As I say, all this is so de-humanising. Not nice, and we should rebel against all forms of racial pigeonholing.
Wouldn't that be nice ? I don't think it'll happen any time soon though.
Back to the OP. Take no notice what people say to you. I've been told that I'm ""not black enough" for a variety of reasons (nothing to do with how I identify myself) - some of the more ridiculous examples have been "you don't speak with a black accent", "you don't eat meat?!:eek: ". Then there's the whole music thing.
Really, I'm not interested in people who come out with crap like that and try to make people fit into certain stereotypes in order for their own comfort zones not to be disturbed.
You know what annoys me? We have been looking into adoption and, as a white couple, would be extremely unlikely to be allowed to adopt a mixed race child. However, if we were a balck couple, it would be considered ok. So why is it acceptable to disregard one side of a childs ethnic make up in fanour of the other?
My BIL is Jamaican so my neices are mixed race and some of the comments made to my sister are just shocking. Now she is the type to come back with as good as she gets but she has had many comments from her ohs extended family about bringing up the kids as 'too white' due to the fact they live in a middle class, fairly suburban area. I mean FGS!!!! :rolleyes:
I have always abhored this 'over-zealous PC social worker' approach which insists that a black child can't have white adoptive parents. A little girl some years back died at the hands of her stepfather, due to being taken away from her white foster parents and given back to her " rightful":rolleyes: cultural background.
Hogwash.
If that is so, why not cart the child back to Africa and put a grass skirt on it, if "cultural backgound" is sooo important.
Potted ideologies.... not thought through. Don't you just love them?
You know what annoys me? We have been looking into adoption and, as a white couple, would be extremely unlikely to be allowed to adopt a mixed race child. However, if we were a balck couple, it would be considered ok. So why is it acceptable to disregard one side of a childs ethnic make up in fanour of the other?
Unbelievable isn't it, that despite Nelson Mandela, despite the strong anti apartheid movement, despite the fall of the vile South African regime in 1990, apartheid is still alive and well in so called left wing local authorities.
When you think about it, by further logical extension, they would ban inter racial marriages and split up families created as a result.
Just as a matter of interest, I wonder just what comment Nelson Mandela would offer, if told about this racist crap operating in our own country.
As for your point about one ethnic side being disregarded, I don't know. Personally, I don't see what difference it makes anyway. You might as well start discriminating due to eye and hair colour as well.
My BIL is Jamaican so my neices are mixed race and some of the comments made to my sister are just shocking. Now she is the type to come back with as good as she gets but she has had many comments from her ohs extended family about bringing up the kids as 'too white' due to the fact they live in a middle class, fairly suburban area. I mean FGS!!!! :rolleyes:
Is it enough for black people just to be ruddy black, without the attachments? Sorry for the rant, but I am a little drunk and a lot angry.
I've had that all my life being of Caribbean origin but brought up by white foster parents. My natural family think of me as the family coconut and white friends used to delight in calling me 'white.'
It used to be more of an issue pre 1990. But now with so many mixed race kids of various shades the debate about 'who's black?' has become too hard for most people to go on about. Now I'm a lot older, I just don't worry about it any more.
I think you've already identified the best response to anyone questioning your "blackness". I've highlighted it.
I am white. My paternal grandfather was from Scotland, although I don't know exactly where, and my maternal side have lived in and around South Yorkshire for generations, although their name indicates they were originally from France. But, because I'm white, nobody even thinks about my ancestry, because I'm part of the norm. Mrs Sundae is black, born in England, her parents having come here from Jamaica. As a result, she is pigeonholed, because people automatically draw conclusions based on her looks. Our daughter looks pretty typical of ther mixed race background. Lighter skin than her mum, and with springy, curly hair - much looser curls than her mum.
Our daughter is only 2 1/2, but already some people are pigeonholing her based on 1/2 of her ancestry, and ignoring the other half. As far as I'm concerned, she is British. When she is older, I'm sure she will define herself as she wishes. Then, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks. She is what she is.
She's the most beautiful little girl in your world and that's all that matters.
[/B]
Hear,Hear! Too much interfering officialdom in today's world.
I'm embarrassed to be english. To be an English guy is to like football and go out and get pissed at the weekend. please don't tell me I am generalising. I work with 8 other guys and all they talk about is football and all they do is go out at the weekend and get pissed. Do the maths.
I'm embarrassed to be english. To be an English guy is to like football and go out and get pissed at the weekend. please don't tell me I am generalising. I work with 8 other guys and all they talk about is football and all they do is go out at the weekend and get pissed. Do the maths.
I'm proud to be English.
And I hate football, and I do not get pissed at the weekend.
It's good to have a pride in your heritage. When you start to use it as an excuse to demean, insult and attempt to control how other people see theirs, you're heading into Mein Kampf territory, though.
Some mixed race children are rejected by members of both their parents' communities and I think that's very sad.
In the Big Brother situation Brian is being labelled as not Black enough because he doesn't fit the stereotype of a black youth ie gangsta, bit of a hoodlum and all round scary guy!
People are saying he is fake because he has an Essex accent, likes girls and cider. The fact that he was adopted by a white family, has lived in this country for years and was educated here and fits into this society is, in those people's eyes, completely wrong and he is betraying his Nigerian roots.
As I've already said on the BB forum, my family practically all started in Ireland, so should I go round swinging a shamrock around and singing Alive, Alive, oh, or Danny Boy!
I am what I am, regardless of where my ancestors were born. It's interesting to know about their lives but it doesn't change the person that I am. Or the person that Brian is. He should be judged on his own merits, not on where his parents, or grandparents came from.
In the Big Brother situation Brian is being labelled as not Black enough because he doesn't fit the stereotype of a black youth ie gangsta, bit of a hoodlum and all round scary guy!
People are saying he is fake because he has an Essex accent, likes girls and cider. The fact that he was adopted by a white family, has lived in this country for years and was educated here and fits into this society is, in those people's eyes, completely wrong and he is betraying his Nigerian roots.
As I've already said on the BB forum, my family practically all started in Ireland, so should I go round swinging a shamrock around and singing Alive, Alive, oh, or Danny Boy!
I am what I am, regardless of where my ancestors were born. It's interesting to know about their lives but it doesn't change the person that I am. Or the person that Brian is. He should be judged on his own merits, not on where his parents, or grandparents came from.
In other words he is being racially stereotyped, which is dreadful.
My sympathies for the OP. Ignore idiots. If you start arguing with an idiot make sure he is not doing likewise. Besides most of sc white people are actually pink. The Asians from Korea and Japan are far whiter than people who are usually referred as whites.
Well I disagree by and large. I don't think any black person can just be black. It actually is not so much how you see yourself but how society at large will view you. If you have a dual heritage (african / european) - on sight you will be identified as black, however, on further investigation you will be identified as mixed race. That really is how it is.
For example, if a black person of direct african descent or caribbean descent happens to have been born in say, Korea or Uzbekhistan, what does that make them?? It sure as hell doesnt make them Korean or Uzbekhistani - they will remain african or african caribbean. Your heritage always roots you to your people. It is inescapable.
So if a black person want to just call themselves 'black' - be prepared for the next question to be - where are your parents from? Where one is born takes secondary relevance imho.
I think I've heard on more than one occasion Brian has mentioned that he feels lost and not sure who he is and feels a 'lesser person' than say ziggy and liam.
When a person does not know or identify with where he comes from...how can he know where he's going??
Nigerians are very big on educating their children. Even that has been bypassed on Brian.
I had my bi-racial half brother tell me I'm not black enough which I found pretty funny. Both my parents are from Africa.
I've had friends tell me I don't act black.
I've had strangers tell me I'm not like any other black girl they've met.
To clarify, I'm not a self lothing black person *lol* I'm proud of my origins. I've just been brought up to be myself. I'm comortable with who I am. I hate people coming up to me asking me where I'm from (because I couldn't POSSIBLE live in the UK :rolleyes: ), how long have I lived here, have I moved to the UK to study.
I've lived in Scotland all my life from the day I was born... I'll go as far to say from conception. I'm probably more Scottish than the majority of people in Edinburgh.
And another thing (I'm on a roll here!) when I mention I have a new fella in my life, or I have my eye on so and so.... why is it necessary to ask if he's black? Why ask if I've "been with a black man"?
I laugh about it most times... but sometiimes it's just plain stupid.
Well I disagree by and large. I don't think any black person can just be black. It actually is not so much how you see yourself but how society at large will view you. If you have a dual heritage (african / european) - on sight you will be identified as black, however, on further investigation you will be identified as mixed race. That really is how it is.
For example, if a black person of direct african descent or caribbean descent happens to have been born in say, Korea or Uzbekhistan, what does that make them?? It sure as hell doesnt make them Korean or Uzbekhistani - they will remain african or african caribbean. Your heritage always roots you to your people. It is inescapable.
So if a black person want to just call themselves 'black' - be prepared for the next question to be - where are your parents from? Where one is born takes secondary relevance imho.
In my case, my parents were born in Chicago, their parents were born in Mississipi and Kentucky, my great-grandparents and their parents also born in Deep South, and their parents before them, with the exception of my white ancestors that were born in England and Ireland.
Can you see where I am coming from? Do you see how far back I have to go back to find my African ancestors?
People have asked me "no, but where is your family REALLY from." The effin USA!
It pisses me off because my family is more American than the majority of white Americans that I know.
In my case, my parents were born in Chicago, their parents were born in Mississipi and Kentucky, my great-grandparents and their parents also born in Deep South, and their parents before them, with the exception of my white ancestors that were born in England and Ireland.
Can you see where I am coming from? Do you see how far back I have to go back to find my African ancestors?
People have asked me "no, but where is your family REALLY from." The effin USA!
It pisses me off because my family is more American than the majority of white Americans that I know.
As another poster mentioned 'where are you from' over here means different things depending on who you're talking to.
If it's another immigrant then it usually means where did your family come from before they came here.
As probably 99% of the US population are immigrants I'm not surprised you get the same question there.
Do white Americans or Australians ask each other the same question?
And another thing (I'm on a roll here!) when I mention I have a new fella in my life, or I have my eye on so and so.... why is it necessary to ask if he's black? Why ask if I've "been with a black man"?
I laugh about it most times... but sometimes it's just plain stupid.
Who's asking if the guys Black?
Who's asking if you've been with a Black guy?
I presume Black people are a bit thin on the ground in Scotland anyway.
I can't think of any Black people who'd put it on their list of chosen destinations.
Well I disagree by and large. I don't think any black person can just be black. It actually is not so much how you see yourself but how society at large will view you. If you have a dual heritage (african / european) - on sight you will be identified as black, however, on further investigation you will be identified as mixed race. That really is how it is.
For example, if a black person of direct african descent or caribbean descent happens to have been born in say, Korea or Uzbekhistan, what does that make them?? It sure as hell doesnt make them Korean or Uzbekhistani - they will remain african or african caribbean. Your heritage always roots you to your people. It is inescapable.
Seconded on the first paragraph, just the way things are.
If you're mixed race, from what I've seen if one of your parents is African of from the Caribbean you'll be accepted by that community, don't expect that from the white community.
Not sure how heritage roots you, not one of those things that bothers me, then again if I were Black and grew up in a white family with no of few black friends around me, I'd probably say something a bit different.
Comments
Wouldn't that be nice ? I don't think it'll happen any time soon though.
Back to the OP. Take no notice what people say to you. I've been told that I'm ""not black enough" for a variety of reasons (nothing to do with how I identify myself) - some of the more ridiculous examples have been "you don't speak with a black accent", "you don't eat meat?!:eek: ". Then there's the whole music thing.
Really, I'm not interested in people who come out with crap like that and try to make people fit into certain stereotypes in order for their own comfort zones not to be disturbed.
I have always abhored this 'over-zealous PC social worker' approach which insists that a black child can't have white adoptive parents. A little girl some years back died at the hands of her stepfather, due to being taken away from her white foster parents and given back to her " rightful":rolleyes: cultural background.
Hogwash.
If that is so, why not cart the child back to Africa and put a grass skirt on it, if "cultural backgound" is sooo important.
Potted ideologies.... not thought through. Don't you just love them?
Unbelievable isn't it, that despite Nelson Mandela, despite the strong anti apartheid movement, despite the fall of the vile South African regime in 1990, apartheid is still alive and well in so called left wing local authorities.
When you think about it, by further logical extension, they would ban inter racial marriages and split up families created as a result.
Just as a matter of interest, I wonder just what comment Nelson Mandela would offer, if told about this racist crap operating in our own country.
As for your point about one ethnic side being disregarded, I don't know. Personally, I don't see what difference it makes anyway. You might as well start discriminating due to eye and hair colour as well.
More unthinking pigeonholing, sadly.
I regard myself as English but I'm told that in ethnic surveys I must call myself British. Would they say the same about the Welsh and the Scots?
I was born in England therefore I am English.
You are what you want to be; no one can tell you otherwise.
Possibly ~ click here
It used to be more of an issue pre 1990. But now with so many mixed race kids of various shades the debate about 'who's black?' has become too hard for most people to go on about. Now I'm a lot older, I just don't worry about it any more.
She's the most beautiful little girl in your world and that's all that matters.
(still thinking about a response to the rest of your post...more later hopefully)
Where in the US are you from? I'm in Texas.
Hear,Hear! Too much interfering officialdom in today's world.
I'm embarrassed to be english. To be an English guy is to like football and go out and get pissed at the weekend. please don't tell me I am generalising. I work with 8 other guys and all they talk about is football and all they do is go out at the weekend and get pissed. Do the maths.
I'm proud to be English.
And I hate football, and I do not get pissed at the weekend.
Well, not very often.
It's good to have a pride in your heritage. When you start to use it as an excuse to demean, insult and attempt to control how other people see theirs, you're heading into Mein Kampf territory, though.
Some mixed race children are rejected by members of both their parents' communities and I think that's very sad.
Hi Lips. I am from Illinois. Oh, and I've never met a Texan I didn't like.
Hey AutumnGal, I was teased about my choice in cigarettes by some black people! Just because I smoke non-menthols!
People are saying he is fake because he has an Essex accent, likes girls and cider. The fact that he was adopted by a white family, has lived in this country for years and was educated here and fits into this society is, in those people's eyes, completely wrong and he is betraying his Nigerian roots.
As I've already said on the BB forum, my family practically all started in Ireland, so should I go round swinging a shamrock around and singing Alive, Alive, oh, or Danny Boy!
I am what I am, regardless of where my ancestors were born. It's interesting to know about their lives but it doesn't change the person that I am. Or the person that Brian is. He should be judged on his own merits, not on where his parents, or grandparents came from.
In other words he is being racially stereotyped, which is dreadful.
Exactly.
For example, if a black person of direct african descent or caribbean descent happens to have been born in say, Korea or Uzbekhistan, what does that make them?? It sure as hell doesnt make them Korean or Uzbekhistani - they will remain african or african caribbean. Your heritage always roots you to your people. It is inescapable.
So if a black person want to just call themselves 'black' - be prepared for the next question to be - where are your parents from? Where one is born takes secondary relevance imho.
When a person does not know or identify with where he comes from...how can he know where he's going??
Nigerians are very big on educating their children. Even that has been bypassed on Brian.
I've had friends tell me I don't act black.
I've had strangers tell me I'm not like any other black girl they've met.
To clarify, I'm not a self lothing black person *lol* I'm proud of my origins. I've just been brought up to be myself. I'm comortable with who I am. I hate people coming up to me asking me where I'm from (because I couldn't POSSIBLE live in the UK :rolleyes: ), how long have I lived here, have I moved to the UK to study.
I've lived in Scotland all my life from the day I was born... I'll go as far to say from conception. I'm probably more Scottish than the majority of people in Edinburgh.
I laugh about it most times... but sometiimes it's just plain stupid.
In my case, my parents were born in Chicago, their parents were born in Mississipi and Kentucky, my great-grandparents and their parents also born in Deep South, and their parents before them, with the exception of my white ancestors that were born in England and Ireland.
Can you see where I am coming from? Do you see how far back I have to go back to find my African ancestors?
People have asked me "no, but where is your family REALLY from." The effin USA!
It pisses me off because my family is more American than the majority of white Americans that I know.
As another poster mentioned 'where are you from' over here means different things depending on who you're talking to.
If it's another immigrant then it usually means where did your family come from before they came here.
As probably 99% of the US population are immigrants I'm not surprised you get the same question there.
Do white Americans or Australians ask each other the same question?
Who's asking if the guys Black?
Who's asking if you've been with a Black guy?
I presume Black people are a bit thin on the ground in Scotland anyway.
I can't think of any Black people who'd put it on their list of chosen destinations.
Seconded on the first paragraph, just the way things are.
If you're mixed race, from what I've seen if one of your parents is African of from the Caribbean you'll be accepted by that community, don't expect that from the white community.
Not sure how heritage roots you, not one of those things that bothers me, then again if I were Black and grew up in a white family with no of few black friends around me, I'd probably say something a bit different.