"Whilst Red says he's never lied to Liz, he has spoken in riddles and metaphors throughout the series, and has only answered her questions with the bare minimum of information where he deliberately doesn't want to tell her something. Not lying, but not giving her the full picture. He then gives her clues to work things out for herself."
YES! :cool: Thank you for putting your finger on what I couldn't quite define clear enough in words to bring to this blog!
Riddles, metaphors and evasion; not really a shuffle, shuffle, side step dance, but definetly could be if Fred Astair were the dancer, but then Red is doing a good imatation. When Lizzie gets the picture and it comes from within her, center to circumference then she can claim it because it is hers, this should help her with Tom.
And I think you're spot on regarding Tom, not that my opinion matters in another's thought process, Tom is not to be trusted, and truly frightening. Strong, and able to compartmentalize his actions which makes him not just very dangerous, in a cold and calulating way, but also lethal without conscience, or real remorse in his actions! >:(
This is probably nothing more than a role to Tom that he's played numerous times and is able to detached his feelings finally as he didn't want to let down Berlin.
Here's a theory I would like to throw in the ring: Liz's real daddy is connected to the Berlin group, like high up the food chain. Fitch & Berlin are rivals in the underworld, Fitch ordered a hit on Liz's dad, Red was sent to do his dirty work, found Liz, scared clutching her bear and Red rescued her. No doubt his conscious kicked in thus went rogue after. Took her to Sam, they agreed he would raise her, he would look after them financially.
Maybe Red and her real dad were friends, his hands were tied and had to betray Liz's dad. Theres a drawing in the flashback Liz has of the fire, its of a bear, flipped upside down I could make out Liz and just about made out Ray which is really faint. The way the bear is drawn is very similar to the symbol on the box. Liz is a part of Red's elaborate plan, he needs her to draw out Tom, Berlin of course too as he is seeking answers and can't go in guns blazing. He's obviously thought this through and takes his steps very carefully. This could explain Berlin's invested curiousty about Liz & Red's connection. I could be wrong. But this is my two cents on this.
Unless Berlin set the fire because Liz's dad stepped out of line, Liz was put through the Cyprus agency under the radar. Red used his resources to find Liz, took her to Sam, he agreed to raise Liz and told Sam not to worry that he will take care of them financially.
His plan was ready beforehand, the minute he met Liz the plan was set in motion, he needs her, FBI resources for a sense of redemption and clear his name. He says to Liz when he meets her that everything about me is a lie which implies he was smeared by Fitch & subsequently the FBI.
I'll be sad if Tom's gone for good as he's become much more interesting now. Which really only leaves Liz as being a bland and stupid character. I've even grown fond of Discount Brody (as I said when I first saw him, not realising he was Mike from Homeland). The ridiculous breaks in the season have been so frustrating.
Hmmm? While highly inprobable wouldn't that prove to be interesting!? Leave it to Tom to play that kind of a subtrafuge, when you can't win clear and up front then be sure to throw them off your track by making someone else look worse than you do which is exactly what Tom is doing. At least when he isn't doing a commercial for a red souped up car helping him to be cool and have some level of cred!
Here's a theory I would like to throw in the ring: Liz's real daddy is connected to the Berlin group, like high up the food chain. Fitch & Berlin are rivals in the underworld, Fitch ordered a hit on Liz's dad, Red was sent to do his dirty work, found Liz, scared clutching her bear and Red rescued her. No doubt his conscious kicked in thus went rogue after. Took her to Sam, they agreed he would raise her, he would look after them financially.
Maybe Red and her real dad were friends, his hands were tied and had to betray Liz's dad. Theres a drawing in the flashback Liz has of the fire, its of a bear, flipped upside down I could make out Liz and just about made out Ray which is really faint. The way the bear is drawn is very similar to the symbol on the box. Liz is a part of Red's elaborate plan, he needs her to draw out Tom, Berlin of course too as he is seeking answers and can't go in guns blazing. He's obviously thought this through and takes his steps very carefully. This could explain Berlin's invested curiousty about Liz & Red's connection. I could be wrong. But this is my two cents on this.
Unless Berlin set the fire because Liz's dad stepped out of line, Liz was put through the Cyprus agency under the radar. Red used his resources to find Liz, took her to Sam, he agreed to raise Liz and told Sam not to worry that he will take care of them financially.
His plan was ready beforehand, the minute he met Liz the plan was set in motion, he needs her, FBI resources for a sense of redemption and clear his name. He says to Liz when he meets her that everything about me is a lie which implies he was smeared by Fitch & subsequently the FBI.
I like it, very plausable and it makes makes sense.
That was my first thought about the pictures! It's got to be something to back up Tom's statement about him being the good guy, and that Red is the one she should be wary of. Trying to throw Liz off track.
That episode quashed my theory that Tom had fallen in love with Liz during their marriage. It seems pity was all he felt. This means I'm still not happy about the writers showing Tom looking so sad and downtrodden when Liz was having to work late all the time, when Liz was not around to have to pretend for. It's just not consistent with the character Tom is now portraying. He would just not be bothered at all surely?
That was my first thought about the pictures! It's got to be something to back up Tom's statement about him being the good guy, and that Red is the one she should be wary of. Trying to throw Liz off track.
That episode quashed my theory that Tom had fallen in love with Liz during their marriage. It seems pity was all he felt. This means I'm still not happy about the writers showing Tom looking so sad and downtrodden when Liz was having to work late all the time, when Liz was not around to have to pretend for. It's just not consistent with the character Tom is now portraying. He would just not be bothered at all surely?
Unless Berlin was on his butt about how things were going regarding Liz, especially since he "had" to "eliminate" Jolene fearing her showing up at his house was going to blow his cover with Liz. He really did seem to enjoy the hands on dealing with her and was very quick to just shoot the guy who was about to expose him to Liz.
Then to have him doing the advertisement in that red car where he seems to be defending Tom, well for me it was just a big turn off regarding his character!
I don’t know about you guys but I was left underwhelmed by the episode. I understand Liz’s emotions were going to get the best of her as he was her husband and the betrayal is irreparable. I would like to have seen her throw a punch or two and let some steam off (lol) when he was tied up, I would have liked some sharper dialogue from Lizzie to show some sort of growth in character even a little and a little intelligence. Just when I was starting to like bada*s Lizzie!
One of the posters over on the Wall Street Journal Blog on The Blacklist recaps pulled up dialogue which was cut in the pilot about Red’s wife Ellen mourning Red which was really interesting! Wonder why they cut the dialogue? Unless they wanted to change the narrative with regards to his wife or don’t want to give the jig up just yet as he is a man shrouded in mystery.
I think Tom isn’t who he says he is, I think the story about the date was a emotionally manipulative tactic in a bid to have Liz free him, or do it himself. He wanted to give her a false sense of hope. When that didn’t work, he started taunting her after she got off the phone ‘is daddy going to come over and talk to me?’ ‘What is with you two? Some daddy/daughter thing going on?’. His personality drastically changed, like he a flipped a switch and now he was being an a*shole. Its his way of saying ‘I tried it the easy way and now your making me do it the hard way’.
Their relationship HAD to work, there was no question of I don’t want it to work as Liz is a high value target of interest along with Red to Berlin. I believe he was sent by Berlin to ‘babysit’ her because of the connection between her & Red who are both targets that need to stay alive at any cost. If anything I think Tom feels pity for her.
I think Tom was saving the photos of Red smothering Sam as insurance to drive a wedge and stir trouble between Liz & Red. He was just waiting for the opportunity to play that card. He’s very loyal to his job, he doesn’t want to let down Berlin & show he’s incompetent at his job. Whatever it is, its intended to divide and conquer Liz & Red's relationship once again.
I really liked the Pavlovich Brothers, they were an interesting bunch who weren’t utilised properly in this weeks episode and shouldn’t have been killed off. They need to switch up the formula and let some Blacklisters get away. It was hilarious when they were sat around Liz’s house, one was drinking and along with the rest were waiting for Liz.
Red is like a fairy godfather to Liz, he gives her people at his disposal, tails Tom for her, kidnaps Tom for her and basically anything she wants he tends to give it to her (well nearly).
That piece of dialogue he says to Ressler in the Anslo Garrick episode that he has had enough as the concierge of crime and wants some peace/sleep like when he was a little boy. I think The Blacklist is Red’s one last hurrah before he bows out for a quieter life. That dialogue supports the theory that he may grooming Lizzie to take over his business as he may be terminally ill like Zamani.
I was watching the panel on The Blacklist, James Spader made a point that all the Blacklisters are interconnected to the show's main narrative. The story of the Blacklisters mirror the main story revolving around the main characters (ie. Liz, Red, Tom, Berlin).
I have really struggled through this series, the only reason i have stuck with it is because of the excellent James Spader.
Liz as the main character is dreadful, but the writing hasn't helped, at the start of the series she is supposed to have just started her new job as an FBI Profiler but after a couple of episodes shes running round taking the lead on all their cases just because she is getting the info from Red i cant see how she would suddenly turn into Jack Bauer!
The rest of the supporting cast are poor, Tom did improve a lot once we found out his secrets but honestly cant wait for the series to end because in fairness the main SL which has run right through the series has been good but i think the weekly rounding up of the bad guys has been very poor.
I have really struggled through this series, the only reason i have stuck with it is because of the excellent James Spader.
Liz as the main character is dreadful, but the writing hasn't helped, at the start of the series she is supposed to have just started her new job as an FBI Profiler but after a couple of episodes shes running round taking the lead on all their cases just because she is getting the info from Red i cant see how she would suddenly turn into Jack Bauer!
The rest of the supporting cast are poor, Tom did improve a lot once we found out his secrets but honestly cant wait for the series to end because in fairness the main SL which has run right through the series has been good but i think the weekly rounding up of the bad guys has been very poor.
Liz is awful. She comes across as being a bit dumb, and all she actually does for the team is relay Red's hints.
Comments
YES! :cool: Thank you for putting your finger on what I couldn't quite define clear enough in words to bring to this blog!
Riddles, metaphors and evasion; not really a shuffle, shuffle, side step dance, but definetly could be if Fred Astair were the dancer, but then Red is doing a good imatation. When Lizzie gets the picture and it comes from within her, center to circumference then she can claim it because it is hers, this should help her
And I think you're spot on regarding Tom, not that my opinion matters in another's thought process, Tom is not to be trusted, and truly frightening.
Again Thanks, Mom:kitty:
Maybe Red and her real dad were friends, his hands were tied and had to betray Liz's dad. Theres a drawing in the flashback Liz has of the fire, its of a bear, flipped upside down I could make out Liz and just about made out Ray which is really faint. The way the bear is drawn is very similar to the symbol on the box. Liz is a part of Red's elaborate plan, he needs her to draw out Tom, Berlin of course too as he is seeking answers and can't go in guns blazing. He's obviously thought this through and takes his steps very carefully. This could explain Berlin's invested curiousty about Liz & Red's connection. I could be wrong. But this is my two cents on this.
Unless Berlin set the fire because Liz's dad stepped out of line, Liz was put through the Cyprus agency under the radar. Red used his resources to find Liz, took her to Sam, he agreed to raise Liz and told Sam not to worry that he will take care of them financially.
His plan was ready beforehand, the minute he met Liz the plan was set in motion, he needs her, FBI resources for a sense of redemption and clear his name. He says to Liz when he meets her that everything about me is a lie which implies he was smeared by Fitch & subsequently the FBI.
This programme is rivetting!
Really, really, hope Tom isn't a good guy. Disliked him from the word go. Would love to see Red butcher him.
Very curious as to what was in that box. Is Tom really good? I hope not.
I definitely agree, have never really warmed to her as the main character.
Most of the time she just has that miserable face on her.
Yup.
She's just... annoyingly stupid. Look at her latest cockups from this episode.
All she does is tell the team what Red says. That's her sole benefit to the team.
Pictures of Red suffocating her father perhaps?
Hmmm? While highly inprobable wouldn't that prove to be interesting!? Leave it to Tom to play that kind of a subtrafuge, when you can't win clear and up front then be sure to throw them off your track by making someone else look worse than you do which is exactly what Tom is doing. At least when he isn't doing a commercial for a red souped up car helping him to be cool and have some level of cred!
I like it, very plausable and it makes makes sense.
That was my first thought about the pictures! It's got to be something to back up Tom's statement about him being the good guy, and that Red is the one she should be wary of. Trying to throw Liz off track.
That episode quashed my theory that Tom had fallen in love with Liz during their marriage. It seems pity was all he felt. This means I'm still not happy about the writers showing Tom looking so sad and downtrodden when Liz was having to work late all the time, when Liz was not around to have to pretend for. It's just not consistent with the character Tom is now portraying. He would just not be bothered at all surely?
Unless Berlin was on his butt about how things were going regarding Liz, especially since he "had" to "eliminate" Jolene fearing her showing up at his house was going to blow his cover with Liz. He really did seem to enjoy the hands on dealing with her and was very quick to just shoot the guy who was about to expose him to Liz.
Then to have him doing the advertisement in that red car where he seems to be defending Tom, well for me it was just a big turn off regarding his character!
Liz not so much, and if she'd watched POI she would have known breaking his thumb was a bad idea.
Also worst fight ever with Liz and Tom and after being nearly invincible the Pavlovich brothers go down like ninepins.
I do hope all ths teasing of the audience has a decent resolution.
Yep that's US pace as well.
Yes, It gets shown on Monday in the US and we get the episode on the Friday.:)
One of the posters over on the Wall Street Journal Blog on The Blacklist recaps pulled up dialogue which was cut in the pilot about Red’s wife Ellen mourning Red which was really interesting! Wonder why they cut the dialogue? Unless they wanted to change the narrative with regards to his wife or don’t want to give the jig up just yet as he is a man shrouded in mystery.
I think Tom isn’t who he says he is, I think the story about the date was a emotionally manipulative tactic in a bid to have Liz free him, or do it himself. He wanted to give her a false sense of hope. When that didn’t work, he started taunting her after she got off the phone ‘is daddy going to come over and talk to me?’ ‘What is with you two? Some daddy/daughter thing going on?’. His personality drastically changed, like he a flipped a switch and now he was being an a*shole. Its his way of saying ‘I tried it the easy way and now your making me do it the hard way’.
Their relationship HAD to work, there was no question of I don’t want it to work as Liz is a high value target of interest along with Red to Berlin. I believe he was sent by Berlin to ‘babysit’ her because of the connection between her & Red who are both targets that need to stay alive at any cost. If anything I think Tom feels pity for her.
I think Tom was saving the photos of Red smothering Sam as insurance to drive a wedge and stir trouble between Liz & Red. He was just waiting for the opportunity to play that card. He’s very loyal to his job, he doesn’t want to let down Berlin & show he’s incompetent at his job. Whatever it is, its intended to divide and conquer Liz & Red's relationship once again.
I really liked the Pavlovich Brothers, they were an interesting bunch who weren’t utilised properly in this weeks episode and shouldn’t have been killed off. They need to switch up the formula and let some Blacklisters get away. It was hilarious when they were sat around Liz’s house, one was drinking and along with the rest were waiting for Liz.
Red is like a fairy godfather to Liz, he gives her people at his disposal, tails Tom for her, kidnaps Tom for her and basically anything she wants he tends to give it to her (well nearly).
That piece of dialogue he says to Ressler in the Anslo Garrick episode that he has had enough as the concierge of crime and wants some peace/sleep like when he was a little boy. I think The Blacklist is Red’s one last hurrah before he bows out for a quieter life. That dialogue supports the theory that he may grooming Lizzie to take over his business as he may be terminally ill like Zamani.
I was watching the panel on The Blacklist, James Spader made a point that all the Blacklisters are interconnected to the show's main narrative. The story of the Blacklisters mirror the main story revolving around the main characters (ie. Liz, Red, Tom, Berlin).
Liz as the main character is dreadful, but the writing hasn't helped, at the start of the series she is supposed to have just started her new job as an FBI Profiler but after a couple of episodes shes running round taking the lead on all their cases just because she is getting the info from Red i cant see how she would suddenly turn into Jack Bauer!
The rest of the supporting cast are poor, Tom did improve a lot once we found out his secrets but honestly cant wait for the series to end because in fairness the main SL which has run right through the series has been good but i think the weekly rounding up of the bad guys has been very poor.
Liz is awful. She comes across as being a bit dumb, and all she actually does for the team is relay Red's hints.
I don't think she has smiled for most of the series.