"can" means you caste a very wide net. I don't think you can ban things based on their potential for causing hatred - when in this instance I really don't think they would do. They are mainly a play on words on the earlier stonewall campaign that was put on London buses a few years back.
I think Boris has overstepped the mark here.
I should have put 'likely' instead of 'can' in that post. Not everyone will behave in a more homophobic manner after seeing the advert, but some will though.
It's no more sad than people adopting. In fact at least the child would be related to one parent. I think you'll find that gay parents are primarily concerned that their child will be bullied, rather than any other issues.
As for people who are disowned, I find it sad that gay people being disowned should be seen as any kind of justification for a person changing their sexuality. Surely it's best to simply reach a place where people don't care so much about this issue, rather than hope for some kind of therapy so that the victim of this hatred can change. We need to get away from further victimising victims.
Why do people get nose jobs, diet, tan? to look better to other people.
It's a fine justification, you can't change others but you can change yourself. Why should you suffer because some pro gay PC people think you should 'get over it'? they are the ones with no compassion.
I'm glad to hear that Boris Johnson has blocked christian groups from putting adverts on buses that claim that gay people can be 'cured'.
'The full-length advert was due to appear on five different routes in the capital over a two-week period. It is backed by the Core Issues Trust whose leader, Mike Davidson, believes "homoerotic behaviour is sinful". His charity funds "reparative therapy" for gay Christians who believe that they have homosexual feelings but want to become straight. The campaign is also backed by Anglican Mainstream, an worldwide orthodox Anglican group whose supporters have equated homosexuality with alcoholism.
The advert was due to say: "Not gay! Ex-gay, post-gay and proud. Get over it!"
It worries me that these sorts of views may be taking hold in this country and could be propped up by the current government push towards 're-christianising' the UK.
Interested to hear people's views about this.
There shouldn't be any 'anti-gay' or 'pro-gay' adverts on Buses in London or anywhere else.
Having said that, the only reason they're there is because of 'anti-gay' propaganda, so it's only fair.
The answer is to cut off the oxygen of advertising for the absolutely mentally unbalanced morons who are claiming to 'cure' homosexuality.
Why do people get nose jobs, diet, tan? to look better to other people.
It's a fine justification, you can't change others but you can change yourself. Why should you suffer because some pro gay PC people think you should 'get over it'? they are the ones with no compassion.
A stones throw back in time gay people were treated with hormones and imprisoned. Do you honestly think that those speaking up for gay people have "no compassion"?
You just confirm my statement over and over that the only reason that someone would feel bad about their sexuality is because of a negative view in society. If people are being bullied and ostracised then we work on that (as is happening in society), don't say that the victim needs to be the one who is "cured". What next, victims of racist attacks taking a pill that changes their race? After all, with you it's the victim of mistreatment who needs to do with changing.
What are your feelings regarding your own sexuality? There's something amiss here. One minute you sound half reasonable, the next you're saying quite horrible things about "cures" and disease.
Why do people get nose jobs, diet, tan? to look better to other people.
It's a fine justification, you can't change others but you can change yourself. Why should you suffer because some pro gay PC people think you should 'get over it'? they are the ones with no compassion.
But nose jobs, diets and tans have an undeniable effect. This 'cure' for homosexuality has no credible evidence whatsoever.
If an orgaisation wants to advertise that homosexuality is a shameful condition which can be cured, the very least they should do is demonstrate the efficacy of the 'cure'. There are far too many alternative quacks and 'faith healers' making all sorts of preposterous claims to vulnerable people.
If an orgaisation wants to advertise that homosexuality is a shameful condition which can be cured, the very least they should do is demonstrate the efficacy of the 'cure'.
Why? - there was a TV ad for Ken Livingstone the other day that claimed that he would improve the lot of Londoner's - no evidence was provided to support that assertion at all. So what is different?
Why? - there was a TV ad for Ken Livingstone the other day that claimed that he would improve the lot of Londoner's - no evidence was provided to support that assertion at all. So what is different?
I think you have confused a candidate's campaign pledge with a claim of medical efficacy. They are not the same thing at all.
Of course sexuality is all in the mind - which is in the brain... where did you think it was?
The mind is not quite physical like the brain is.
The mind is a consequence of patterns of neural cell activity across vast networks in the brain.
We know that what we call the mind - our consciousness thought, personality, intelligence, memories etc - is correlated with activity across brain areas.
Gay men have the brain areas and lobes of the same size as women.
My view is that given you can alter the brain physically like you can with antidepressants, you should be able to alter how it reacts to stimuli that dictate what your sexuality is.
I think you have confused a candidate's campaign pledge with a claim of medical efficacy. They are not the same thing at all.
No - but the point is that people claim all sorts of things all the time, do we really need 'protection' against them or can we trust adults to make an informed decision?
No - but the point is that people claim all sorts of things all the time, do we really need 'protection' against them or can we trust adults to make an informed decision?
Caveat emptor is a very poor attitude to take when a 'cure' is being offered to people who may be in a very fragile state. What happens to the patient when the process inevitably fails?
Caveat emptor is a very poor attitude to take when a 'cure' is being offered to people who may be in a very fragile state. What happens to the patient when the process inevitably fails?
so we need to base legislation on the most impressionable rather than the average joe? - where would that lead?
Yes there is no way to change your sexuality. Science says there is no 'cure' YET, but there will be one day.
I didn't say that they should offer other options for people with Sexuality dysphoria, but they should at least research them. I'm not suggesting prayer btw!
Well I'm sorry if my being gay had a cure. I wouldnt want it. I am quite happy being who I am. I don't like penis's yuk:D Though I am sure many do:D
The mind is a consequence of patterns of neural cell activity across vast networks in the brain.
We know that what we call the mind - our consciousness thought, personality, intelligence, memories etc - is correlated with activity across brain areas.
Gay men have the brain areas and lobes of the same size as women.
My view is that given you can alter the brain physically like you can with antidepressants, you should be able to alter how it reacts to stimuli that dictate what your sexuality is.
The mind is physical - the neural cell activity is physical - the electrical and chemical reactions are physical. And all part of the brain. You cannot separate the two because they are the same thing.
Some studies have shown some differences in the brains of some people. There is no 'gay bit of the brain' that every gay person has, nor are they likely to find one. Any more than they have found a 'gay gene'. All the credible research shows that sexuality is developed from multiple and complex interacting factors and what makes me gay, and how my brain works is almost certainly different from what makes other gay people gay and how their brain works.
Of course you can try drugs to change the brain chemistry of gay people - it's already been tried... with universally rubbish results.
Being gay is just a one of the variations in normal human sexuality - it doesn't need fixing or curing. If someone dislikes being gay (or straight) then the effort needs to go into fixing *that* problem. We could start by getting some religions (and others) to stop making gay people think they are sinners or 'ill' and feeling that they need fixing at all.
The mind is physical - the neural cell activity is physical - the electrical and chemical reactions are physical. And all part of the brain. You cannot separate the two because they are the same thing.
Some studies have shown some differences in the brains of some people. There is no 'gay bit of the brain' that every gay person has, nor are they likely to find one. Any more than they have found a 'gay gene'. All the credible research shows that sexuality is developed from multiple and complex interacting factors and what makes me gay, and how my brain works is almost certainly different from what makes other gay people gay and how their brain works.
Of course you can try drugs to change the brain chemistry of gay people - it's already been tried... with universally rubbish results.
Being gay is just a one of the variations in normal human sexuality - it doesn't need fixing or curing. If someone dislikes being gay (or straight) then the effort needs to go into fixing *that* problem. We could start by getting some religions (and others) to stop making gay people think they are sinners or 'ill' and feeling that they need fixing at all.
Well then, agree to disagree. Off in to the realm of fantasy now and neither of us are scientists.
I don't understand why no one is listening to my explain that homosexuality doesn't require curing, neither does being male or female for trans. Dysphoria does.
I just feel that if you look at the pros and cons of it, you can solve a lot more by changing the sexuality than changing the attitude in the case of people who has dysphoria.
Same as in trans. I doubt we would go back to talking them in to accepting that they have to stay whatever sex they are.
So I should be punished by having free speech taken away because someone I've NEVER met might murder a homosexual? It's all the worse because banning 'hate speech' hasn't even prevented one murder.
you have the right to say what you want and the law will punish you for what breaks the law
free speech doesn't mean you should be inciting hatred
It is that simple. If someone uses their free speech to lie use yours to tell the truth.
It's like that NY hooker who lied about sleeping with David Beckham. He PROVED in court she was a liar and her punishment? Nothing. The court ruled her lies were protected as free speech.
She used free speech to lie, Beckham used free speech to correct her. There was no need for US or NY government involvement.
that is excellent in theory
in reality - the lies get spread far and wide and the truth is not to be seen
Well then, agree to disagree. Off in to the realm of fantasy now and neither of us are scientists.
I don't understand why no one is listening to my explain that homosexuality doesn't require curing, neither does being male or female for trans. Dysphoria does.
I just feel that if you look at the pros and cons of it, you can solve a lot more by changing the sexuality than changing the attitude in the case of people who has dysphoria.
Same as in trans. I doubt we would go back to talking them in to accepting that they have to stay whatever sex they are.
Actually I am a scientist.
The reason no-one is listening to you about "my explain that homosexuality doesn't require curing, neither does being male or female for trans. Dysphoria does" is that the two things are completely different but you don't seem to understand that.
Why do people get nose jobs, diet, tan? to look better to other people.
It's a fine justification, you can't change others but you can change yourself. Why should you suffer because some pro gay PC people think you should 'get over it'? they are the ones with no compassion.
they are right though
LBG are here and the bigots should get over it
why have compassion for them?
they are right though
LBG are here and the bigots should get over it
why have compassion for them?
no, compassion for the victims I mean.
If someone is being picked on for being fat, should they not be allowed lose weight? The bullies SHOULD get over it, but most likely they won't.
I wouldn't want the fat person to be forced to suffer if they don't want to.
Well then, agree to disagree. Off in to the realm of fantasy now and neither of us are scientists.
I don't understand why no one is listening to my explain that homosexuality doesn't require curing, neither does being male or female for trans. Dysphoria does.
It was in 1990, I believe, that homosexuality ceased to be defined as a disorder. That's not very long ago, and, (trying not to paraphrase Rumsfeld ), there must be many unknowns in the field of human sexuality. This leads to certain groups stating as established facts things which are not; and other groups trying portray unproven claims as factual.
It described Stonewall’s iconic ‘Some people are gay. Get over it!’ slogan devised by Simon Gage as an “attempt to close down critical debate about being gay and marriage ‘equality’” and said the “promotion of homosexual practices to children and young people, many of whom are known to experience ambivalence as they sort through issues of sexual identity, is misleading and dangerous”.
While it “recognise the rights of individuals to identify as gay”, it says “married men and women unhappy with their homosexuality should be supported in developing their heterosexual potential, where this is the appropriate life choice for them”.
The second BIB indicates what the underlying attiude of the Core Issues group is, that of homosexual practise being wrong, which contradicts the statement that heterosexuality is encouraged where this is the appropriate lifestyle choice.
I agree a bit with their opinion on Stonewall attempting to close down critical debate about being gay. "Some people are gay". There's an implication of: Some people are gay, they are irrevocably gay. "Get over it": End of story. Shut up.
Tom Robinson was glad to be gay. He ended up with a wife and child. I reckon sexuality is not necessarily fixed thoroughout life, circumstances can awaken dormant bisexuality in some people. "Some people are gay" is too simplistic and I don't think it's a bad thing to challenge the slogan, (although not by talking about "cures").
Comments
I should have put 'likely' instead of 'can' in that post. Not everyone will behave in a more homophobic manner after seeing the advert, but some will though.
What's so bad about being straight or bi?
Why do people get nose jobs, diet, tan? to look better to other people.
It's a fine justification, you can't change others but you can change yourself. Why should you suffer because some pro gay PC people think you should 'get over it'? they are the ones with no compassion.
There shouldn't be any 'anti-gay' or 'pro-gay' adverts on Buses in London or anywhere else.
Having said that, the only reason they're there is because of 'anti-gay' propaganda, so it's only fair.
The answer is to cut off the oxygen of advertising for the absolutely mentally unbalanced morons who are claiming to 'cure' homosexuality.
Of course sexuality is all in the mind - which is in the brain... where did you think it was?
A stones throw back in time gay people were treated with hormones and imprisoned. Do you honestly think that those speaking up for gay people have "no compassion"?
You just confirm my statement over and over that the only reason that someone would feel bad about their sexuality is because of a negative view in society. If people are being bullied and ostracised then we work on that (as is happening in society), don't say that the victim needs to be the one who is "cured". What next, victims of racist attacks taking a pill that changes their race? After all, with you it's the victim of mistreatment who needs to do with changing.
What are your feelings regarding your own sexuality? There's something amiss here. One minute you sound half reasonable, the next you're saying quite horrible things about "cures" and disease.
If an orgaisation wants to advertise that homosexuality is a shameful condition which can be cured, the very least they should do is demonstrate the efficacy of the 'cure'. There are far too many alternative quacks and 'faith healers' making all sorts of preposterous claims to vulnerable people.
Why? - there was a TV ad for Ken Livingstone the other day that claimed that he would improve the lot of Londoner's - no evidence was provided to support that assertion at all. So what is different?
The mind is not quite physical like the brain is.
The mind is a consequence of patterns of neural cell activity across vast networks in the brain.
We know that what we call the mind - our consciousness thought, personality, intelligence, memories etc - is correlated with activity across brain areas.
Gay men have the brain areas and lobes of the same size as women.
My view is that given you can alter the brain physically like you can with antidepressants, you should be able to alter how it reacts to stimuli that dictate what your sexuality is.
No - but the point is that people claim all sorts of things all the time, do we really need 'protection' against them or can we trust adults to make an informed decision?
so we need to base legislation on the most impressionable rather than the average joe? - where would that lead?
Well I'm sorry if my being gay had a cure. I wouldnt want it. I am quite happy being who I am. I don't like penis's yuk:D Though I am sure many do:D
The mind is physical - the neural cell activity is physical - the electrical and chemical reactions are physical. And all part of the brain. You cannot separate the two because they are the same thing.
Some studies have shown some differences in the brains of some people. There is no 'gay bit of the brain' that every gay person has, nor are they likely to find one. Any more than they have found a 'gay gene'. All the credible research shows that sexuality is developed from multiple and complex interacting factors and what makes me gay, and how my brain works is almost certainly different from what makes other gay people gay and how their brain works.
Of course you can try drugs to change the brain chemistry of gay people - it's already been tried... with universally rubbish results.
Being gay is just a one of the variations in normal human sexuality - it doesn't need fixing or curing. If someone dislikes being gay (or straight) then the effort needs to go into fixing *that* problem. We could start by getting some religions (and others) to stop making gay people think they are sinners or 'ill' and feeling that they need fixing at all.
Well then, agree to disagree. Off in to the realm of fantasy now and neither of us are scientists.
I don't understand why no one is listening to my explain that homosexuality doesn't require curing, neither does being male or female for trans. Dysphoria does.
I just feel that if you look at the pros and cons of it, you can solve a lot more by changing the sexuality than changing the attitude in the case of people who has dysphoria.
Same as in trans. I doubt we would go back to talking them in to accepting that they have to stay whatever sex they are.
that makes more sense
I hadn't heard of that before
you have the right to say what you want and the law will punish you for what breaks the law
free speech doesn't mean you should be inciting hatred
in reality - the lies get spread far and wide and the truth is not to be seen
Actually I am a scientist.
The reason no-one is listening to you about "my explain that homosexuality doesn't require curing, neither does being male or female for trans. Dysphoria does" is that the two things are completely different but you don't seem to understand that.
Ah well.
the point wasn't to do with bi or straight
they are right though
LBG are here and the bigots should get over it
why have compassion for them?
no, compassion for the victims I mean.
If someone is being picked on for being fat, should they not be allowed lose weight? The bullies SHOULD get over it, but most likely they won't.
I wouldn't want the fat person to be forced to suffer if they don't want to.
It was in 1990, I believe, that homosexuality ceased to be defined as a disorder. That's not very long ago, and, (trying not to paraphrase Rumsfeld
The second BIB indicates what the underlying attiude of the Core Issues group is, that of homosexual practise being wrong, which contradicts the statement that heterosexuality is encouraged where this is the appropriate lifestyle choice.
I agree a bit with their opinion on Stonewall attempting to close down critical debate about being gay. "Some people are gay". There's an implication of: Some people are gay, they are irrevocably gay. "Get over it": End of story. Shut up.
Tom Robinson was glad to be gay. He ended up with a wife and child. I reckon sexuality is not necessarily fixed thoroughout life, circumstances can awaken dormant bisexuality in some people. "Some people are gay" is too simplistic and I don't think it's a bad thing to challenge the slogan, (although not by talking about "cures").