The mistake (just as in Iraq) was having no plan for what happens after a government is disposed.
There is often a very good humanitarian case for International military intervention to protect civilians from their own government. Trying to save lives is never "a very stupid thing to do".
I've already told you there is a direct train from Exeter to Plymouth that doesn't go via Dawlish. If you wish to travel by train from Dawlish to Plymouth you have to change at Newton Abbot.
Please read my posts more slowly - as you're not getting it.
You have to go through Dawlish, but the train does not stop there. You physically cannot go further than Newton Abbot on the train without doing so. It is like saying that you drive through XYZ village to reach ABC town without you stopping in the village and getting out of the car.
The Dawlish sea wall is unfortunately a very important part of the south west's rail infrastructure. All trains between Plymouth/Cornwall, and Exeter / the rest of the country pass through Dawlish, even if they do not stop at the station in Dawlish.
This is why, when the Dawlish sea wall collapsed, there were no trains between Exeter and Plymouth - with trains between Penzance and Exeter/Bristol/London terminating at Newton Abbot, and trains between London and Plymouth/Penzance/Torquay terminating at Exeter. Had there been an alternative route between Exeter and Plymouth, the problem would be much smaller than it was (and had necessitated the ultra rapid rebuild)
Are we on board with my point now? (pun not intended)
"Corbyn to nationalise railways and energy companies"
Good man he would get my vote, you know it's going to happen sooner or later to these services, it was a crime they were sold off/given away to start with water too.
So you don't have any facts to back up your assumption that refugees have reached Britain
As for Libya being a mess it was already undergoing a civil war so it was in a mess before neither Afghanistan or Iraq were in a mess as you put it before Blairs intervention and are in a far worse state now than they were before
Incidentally it was a NATO operation not a Cameron one
We all know that the numbers of migrants coming to Europe has increased massively since Gadaffi was toppled. Unless you can show me extra measure being put in place to stop them reaching Britain, simple logic would dictate that the numbers entering Britain have also increased over the same time frame.
And incidentally, neither Iraq nor Afghanistan were unilateral initiatives of the Labour party either. Incidentally again, Afghanistan was indeed a mess before the US and UK invaded, there had been a civil war raging there for around 30 years.
The mistake (just as in Iraq) was having no plan for what happens after a government is disposed.
There is often a very good humanitarian case for International military intervention to protect civilians from their own government. Trying to save lives is never "a very stupid thing to do".
We all know that the numbers of migrants coming to Europe has increased massively since Gadaffi was toppled. Unless you can show me extra measure being put in place to stop them reaching Britain, simple logic would dictate that the numbers entering Britain have also increased over the same time frame.
And incidentally, neither Iraq nor Afghanistan were unilateral initiatives of the Labour party either. Incidentally again, Afghanistan was indeed a mess before the US and UK invaded, there had been a civil war raging there for around 30 years.
I think you need to check on Afghan history and look at the voting on the NATO bombing of Libya
Assumptions and logic aren't fact so figures please on the number of extra refugees that have set foot in the UK as a result of what happened in Libya
If you want a return to 70s thats fine but anyone with an ounce of sense wouldn't I know that you remember 1978/79 as well as I do you can't seriously want a return to those days can you ?
Maybe you prefer illegal wars leading to deaths of hundreds of thousands and destabilizing not only the Middle East but threatening Europe and the UK or uncontrolled immigration driving down wages and causing massive strain on housing and health services
The Conservatives are far from perfect but they pale into insignificance compared to what Labour has done during its terms in office
How many of the refugees from Libya have turned up in the UK ?
I'm not aware that IS had killed hundreds of thousands in Libya or held such a large area in its control as they do in Syria/Iraq its also doesn't explain their hold in Sinai unless we bombed Egypt without anyone noticing , how about the IS partnership with Boku Harum , when did we bomb Nigeria , granted we have bombed Afghanistan where they also have a presence but that was another one of Blairs wars
So you don't have any facts to back up your assumption that refugees have reached Britain
As for Libya being a mess it was already undergoing a civil war so it was in a mess before neither Afghanistan or Iraq were in a mess as you put it before Blairs intervention and are in a far worse state now than they were before
Incidentally it was a NATO operation not a Cameron one
Your masters at Conservative High Command must be proud of your defence of the indefensible. Your unquestioning loyalty will doubtless get you a peerage in the future.
Your masters at Conservative High Command must be proud of your defence of the indefensible. Your unquestioning loyalty will doubtless get you a peerage in the future.
I'm disappointed I would have thought you were capable of better
"Corbyn to nationalise railways and energy companies"
Good man he would get my vote, you know it's going to happen sooner or later to these services, it was a crime they were sold off/given away to start with water too.
Do you have a few hundred billion pounds spare to buy them back? Stealing is also a crime.
Please read my posts more slowly - as you're not getting it.
You have to go through Dawlish, but the train does not stop there. You physically cannot go further than Newton Abbot on the train without doing so. It is like saying that you drive through XYZ village to reach ABC town without you stopping in the village and getting out of the car.
The Dawlish sea wall is unfortunately a very important part of the south west's rail infrastructure. All trains between Plymouth/Cornwall, and Exeter / the rest of the country pass through Dawlish, even if they do not stop at the station in Dawlish.
This is why, when the Dawlish sea wall collapsed, there were no trains between Exeter and Plymouth - with trains between Penzance and Exeter/Bristol/London terminating at Newton Abbot, and trains between London and Plymouth/Penzance/Torquay terminating at Exeter. Had there been an alternative route between Exeter and Plymouth, the problem would be much smaller than it was (and had necessitated the ultra rapid rebuild)
Are we on board with my point now? (pun not intended)
You should have gone to Trainline as you palpably have no idea what you are talking about and your geography stinks as Newton Abbot is further west than Dawlish, i.e. past it, I will leave it there and you can continue in your ignorance.
I'm not sure what the Trainline has to do with it. They sell tickets, when did they become some sort of authority on rail lines? They aren't associated with a train company or Network Rail.
Your ignorance (my usage of the word is accurate, unlike yours) is made even more clear by using a journey planner as some sort of source. Most trains don't stop at Dawlish, which I have said repeatedly, but all trains go through Dawlish whether they stop there or not. A journey planner would therefore suggest that the train doesn't go near Dawlish, but in fact it does. Just like how it goes through Exeter St Thomas but doesn't stop there, or Newbury, or Reading West, or Slough, etc
I am firmly aware of the geography of Devon and Cornwall, having lived here for almost all of my life. I'm also aware of the rail route, having done London to Cornwall twice a week for a couple of years, smaller journeys for longer still, and having had to deal with bus replacement services during the Dawlish collapse.
But in case you still can't get it - here's a handy diagram from First Great Western, who ought to have some idea of where their trains travel - https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/-/media/pdf/routemaps/sc2-fgw-other-tocs.pdf - note that there is only one route between Newton Abbot and Exeter - via Dawlish and Dawlish Warren.
I'm wondering if you actually do live in Devon... Perhaps you live in Axminster or Honiton and never actually have cause to use the railway line you're pontificating about?
Either way - you might as well stop digging that hole
HS2 "could" reach £50bn too - but I'm sure you'll want to defend the notion that it'll hopefully come in at a lot less. When the government doesn't want to do something, they'll invent reasons against it. Dawlish doesn't fit in with the current government's obsession of the north, so numbers are fudged accordingly. Maybe Dawlish collapse 2 will give us traction (pun not intended)
The off peak ticket National Rail is suggesting is £80.60, for the same train that they are offering a £25 advance on.
Well, it's £40.80.
So the taxpayer should be expected to shell out £50bn to ensure acres of empty seats that aren't needed and may never be? (predictions can go either way in reality)
And maybe Dawlish won't collapse again. The predictions for HS2 traffic are quite conservative. And you'd still get the benefit of more intermediate express services on the existing West Coast Main Line.
3 minutes! Time to get the chequebook out! Luxury, if only people in other parts of the country could do that, rather than waiting an hour or more
You complained earlier about traffic queues on a few peak weekend days sometimes reaching your village. Where I live you get them for about 5 hours every weekday 51 weeks a year. Perhaps some people realise that the tradeoff for a quieter life is less frequent rail services.
The mainline service is roughly hourly at the moment, sometimes more frequent, sometimes not
(though faster is BS, it's like 9 minutes faster end to end on a trip that is currently 2 hours or more to get to Exeter)
So you are getting the investment.
The difference is that those towns likely don't get any real form of service, quite different from not being included in absolutely every intercity service to or from London
No, it's about services to and from the intermediate towns, not London. Many of those were cut when the 140mph fast end to end services were introduced. The analogy would be if express trains to London from, say Bodmin, only stopped at Plymouth a third of the time and never at Exeter instead of both always now..
The neglected parts of the network have been seeing passenger growth too - just no changes in speed, reliability or capacity to reward said business. In any other industry that'd be considered scope for upgrades - even on roads - but in the rail world, politicians rule and mediocrity is the order of the day, unless it can be used to buy votes (like the Conservatives' attempt to become the party of "the North", i.e. Manchester)
You only need more capacity if you are likely to fill the capacity you've got. The ends of the network will never need the capacity the spine does.
I'm not sure what the Trainline has to do with it. They sell tickets, when did they become some sort of authority on rail lines? They aren't associated with a train company or Network Rail.
Your ignorance (my usage of the word is accurate, unlike yours) is made even more clear by using a journey planner as some sort of source. Most trains don't stop at Dawlish, which I have said repeatedly, but all trains go through Dawlish whether they stop there or not.
I am firmly aware of the geography of Devon and Cornwall, having lived here for almost all of my life. I'm also aware of the rail route, having done London to Cornwall twice a week for a couple of years, smaller journeys for longer still, and having had to deal with bus replacement services during the Dawlish collapse.
But in case you still can't get it - here's a handy diagram from First Great Western, who ought to have some idea of where their trains travel - https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/-/media/pdf/routemaps/sc2-fgw-other-tocs.pdf - note that there is only one route between Newton Abbot and Exeter - via Dawlish and Dawlish Warren.
I'm wondering if you actually do live in Devon... Perhaps you live in Axminster or Honiton and never actually have cause to use the railway line you're pontificating about?
You palpably have no idea what you are talking about so I will leave it there and you can continue in your ignorance.
He's right. You can't get a train from Exeter to Cornwall without it going through Dawlish, even if it doesn't stop. There is no other line in existence and hasn't been for decades.
If that's the limit of your understanding, then I'm happy for you to believe that.
Well no argument about the support the bombing got from MPs no disputing it was a NATO not Cameron led campaign no disputing about the strain that uncontrolled immigration had on services what else is there to think
You have spent so long defending the indefensible , sorry the Labour party that you fail to accept that not everyone has to do the same
Got a list of these companies who are making obscene profits? - as I have some cash that needs investing.
You must know who the energy companies are. But here's SSE for you. With a 0.5% bank base rate ive no idea what return on investment this profit is. But its £69 profit from every household they supply: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32809908
You must know who the energy companies are. But here's SSE for you. With a 0.5% bank base rate ive no idea what return on investment this profit is. But its £69 profit from every household they supply: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32809908
sorry, but I need companies with a rather larger profit margin than 2%
2%??? Do you mean the 4.9% quoted in link as the profit margin on turnover? Which is similar to tescos profit margins on sales And more importantly a figure that has nothing to do with profit itself, as business profits are measured in Return on Investment (ROI). At a guess that'll be double or triple figure percentage, hence the growth in share price of 35%+ in 5 years
You palpably have no idea what you are talking about so I will leave it there and you can continue in your ignorance.
As someone who lived near Dawlish for years, I can assure you, he is absolutely right. Whether a train stops at Dawlish is irrelevant, the single passenger line that physically exists is the one past Dawlish.
There are many trains each day that dont stop at Dawlish, but all go along the physical route
Comments
The mistake (just as in Iraq) was having no plan for what happens after a government is disposed.
There is often a very good humanitarian case for International military intervention to protect civilians from their own government. Trying to save lives is never "a very stupid thing to do".
Please read my posts more slowly - as you're not getting it.
You have to go through Dawlish, but the train does not stop there. You physically cannot go further than Newton Abbot on the train without doing so. It is like saying that you drive through XYZ village to reach ABC town without you stopping in the village and getting out of the car.
The Dawlish sea wall is unfortunately a very important part of the south west's rail infrastructure. All trains between Plymouth/Cornwall, and Exeter / the rest of the country pass through Dawlish, even if they do not stop at the station in Dawlish.
This is why, when the Dawlish sea wall collapsed, there were no trains between Exeter and Plymouth - with trains between Penzance and Exeter/Bristol/London terminating at Newton Abbot, and trains between London and Plymouth/Penzance/Torquay terminating at Exeter. Had there been an alternative route between Exeter and Plymouth, the problem would be much smaller than it was (and had necessitated the ultra rapid rebuild)
Are we on board with my point now? (pun not intended)
Good man he would get my vote, you know it's going to happen sooner or later to these services, it was a crime they were sold off/given away to start with water too.
Exactly.
We all know that the numbers of migrants coming to Europe has increased massively since Gadaffi was toppled. Unless you can show me extra measure being put in place to stop them reaching Britain, simple logic would dictate that the numbers entering Britain have also increased over the same time frame.
And incidentally, neither Iraq nor Afghanistan were unilateral initiatives of the Labour party either. Incidentally again, Afghanistan was indeed a mess before the US and UK invaded, there had been a civil war raging there for around 30 years.
It is if your intervention makes things worse.
I think you need to check on Afghan history
Assumptions and logic aren't fact so figures please on the number of extra refugees that have set foot in the UK as a result of what happened in Libya
Your masters at Conservative High Command must be proud of your defence of the indefensible. Your unquestioning loyalty will doubtless get you a peerage in the future.
I'm disappointed I would have thought you were capable of better
Do you have a few hundred billion pounds spare to buy them back? Stealing is also a crime.
Apologies, but you aren't worth putting the effort in for decent satire.
I've got what you mean now in other words you don't have a decent argument against what I have said
You should have gone to Trainline.
http://www.thetrainline.com/buytickets/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTable#Journey/EXETER/PENZANCE/28/07/15/17/15/Dep//////Dep/1/0//
You palpably have no idea what you are talking about so I will leave it there and you can continue in your ignorance.
I'm not sure what the Trainline has to do with it. They sell tickets, when did they become some sort of authority on rail lines? They aren't associated with a train company or Network Rail.
Your ignorance (my usage of the word is accurate, unlike yours) is made even more clear by using a journey planner as some sort of source. Most trains don't stop at Dawlish, which I have said repeatedly, but all trains go through Dawlish whether they stop there or not. A journey planner would therefore suggest that the train doesn't go near Dawlish, but in fact it does. Just like how it goes through Exeter St Thomas but doesn't stop there, or Newbury, or Reading West, or Slough, etc
I am firmly aware of the geography of Devon and Cornwall, having lived here for almost all of my life. I'm also aware of the rail route, having done London to Cornwall twice a week for a couple of years, smaller journeys for longer still, and having had to deal with bus replacement services during the Dawlish collapse.
But in case you still can't get it - here's a handy diagram from First Great Western, who ought to have some idea of where their trains travel - https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/-/media/pdf/routemaps/sc2-fgw-other-tocs.pdf - note that there is only one route between Newton Abbot and Exeter - via Dawlish and Dawlish Warren.
Or perhaps, a news article will mollify you - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather/10619991/Cornwall-cut-off-after-rail-collapse.html - clearly stating that Newton Abbot to Penzance is one side of the breach, and Exeter to the rest of the country is on the other
I'm wondering if you actually do live in Devon... Perhaps you live in Axminster or Honiton and never actually have cause to use the railway line you're pontificating about?
Either way - you might as well stop digging that hole
Apologies, I'm off to Specsavers.
He's right. You can't get a train from Exeter to Cornwall without it going through Dawlish, even if it doesn't stop. There is no other line in existence and hasn't been for decades.
Edit:
http://www.railfuture-sw.co.uk/Bus-rail.gif
If that's the limit of your understanding, then I'm happy for you to believe that.
Well no argument about the support the bombing got from MPs no disputing it was a NATO not Cameron led campaign no disputing about the strain that uncontrolled immigration had on services what else is there to think
You have spent so long defending the indefensible , sorry the Labour party that you fail to accept that not everyone has to do the same
You must know who the energy companies are. But here's SSE for you. With a 0.5% bank base rate ive no idea what return on investment this profit is. But its £69 profit from every household they supply:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32809908
And share price anything between 35-45% growth in 5 years (versus the 1.5% most of us are likely to get with our small building society savings)
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=SSE.L#symbol=SSE.L;range=5y
So i still stand by my original point, its a tax on everyone to help those who have stocks and shares investments.
sorry, but I need companies with a rather larger profit margin than 2%
2%??? Do you mean the 4.9% quoted in link as the profit margin on turnover? Which is similar to tescos profit margins on sales And more importantly a figure that has nothing to do with profit itself, as business profits are measured in Return on Investment (ROI). At a guess that'll be double or triple figure percentage, hence the growth in share price of 35%+ in 5 years
No I mean the 2.1% for the most recent 12 months as shown in the Key Statistics in your link.
If you look at their recent performance their profit after tax is quite poor; 2012 = 0.83%, 2013 = 1.65%, 2014 = 1.45%, 2015 = 2.1%
Certainly not what I would call obscene profits tbh.
Oh right - it's not like we (the original owners) lost out when everything was privatised, including housing!
There are many trains each day that dont stop at Dawlish, but all go along the physical route