Yep, but if Liverpool were to win the league how bad would it look on the other teams?
United, worst title defence in how long, City and Chelsea spending so much yet finishing "empty handed", Arsenal not taking the next step even with stability, Spurs being Spurs and spending on dross.
I think City won't lose next week, and Arsenal's top four place may hinge on them getting a result at Goodison. They lose, and it could be Liverpool's.
It show how woeful our teams in the CL are, no body would fear any English side come next season.
Id think it would be a brilliant achievement to all involved though.
It does beg the question what is the point of hanging on like grim death to a manager who's entering the sunset of his career and who is not willing to change anything to stop the stagnation?
It does beg the question what is the point of hanging on like grim death to a manager who's entering the sunset of his career and who is not willing to change anything to stop the stagnation?
Because the money keeps rolling in. He keeps the balance sheet healthy while nobody has to spend the going rate for quality players.
Because the money keeps rolling in. He keeps the balance sheet healthy while nobody has to spend the going rate for quality players.
You are right but sooner or later we will need a new manager. It's almost like we are entering a period of limbo. Better to get things sorted now for the sake of another 2 years of stagnation. I know the main shareholder and the board see it differently but I'm not sure how much longer the fans can be patient. Things could become very toxic.
I'm not bothered if we miss out on CL TBH, all it means is we'll be spared getting knocked out to Barca/Bayern. We just have to win the FA Cup and if we get in the Europa League, so be it.
Whilst I prefer rising up the league to win it to stagnation in 4th, I FAR prefer stagnation in 4th to humiliation in 5th or disintegration into 6th or worse - shiny silver or not.
For me Everton in 4th spanks and humiliates us with a shiny silver cup. No doubt at all.
Simpy its because the board know the fans are mugs for the game. They know we love the team and will go and watch and pay regardless.
One good thing Wenger has done is left the club in good stead for who ever takes over, i just hope our fans right now don't expect a big name it won't be.
Liverpool Owner took a chance on Rodgers and backed him to go and win stuff. Yes they have not spend loads but will in the summer, now they have CL footie. Think how many top players will want to go there and come to us. Who would have said this in the summer? Suraez must be laughing so hard.
If we had a owner who wanted to win things, we would the manager would have been forced to spend instead of being allowed to settle for 4th.
Liverpool haven't won anything yet and Henry's first objective is CL football, like all American owners. But Rodgers has a plan, they play very good football and they are competitive.
At Arsenal, there is no pressure to win trophies. Not until this season, given Wenger wants to justify his contract extension. Winning the FA Cup would be a great achivement, but ultimately a red herring -- imagine if the team faced Citeh instead of Wigan? Crisis narrative in overdrive.
When the going gets tough, Arsene's set in his ways because of his age and experience. Not good for a club wanting to move "forward", and doesn't help him either. He needs a break and a new challenge. And Arsenal need a new direction because how long can fans tolerate the same old, same old every season? Always a bridesmaid, never a bride. Then again, I don't think any one here was convinced by Arsenal's title challenge.
What is unforgivable is the club not making full use of its resources to compete. You can blame Wenger for that, but why isn't anyone on board pushing him into a corner like Dein used to?
The wake up call should've happened last year, the year before, but no one ever learns. Some of the players need a rollicking. I just think Wenger trusts his players too much. So what you get is few progressing finely (Ramsey), and the rest looking useless (Giroud).
I'm not bothered if we miss out on CL TBH, all it means is we'll be spared getting knocked out to Barca/Bayern. We just have to win the FA Cup and if we get in the Europa League, so be it.
This time it will be worse, we won't even be in pot 1 or maybe pot 2 if we get in it. So we could get a group in which we struggle again. Not to mention the 2 qualifying games.
Whilst I prefer rising up the league to win it to stagnation in 4th, I FAR prefer stagnation in 4th to humiliation in 5th or disintegration into 6th or worse - shiny silver or not.
For me Everton in 4th spanks and humiliates us with a shiny silver cup. No doubt at all.
Finishing 5th is not all bad, we can sustain it for one or 2 seasons. It what we do once we finish 5th. If we don't go and sign top players to get us back into cl then we could be messed up.
My only problem with finish 5th, apart from playing in the EL is we will be doing what we hate. playing for 4th place.
You are right but sooner or later we will need a new manager. It's almost like we are entering a period of limbo. Better to get things sorted now for the sake of another 2 years of stagnation. I know the main shareholder and the board see it differently but I'm not sure how much longer the fans can be patient. Things could become very toxic.
Agree, the fans won't need much to tip them over the edge which is why next Saturday is huge. We'll have over 50,000 fans there next Saturday who won't suffer humiliation by Wigan.
Whilst I prefer rising up the league to win it to stagnation in 4th, I FAR prefer stagnation in 4th to humiliation in 5th or disintegration into 6th or worse - shiny silver or not.
For me Everton in 4th spanks and humiliates us with a shiny silver cup. No doubt at all.
Jesus wept. All of the above means 3 more years of Wenger and going round in circles. Him signing a new deal should frighten Gooners more than anything and your solution means precisely that.
This is what I don't get with Kroenke. He doesn't take any money out of the club but he doesn't put anything either as we 're self sustaining so to speak. Which leaves the question of why is he our owner? Nobody has been able to answer that question to the best of my knowledge.
There is no realistic business case for putting money into Arsenal until things start falling apart. Thats the cold hard reality of the situation.
You spent £40m on Ozil this summer.
Last season without him you were fighting for top 4. This season with him you are fighting for top 4.
From a purely business perspective, keep the £40m cos it makes no difference.
To properly challenge for the title will need huge investment and even then you could lose out to Chelsea or City (or even us if we had our house in order!) so it makes far more sense to keep your powder dry and collect the CL money as long as top 4 is always attainable. Its not nice and its not what any fan wants to hear but it does make a fair bit of sense.
There is no realistic business case for putting money into Arsenal until things start falling apart. Thats the cold hard reality of the situation.
You spent £40m on Ozil this summer.
Last season without him you were fighting for top 4. This season with him you are fighting for top 4.
From a purely business perspective, keep the £40m cos it makes no difference.
To properly challenge for the title will need huge investment and even then you could lose out to Chelsea or City (or even us if we had our house in order!) so it makes far more sense to keep your powder dry and collect the CL money as long as top 4 is always attainable. Its not nice and its not what any fan wants to hear but it does make a fair bit of sense.
I wouldn't disagree with any of it but essentially Kroenke is cash neutral in all of this so what does he get out of it? Do I think he'll give a new manager or the current one money to spend? I honestly don't know and we probably won't until we move out of the top 4. There's over 100 million in cash reserves and the club have slapped 3% on tickets next season, they might find they can't shift season tickets if this continues which could be disastrous as the stadium isn't paid off for another 17 years.
This time it will be worse, we won't even be in pot 1 or maybe pot 2 if we get in it. So we could get a group in which we struggle again. Not to mention the 2 qualifying games.
Finishing 5th is not all bad, we can sustain it for one or 2 seasons. It what we do once we finish 5th. If we don't go and sign top players to get us back into cl then we could be messed up.
My only problem with finish 5th, apart from playing in the EL is we will be doing what we hate. playing for 4th place.
5th plus Cup and a couple of years in EL wilderness mean no Top 16 (or worse) for a couple of years and our Euro coefficient will start to plummet.
And then if and when we make 4th (or better) we will not get a decent seeding.
English Seeds
#4 Chelsea
#5 Man Utd
#7 Arsenal
#19 Spurs
#22 Man City
#32 Liverpool
#47 Fulham
#70 Newcastle
#82 Stoke
#83 Everton
#87 Swansea
#88 Birmingham
#95 Wigan
#96 Villa
OK if we win the EL then our co-efficient will rise. If not it will start to take a tumble.
I wouldn't disagree with any of it but essentially Kroenke is cash neutral in all of this so what does he get out of it? Do I think he'll give a new manager or the current one money to spend? I honestly don't know and we probably won't until we move out of the top 4. There's over 100 million in cash reserves and the club have slapped 3% on tickets next season, they might find they can't shift season tickets if this continues which could be disastrous as the stadium isn't paid off for another 17 years.
Really? I must've thought it was almost paid off by now
Really? I must've thought it was almost paid off by now
One of the urban myths I'm afraid. We took out a 25 year mortgage and hoped to use the sale of flats on Highbury to pay for it. Then the credit crunch hit and shifting flats became harder for a while. I don't know how much is left but we have to pay off roughly. 20 mill per year on it. Then you see clubs like city & west ham getting free stadiums and you think why did we try to do things in the proper way?
5th plus Cup and a couple of years in EL wilderness mean no Top 16 (or worse) for a couple of years and our Euro coefficient will start to plummet.
And then if and when we make 4th (or better) we will not get a decent seeding.
English Seeds
#4 Chelsea
#5 Man Utd
#7 Arsenal
#19 Spurs
#22 Man City
#32 Liverpool
#47 Fulham
#70 Newcastle
#82 Stoke
#83 Everton
#87 Swansea
#88 Birmingham
#95 Wigan
#96 Villa
OK if we win the EL then our co-efficient will rise. If not it will start to take a tumble.
Yes were 7th but only just, if Athletico beat Barca they go 7th and if Valencia and Porto both get to the next round of the El we could be 10th.
I guess because Utd may not qualify if we do we could get a top spot still. Everton on the other hand could be interesting to see.
Back to Arsenal and years of underspending on the squad has caught up with us, previous years of trying to get 4th has managed to hide this but the 1 year we are leading it shows up big time.
Fans can see this but incredible that the management couldn't
Oh they sure will be, but there is no one that has a better away record than we do, and with us being away, that gives us as good a chance as any of progressing to the semi's. ;-)
Comments
Yup, our Strikers seem to be lacking confidence to score. Poldi's shooting was woeful and Giroud was well Giroud.
Now Sanongo is under pressure, well get in the EL next season and he can play in that, he'd look workd class against those poor teams.
From where we were to where we are now its shocking From 10 points or more above everton with a better GD, now we are worse off.
Wenger just loves to be humiliated each season.
.
It show how woeful our teams in the CL are, no body would fear any English side come next season.
Id think it would be a brilliant achievement to all involved though.
Because the money keeps rolling in. He keeps the balance sheet healthy while nobody has to spend the going rate for quality players.
You are right but sooner or later we will need a new manager. It's almost like we are entering a period of limbo. Better to get things sorted now for the sake of another 2 years of stagnation. I know the main shareholder and the board see it differently but I'm not sure how much longer the fans can be patient. Things could become very toxic.
For me Everton in 4th spanks and humiliates us with a shiny silver cup. No doubt at all.
One good thing Wenger has done is left the club in good stead for who ever takes over, i just hope our fans right now don't expect a big name it won't be.
- @clarkeysean.
Hahaha!! So true!
At Arsenal, there is no pressure to win trophies. Not until this season, given Wenger wants to justify his contract extension. Winning the FA Cup would be a great achivement, but ultimately a red herring -- imagine if the team faced Citeh instead of Wigan? Crisis narrative in overdrive.
When the going gets tough, Arsene's set in his ways because of his age and experience. Not good for a club wanting to move "forward", and doesn't help him either. He needs a break and a new challenge. And Arsenal need a new direction because how long can fans tolerate the same old, same old every season? Always a bridesmaid, never a bride. Then again, I don't think any one here was convinced by Arsenal's title challenge.
What is unforgivable is the club not making full use of its resources to compete. You can blame Wenger for that, but why isn't anyone on board pushing him into a corner like Dein used to?
The wake up call should've happened last year, the year before, but no one ever learns. Some of the players need a rollicking. I just think Wenger trusts his players too much. So what you get is few progressing finely (Ramsey), and the rest looking useless (Giroud).
This time it will be worse, we won't even be in pot 1 or maybe pot 2 if we get in it. So we could get a group in which we struggle again. Not to mention the 2 qualifying games.
Finishing 5th is not all bad, we can sustain it for one or 2 seasons. It what we do once we finish 5th. If we don't go and sign top players to get us back into cl then we could be messed up.
My only problem with finish 5th, apart from playing in the EL is we will be doing what we hate. playing for 4th place.
Agree, the fans won't need much to tip them over the edge which is why next Saturday is huge. We'll have over 50,000 fans there next Saturday who won't suffer humiliation by Wigan.
Jesus wept. All of the above means 3 more years of Wenger and going round in circles. Him signing a new deal should frighten Gooners more than anything and your solution means precisely that.
There is no realistic business case for putting money into Arsenal until things start falling apart. Thats the cold hard reality of the situation.
You spent £40m on Ozil this summer.
Last season without him you were fighting for top 4. This season with him you are fighting for top 4.
From a purely business perspective, keep the £40m cos it makes no difference.
To properly challenge for the title will need huge investment and even then you could lose out to Chelsea or City (or even us if we had our house in order!) so it makes far more sense to keep your powder dry and collect the CL money as long as top 4 is always attainable. Its not nice and its not what any fan wants to hear but it does make a fair bit of sense.
I wouldn't disagree with any of it but essentially Kroenke is cash neutral in all of this so what does he get out of it? Do I think he'll give a new manager or the current one money to spend? I honestly don't know and we probably won't until we move out of the top 4. There's over 100 million in cash reserves and the club have slapped 3% on tickets next season, they might find they can't shift season tickets if this continues which could be disastrous as the stadium isn't paid off for another 17 years.
BiB: Here are the current UEFA coefficients
http://www.footballseeding.com/club-ranking/
5th plus Cup and a couple of years in EL wilderness mean no Top 16 (or worse) for a couple of years and our Euro coefficient will start to plummet.
And then if and when we make 4th (or better) we will not get a decent seeding.
English Seeds
#4 Chelsea
#5 Man Utd
#7 Arsenal
#19 Spurs
#22 Man City
#32 Liverpool
#47 Fulham
#70 Newcastle
#82 Stoke
#83 Everton
#87 Swansea
#88 Birmingham
#95 Wigan
#96 Villa
OK if we win the EL then our co-efficient will rise. If not it will start to take a tumble.
Really?
£500M odd paid off in 8 years would be going some. 25 year loan period....2031.
One of the urban myths I'm afraid. We took out a 25 year mortgage and hoped to use the sale of flats on Highbury to pay for it. Then the credit crunch hit and shifting flats became harder for a while. I don't know how much is left but we have to pay off roughly. 20 mill per year on it. Then you see clubs like city & west ham getting free stadiums and you think why did we try to do things in the proper way?
Yes were 7th but only just, if Athletico beat Barca they go 7th and if Valencia and Porto both get to the next round of the El we could be 10th.
I guess because Utd may not qualify if we do we could get a top spot still. Everton on the other hand could be interesting to see.
Valencia won't get to the next round and won't qualify for the EL never mind the CL.
So if we sneak 4th in the 95th minute at Norwich we''ll get a top spot next year as no Utd. All's well if we get another Last 16.
That is all on the priviso that we don't go and win the whole tournement this year! ;-)
I fancy utd to beat Bayern, mental I know.
Back to Arsenal and years of underspending on the squad has caught up with us, previous years of trying to get 4th has managed to hide this but the 1 year we are leading it shows up big time.
Fans can see this but incredible that the management couldn't
Oh they sure will be, but there is no one that has a better away record than we do, and with us being away, that gives us as good a chance as any of progressing to the semi's. ;-)