Even though the gunman died the customers did the right thing , lethal force is reasonable if you think your life is in danger, as he had a gun I think being in fear of your life is a reasonable assumption even though it was later found out it was a replica firearm
I wouldnt even class what they did as 'lethal force' - restraining somebody is not lethal force, even if it does result in death.
Even though the gunman died the customers did the right thing , lethal force is reasonable if you think your life is in danger, as he had a gun I think being in fear of your life is a reasonable assumption even though it was later found out it was a replica firearm
Exactly just like the police if a gun man is waving a gun at police or civilians and he gets shot and then the gun turns out to be fake the Police are not to blame as they used whatever force was thought necessary at that moment in time.
If you have a gun pushed in your face your not going to ask if it's real or not and if you have a chance to protect your life or someone else's you act
Criminals are cowards they wouldn't take the chance even in a mob
You think a desperate drug crazed hardened criminal who needs money is going to let the public put him off?
All this have a go heroism is going to lead to members of the public getting killed by criminals who aren't taking any chances.
Speaking for myself, if I was an armed robber and had the public try to disarm me then the next time I did an armed robbery I would bring a friend and a bigger gun.
Once they took the gun from him they had no reason to think they were in danger.
The customers were completely in the wrong to let, or make, this man die just for revenge.
They would have been restraining him to prevent him escaping and to prevent any further harm? People can still be dangerous without a gun, who knows what else he was armed with?
They would have been restraining him to prevent him escaping and to prevent any further harm? People can still be dangerous without a gun, who knows what else he was armed with?
Yeah them lungs can be lethal. Better to squash them so they can't be all dangerous and suck air in.
They would have been restraining him to prevent him escaping and to prevent any further harm? People can still be dangerous without a gun, who knows what else he was armed with?
Don't bother, the guy is on the wind up and and has been all day. He has been presented with reason all day and he continues to bait everyone with ridiculous guesswork!
They would have been restraining him to prevent him escaping and to prevent any further harm? People can still be dangerous without a gun, who knows what else he was armed with?
Obiviously some forum members would be calm and collected if they were in a similar situation and only use enough force to manage the situation until the police arrived.....
I don't think that most of us would manage to do that without training. How many times have fellow forum members had a gun pointed at them?
Obiviously some forum members would be calm and collected if they were in a similar situation and only use enough force to manage the situation until the police arrived.....
I don't think that you would manage to do that without training. How many times have fellow forum members had a gun pointed at them?
I have, twice.
I let them get on with it. My life is worth more than a few quid.
Come and speak to me when you've restrained dangerous people and have experience in doing so.
Actually i work in a prison but I would panic and scream if I was in a shop and someone pointed a gun at me. In a shop, you don't have your colleagues, any protocol, equipment etc
Its to do with expectations isn't it? Like jumping into a swimming pool when you are going swimming is different to falling into a river when you are out walking?
Actually i work in a prison but I would panic and scream if I was in a shop and someone pointed a gun at me.
Its to do with expectations isn't it? Like jumping into a swimming pool when you are going swimming is different to falling into a river when you are out walking?
The comment was aimed at Giovan - and even so I understand your position completely. What I'm saying is that an armed robber with a gun doesn't necessarily become a harmless man when you take his gun away and hold him on the floor. As you state - most people would be terrified anyway, so will do what they think is necessary. Giovan infered that what the men did was wrong because all the robber had at that point was 'lungs'.
TBH a lot of criminals have the same mind set most here do they accept that if they commit a crime and it backfires on them they agree it's their fault it's part of the "If you can't do the time don't do the crime" mind set
TBH a lot of criminals have the same mind set most here do they accept that if they commit a crime and it backfires on them they agree it's their fault it's part of the "If you can't do the time don't do the crime" mind set
It is sounding like he was slowly suffocated to death for trying to rob a few quid from a bookmakers.
Does anyone here really believe that is something to celebrate?
No, of course not. I'm just saying that it is not easy to manage a situation like that. Even in familiar surroundings where it is expected and you have lots of help and trained staff and you don't think that you are about to be killed, it can go wrong.
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I wouldnt even class what they did as 'lethal force' - restraining somebody is not lethal force, even if it does result in death.
Exactly just like the police if a gun man is waving a gun at police or civilians and he gets shot and then the gun turns out to be fake the Police are not to blame as they used whatever force was thought necessary at that moment in time.
If you have a gun pushed in your face your not going to ask if it's real or not and if you have a chance to protect your life or someone else's you act
You think a desperate drug crazed hardened criminal who needs money is going to let the public put him off?
All this have a go heroism is going to lead to members of the public getting killed by criminals who aren't taking any chances.
Speaking for myself, if I was an armed robber and had the public try to disarm me then the next time I did an armed robbery I would bring a friend and a bigger gun.
I give up
If everyone thought like you the streets wouldn't be safe and lawlessness would have taken over , thank god your in a minority
They would have been restraining him to prevent him escaping and to prevent any further harm? People can still be dangerous without a gun, who knows what else he was armed with?
Yeah them lungs can be lethal. Better to squash them so they can't be all dangerous and suck air in.
Don't bother, the guy is on the wind up and and has been all day. He has been presented with reason all day and he continues to bait everyone with ridiculous guesswork!
Obiviously some forum members would be calm and collected if they were in a similar situation and only use enough force to manage the situation until the police arrived.....
I don't think that most of us would manage to do that without training. How many times have fellow forum members had a gun pointed at them?
So he wouldn't have started throwing punches and kicks has they not pinned him down I guess he would have just sat patiently waiting for the police.
I have, twice.
I let them get on with it. My life is worth more than a few quid.
Come and speak to me when you've restrained dangerous people and have experience in doing so.
They could have let him go. His dabs would be all over the gun anyway.
How do you know he wasn't wearing gloves?
You presume much and know nothing!
Why let him go with the police coming anyway and may them spend more time looking for him wasting their time and giving him a chance to do it again
Actually i work in a prison but I would panic and scream if I was in a shop and someone pointed a gun at me. In a shop, you don't have your colleagues, any protocol, equipment etc
Its to do with expectations isn't it? Like jumping into a swimming pool when you are going swimming is different to falling into a river when you are out walking?
The comment was aimed at Giovan - and even so I understand your position completely. What I'm saying is that an armed robber with a gun doesn't necessarily become a harmless man when you take his gun away and hold him on the floor. As you state - most people would be terrified anyway, so will do what they think is necessary. Giovan infered that what the men did was wrong because all the robber had at that point was 'lungs'.
Does anyone here really believe that is something to celebrate?
Does anyone here believe you mean anything you've said?
Now have a vol au vent and shut up.
Yes
Next
The punishment for robbery isn't death.
You are honestly trying to make it sound like he did nothing wrong at all "All he did was try to rob them" really that's what you think.
It's a sad world when the robber is thought of as the poor victim
No, of course not. I'm just saying that it is not easy to manage a situation like that. Even in familiar surroundings where it is expected and you have lots of help and trained staff and you don't think that you are about to be killed, it can go wrong.
No but when they go into anywhere to commit a crime they know there is a chance the victims will fight back and accept that