MPS has made applied to @IslingtonBC to revoke or amend the Arsenal FC safety certificate for two local derby games at 5.30 pm on Saturday
Will be livid if they manage to change the Spurs game
The only other Sat 17:30 game Arsenal are playing at home as of yet is against Crystal Palace on the opening weekend (obviously a local derby), so presumably it along with the North London Derby are the games concerned.
I've voiced this before (as have others) but I find it ridiculous that the fixture list can't seem to be released without further changes afterwards. The same happened last season with the Tyne-Wear Derby having to swap with Chelsea-Man City after the live games announcement.
The reason the picking process takes so long SHOULD be because there is a lot of discussion has to take place with local authorities as a matter of course. Yet it seems to be that the core reason for the increasing length of time we have to wait is the haggling between Sky and BT over the picks themselves. At least that's how it looks from the outside.
I can sort of understand the reasoning with the Spurs game although any concerns should have been made during the discussions. Though i can't for the life of me think what their problem is with the Palace game. Wouldn't surprise me if the reason was they couldn't be bothered working late on a Saturday evening
When you consider the tax that is raked in from Premier League football the police should have very little say in this.
In theory both Arsenal games could be played on the Sunday - but we're not going to know until August 8th (eight days before the Palace game) and August 28th (four weeks before the Spurs game).
I don't know if a swap can be done with BT for the time slots, but that would be very unfair on the supporters of the other clubs in my opinion.
Another option would be for games to be played at the same time (12.45) - but again I don't think BT would put up with that.
Another option would be for games to be played at the same time (12.45) - but again I don't think BT would put up with that.
I imagine that's an absolute no-no. The domestic broadcasters pay huge sums to have exclusivity so don't want their product being watered down by a rival showing a match at the same time - understandably.
If complete flexibility is catered for then any fixture the police deem sensitive for whatever reason should be freely able to swap to 12.45 with BT swapping into 5.30 or 12pm Sunday, surely.
I think Man Utd and Swansea fans would be very angry (and rightly so) should their game have to move.
If Arsenal and Liverpool are both playing on the Tuesday night (perhaps impossible if they are paired) then Sunday 12 is a no go for Liverpool v Everton. And would the Merseyside Police tolerate a 17.30 kick off for the derby?
I think the F.A Cup game last season kicked off at 5.30 didn't it? And that had more away fans!
If that game went ahead I can't see it being changed this year.
Agreed as wouldn't the police last season have said "no, we won't allow this game to be at this time, if you want to show it on TV, pick a more suitable time for us that we're happy with", so in my view, they had their chance then and didn't take it, therefore, tough doodles, it's staying at 5.30pm, especially if it ddn't have any major issues last season with fan trouble etc.
And would the Merseyside Police tolerate a 17.30 kick off for the derby?
No, purely on the grounds that the city centre is busy enough on Saturday nights without the added hassle of 40,000+ people attending a football match. I can fully appreciate why they'd not allow that considering resources would be stretched to the limit.
It really annoys me that the Met tweeted about their request but don't say when it's been unsuccessful. I wouldn't have heard about it if it wasn't for this thread, so I guess most people concerned would have been none the wiser.
Here's hoping the Met give up and stop trying to mess people around.
Maybe not, but I'm not on about if they're a top 6 side to the broadcasters. I stand by my opinion, which is Leicester v Everton is FAR more appealing to me than Man Utd v Swansea, which appeals to me about as much as Hartlepool v Dagenham & Redbridge would, and that Man Utd v Swansea being picked just because it's Man Utd or just because it's LVG's first game (so what?) would be an extremely poor pick.
Good job that BT picked it. I assure you it was a good game to watch on TV.
And I may be wrong, but haven't you criticised people in the past for doing what you've just done?
It wasn't hindsight that a ridiculous comparison with Hartlepool v Dagenham & Redbridge was always going to be made to look silly though.
In post 388 I commented on the nature of this very post: wolvesdavid: I think Sky will use 1st pick on week 1 to show Louis Van Gaal's first game as the Manchester United manager. The debate has been done to death but I think Sky will pick it. Certainly appeals to me a lot more than Hartlepool v Dagenham & Redbridge though.
It was more the nature of the post and it was something others commented on.
Jules1: "You are entitled to your opinion, but to compare Man Utd - Swansea to Hartlepool - Dagenham & Redbridge, seems utterly ridiculous, I just don't get why you are so vociferous on this, and keep going on about it ad infinitum."
And thats not the only post that is so vociferous on the subject from him:
stevvy1986: "Really? A marquee fixture just because Man Utd have a new manager? Were you drunk or something when you came up with that idea?"
I don't think pointing out the nature of the posts is hindsight. There was a lot of other posts about Manchester United v Swansea and I have only pointed out 1 poster for the reasons I have given. Most of the debate on this thread has been of a high quality, and to ask if someone is drunk whilst making a forum post on this thread is completely disrespectful. I did point out the silly comparison before the match today.
The sort of comparison to Hartlepool v Dagenham & Redbridge makes meaningful debate impossible and I just thought I would point it out after the match had finished. If United had won comfortably 2-0 I would have posted: "In the end an easy United win but it was probably worth showing a bit more than Hartlepool v Dagenham though!"
Off topic but if Sky showed Hartlepool v Dagenham & Redbridge (one for the Football League thread really) there would be plenty of people saying: "You never know how good the game will be in advance."
Comments
The only other Sat 17:30 game Arsenal are playing at home as of yet is against Crystal Palace on the opening weekend (obviously a local derby), so presumably it along with the North London Derby are the games concerned.
I've voiced this before (as have others) but I find it ridiculous that the fixture list can't seem to be released without further changes afterwards. The same happened last season with the Tyne-Wear Derby having to swap with Chelsea-Man City after the live games announcement.
The reason the picking process takes so long SHOULD be because there is a lot of discussion has to take place with local authorities as a matter of course. Yet it seems to be that the core reason for the increasing length of time we have to wait is the haggling between Sky and BT over the picks themselves. At least that's how it looks from the outside.
Rant over.
In theory both Arsenal games could be played on the Sunday - but we're not going to know until August 8th (eight days before the Palace game) and August 28th (four weeks before the Spurs game).
I don't know if a swap can be done with BT for the time slots, but that would be very unfair on the supporters of the other clubs in my opinion.
Another option would be for games to be played at the same time (12.45) - but again I don't think BT would put up with that.
Hopefully the Met don't get their way.
I imagine that's an absolute no-no. The domestic broadcasters pay huge sums to have exclusivity so don't want their product being watered down by a rival showing a match at the same time - understandably.
If complete flexibility is catered for then any fixture the police deem sensitive for whatever reason should be freely able to swap to 12.45 with BT swapping into 5.30 or 12pm Sunday, surely.
If Arsenal and Liverpool are both playing on the Tuesday night (perhaps impossible if they are paired) then Sunday 12 is a no go for Liverpool v Everton. And would the Merseyside Police tolerate a 17.30 kick off for the derby?
If that game went ahead I can't see it being changed this year.
I suspect the Met are using that game as their reason for wanting this season's game moved.
Agreed as wouldn't the police last season have said "no, we won't allow this game to be at this time, if you want to show it on TV, pick a more suitable time for us that we're happy with", so in my view, they had their chance then and didn't take it, therefore, tough doodles, it's staying at 5.30pm, especially if it ddn't have any major issues last season with fan trouble etc.
No, purely on the grounds that the city centre is busy enough on Saturday nights without the added hassle of 40,000+ people attending a football match. I can fully appreciate why they'd not allow that considering resources would be stretched to the limit.
http://www.islingtontribune.com/news/2014/jul/%E2%80%98it%E2%80%99ll-all-kick-off%E2%80%99-fears-over-530pm-derbies-police-press-arsenal-matches-against-nei
Europa league?
The FA Cup match was played Saturday tea time with relatively little trouble so this is a very odd story.
Correct.
I think the league games were both 4PM kick-offs on a Sunday too.
Arsenal v Spurs doesn't strike me as a potential threat to the public.
Other London games might..
Was there any follow up to this - ie any response (in the public domain) from Islington Council?
Obviously we know the Palace game is going ahead as scheduled but what about the Spurs game at the end of September?
Would also be useful to know for the future - if Islington Council does propose to ban future derbies at Sat 5.30pm that would have implications.
Haven't heard anything since which would make me think that the Council have rejected the police request
Here's hoping the Met give up and stop trying to mess people around.
Good job that BT picked it. I assure you it was a good game to watch on TV.
And I may be wrong, but haven't you criticised people in the past for doing what you've just done?
It wasn't hindsight that a ridiculous comparison with Hartlepool v Dagenham & Redbridge was always going to be made to look silly though.
In post 388 I commented on the nature of this very post: wolvesdavid: I think Sky will use 1st pick on week 1 to show Louis Van Gaal's first game as the Manchester United manager. The debate has been done to death but I think Sky will pick it. Certainly appeals to me a lot more than Hartlepool v Dagenham & Redbridge though.
It was more the nature of the post and it was something others commented on.
Jules1: "You are entitled to your opinion, but to compare Man Utd - Swansea to Hartlepool - Dagenham & Redbridge, seems utterly ridiculous, I just don't get why you are so vociferous on this, and keep going on about it ad infinitum."
And thats not the only post that is so vociferous on the subject from him:
stevvy1986: "Really? A marquee fixture just because Man Utd have a new manager? Were you drunk or something when you came up with that idea?"
I don't think pointing out the nature of the posts is hindsight. There was a lot of other posts about Manchester United v Swansea and I have only pointed out 1 poster for the reasons I have given. Most of the debate on this thread has been of a high quality, and to ask if someone is drunk whilst making a forum post on this thread is completely disrespectful. I did point out the silly comparison before the match today.
The sort of comparison to Hartlepool v Dagenham & Redbridge makes meaningful debate impossible and I just thought I would point it out after the match had finished. If United had won comfortably 2-0 I would have posted: "In the end an easy United win but it was probably worth showing a bit more than Hartlepool v Dagenham though!"
Off topic but if Sky showed Hartlepool v Dagenham & Redbridge (one for the Football League thread really) there would be plenty of people saying: "You never know how good the game will be in advance."