I'm not having this lack of quality in the final third.
We had quality with Sturridge, Stirling and even wellbeck caused them problems.
The rest of the team were either anonymous or poor.
Rooney, out of position exposed bains' lack of defensive skills. We are really missing Ashley cole now as shaw just will not play well at this level yet.
Johnson, is he really the best we have at rb?
Hart had an error in him all game, and nearly cost us two goals with some basic problems.
Bains, Rooney and possibly gerrard need to be changed for the next game.
I think we do have problems in the strikers. The players being eulogised for England are midfielders, not strikers. Brazil, Argentina the strikers come first.
So you end up like England Brazil 1970. Brazil win 1-0, but they make a, lot of chances and only convert 1, while we make 1 chance, and fail to convert it
Welbeck, sturridge, Rooney, Lambert is just not good enough at this level. I think.
He's a decent manager with international experience. Tonight was an improvement on what's gone before so I would say that is moving forward. Will we sustain that? We'll see on Thursday.
Kudos to you for such faith in him... and I respect your opinion, but I can't agree with it. He's been in charge for over two years now and he still doesn't know what his best team is and he's afraid to make the big decisions.
I'd agree with the scattered posts about Ashley Cole. I like Leighton Baines and all, but I feel assured when Cole plays.
We say this now but how many people supported Hodgson's squad selection when he selected Baines and Shaw ahead of Cole? I do wonder if we're looking more to the future and Euro 2016 with some of the selections.
I think we do have problems in the strikers. The players being eulogised for England are midfielders, not strikers. Brazil, Argentina the strikers come first.
So you end up like England Brazil 1970. Brazil win 1-0, but they make a, lot of chances and only convert 1, while we make 1 chance, and fail to convert it
Welbeck, sturridge, Rooney, Lambert is just not good enough at this level. I think.
Sturridge and Rooney are good enough fowards for England. Who would you replace them with? I don't really rate Welbeck and Lambert that much though....
We say this now but how many people supported Hodgson's squad selection when he selected Baines and Shaw ahead of Cole? I do wonder if we're looking more to the future and Euro 2016 with some of the selections.
There's definitely a method to his selection to the point that I was very surprised Lampard's in the squad, but I personally still rate Cole as the best option at left-back.
Kudos to you for such faith in him... and I respect your opinion, but I can't agree with it. He's been in charge for over two years now and he still doesn't know what his best team is and he's afraid to make the big decisions.
I wouldn't say he was afraid to make big decisions - he's made a few with the squad choices and team selection tonight. I agree to an extent about not knowing his best team but that's partly due to the younger players really breaking through this season plus the Southampton contingent having a great year. That tied in with a few players aging and picking up injuries has resulted in constant changes to the line up. I don't think it's Hodgson as much as his hand being forced on many occasions.
- The front four looked lively in the first half and really took on their men. It had far more pace, intent and menace than England teams have possessed for a long time now.
- I generally applaud the move to give the younger players a chance. It was good that Sterling, Barkley and Lallana were all thrown into the thick of the action.
- I thought Cahill and Jagielka did as well as we could have hoped, given the pressure heaped upon them from the wings.
And the negatives:
- Defensively, the problems are obvious and difficult to address. A weakness down the sides is a natural sIde-effect of the attacking style of play (which I wouldn't want to lose).
- We didn't adapt tactically after Italy's second goal and were left still trying to counter attack when they had 11 men organised behind the ball. I'd have turned to Lambert rather than more midfielders late on.
- Rooney and Gerrard. I don't think either were terrible or fully deserve the stick they're about to get. But in those moments late in the game you need your team's leaders to stand up, be counted and produce the goods. Neither of them did.
Overall, I'm disappointed - but actually feel rather sorry for most of the players, rather than the anger which has characterised the last few tournaments for me. I've often been left feeling like the players just couldn't give a damn - and that's definitely not the case looking back at tonight's performance. Italy played superbly well, were tactically clever and technically gifted. I think Hodgson now has to double down and try and convince those young guns that we can turn over Uruguay. Because if Costa Rica can get at them, we certainly can too.
I'd agree with the scattered posts about Ashley Cole. I like Leighton Baines and all, but I feel assured when Cole plays.
Exactly. Looking good for Everton in the PL is one thing - doing it for a decade for England, and doing it when it matters in the big tournaments - is something else completely... the Italian wide man had Baines in his pocket tonight, but Cole has regularly dealt with better and faster players than him. Real shame, as the other youthful choices were good, but this one (Shaw for Cole) was always a glaring mistake.
Right, time for Japan v Ireland... err Ivory Coast...
So you believe Hodgson is a good manager and everything is wonderful? England are not going backwards... but they're not going forwards either. It's all stagnant. We're fortunate Italy are also not firing on all cylinders at the minute.
I think Roy Hodgson is a good manager.
Things are not wonderful no. But for the last couple of decades England were slow, defensive, plodding, and predictable. At least now we're trying to be a decent attacking team, and are getting there.
The problem is that there are probably better teams than England out there, and when that's the case there's not a lot you can do about it. Hodgson can only choose from the players that are available.
I sometimes think that the England manager is harshly criticised over the years, but the performance record of wins versus losses has been pretty good across several managers.
Sometimes we simply don't have the players that are as capable as they should be at World Cup standard. This current young team shows heart and definitely shows a lot of potential. Even if we get dumped out of this world cup I'd actually still feel positive about the development of the current team after a week or two of feeling a bit down.
It's always disappointing if we lose, but I don't think that it's always constructive to instinctively look to blame somebody.
This current team looks like an exciting prospect for the future to me. Something I don't feel I could have said for many years.
There's definitely a method to his selection to the point that I was very surprised Lampard's in the squad, but I personally still rate Cole as the best option at left-back.
I think the Lampard argument is that we needed another experienced midfielder in the squad in case something happened to Gerrard. Milner is alright but doesn't command the same respect (whether Gerrard or Lampard deserve this respect considering their performances in an England shirt is up for debate). Give it two years and the likes of Barkley, Henderson and Wilshere - as long as he stays fit - will have more experience so the 'second' member of the old guard won't be needed.
Kudos to you for such faith in him... and I respect your opinion, but I can't agree with it. He's been in charge for over two years now and he still doesn't know what his best team is and he's afraid to make the big decisions.
Dont blame the current England manager for poor results, no manager in the world can get a better tune out of that group of second rate players.
Blame the Premier League for their anti English player stance, caring more about promoting foreign players than homegrown talent, blame the likes of Chalsea and Man City for ruining the English game with thier money , there are more overseas players in the top two leagues in the English game now, no other top league in the world would allow that as they care about protecting their home grown players.
We could have the greatest managers of all time with that England team but would not get a better tune out of them, theres money and the might of the Prem League against them, we went into this world cup handicapped.
Decent players doesn't cut it in the World Cup, when you need is the worlds best and it's obvious we don't have that.
The set-up we have have training young players in the county isn't working and you just have to look at Chelsea and co which are teams made of primarily foreign players. They would rather spend £40m on Hazard then develop home grown players.
England as team will continue to fail unless there is a fundamental changes to the sport in this country.
We have tried and Italian manager, Swedish manager with much the same result and it's because regardless of manager the players just as not as talented as Italians, Spanish or most other teams.
I think the English mindset is part of the reason we will never stand a chance of winning an international tournament.
We put far too much emphasis on pace, passion and commitment when it's composure and picking the right passes at the right time that matters. We try and force chances rather than create them. When we are in and around the box we always seem to play the wrong pass or choose the wrong option. Where other teams will cut a ball back or play a short through ball, we always seem to want to head for the byline and smash a hopeful ball across the box. We really do rely very heavily on crosses.
The better teams are so much more composed than us and position themselves far better on the pitch. They pick better passes, actually pick their heads up and look around them and can slice right through us when playing almost at walking pace.
The man is played out of position, alright he missed a chance, but he set up Sturridge for his goal.
There is always a stick to beat him with, it is utter tiresome, if he scores on Thursday will he be a hero, or will people still want to bitch and complain about him.
I don't know why im asking this question, I already know the answer its so predictable.
I don't want to be harsh on him because over the years he has scored many goals for England and is on course to be England's all time highest goal scorer.
But I just don't understand why he can't deliver on the World Cup Stage.
I really hope he scores against Uruguay, not just to make us happy, but for himself too so that it fills him with confidence to start knocking them in.
Dont blame the current England manager for poor results, no manager in the world can get a better tune out of that group of second rate players.
Blame the Premier League for their anti English player stance, caring more about promoting foreign players than homegrown talent, blame the likes of Chalsea and Man City for ruining the English game with thier money , there are more overseas players in the top two leagues in the English game now, no other top league in the world would allow that as they care about protecting their home grown players.
We could have the greatest managers of all time with that England team but would not get a better tune out of them, theres money and the might of the Prem League against them, we went into this world cup handicapped.
Comments like that are bizzare. Why pay any manager then?
Has anyone who isn't a United fan defended Rooney's performance tonight?
Not a United fan (or a Premier League fan) - Rooney worked hard, but looked frustrated playing out of position, and didn't look as sharp as i'm sure he would like to be. He did create the goal with an excellent cross though, so he did contribute.
The miss in the second half looked like a player not quite at his best, and trying too hard with the pressure of expectation on his shoulder. He is the easy scapegoat - the last few weeks seems to have been a constant exercise in the press to put more and more pressure on him - can't be helpful! Perhaps the press don't want to be seen as attacking the young players, so have to make do with the obvious one.
Rooney just isn't world-class. That much should be clear to all by now.
I couldn't say that he's not world class because he's scored so many goals internationally. Who's scored more out of who is available to the team?
However there may be something to be said that he isn't 'World Cup class' which is probably a level above world class alone, due to nations trying to get their absolute best teams out there and when the star players raise their game to perform on the world stage.
I get sick of saying the same thing but experience is worthless. How many times do the likes of Gerrard, Rooney & Lampard need to be outshone by inexperienced teammates before people realise this?
we'll still get through, uruguay are poor apart from the two strikers suarez and cavani and suarez is half fit at best. we don't even need to beat uruguay, draw with them and beat costa rica and we are through, uruguay would have to score a hatful against italy to beat us on goal difference which won't happen. when oh when are england managers going to learn not to play players out of position, rooney and welbeck on the wings is ridiculous, i just don't understand it, neither of them are wide players.
Dont blame the current England manager for poor results, no manager in the world can get a better tune out of that group of second rate players.
Blame the Premier League for their anti English player stance, caring more about promoting foreign players than homegrown talent, blame the likes of Chalsea and Man City for ruining the English game with thier money , there are more overseas players in the top two leagues in the English game now, no other top league in the world would allow that as they care about protecting their home grown players.
We could have the greatest managers of all time with that England team but would not get a better tune out of them, theres money and the might of the Prem League against them, we went into this world cup handicapped.
Chelsea and Manchester City are responsible for tonights loss.
we'll still get through, uruguay are poor apart from the two strikers suarez and cavani and suarez is half fit at best. we don't even need to beat uruguay, draw with them and beat costa rica and we are through, uruguay would have to score a hatful against italy to beat us on goal difference which won't happen. when oh when are england managers going to learn not to play players out of position, rooney and welbeck on the wings is ridiculous, i just don't understand it, neither of them are wide players.
To be fair, Welbeck had a good game. And Rooney made the goal from the left so he must have had it in him to be a threat.
with the result in the other game tonight England are now sort of playing knock out football
loser of the game between England and Uruguay is basically out , I know it would be mathematically possible for England to qualify should they lose but it would be a stretch
then should England get a result against Uruguay the game against costa rica becomes a decider
Comments
I think we do have problems in the strikers. The players being eulogised for England are midfielders, not strikers. Brazil, Argentina the strikers come first.
So you end up like England Brazil 1970. Brazil win 1-0, but they make a, lot of chances and only convert 1, while we make 1 chance, and fail to convert it
Welbeck, sturridge, Rooney, Lambert is just not good enough at this level. I think.
Kudos to you for such faith in him... and I respect your opinion, but I can't agree with it. He's been in charge for over two years now and he still doesn't know what his best team is and he's afraid to make the big decisions.
We say this now but how many people supported Hodgson's squad selection when he selected Baines and Shaw ahead of Cole? I do wonder if we're looking more to the future and Euro 2016 with some of the selections.
Sturridge and Rooney are good enough fowards for England. Who would you replace them with? I don't really rate Welbeck and Lambert that much though....
There's definitely a method to his selection to the point that I was very surprised Lampard's in the squad, but I personally still rate Cole as the best option at left-back.
I wouldn't say he was afraid to make big decisions - he's made a few with the squad choices and team selection tonight. I agree to an extent about not knowing his best team but that's partly due to the younger players really breaking through this season plus the Southampton contingent having a great year. That tied in with a few players aging and picking up injuries has resulted in constant changes to the line up. I don't think it's Hodgson as much as his hand being forced on many occasions.
- The front four looked lively in the first half and really took on their men. It had far more pace, intent and menace than England teams have possessed for a long time now.
- I generally applaud the move to give the younger players a chance. It was good that Sterling, Barkley and Lallana were all thrown into the thick of the action.
- I thought Cahill and Jagielka did as well as we could have hoped, given the pressure heaped upon them from the wings.
And the negatives:
- Defensively, the problems are obvious and difficult to address. A weakness down the sides is a natural sIde-effect of the attacking style of play (which I wouldn't want to lose).
- We didn't adapt tactically after Italy's second goal and were left still trying to counter attack when they had 11 men organised behind the ball. I'd have turned to Lambert rather than more midfielders late on.
- Rooney and Gerrard. I don't think either were terrible or fully deserve the stick they're about to get. But in those moments late in the game you need your team's leaders to stand up, be counted and produce the goods. Neither of them did.
Overall, I'm disappointed - but actually feel rather sorry for most of the players, rather than the anger which has characterised the last few tournaments for me. I've often been left feeling like the players just couldn't give a damn - and that's definitely not the case looking back at tonight's performance. Italy played superbly well, were tactically clever and technically gifted. I think Hodgson now has to double down and try and convince those young guns that we can turn over Uruguay. Because if Costa Rica can get at them, we certainly can too.
Exactly. Looking good for Everton in the PL is one thing - doing it for a decade for England, and doing it when it matters in the big tournaments - is something else completely... the Italian wide man had Baines in his pocket tonight, but Cole has regularly dealt with better and faster players than him. Real shame, as the other youthful choices were good, but this one (Shaw for Cole) was always a glaring mistake.
Right, time for Japan v Ireland... err Ivory Coast...
I think Roy Hodgson is a good manager.
Things are not wonderful no. But for the last couple of decades England were slow, defensive, plodding, and predictable. At least now we're trying to be a decent attacking team, and are getting there.
The problem is that there are probably better teams than England out there, and when that's the case there's not a lot you can do about it. Hodgson can only choose from the players that are available.
I sometimes think that the England manager is harshly criticised over the years, but the performance record of wins versus losses has been pretty good across several managers.
Sometimes we simply don't have the players that are as capable as they should be at World Cup standard. This current young team shows heart and definitely shows a lot of potential. Even if we get dumped out of this world cup I'd actually still feel positive about the development of the current team after a week or two of feeling a bit down.
It's always disappointing if we lose, but I don't think that it's always constructive to instinctively look to blame somebody.
This current team looks like an exciting prospect for the future to me. Something I don't feel I could have said for many years.
I think the Lampard argument is that we needed another experienced midfielder in the squad in case something happened to Gerrard. Milner is alright but doesn't command the same respect (whether Gerrard or Lampard deserve this respect considering their performances in an England shirt is up for debate). Give it two years and the likes of Barkley, Henderson and Wilshere - as long as he stays fit - will have more experience so the 'second' member of the old guard won't be needed.
Dont blame the current England manager for poor results, no manager in the world can get a better tune out of that group of second rate players.
Blame the Premier League for their anti English player stance, caring more about promoting foreign players than homegrown talent, blame the likes of Chalsea and Man City for ruining the English game with thier money , there are more overseas players in the top two leagues in the English game now, no other top league in the world would allow that as they care about protecting their home grown players.
We could have the greatest managers of all time with that England team but would not get a better tune out of them, theres money and the might of the Prem League against them, we went into this world cup handicapped.
I think the English mindset is part of the reason we will never stand a chance of winning an international tournament.
We put far too much emphasis on pace, passion and commitment when it's composure and picking the right passes at the right time that matters. We try and force chances rather than create them. When we are in and around the box we always seem to play the wrong pass or choose the wrong option. Where other teams will cut a ball back or play a short through ball, we always seem to want to head for the byline and smash a hopeful ball across the box. We really do rely very heavily on crosses.
The better teams are so much more composed than us and position themselves far better on the pitch. They pick better passes, actually pick their heads up and look around them and can slice right through us when playing almost at walking pace.
I don't want to be harsh on him because over the years he has scored many goals for England and is on course to be England's all time highest goal scorer.
But I just don't understand why he can't deliver on the World Cup Stage.
I really hope he scores against Uruguay, not just to make us happy, but for himself too so that it fills him with confidence to start knocking them in.
Comments like that are bizzare. Why pay any manager then?
Without a manager we'd be in a worse state than we are now.
Not a United fan (or a Premier League fan) - Rooney worked hard, but looked frustrated playing out of position, and didn't look as sharp as i'm sure he would like to be. He did create the goal with an excellent cross though, so he did contribute.
The miss in the second half looked like a player not quite at his best, and trying too hard with the pressure of expectation on his shoulder. He is the easy scapegoat - the last few weeks seems to have been a constant exercise in the press to put more and more pressure on him - can't be helpful! Perhaps the press don't want to be seen as attacking the young players, so have to make do with the obvious one.
I couldn't say that he's not world class because he's scored so many goals internationally. Who's scored more out of who is available to the team?
However there may be something to be said that he isn't 'World Cup class' which is probably a level above world class alone, due to nations trying to get their absolute best teams out there and when the star players raise their game to perform on the world stage.
Gerrard is no kind of leader.
Chelsea and Manchester City are responsible for tonights loss.
Seems logical...
To be fair, Welbeck had a good game. And Rooney made the goal from the left so he must have had it in him to be a threat.
loser of the game between England and Uruguay is basically out , I know it would be mathematically possible for England to qualify should they lose but it would be a stretch
then should England get a result against Uruguay the game against costa rica becomes a decider