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Can murderers in EU escape supervision by just moving country?

What name??What name?? Posts: 26,623
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in General Discussion #1
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/18/alice-gross-police-arnis-zalkalns-murder-conviction-suspect

Police say that Zalkalns had a murder conviction in his native Latvia, where he was jailed in 1998 and served a seven-year sentence. They say in 2009 he was arrested in connection with an indecent assault in the Ealing area of west London but the case was dropped.

Should there be greater coordination about criminal records so that someone who would have lifetime supervision in uk should be monitored if allowed to come to the UK. Or should people with some convictions be barred even though they are EU citizens?
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    Philip WalesPhilip Wales Posts: 6,373
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    #2
    They should be barred. But it's very hard for foreign police forces to check up on people "willy nilly", they have to have some sort of reason to check that person in the first place.

    I've often wondered about serial killers moving between countries in Europe and how hard to would be to track them.
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    JakobjoeJakobjoe Posts: 8,235
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    #3
    plus if he attacked someone already when in the UK. WHY WASNT HE DEPORTED...this is really scandalous
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    What name??What name?? Posts: 26,623
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    #4
    Jakobjoe wrote: »
    plus if he attacked someone already when in the UK. WHY WASNT HE DEPORTED...this is really scandalous
    Because you have to be found guilty of something before being deported....

    However knowing his record could have been really important in focusing the search - 3 weeks ago. At the very minimum there should be better sharing of criminal record information between EU police forces. However I think it would be better if criminal checks were done at the boarder so probation services can decide the level of risk and there are rules about supervision that are equivalent for someone who was convicted of the same crime in the UK.
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    tangsmantangsman Posts: 3,661
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    #5
    Sorry I don't want any EU convicted murderer residing in the UK. FFS May sort this out
    once and for all.
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    Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    #6
    Kinda makes you wonder what you have to do to be refused immigrant status in the UK.
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    MTUK1MTUK1 Posts: 20,077
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    #7
    tangsman wrote: »
    Sorry I don't want any EU convicted murderer residing in the UK. FFS May sort this out
    once and for all.

    Until we regain our freedom from the EU there is sweet fanny Adams may can do about this.
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    JakobjoeJakobjoe Posts: 8,235
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    #8
    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Kinda makes you wonder what you have to do to be refused immigrant status in the UK.

    a good question for the ostriches at westminster.
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    gulliverfoylegulliverfoyle Posts: 6,318
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    #9
    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Kinda makes you wonder what you have to do to be refused immigrant status in the UK.

    blame the labour govt they opened the door and put no controls in place

    they wanted the eastern European poor and unwashed to gerrymander a voting block

    and rub the rights noses in multi culturism

    hopefully the jocks will leave and we can leave the EU and get control back

    were a bloody island its not hard
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    MTUK1MTUK1 Posts: 20,077
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    #10
    gulliverfoyle wrote: »
    blame the labour govt they opened the door and put no controls in place

    they wanted the eastern European poor and unwashed to gerrymander a voting block

    and rub the rights noses in multi culturism

    hopefully the jocks will leave and we can leave the EU and get control back

    were a bloody island its not hard

    Yep. We can't control our borders till we leave the EU.
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    walterwhitewalterwhite Posts: 56,945
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    #11
    Jakobjoe wrote: »
    plus if he attacked someone already when in the UK. WHY WASNT HE DEPORTED...this is really scandalous

    Are you suggesting people who are arrested should be deported without trial?
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    What name??What name?? Posts: 26,623
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    #12
    walterwhite wrote: »
    Are you suggesting people who are arrested should be deported without trial?

    But it is fairly useful if the police get the criminal records of all people who are arrested, can forward that to the home office if it is considered that it is possibly significant enough for it not to be in the public interest that they reside here. Murder would be one if those crimes that deserve a second look at that by the home office and any other violent or sex crime.
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    PedroPedro Posts: 9,911
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    #13
    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    Kinda makes you wonder what you have to do to be refused immigrant status in the UK.
    Go camping in Calais ...................
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    ShrikeShrike Posts: 16,608
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    #14
    If he only spent 7 years in jail I wonder if the murder conviction would've been the equivalent of manslaughter over here? Much like Oscar Pistorious?
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    valkayvalkay Posts: 15,726
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    #15
    The Australians don't allow anybody in with a criminal record.
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    Philip WalesPhilip Wales Posts: 6,373
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    #16
    walterwhite wrote: »
    Are you suggesting people who are arrested should be deported without trial?

    Why not? If I want to visit America, not live or work just to visit for a 2 week holiday, basically if I have ever been arrested, not even charged I have to apply for a Visa.

    We don't want foreign criminals/beggars and general pain in the asses coming to the UK, causing trouble, then demanding that they can stay because of the EU. Why waste time and money sending them to trial, if your arrested your out, end of.
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    jesayajesaya Posts: 35,597
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    #17
    There certainly needs to be better co-ordination, however without knowing what the previous conviction was for then it is hard to know whether he should have been under greater observation (I know it said murder, but the sentence seems very short and it may be manslaughter and unrelated to any sexual offence). Personally I think that if someone is a potential danger to society then they need to stay in their home country, where the authorities can best manage them. Limiting travel for certain forms of convictions seems sensible.
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    bluesdiamondbluesdiamond Posts: 11,362
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    #18
    So in 2009 not convicted?
    So no DNA Record?

    Now 5 years later involved in a disappearance.

    What has he been doing for 5 years? I have a nasty feeling about what he has been doing.
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    RobinOfLoxleyRobinOfLoxley Posts: 27,040
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    #19
    valkay wrote: »
    The Australians don't allow anybody in with a criminal record.

    In the good old days it was complusory
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    bluesdiamondbluesdiamond Posts: 11,362
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    #20
    valkay wrote: »
    The Australians don't allow anybody in with a criminal record.

    and they send home any human garbage.
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    jesayajesaya Posts: 35,597
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    #21
    valkay wrote: »
    The Australians don't allow anybody in with a criminal record.

    Not quite. A 'substantial' criminal record. People do go there with convictions that had sentences less than a year. Even then, the government may let you in if you fail the test - they look at the circumstances in each case.
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    What name??What name?? Posts: 26,623
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    #22
    The Home Office operates a computer system called the "Warnings Index" or "WI" which contains information shared by foreign countries, including European Union states, on terrorists and criminals.

    However Latvian authorities have insisted they were under no obligation to forewarn their British colleagues about Zalkalns conviction.

    "According to law, we don't have to inform about previous convictions. We didn't get a request back then whether he was convicted. Once we got a request, we answered," said one Latvian official.

    "It's impossible to warn authorities in advance because the borders between Latvia and the UK are open."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11103663/Alice-Gross-Latvian-builder-suspect-is-a-convicted-murderer.html

    I think there is clearly an issue with the process that needs to be reviewed at a senior level. He should have been flagged in coming to the UK, when arrested in 2008 and when looked at for this crime. That's 3 missed opportunities.
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    rupert_pupkinrupert_pupkin Posts: 3,975
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    #23
    valkay wrote: »
    The Australians don't allow anybody in with a criminal record.

    There wouldn't be an Australia if it wasn't for criminals. Well, it would belong to the natives, not the descendants of criminals.
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    walterwhitewalterwhite Posts: 56,945
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    #24
    Philip Wales wrote: »
    Why not? If I want to visit America, not live or work just to visit for a 2 week holiday, basically if I have ever been arrested, not even charged I have to apply for a Visa.

    We don't want foreign criminals/beggars and general pain in the asses coming to the UK, causing trouble, then demanding that they can stay because of the EU. Why waste time and money sending them to trial, if your arrested your out, end of.

    That is the conviction you are referring to. I am referring to the arrest in the UK.
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    BanglaRoadBanglaRoad Posts: 57,593
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    #25
    tangsman wrote: »
    Sorry I don't want any EU convicted murderer residing in the UK. FFS May sort this out
    once and for all.

    Terrible isn't it? Wonder what Spain feels about all the convicted murderers, bank robbers and drug dealers from the UK who are soaking up the sun on the Costas?
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    BanglaRoadBanglaRoad Posts: 57,593
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    #26
    bluesdiamond wrote: »
    and they send home any human garbage.

    Is that what happened to you?
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