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'British' teenagers apparently see Islamic State scum as "pop idols"

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    bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    Can't they speak fluent English then?

    They must speak fluent English! And no requirements to be Muslim? But young...
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    John_HuxleyJohn_Huxley Posts: 2,140
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    bollywood wrote: »
    They must speak fluent English! And no requirements to be Muslim? But young...
    You'd have to finish the 'interview' process before stating what the full requirements are.
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    bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    You'd have to finish the 'interview' process before stating what the full requirements are.

    Yeah probably young and child bearing age lol.

    Like ISIS is soooo sincere and (cough cough) hyper religious.
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    John_HuxleyJohn_Huxley Posts: 2,140
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    bollywood wrote: »
    Yeah probably young and child bearing age lol.

    Like ISIS is soooo sincere and (cough cough) hyper religious.
    They are, per their long instructions for women.

    http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/publications/free/women-of-the-islamic-state3.pdf

    as referenced here:

    In the recruitment manifesto, Arab women are encouraged to come to Syria and Iraq where they can live the “sedentary” lifestyle led by responsibilities in the home, which is their “divinely appointed right” in line with Shariah “and the methodology of life that was ordained by God”.

    More worrying is the advice on what age children can be married to Isis fighters. “It is considered legitimate,” the document says, “for a girl to be married at the age of nine.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10025143.html


    so they took inspiration from Muhammad marrying 9 year old Aisha.
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    Virgil TracyVirgil Tracy Posts: 26,806
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    It being Indonesia doesn't somehow make it not a recruitment video.

    So they do mention their religion, Jihad, Muhammad and Allah in their recruitment video, so your claim is false.

    Similar other recruitment video's of briton's mention jihad and the quran.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/20/jihadi-recruitment-video-islamist-terror-group-isis-features-britons

    one of the recruiters says :

    "Are you willing to sacrifice the fat job you have got, the big car you have got, the family you have? Are you willing to sacrifice this for the sake of Allah? "

    but Bolly said the recruiters were luring people with BMWs and 5star living , but this guy is offering jihad and Allah and asks them to forsake their cars and jobs .

    .
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    Virgil TracyVirgil Tracy Posts: 26,806
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    bollywood wrote: »
    Yeah probably young and child bearing age lol.

    Like ISIS is soooo sincere and (cough cough) hyper religious.

    Muhammed started on them a bit younger , I just hope they won't be emulating him too closely
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    The MartianThe Martian Posts: 1,610
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    Muhammed started on them a bit younger , I just hope they won't be emulating him too closely

    They already have.

    Nine-year-old Yazidi sex slave raped by 10 Isis militants is now pregnant – and could die delivering the baby
    A nine-year-old girl who was taken as a sex slave by Isis was raped by 10 militants and is now pregnant, it has been reported.

    According to an aid worker, the girl is a member of the Yazidi minority religious group, which faces persecution across Isis-held territory.

    She has been flown out of Iraq by a Kurdish aid agency, the Toronto Star reported, and is now being treated by a medical charity in Germany.

    But Yousif Daoud, a Canada-based aid worker who has just returned from the region, told the Star the girl was “mentally and physically traumatised” after the abuse she had suffered, and there are fears she may yet not survive her ordeal.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/nineyearold-yazidi-sex-slave-raped-by-10-isis-militants-is-now-pregnant--and-could-die-delivering-the-baby-10170743.html

    >:(
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    bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    Before one gets carried away with anti- Islamic furor: very young marriages were common in the Bible, as well.

    Yet a normal person, Christian or Jew, does not, hopefully, emulate the OT, nor Samuel's directive to kill men women and children.

    Again, ISIS are delusional or liars. I choose liars.

    No way ISIS aren't aware of what they are doing. If they are high tech they can read like anyone else the damage caused by these behaviors.
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    John_HuxleyJohn_Huxley Posts: 2,140
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    Narrated Hisham's father:

    Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
    -http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/058-sbt.php#005.058.236


    Looks like their directly emulating muhammad.
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    bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    No they are being cruel, purposefully and angrily.

    They are about as religious as Son of Sam, who ironically was a church warden.

    When ISIS break up, I predict you will hear the truth about them from those who fled or survived, and it will be that they were delusional and told big porkies to get people there, and force to keep them there.

    Seriously, they are so concerned about pure Muslims that they will accept non Muslims to pollute the flock. Sounds political to me.
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    jediknight2k1jediknight2k1 Posts: 6,892
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    bollywood wrote: »
    Before one gets carried away with anti- Islamic furor: very young marriages were common in the Bible, as well.

    Yet a normal person, Christian or Jew, does not, hopefully, emulate the OT, nor Samuel's directive to kill men women and children.

    Again, ISIS are delusional or liars. I choose liars.

    No way ISIS aren't aware of what they are doing. If they are high tech they can read like anyone else the damage caused by these behaviors.

    Child marriage didn't become the norm of Western culture, I wonder why.

    More apologetics, this time for child marriage, rape and slavery.

    IS are showing the word just have dangerous Islam.

    Those in denial are delusional.
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    John_HuxleyJohn_Huxley Posts: 2,140
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    bollywood wrote: »
    No they are being cruel, purposefully and angrily.

    They are about as religious as Son of Sam, who ironically was a church warden.

    When ISIS break up, I predict you will hear the truth about them from those who fled or survived, and it will be that they were delusional and told big porkies to get people there, and force to keep them there.

    Seriously, they are so concerned about pure Muslims that they will accept non Muslims to pollute the flock. Sounds political to me.
    We already have accounts from those who have fled ISIS, both tortured captives and former member's.

    And all attest that they follow they are deeply religious and their religion is Islam.

    In the recruitment manifesto, Arab women are encouraged to come to Syria and Iraq where they can live the “sedentary” lifestyle led by responsibilities in the home, which is their “divinely appointed right” in line with Shariah “and the methodology of life that was ordained by God”.

    More worrying is the advice on what age children can be married to Isis fighters. “It is considered legitimate,” the document says, “for a girl to be married at the age of nine.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10025143.html


    Furthermore the 120 scholars you gave us, and other's, support killing apostates.

    So you have only ever presented the Islamic religion as the real source of the various horrible acts many do in the name of that religion.
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    bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    Child marriage didn't become the norm of Western culture, I wonder why.

    More apologetics, this time for child marriage, rape and slavery.

    IS are showing the word just have dangerous Islam.

    Those in denial are delusional.

    It might not have become the norm but it did exist and it existed in Biblical culture, not just Islamic culture.

    It still exists related to poverty and lack of education, in India, South America and non-Muslim groups.

    To generalize and say this is purely an Islamic problem, can stir up emotions, especially with little red emoticons, but isn't so logical when you examine it.

    As the Muslim woman from Harvard has, and wrote a book on the subject.
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    John_HuxleyJohn_Huxley Posts: 2,140
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    bollywood wrote: »
    It might not have become the norm but it did exist and it existed in Biblical culture, not just Islamic culture.
    Pedophilia was not nor has ever been the norm in any society, though Islam deem's such acts acceptable.

    Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
    -http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/058-sbt.php#005.058.236
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    bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    Pedophilia was not nor has ever been the norm in any society, though Islam deem's such acts acceptable.

    And so it occurs in other cultures as well. If you suggest it is only a problem of Islamic cultures ( not sure you are suggesting that?) then you are giving out misinformation.

    Child marriage positively correlates with poverty and lack of education. It is more culturally linked , than religion linked. This was documented on another thread.
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    bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    We already have accounts from those who have fled ISIS, both tortured captives and former member's.

    And all attest that they follow they are deeply religious and their religion is Islam.

    In the recruitment manifesto, Arab women are encouraged to come to Syria and Iraq where they can live the “sedentary” lifestyle led by responsibilities in the home, which is their “divinely appointed right” in line with Shariah “and the methodology of life that was ordained by God”.

    More worrying is the advice on what age children can be married to Isis fighters. “It is considered legitimate,” the document says, “for a girl to be married at the age of nine.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10025143.html


    Furthermore the 120 scholars you gave us, and other's, support killing apostates.

    So you have only ever presented the Islamic religion as the real source of the various horrible acts many do in the name of that religion.

    We had an account from a French hostage who said he never saw a Qu'ran or heard religion, only politics. Enforcing rules doesn't make them deeply religious. How much are you praying if you are raping, killing, destroying villages and art, and burying your dead? Not much time left for religion, is there. But you can keep trying to make ISIS look deeply religious, and maybe you will convince someone.

    ISIS aren't even a medieval group. They are extremely modern and co-opted western marketing and war fare techniques. I've heard enough of the 7th Century stuff to know it is b.s. They didn't have plastic IDs in the 7th Century. Obviously ISIS is selective in following Mohammed, especially when it comes to hadith of respect, mercy, peace and reason over violence.
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    John_HuxleyJohn_Huxley Posts: 2,140
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    bollywood wrote: »
    And so it occurs in other cultures as well. If you suggest it is only a problem of Islamic cultures ( not sure you are suggesting that?) then you are giving out misinformation.
    Horrible acts occurring in other culture's is of no relevance, you certainly cannot tell the child they should have been raped because other children are raped in other cultures'.
    (not sure you are suggesting that?)
    bollywood wrote: »
    Child marriage positively correlated with poverty and lack of education. It is more culturally linked , than religion linked. This was documented on another thread.
    There can be many reason's for child marriages in many situations, one reason does not mean the other does not happen.

    In the same way there are many reasons for murder, one instance does not make the other 'not happen'.

    Child marriage and pedophilia is a religious element in Islam, and many Muslim's emulate said practices because of this.

    Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
    -http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/058-sbt.php#005.058.236

    For that reason alone it deserves notice and criticism.
    Bollywood wrote:
    We had an account from a French hostage who said he never saw a Qu'ran or heard religion, only politics. Enforcing rules doesn't make them deeply religious. How much are you praying if you are raping, killing, destroying villages and art, and burying your dead? Not much time left for religion, is there. But you can keep trying to make ISIS look deeply religious, and maybe you will convince someone.
    It's a good thing in this day and age of reason we understand that our judgement's come from evaluating all the evidence and your 'one hostage' doesn't supersede all other evidence, such as video evidence and written evidence and other witness testimonies

    In the recruitment manifesto, Arab women are encouraged to come to Syria and Iraq where they can live the “sedentary” lifestyle led by responsibilities in the home, which is their “divinely appointed right” in line with Shariah “and the methodology of life that was ordained by God”.

    More worrying is the advice on what age children can be married to Isis fighters. “It is considered legitimate,” the document says, “for a girl to be married at the age of nine.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/life-as-a-woman-under-isis-document-reveals-for-the-first-time-what-group-really-expects-from-female-recruits-living-in-syria-and-iraq-10025143.htmll


    Your attempts to paint ISIS as somehow not inspired by their religion (and you know their namesake itself states this) is hilarious and doesn't convince anyone of the credibility of your words, of which you can easily see.
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    jediknight2k1jediknight2k1 Posts: 6,892
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    bollywood wrote: »
    It might not have become the norm but it did exist and it existed in Biblical culture, not just Islamic culture.

    It still exists related to poverty and lack of education, in India, South America and non-Muslim groups.

    To generalize and say this is purely an Islamic problem, can stir up emotions, especially with little red emoticons, but isn't so logical when you examine it.

    As the Muslim woman from Harvard has, and wrote a book on the subject.

    Stop apologizing for the rape of Yazidi girls.

    http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/isis-points-sharia-law-justify-slavery-women

    In the latest edition of Dabiq, the Islamic State’s slick, English magazine, the group offers a theological justification for capturing "infidel" women to be used as sex slaves. The brutal group is holding thousands of Yazidi women and girls and subjecting them to horrific violent, sexual abuse.
    The magazine goes on to explain what happened when Islamic State fighters captured the Sinjar region of Iraq, which was inhabited by the ancient population of the Yazidis:

    “After capture, the Yazidi women and children were then divided according to the Shari’ah amongst the fighters of the Islamic State who participated in the Sinjar operations, after one fifth of the slaves were transferred to the Islamic State’s authority to be divided as khums [the obligatory tithe of one-fifth of all war spoils that jihadi fighters must pay to the caliph].”

    The article proudly announces the revival of the sharia institution of slavery of infidels, saying, “This large-scale enslavement of mushrik families is probably the first since the abandonment of this Sharia’ah law. The only other known case – albeit much smaller – is that of the enslavement of Christian women and children in the Philippines and Nigeria by the mujahidin [jihadis] there.

    They justify slavery through Sharia.

    That is a problem with Islamic theology.

    I choose to criticise the Qur'an and Islamic scripture which advocates it, while you choose to apologize for it.

    Islam is the problem.
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    bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    Horrible acts occurring in other culture's is of no relevance, you certainly cannot tell the child they should have been raped because other children are raped in other cultures'.
    (not sure you are suggesting that?)


    There can be many reason's for child marriages in many situations, one reason does not mean the other does not happen.

    In the same way there are many reasons for murder, one instance does not make the other 'not happen'.

    Child marriage and pedophilia is a religious element in Islam, and many Muslim's emulate said practices because of this.

    Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
    -http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/058-sbt.php#005.058.236

    For that reason alone it deserves notice and criticism.


    It's a good thing in this day and age of reason we understand that our judgement's come from evaluating all the evidence and your 'one hostage' doesn't supersede all other evidence, such as video evidence and written evidence and other witness testimonies

    In the recruitment manifesto, Arab women are encouraged to come to Syria and Iraq where they can live the “sedentary” lifestyle led by responsibilities in the home, which is their “divinely appointed right” in line with Shariah “and the methodology of life that was ordained by God”.

    More worrying is the advice on what age children can be married to Isis fighters. “It is considered legitimate,” the document says, “for a girl to be married at the age of nine.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/life-as-a-woman-under-isis-document-reveals-for-the-first-time-what-group-really-expects-from-female-recruits-living-in-syria-and-iraq-10025143.htmll


    Your attempts to paint ISIS as somehow not inspired by their religion (and you know their namesake itself states this) is hilarious and doesn't convince anyone of the credibility of your words, of which you can easily see.

    Nah you are trying to take some moral high ground that is antithetical to your position, as long as you are going to try to apologize for ISIS as being reflective of religion.

    That is moral low ground, what ISIS does.

    Of course it doesn't make it right for two or three countires to have child brides, but you are still spreading misinformation if you make it appear that child brides are linked to Islam alone, rather than to education and culture. You need to read more on this subject. Empirical evidence is that in educated and technically advanced cultures, Muslims marry differently.

    I recommend the book by the Harvard Muslim women, if you are interested.
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    John_HuxleyJohn_Huxley Posts: 2,140
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    bollywood wrote: »
    Nah you are trying to take some moral high ground that is antithetical to your position, as long as you are going to try to apologize for ISIS as being reflective of religion.

    That is moral low ground, what ISIS does.

    Of course it doesn't make it right for two or three countires to have child brides, but you are still spreading misinformation if you make it appear that child brides are not linked to Islam alone, rather than to education and culture. You need to read more on this subject.

    I recommend the book by the Harvard Zmuslim women, if you are interested.
    Your attempt's to portray anyone as saying anything is a unique problem of Islam seen nowhere else is laughable, as no one has made that argument least of all me.

    But as i explained to you, warfare, slavery and pedophilia being encouraged and practiced by many Muslims because of their religion is worthy of serious criticism and that it happens elsewhere does not diminish that nor is it relevant.

    Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
    -http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/058-sbt.php#005.058.236


    Your apologetic's is so pitiable in that you have to attempt to diminish the horror of warfare, slavery and pedophilia as it is encouraged and practiced under Islam.

    To put it simply, where i care about the innocent people suffering warfare, slavery and other horrible atrocities, you only care about the reputation of the Islamic religion.

    Therefore you seek to diminish the horror of these acts to defend the religion, which is equivalent to defending evil actions.
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    bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    Your attempt's to portray anyone as saying anything is a unique problem of Islam seen nowhere else is laughable, as no one has made that argument least of all me.

    But as i explained to you, warfare, slavery and pedophilia being encouraged and practiced by many Muslims because of their religion is worthy of serious criticism and that it happens elsewhere does not diminish that nor is it relevant.

    Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
    -http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/058-sbt.php#005.058.236


    Your apologetic's is so pitiable in that you have to attempt to diminish the horror of warfare, slavery and pedophilia as it is encouraged and practiced under Islam.

    To put it simply, where i care about the innocent people suffering warfare, slavery and other horrible atrocities, you only care about the reputation of the Islamic religion.

    Therefore you seek to diminish the horror of these acts to defend the religion, which is equivalent to defending evil actions.

    Your attempt to portray me as rejecting any criticism of Islam is both erroneous and misquoting as I objected to punishment for apostasy, to child brides and other practices.

    Don't let me stop you from trying to paint Muslims all with the same brush though. It keeps the thread active, for one. And the more the thread is active, the more chance some of your peers get to see the flip side of anti islamic thinking. :)
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    John_HuxleyJohn_Huxley Posts: 2,140
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    bollywood wrote: »
    Your attempt to portray me as rejecting any criticism of Islam is both erroneous and misquoting as I objected to punishment for apostasy, to child brides and other oractices.
    So you admit Islam encourages killing apostastes.

    Please state this explicitly in your next post.
    bollywood wrote: »
    Don't let me stop you from trying to paint Muslims all with the same brush though. It keeps the thread active, for one. And the more the thread is active, the more chance some of your peers get to see the flip side of anti islamic thinking. :)
    You can attempt to try and strawman people's criticism of Islam as some sort of prejudicial attack on Muslims, but you have had zero success.

    But you have tried to downplay slavery, child marriage and pedophilia by explicitly stating 'but the bible has it too'.

    Your behaviour is of the far more contemptible sort.
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    jediknight2k1jediknight2k1 Posts: 6,892
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    bollywood wrote: »
    Your attempt to portray me as rejecting any criticism of Islam is both erroneous and misquoting as I objected to punishment for apostasy, to child brides and other oractices.

    Don't let me stop you from trying to paint Muslims all with the same brush though. It keeps the thread active, for one. And the more the thread is active, the more chance some of your peers get to see the flip side of anti islamic thinking. :)

    Objection is not criticism.

    It's been shown in various threads you have more concern about Islam's PR then the victims of terrorism.

    Criticising Islamic scripture is not tarring people with the brush, that's a fallacy as there Muslims who find parts of Islam problematic.

    Blaming Charlie Hebdo killing on the staff is the best example as the 'provoked the attack'. You have not once in this been critical of Islam.
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    bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    Objection is not criticism.

    It's been shown in various threads you have more concern about Islam's PR then the victims of terrorism.

    Criticising Islamic scripture is not tarring people with the brush, that's a fallacy as there Muslims who find parts of Islam problematic.

    Blaming Charlie Hebdo killing on the staff is the best example as the 'provoked the attack'. You have not once in this been critical of Islam.

    If I say I object that is indeed criticism. Try to refrain from redefining words to excuse misquoting and mischaracterizing people. You do the same to other posters when you try to tar them with the same brush, as you do to Muslims.

    If you quote scripture with no understanding, here or in other religious threads, it only shows your lack of understanding of the religion. You would imagine that a thoughtful person would approach a religion they don't know, a little more humbly. But maybe that is too high of an expectation.

    The more rabid anti-Islamic prose there is, possibly the better, because it creates a backlash of people who wonder if the anti-islamics could be barking up the wrong tree. Now we are seeing more articles about the non-Islamicness of ISIS, and more people who are speaking out against haters, that is ultimately, a good thing.
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    John_HuxleyJohn_Huxley Posts: 2,140
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    bollywood wrote: »
    If I say I object that is indeed criticism. Try to refrain from redefining words to excuse misquoting and mischaracterizing people. You do the same to other posters when you try to tar them with the same brush, as you do to Muslims.
    No it isn't, only if you object to Islam encouraging it is that a criticism of Islam.

    Objecting to an act itself is not a criticism of Islam until you accept Islam mandates it.

    Which you repeatedly make excuses for.
    bollywood wrote: »
    If you quote scripture with no understanding, here or in other religious threads, it only shows your lack of understanding of the religion. You would imagine that a thoughtful person would approach a religion they don't know, a little more humbly. But maybe that is too high of an expectation.
    And yet you reject the interpretation of your 120 islamic scholar's that support the punishments of killing apostates, even when you went so far as to lecture people to rely only on the scholars and what they signed:

    "Hudud punishments are fixed in the Qur’an and Hadith and are unquestionably obligatory in Islamic Law"

    Narrated Ikrima:
    Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "
    -http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/052-sbt.php#004.052.260


    So please don't try and pretend you 'understand' scripture or are 'humble' in any fashion.

    Those critical of Islam show far more respect then you, as they don't seek to lie or change the religion, they take it as it is honestly.
    bollywood wrote: »
    The more rabid anti-Islamic prose there is, possibly the better, because it creates a backlash of people who wonder if the anti-islamics could be barking up the wrong tree. Now we are seeing more articles about the non-Islamicness of ISIS, and more people who are speaking out against haters, that is ultimately, a good thing.
    Actually more people are speaking out against Islam.

    As you well know.
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