, timewise, from the end of S6? The cast ages, just like we all do. The age of James Henry will tell everyone the Portwenn time!
Another thing I noticed was the Spanish version of DM was short-lived. The story line moved too fast, the German version is gone as far as I can tell. Martin Clunes makes all the difference and the superb writing makes for longevity.
Some people can tell by the shape of your stomach if you are carrying a boy or girl - Auntie Joan was one of them, hence the blue outfit! Someone I know was correct with me on my third child, a daughter.
Poetic license? - haven't we been dealing with Portwenn time all along? When Louisa had the baby in the pub she presented a normal, newborn size baby. An hour later in S5E1, in Louisa's hospital room, DM was holding what appeared to be a three or four month old baby. We don't question things like this!
Wondering how much time will lapse at the beginning of S7 for couple's counseling. Will there be a few episodes where they are apart? Will they be together at the beginning and then apart for a few episodes? Will S7 start, timewise, from the end of S6? The cast ages, just like we all do. The age of James Henry will tell everyone the Portwenn time!
Another thing I noticed was the Spanish version of DM was short-lived. The story line moved too fast, the German version is gone as far as I can tell. Martin Clunes makes all the difference and the superb writing makes for longevity.
The lovely magic of Portwenn time notwithstanding, I still think it's possible that Joan heard the birth over the phone, rushed up to the hospital right away (maybe arriving only shortly after the new family), snuck a quick visit in with the baby, and returned to Portwenn in time to join the entourage back to the hospital.
She already had the blue outfit picked out because she either a) correctly guessed the baby's gender (as suggested by Marchrand), or b) she picked it up on her way back from the hospital the first time.
Okay, okay, I know it's a stretch And likely the writers wanted to create some drama by making us think that Joan never did get the chance to meet James Henry, I get that. Certainly they had to do some "tweaking" to work around the fact that Stephanie Cole had left the show. Still, I will gladly stretch plausibility to believe that dear Aunty Joan did meet her one and only great-nephew
As for the beginning of S7, we will be able to guess some of the timeline details from photos once they start filming, no? It should be pretty clear by the age of the baby they cast as to how much time will have lapsed. I've never followed spoilers for a show currently filming before, so I'm a mix of curiosity and excitement waiting for filming to start this spring!
mklass, series 7 will be filmed starting in late March through the last part of July. No air date has been announced, although on past form it will probably air in England starting in September. ACORN TV had the rights to stream in the U.S., S6 episodes starting a month after they aired in England; hopefully that will happen again this time, so we don't have to wait until sometime in 2016!
Thanks for the info NewPark, I will keep a look out for new series!, I am in England so I wont have to wait for it to be streamed!............. ;-)
I'm posting some random thoughts even though I'm very late to the "party" and I know much of this has been discussed and rehashed, etc.
I was too hard on Louisa in my last reply and feeling pangs of guilt. ;-)
Random thoughts: The conversation (S4 2) outside the kitchen when a shocked Martin follows her - I was struck by a couple of things. He mentions abortion. He asks twice is the baby his (ours)? After Louisa explains what happened in London, he replies: "and, now you're here. He said it with a look (and feel) of dread. Its clear in her reaction/response at that very second, she anticipated some other kind of reaction from him. She then replies: Don't worry, Martin, everything will be alright, this is not your problem.
My point: His reaction in the above scene changes the whole tenor of their relationship going forward and what was to ensue in Louisa's eyes. Remember, she also sees and take notes of the new woman in his life. (glaring from the window)
I make this point because I often read of how "hurt" Martin was when she went with AJ to her doctor visit instead of asking him. I didn't feel he deserved any sympathy at that point. Actually, I didn't feel much sympathy for him in the entire season 4.
I may just be talkin' to myself but I'll continue with a few more random thoughts!
In Season 4-8, when Doc visits her school, he gives her the spreadsheets, etc. He mention "post-dated checks". Boom. That was the kicker. She knew he had no plans to return for the birth or thereafter. At this point, she is still only looking for him to show interest in the child. And, might I add...he was gruff with her, bullying with her and (alarmingly) cross with her through much of season 4. Ick.
I know, I know...he was feeling rejected, confused, conflicted. Eh. Still feeling no sympathy for the guy.
Btw: Caroline Catz rocked Season 4. She had great material and she delivered. Stunning work. Imo, her best season and she looked fabulous.
Season 5 and 6. Ugh. I was not prepared for what was to come. What in the **** happened and what have you done with Martin and Louisa. I just kept hearing this huge "sucking" noise and watching the "life" being...
Final thought: An actor friend of mine talks about screen/couple chemistry. He alludes to three things or components that are needed: conflict, ambiguity, and sexual tension. Not all three are present, but when they are, well then you have intoxicating.
My word - not his.
Uh, plenty of the above in S 1-3. Season 5 and 6?
Conflict (check)
Ambiguity (check)
Sexual tension (um, uh, okay, so that was the sucking noise I kept hearing)
Season 5 and 6 felt like watching a slow death. I won't buy the DVD's. My plan was to buy all of them. Scratched that off the list a long time ago. My apologies if my random thoughts offended anyone here.
I may just be talkin' to myself but I'll continue with a few more random thoughts!
In Season 4-8, when Doc visits her school, he gives her the spreadsheets, etc. He mention "post-dated checks". Boom. That was the kicker. She knew he had no plans to return for the birth or thereafter. At this point, she is still only looking for him to show interest in the child. And, might I add...he was gruff with her, bullying with her and (alarmingly) cross with her through much of season 4. Ick.
I know, I know...he was feeling rejected, confused, conflicted. Eh. Still feeling no sympathy for the guy.
Btw: Caroline Catz rocked Season 4. She had great material and she delivered. Stunning work. Imo, her best season and she looked fabulous.
Season 5 and 6. Ugh. I was not prepared for what was to come. What in the **** happened and what have you done with Martin and Louisa. I just kept hearing this huge "sucking" noise and watching the "life" being...
Final thought: An actor friend of mine talks about screen/couple chemistry. He alludes to three things or components that are needed: conflict, ambiguity, and sexual tension. Not all three are present, but when they are, well then you have intoxicating.
My word - not his.
Uh, plenty of the above in S 1-3. Season 5 and 6?
Conflict (check)
Ambiguity (check)
Sexual tension (um, uh, okay, so that was the sucking noise I kept hearing)
Season 5 and 6 felt like watching a slow death. I won't buy the DVD's. My plan was to buy all of them. Scratched that off the list a long time ago. My apologies if my random thoughts offended anyone here.
Offend anyone? Hardly.
Oh, hilarious, Ms_Sarah. I was over the moon with this show - then they got married. And that was all she wrote. Martin was an obnoxious prat and Louisa was an enabling dolt, and that was it for me. The honeymoon scenes were especially insulting to my intelligence. Haven't been back since.
Why hilarious? I BOUGHT the latest set of DVDs, the ones where they were married. THEN I saw the shows on a PBS station ahead of watching them on DVD, and .............. threw them out. I couldn't give them away, I couldn't return them, so yes, I ............ threw them out.
Yes, I hated the latest episodes that much. No, I won't be returning for the new series. Incredible, since the show used to be SO good.
How do they DO stuff like that? Bollocks up a show that much, I mean?
I may just be talkin' to myself but I'll continue with a few more random thoughts!
In Season 4-8, when Doc visits her school, he gives her the spreadsheets, etc. He mention "post-dated checks". Boom. That was the kicker. She knew he had no plans to return for the birth or thereafter. At this point, she is still only looking for him to show interest in the child. And, might I add...he was gruff with her, bullying with her and (alarmingly) cross with her through much of season 4. Ick.
I know, I know...he was feeling rejected, confused, conflicted. Eh. Still feeling no sympathy for the guy.
Btw: Caroline Catz rocked Season 4. She had great material and she delivered. Stunning work. Imo, her best season and she looked fabulous.
Season 5 and 6. Ugh. I was not prepared for what was to come. What in the **** happened and what have you done with Martin and Louisa. I just kept hearing this huge "sucking" noise and watching the "life" being...
Final thought: An actor friend of mine talks about screen/couple chemistry. He alludes to three things or components that are needed: conflict, ambiguity, and sexual tension. Not all three are present, but when they are, well then you have intoxicating.
My word - not his.
Uh, plenty of the above in S 1-3. Season 5 and 6?
Conflict (check)
Ambiguity (check)
Sexual tension (um, uh, okay, so that was the sucking noise I kept hearing)
Season 5 and 6 felt like watching a slow death. I won't buy the DVD's. My plan was to buy all of them. Scratched that off the list a long time ago. My apologies if my random thoughts offended anyone here.
I agree with your thoughts on S4. I suppose one could argue that Martin was (usually, but not always) being a jerk b/c he was hurt and offended at being, so he thought, left out of the pregnancy. But I have always thought that he was disconcerted about the pregnancy, not entirely on board with being a father, and conveniently rationalizing his reluctance to become involved by clinging to the idea that she didn't want him around. A moment's rational discussion would have cleared that up. But also, we do have to keep in mind that in Martin Clunes' conception of the character, he is something of a jerk -- "vile" in MC's words, and I don't think he was entirely joking.
Oh, hilarious, Ms_Sarah. I was over the moon with this show - then they got married. And that was all she wrote. Martin was an obnoxious prat and Louisa was an enabling dolt, and that was it for me. The honeymoon scenes were especially insulting to my intelligence. Haven't been back since.
Why hilarious? I BOUGHT the latest set of DVDs, the ones where they were married. THEN I saw the shows on a PBS station ahead of watching them on DVD, and .............. threw them out. I couldn't give them away, I couldn't return them, so yes, I ............ threw them out.
Yes, I hated the latest episodes that much. No, I won't be returning for the new series. Incredible, since the show used to be SO good.
How do they DO stuff like that? Bollocks up a show that much, I mean?
There is a lot of discontent/unhappiness with S5-S6, which is think is largely justified. Maybe that's why DS has had so little traffic -- people have just lost interest.
Personally, I think we'll look back on the honeymoon episode, starting with that walk in the woods, as the moment when the show definitively "jumped the shark."
I will watch S6, for the same reason that I almost always compulsively finish a book I'm reading, but I'm not looking forward to it. In fact, I'm almost dreading the beginning of filming when we'll getting a glimpse of just exactly how they're going to pull our chains this time. I don't find much funny or charming about watching two miserable people trying to put their relationship back together, and I'll be very surprised if they can return to the "sparkle" of S1-3, even 4, under those circumstances.
As for the why they did it -- I just think that ITV offered them a boatload of money, and, correctly surmising, I think, that they couldn't build a show without a story arc -- they had to go back to the well of the "will they - won't they" and take us through the "won't they" one more time. I think that was a mistake.
I'm posting some random thoughts even though I'm very late to the "party" and I know much of this has been discussed and rehashed, etc.
I was too hard on Louisa in my last reply and feeling pangs of guilt. ;-)
Random thoughts: The conversation (S4 2) outside the kitchen when a shocked Martin follows her - I was struck by a couple of things. He mentions abortion. He asks twice is the baby his (ours)? After Louisa explains what happened in London, he replies: "and, now you're here. He said it with a look (and feel) of dread. Its clear in her reaction/response at that very second, she anticipated some other kind of reaction from him. She then replies: Don't worry, Martin, everything will be alright, this is not your problem.
My point: His reaction in the above scene changes the whole tenor of their relationship going forward and what was to ensue in Louisa's eyes. Remember, she also sees and take notes of the new woman in his life. (glaring from the window)
I make this point because I often read of how "hurt" Martin was when she went with AJ to her doctor visit instead of asking him. I didn't feel he deserved any sympathy at that point. Actually, I didn't feel much sympathy for him in the entire season 4.
Ms. Sarah, there should be no pangs of guilt regarding being tough on Louisa. She is responsible for more than half the dysfunction in the Martin & Louisa relationship. She thinks she is a great listener.....she almost NEVER really listens. She thinks she is "normal", but for all of Martin's foibles, she has a hair trigger anger reaction and continually berates him or leaves him. The writers have made this part of the story. It's not good or bad...it's just part of the story.
Realistically, to show up at his house, absolutely cold, out of the blue, with the announcement that she was pregnant was a set up for a horrific interaction. Martin has not seen her for 6 months. I thought his reaction was within normal limits. He asked if she wanted to get married. The fact that Edith was there prevented a mature, thoughtful conversation but the way Louisa "broke the news" was a recipe for disaster.
As for not watching the program ot throwing away DVDs......I do hate to say this...It's only a television program..really. And as such the story does not belong to the fans. As someone who dabbles in writing myself, when I write a story, it's MY story. I don't view myself as having to cater to my readers or having them necessarily delighted in everything I write. It's MY story and I decide what direction it goes. I don't care if it aggravates the reader. They can react any way they want but the fury that the last 2 series has generated appears to have shown some fans unwillingness to just follow the story....they don't love THE story....the just love it as long as it conforms to THEIR idea of the story.
DM has taken a darker, more psychologically complex and mature direction. So be it. I find it fascinating and incredibly sophisticated...what does the stuffed frog mean? What about breaking glass? What about the message of time and clocks? I adore the program in all its permutations. They all have their place. I exciting anticipating where BP and Co. Will take it next. After all, it's their decision to make. Sorry if I offend anyone.
I'm posting some random thoughts even though I'm very late to the "party" and I know much of this has been discussed and rehashed, etc.
I was too hard on Louisa in my last reply and feeling pangs of guilt. ;-)
Random thoughts: The conversation (S4 2) outside the kitchen when a shocked Martin follows her - I was struck by a couple of things. He mentions abortion. He asks twice is the baby his (ours)? After Louisa explains what happened in London, he replies: "and, now you're here. He said it with a look (and feel) of dread. Its clear in her reaction/response at that very second, she anticipated some other kind of reaction from him. She then replies: Don't worry, Martin, everything will be alright, this is not your problem.
My point: His reaction in the above scene changes the whole tenor of their relationship going forward and what was to ensue in Louisa's eyes. Remember, she also sees and take notes of the new woman in his life. (glaring from the window)
I make this point because I often read of how "hurt" Martin was when she went with AJ to her doctor visit instead of asking him. I didn't feel he deserved any sympathy at that point. Actually, I didn't feel much sympathy for him in the entire season 4.
Hello, Ms. Sarah,
As folks who know me on this forum know, I feel LG is a very maladjusted woman who has caused repetitive problems in her relationship with DM. She has many good aspects to her, indeed, as a woman. She is a good teacher, a good Head Mistress, a good friend. She cares about her students. She is resilient. She does not give up easily. She can see the good in people. She is very vulnerable.
But, she is very problematic, too!
She completely lacks a sense of humor. She is over-sensitive. She believes her partner should be just the way she feels he should be, instead of meeting him as he is. She throws tantrums. She cannot discuss things like adults should. She makes assumptions about him which can be terribly inaccurate. She runs away from issues instead of facing them. She is poorly organized.
I think S6 was a very bad season so I'm not sure we can fully analyze any character in it they way they were presented. However, it is interesting to see what people are trying to make of it. The best parts of S6 was the first episode (wonderful!), DM and Aunt Ruth growing closer, DM standing up to his mom, and for me, really, not much else.
Tell them their writing is piss poor...it's not. Tell them that their story doesn't hold together and doesn't make sense...it does. Tell them that you hate where the story is going....it's their story and they bloody well don't care. Doc Martin is such a hot property for ITV right now that they can afford to take the story anywhere they want, and you watch it, as millions do...or you don't. Tell them the acting is crap and the production values substandard......they are not. Otherwise just strap in and ride with the adventure. If you can't, just drop out and watch the X-factor...and do it quietly.
Oh, hilarious, Ms_Sarah. I was over the moon with this show - then they got married. And that was all she wrote. Martin was an obnoxious prat and Louisa was an enabling dolt, and that was it for me. The honeymoon scenes were especially insulting to my intelligence. Haven't been back since.
Why hilarious? I BOUGHT the latest set of DVDs, the ones where they were married. THEN I saw the shows on a PBS station ahead of watching them on DVD, and .............. threw them out. I couldn't give them away, I couldn't return them, so yes, I ............ threw them out.
Yes, I hated the latest episodes that much. No, I won't be returning for the new series. Incredible, since the show used to be SO good.
How do they DO stuff like that? Bollocks up a show that much, I mean?[/QUOTE
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
LOL, they had an incredible show and parts of it are still worth tuning in for. I willwatch - they haven't lost me completely. Initially, I was turned-off watching the honeymoon in the woods but after rewatching, I laughed at the stupidity of it. That episode, at least, showed me that the couple do have something - I like the unspoken language they have and that they can work together. There is a shred of hope...I think. (I wouldn't have thrown out the DVD's )
I know the show has many fans - as it should. I am one! I was disappointed in S5 and 6 because of the road it took. I did not mind the drama (and the humor) nor the darkness of S 6. I just didn't like the nasty bickering, the pettiness between the couple. That *humor* just didn't work for me. The show is capable of intelligent writing and I think it fell short.
The show was that good (S1-4) and I wanted it to continue. I'll still watch and comment - if that's okay with you?!? Thanks for your reply.
I know the show has many fans - as it should. I am one! I was disappointed in S5 and 6 because of the road it took. I did not mind the drama (and the humor) nor the darkness of S 6. I just didn't like the nasty bickering, the pettiness between the couple. That *humor* just didn't work for me. The show is capable of intelligent writing and I think it fell short.
The show was that good (S1-4) and I wanted it to continue. I'll still watch and comment - if that's okay with you?!? Thanks for your reply.
As folks who know me on this forum know, I feel LG is a very maladjusted woman who has caused repetitive problems in her relationship with DM. She has many good aspects to her, indeed, as a woman. She is a good teacher, a good Head Mistress, a good friend. She cares about her students. She is resilient. She does not give up easily. She can see the good in people. She is very vulnerable.
But, she is very problematic, too!
She completely lacks a sense of humor. She is over-sensitive. She believes her partner should be just the way she feels he should be, instead of meeting him as he is. She throws tantrums. She cannot discuss things like adults should. She makes assumptions about him which can be terribly inaccurate. She runs away from issues instead of facing them. She is poorly organized.
I think S6 was a very bad season so I'm not sure we can fully analyze any character in it they way they were presented. However, it is interesting to see what people are trying to make of it. The best parts of S6 was the first episode (wonderful!), DM and Aunt Ruth growing closer, DM standing up to his mom, and for me, really, not much else.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Yes, Louisa has issues and strengths. Agree
This is my second attempt to post - server was down. Season 5: what was I watching? A reunited couple? Friends with benefits? Co-parenting with no benefits?
The humor fell short. The bickering, silly. The writing fell short, imo.
S 6 - the later episodes went dark and they pulled me in. The demons and ghosts of the past need to be explored. Let's get real. If they're going to pull apart a (newly married couple), then do it. And, they did.
S7 ? They should go for it. Pain, sorrow, and where they go from there ?? Let's hope the writing kicks in and blows us away !
Comments
I love that interpretation, earlgrey! Now the only thing is....we have figure out (i.e., make up
I can't take credit for the idea - I wish I could remember where I first heard it (fanfic, I think?). Actually just want back and watched that scene. I forgot that Joe said she had died the day before (so the same day JH was born). That rules out a visit the next morning, but it still leaves the possibility that Joan was on her way home from visiting the new family in the hospital. Unless I'm missing something and they definitively say that Joan never saw/met the baby? If that's the case, then I love the idea that Joan snuck in a peek at the hospital, unbeknownst to Martin & Louisa. Just seems too cruel to consider that she never even had a glimpse of her great-nephew, and the closest she'd ever come to having a grandbaby of her own
Well, her soul visited without a doubt. That's a new one for fanfic writers....
Sorry folks -We do know that Joan went to the hospital to try to see the baby. in the opening scene of S5, there's a caravan of cars going off to the hospital, honking horns, etc. Joan's blue truck is clearly among them. And in the gaggle of people asking at the front desk for Louisa, a woman of about Joan's height, hair color and general build is seen to be with them. As we know, Martin evaded them by wheeling Louisa and baby away.
Possibly she died on the way home from the hospital, because she wasn't in the merry crowd that clamored at the door as they were finishing with the crib, and also, we know she didn't get a chance to give the baby the little blue outfit she had bought for him (when?). So I think it has to be that she saw the baby in spirit, as Mofromco suggests.
Oh, I completely forgot about those circumstances
Knowing BP, that woman in the crowd was probably a decoy to disguise the fact that Auntie Joan was not there. There would have been no reason that she would not have gone up to the nurses desk and proceeded directly into the room where Martin, Louisa and baby would have been....and frankly I thought Louisa was quite the dedicated new mother to not want a night in hospital after that whole ordeal...I know I appreciated it. Perhaps I'm just a wuss.
I guess the question is how did the outfit get back to her house and into her bedroom? Hmmm......we must be really bored.......
We're information-deprived! In the absence of tidbits about filming that we can let our imaginations run wild with, we have to create our own....:D
Louisa fell asleep the next morning and DM took the baby from her and went out to Joan's presumably to pick up the dog and just see everything was alright there. He went into her bedroom and found the little blue outfit.
I just think we have to put the question of when she would have had time to buy the outfit, return home and put it on her bed, then get into her truck and drive into Truro, down to poetic license. Or inconsistency.
Some people can tell by the shape of your stomach if you are carrying a boy or girl - Auntie Joan was one of them, hence the blue outfit! Someone I know was correct with me on my third child, a daughter.
Poetic license? - haven't we been dealing with Portwenn time all along? When Louisa had the baby in the pub she presented a normal, newborn size baby. An hour later in S5E1, in Louisa's hospital room, DM was holding what appeared to be a three or four month old baby. We don't question things like this!
Wondering how much time will lapse at the beginning of S7 for couple's counseling. Will there be a few episodes where they are apart? Will they be together at the beginning and then apart for a few episodes? Will S7 start, timewise, from the end of S6? The cast ages, just like we all do. The age of James Henry will tell everyone the Portwenn time!
Another thing I noticed was the Spanish version of DM was short-lived. The story line moved too fast, the German version is gone as far as I can tell. Martin Clunes makes all the difference and the superb writing makes for longevity.
The lovely magic of Portwenn time notwithstanding, I still think it's possible that Joan heard the birth over the phone, rushed up to the hospital right away (maybe arriving only shortly after the new family), snuck a quick visit in with the baby, and returned to Portwenn in time to join the entourage back to the hospital.
She already had the blue outfit picked out because she either a) correctly guessed the baby's gender (as suggested by Marchrand), or b) she picked it up on her way back from the hospital the first time.
Okay, okay, I know it's a stretch
As for the beginning of S7, we will be able to guess some of the timeline details from photos once they start filming, no? It should be pretty clear by the age of the baby they cast as to how much time will have lapsed. I've never followed spoilers for a show currently filming before, so I'm a mix of curiosity and excitement waiting for filming to start this spring!
Thanks for the info NewPark, I will keep a look out for new series!, I am in England so I wont have to wait for it to be streamed!............. ;-)
I was too hard on Louisa in my last reply and feeling pangs of guilt. ;-)
Random thoughts: The conversation (S4 2) outside the kitchen when a shocked Martin follows her - I was struck by a couple of things. He mentions abortion. He asks twice is the baby his (ours)? After Louisa explains what happened in London, he replies: "and, now you're here. He said it with a look (and feel) of dread. Its clear in her reaction/response at that very second, she anticipated some other kind of reaction from him. She then replies: Don't worry, Martin, everything will be alright, this is not your problem.
My point: His reaction in the above scene changes the whole tenor of their relationship going forward and what was to ensue in Louisa's eyes. Remember, she also sees and take notes of the new woman in his life. (glaring from the window)
I make this point because I often read of how "hurt" Martin was when she went with AJ to her doctor visit instead of asking him. I didn't feel he deserved any sympathy at that point. Actually, I didn't feel much sympathy for him in the entire season 4.
In Season 4-8, when Doc visits her school, he gives her the spreadsheets, etc. He mention "post-dated checks". Boom. That was the kicker. She knew he had no plans to return for the birth or thereafter. At this point, she is still only looking for him to show interest in the child. And, might I add...he was gruff with her, bullying with her and (alarmingly) cross with her through much of season 4. Ick.
I know, I know...he was feeling rejected, confused, conflicted. Eh. Still feeling no sympathy for the guy.
Btw: Caroline Catz rocked Season 4. She had great material and she delivered. Stunning work. Imo, her best season and she looked fabulous.
Season 5 and 6. Ugh. I was not prepared for what was to come. What in the **** happened and what have you done with Martin and Louisa. I just kept hearing this huge "sucking" noise and watching the "life" being...
Final thought: An actor friend of mine talks about screen/couple chemistry. He alludes to three things or components that are needed: conflict, ambiguity, and sexual tension. Not all three are present, but when they are, well then you have intoxicating.
My word - not his.
Uh, plenty of the above in S 1-3. Season 5 and 6?
Conflict (check)
Ambiguity (check)
Sexual tension (um, uh, okay, so that was the sucking noise I kept hearing)
Season 5 and 6 felt like watching a slow death. I won't buy the DVD's. My plan was to buy all of them. Scratched that off the list a long time ago. My apologies if my random thoughts offended anyone here.
Offend anyone? Hardly.
Oh, hilarious, Ms_Sarah. I was over the moon with this show - then they got married. And that was all she wrote. Martin was an obnoxious prat and Louisa was an enabling dolt, and that was it for me. The honeymoon scenes were especially insulting to my intelligence. Haven't been back since.
Why hilarious? I BOUGHT the latest set of DVDs, the ones where they were married. THEN I saw the shows on a PBS station ahead of watching them on DVD, and .............. threw them out. I couldn't give them away, I couldn't return them, so yes, I ............ threw them out.
Yes, I hated the latest episodes that much. No, I won't be returning for the new series. Incredible, since the show used to be SO good.
How do they DO stuff like that? Bollocks up a show that much, I mean?
I agree with your thoughts on S4. I suppose one could argue that Martin was (usually, but not always) being a jerk b/c he was hurt and offended at being, so he thought, left out of the pregnancy. But I have always thought that he was disconcerted about the pregnancy, not entirely on board with being a father, and conveniently rationalizing his reluctance to become involved by clinging to the idea that she didn't want him around. A moment's rational discussion would have cleared that up. But also, we do have to keep in mind that in Martin Clunes' conception of the character, he is something of a jerk -- "vile" in MC's words, and I don't think he was entirely joking.
There is a lot of discontent/unhappiness with S5-S6, which is think is largely justified. Maybe that's why DS has had so little traffic -- people have just lost interest.
Personally, I think we'll look back on the honeymoon episode, starting with that walk in the woods, as the moment when the show definitively "jumped the shark."
I will watch S6, for the same reason that I almost always compulsively finish a book I'm reading, but I'm not looking forward to it. In fact, I'm almost dreading the beginning of filming when we'll getting a glimpse of just exactly how they're going to pull our chains this time. I don't find much funny or charming about watching two miserable people trying to put their relationship back together, and I'll be very surprised if they can return to the "sparkle" of S1-3, even 4, under those circumstances.
As for the why they did it -- I just think that ITV offered them a boatload of money, and, correctly surmising, I think, that they couldn't build a show without a story arc -- they had to go back to the well of the "will they - won't they" and take us through the "won't they" one more time. I think that was a mistake.
Ms. Sarah, there should be no pangs of guilt regarding being tough on Louisa. She is responsible for more than half the dysfunction in the Martin & Louisa relationship. She thinks she is a great listener.....she almost NEVER really listens. She thinks she is "normal", but for all of Martin's foibles, she has a hair trigger anger reaction and continually berates him or leaves him. The writers have made this part of the story. It's not good or bad...it's just part of the story.
Realistically, to show up at his house, absolutely cold, out of the blue, with the announcement that she was pregnant was a set up for a horrific interaction. Martin has not seen her for 6 months. I thought his reaction was within normal limits. He asked if she wanted to get married. The fact that Edith was there prevented a mature, thoughtful conversation but the way Louisa "broke the news" was a recipe for disaster.
As for not watching the program ot throwing away DVDs......I do hate to say this...It's only a television program..really. And as such the story does not belong to the fans. As someone who dabbles in writing myself, when I write a story, it's MY story. I don't view myself as having to cater to my readers or having them necessarily delighted in everything I write. It's MY story and I decide what direction it goes. I don't care if it aggravates the reader. They can react any way they want but the fury that the last 2 series has generated appears to have shown some fans unwillingness to just follow the story....they don't love THE story....the just love it as long as it conforms to THEIR idea of the story.
DM has taken a darker, more psychologically complex and mature direction. So be it. I find it fascinating and incredibly sophisticated...what does the stuffed frog mean? What about breaking glass? What about the message of time and clocks? I adore the program in all its permutations. They all have their place. I exciting anticipating where BP and Co. Will take it next. After all, it's their decision to make. Sorry if I offend anyone.
Hello, Ms. Sarah,
As folks who know me on this forum know, I feel LG is a very maladjusted woman who has caused repetitive problems in her relationship with DM. She has many good aspects to her, indeed, as a woman. She is a good teacher, a good Head Mistress, a good friend. She cares about her students. She is resilient. She does not give up easily. She can see the good in people. She is very vulnerable.
But, she is very problematic, too!
She completely lacks a sense of humor. She is over-sensitive. She believes her partner should be just the way she feels he should be, instead of meeting him as he is. She throws tantrums. She cannot discuss things like adults should. She makes assumptions about him which can be terribly inaccurate. She runs away from issues instead of facing them. She is poorly organized.
I think S6 was a very bad season so I'm not sure we can fully analyze any character in it they way they were presented. However, it is interesting to see what people are trying to make of it. The best parts of S6 was the first episode (wonderful!), DM and Aunt Ruth growing closer, DM standing up to his mom, and for me, really, not much else.
The show was that good (S1-4) and I wanted it to continue. I'll still watch and comment - if that's okay with you?!? Thanks for your reply.
Forgive me I got carried away. Sorry
Yes, Louisa has issues and strengths. Agree
This is my second attempt to post - server was down. Season 5: what was I watching? A reunited couple? Friends with benefits? Co-parenting with no benefits?
The humor fell short. The bickering, silly. The writing fell short, imo.
S 6 - the later episodes went dark and they pulled me in. The demons and ghosts of the past need to be explored. Let's get real. If they're going to pull apart a (newly married couple), then do it. And, they did.
S7 ? They should go for it. Pain, sorrow, and where they go from there ?? Let's hope the writing kicks in and blows us away !
No need to apologize. You're a passionate fan. Nice to meet you...:)