Considering the fact women still can die from giving birth, yes. A daughter of a local in my mother's village died from giving birth a few years ago. Heart failure, which was crazy as the daughter was healthy and into keeping fit. I read a news report last month or so about a new mother dying, which shows the risk is still there.
Not just that, pregnancy can give women all sort of health problems during and post - diabetes, symphysis pubic dysfunction, back problem that lasts after birth, crippling post-natal depression, etc.
Many people don't realise how risky and affecting a pregnancy can be for some. So yes, it's a ****ing miracle when each woman and her newborn are healthy and doing well after birth.
My dear friend had a miscarriage, and then a stillbirth, and then was laid up in hospital for six months before she had her lovely and beautiful living child.
It's a fine thing, and can be very hard.
And even when it's 'easy' it's bloody hard to be a mother, even though we've all had one.
I always joke and say about my kids, look how gorgeous and clever they are and I didn't even know I was doing anything. Imagine if I'd tried!
There's a lot to be said for not giving ourselves a pat on the back for doing something beyond our control. I've also had several miscarriages and did nothing different with those pregnancies than I did with those who survived. But we can't deny the amazing way each of us is here and to be a part of that awesome process through motherhood is special.
But - it's special to us all and someone needs to let the Facebook mums know that
My brother was 9lbs 2 - the dr even joked he'd be a great rugby player (his shoulders got stuck).
As it turns out, he's grown up to be tallest yet skinniest in the family.
My little brother was like that. He was about 10lbs and he was a really fat kid until he was about 6 or 7 (when he turned into a skinny wee beanpole), whereas I was 6lb 11oz and was skinny until puberty hit!
I do get peed with the proud mother brigade. As long as we know and accept that we all think our baby is the best, the most clever, most talented, the most beautiful, then that's fine. Nature makes us think that otherwise we'd leave them in a kerb somewhere. It's those who really, genuinely believe it that get my goat. There's never any real reason for it either, their kids are perfectly adequate, like everyone else's.
Yeah, they annoy me too. It's the clever thing that irritates me, usually uttered when they've done some mundane thing that almost every single other normal healthy baby does around that same time. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my son but I don't go wandering around claiming he's super clever because he rolled over. Someone actually said to me "Awww, he rolled over, isn't he clever?" My response was "Yep he rolled over, he does it quite a lot, we don't know if he's clever or not yet though as we haven't been able to get him to take an IQ test."
Yeah, they annoy me too. It's the clever thing that irritates me, usually uttered when they've done some mundane thing that almost every single other normal healthy baby does around that same time. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my son but I don't go wandering around claiming he's super clever because he rolled over. Someone actually said to me "Awww, he rolled over, isn't he clever?" My response was "Yep he rolled over, he does it quite a lot, we don't know if he's clever or not yet though as we haven't been able to get him to take an IQ test."
Yeah, they annoy me too. It's the clever thing that irritates me, usually uttered when they've done some mundane thing that almost every single other normal healthy baby does around that same time. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my son but I don't go wandering around claiming he's super clever because he rolled over. Someone actually said to me "Awww, he rolled over, isn't he clever?" My response was "Yep he rolled over, he does it quite a lot, we don't know if he's clever or not yet though as we haven't been able to get him to take an IQ test."
Sounds to me like you go to far the other way, if so, your child will suffer for it.
Yeah, they annoy me too. It's the clever thing that irritates me, usually uttered when they've done some mundane thing that almost every single other normal healthy baby does around that same time. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my son but I don't go wandering around claiming he's super clever because he rolled over. Someone actually said to me "Awww, he rolled over, isn't he clever?" My response was "Yep he rolled over, he does it quite a lot, we don't know if he's clever or not yet though as we haven't been able to get him to take an IQ test."
Be proud of your son , the human body is very fickle and many would wish their babies could roll. Give credit where its due and praise , praise , praise . Babies thrive on it
Yeah, they annoy me too. It's the clever thing that irritates me, usually uttered when they've done some mundane thing that almost every single other normal healthy baby does around that same time. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my son but I don't go wandering around claiming he's super clever because he rolled over. Someone actually said to me "Awww, he rolled over, isn't he clever?" My response was "Yep he rolled over, he does it quite a lot, we don't know if he's clever or not yet though as we haven't been able to get him to take an IQ test."
You sound a pleasure to be around.
I always praised my two whenever they did something like that, it's how babies thrive.
Yeah this, praise and encouragement when they do things (even if it seems easy to us) is what babies need.
For some people (perhaps it's just a messageboard thing and they enjoy trying to wind people up), there are only 2 options, black or white, no in-between. I don't get that at all, there are obviously 2 extremes when it comes to child-rearing, you can be cold and uncaring and you can be over the top and think your child never does wrong. Most parents are in the middle somewhere, they love their kids, praise them, and correct them where necessary. Kids need to know that their parents give a damn, that includes letting them know when they've done right and just as importantly, wrong. Many of us probably know parents who either are afraid to discipline their kids or do nothing BUT criticise them. Both are unhealthy ways to raise a child.
For some people (perhaps it's just a messageboard thing and they enjoy trying to wind people up), there are only 2 options, black or white, no in-between. I don't get that at all, there are obviously 2 extremes when it comes to child-rearing, you can be cold and uncaring and you can be over the top and think your child never does wrong. Most parents are in the middle somewhere, they love their kids, praise them, and correct them where necessary. Kids need to know that their parents give a damn, that includes letting them know when they've done right and just as importantly, wrong. Many of us probably know parents who either are afraid to discipline their kids or do nothing BUT criticise them. Both are unhealthy ways to raise a child.
Be proud of your son , the human body is very fickle and many would wish their babies could roll. Give credit where its due and praise , praise , praise . Babies thrive on it
Yeah this, praise and encouragement when they do things (even if it seems easy to us) is what babies need.
At what point did I say I wasn't proud or I didn't praise him? I am very proud of him and I praise him for doing things. What I don't do is walk round banging on to other people or posting all over Facebook about how clever he is for doing something mundane and that every baby does.
At what point did I say I wasn't proud or I didn't praise him? I am very proud of him and I praise him for doing things. What I don't do is walk round banging on to other people or posting all over Facebook about how clever he is for doing something mundane and that every baby does.
I'm sure you do praise your son, I wasn't saying you don't.
I was simply reiterating the point that babies need praise, not talking specifically about you.
At what point did I say I wasn't proud or I didn't praise him? I am very proud of him and I praise him for doing things. What I don't do is walk round banging on to other people or posting all over Facebook about how clever he is for doing something mundane and that every baby does.
Well that isnt how you come over. You said your child rolled over and someone said something in praise of it and you acted all blasé as in, AND! That is in hearing of your child.
Its OK, you dont have to be cool and edgy to put a point across. You can just smile indulgently . ;-)
You have to admit you are kind of anti 'proud' parent Jambo? Not sure if that is the right phrase but you pop up on every single parent / child thread to tell everyone who much your life hasn't changed, how undefined you are by your child, how you don't boast about your child, how you don't really mention him to work colleagues, how you dislike parents that are all about their kids,
The fact that you have been almost rude to people who have asked about your child's weight is also a bit odd? People ask out of politeness so at least you can be polite back.
I just get the impression that you are so proud of how your child hasn't changed your life you are the other extreme of the parents you dislike (the proud / annoying ones!)
I am not being mean, it's merely an observation.
I like to think I am somewhere in-between. I don't have FB, I don't speak about my child at work unless asked (only one person on my floor has young children, all the others are childless or have grown up children) although I do have photos on my desk.
I do think my child is the most amazing and beautiful creature I have ever laid eyes on but I am well aware he isn't a genius and he only does what other kids do... Nonetheless first smiles and first steps and first words have been bloody amazing! I save the gushing for my OH though - he is the only one that gets it.
There is no shame in being a proud parent and there is no need to play it down, My whole world has changed but I manage to keep that mainly to myself. To colleagues and most friends I am still the same old RG but inside I am a totally different person.
Back to the whole "achievement" debate. Regardless of how you phrase it I am bloody proud of myself. I managed to grow a baby and get him here in one piece. After several losses it was an amazing feat for me. Yes my body is designed to do it BUT I am still very proud of myself. For the purpose of this thread there is no shame about that from me.... Although its not something I shout about. Most friends and family don't know we suffered recurrent miscarriages and I only ever talk about my labour / birth if it comes up? Having pregnant friends means it is an occasional topic.
Well that isnt how you come over. You said your child rolled over and someone said something in praise of it and you acted all blasé as in, AND! That is in hearing of your child.
Its OK, you dont have to be cool and edgy to put a point across. You can just smile indulgently . ;-)
No, the person didn't praise him, they said to me "Isn't he clever?" I'm sorry but I don't think he is "clever" for rolling over. I'll happily praise him because he is doing something that is showing he is developing successfully, I'll say "well done" and cheer or whatever but I'm not going to start proclaiming that he's some sort of genius and boring everyone with it.
You have to admit you are kind of anti 'proud' parent Jambo? Not sure if that is the right phrase but you pop up on every single parent / child thread to tell everyone who much your life hasn't changed, how undefined you are by your child, how you don't boast about your child, how you don't really mention him to work colleagues, how you dislike parents that are all about their kids,
The fact that you have been almost rude to people who have asked about your child's weight is also a bit odd? People ask out of politeness so at least you can be polite back.
I just get the impression that you are so proud of how your child hasn't changed your life you are the other extreme of the parents you dislike (the proud / annoying ones!)
I am not being mean, it's merely an observation.
I like to think I am somewhere in-between. I don't have FB, I don't speak about my child at work unless asked (only one person on my floor has young children, all the others are childless or have grown up children) although I do have photos on my desk.
I do think my child is the most amazing and beautiful creature I have ever laid eyes on but I am well aware he isn't a genius and he only does what other kids do... Nonetheless first smiles and first steps and first words have been bloody amazing! I save the gushing for my OH though - he is the only one that gets it.
There is no shame in being a proud parent and there is no need to play it down, My whole world has changed but I manage to keep that mainly to myself. To colleagues and most friends I am still the same old RG but inside I am a totally different person.
I'm not "anti proud" at all. I'm very proud of my son but keep it between my wife and I. It's great when they reach a milestone and it was great when he smiled, laughed, rolled over or whatever but I just don't feel the need to bore everyone else with it. I'm not interested in hearing about other peoples babies, I find them incredibly boring, so I'd be a hypocrite to start telling everyone about mine.
I post in most threads just to show that having a child doesn't have to completely change you and take over your life or leave you unable to talk about anything else or make you completely obsessed.
I wasn't rude to people either, these are people that I know and they know me. It was a genuine question, when asked how much he weighs I genuinely wanted to know why they wanted to know. As I said, most actually didn't even know themselves, they were just doing it because "it's something you say", which to me is a little odd. Most of them actually said to me something along the lines of "you've got a point there, it is a bit weird asking that." It might be out of politeness but I just find it odd. I'd actually appreciate honesty more than politeness, I hate all the falseness that goes with these kind of things. Loads of people say "That's a lovely name" and then when the person has left the room proceed to say what a odd or rubbish name it is. I'm not expecting people to go "Oh, what a crap name" but I'd rather they didn't lie to me, just don't say anything, although I'd respect someone more if they said they weren't keen on the name.
Back to the whole "achievement" debate. Regardless of how you phrase it I am bloody proud of myself. I managed to grow a baby and get him here in one piece. After several losses it was an amazing feat for me. Yes my body is designed to do it BUT I am still very proud of myself. For the purpose of this thread there is no shame about that from me.... Although its not something I shout about. Most friends and family don't know we suffered recurrent miscarriages and I only ever talk about my labour / birth if it comes up? Having pregnant friends means it is an occasional topic.
I've come to realise through various conversations with people that the order in which things happens can affect how you view it.
For people who have had losses and then go on to have a live baby it does feel like a massive achievement and something to be proud of.
For me who had 2 live babies and then a stillbirth at 30 weeks, and for other people I know who had losses after having live babies, the loss casts a different view on the achievement aspect of the earlier births.
I don't think I worded that very well but hopefully it makes sense.
I also don't deny any woman the right to feel proud or to treat having a baby as an achievement, it's an individual thing and every woman can feel however she wants to about it. I was simply pointing out to someone who had claimed that every mother finds it an achievement that that isn't necessarily the way.
No, the person didn't praise him, they said to me "Isn't he clever?" I'm sorry but I don't think he is "clever" for rolling over. I'll happily praise him because he is doing something that is showing he is developing successfully, I'll say "well done" and cheer or whatever but I'm not going to start proclaiming that he's some sort of genius and boring everyone with it.
I'm not "anti proud" at all. I'm very proud of my son but keep it between my wife and I. It's great when they reach a milestone and it was great when he smiled, laughed, rolled over or whatever but I just don't feel the need to bore everyone else with it. I'm not interested in hearing about other peoples babies, I find them incredibly boring, so I'd be a hypocrite to start telling everyone about mine.
I post in most threads just to show that having a child doesn't have to completely change you and take over your life or leave you unable to talk about anything else or make you completely obsessed.
I wasn't rude to people either, these are people that I know and they know me. It was a genuine question, when asked how much he weighs I genuinely wanted to know why they wanted to know. As I said, most actually didn't even know themselves, they were just doing it because "it's something you say", which to me is a little odd. Most of them actually said to me something along the lines of "you've got a point there, it is a bit weird asking that." It might be out of politeness but I just find it odd. I'd actually appreciate honesty more than politeness, I hate all the falseness that goes with these kind of things. Loads of people say "That's a lovely name" and then when the person has left the room proceed to say what a odd or rubbish name it is. I'm not expecting people to go "Oh, what a crap name" but I'd rather they didn't lie to me, just don't say anything, although I'd respect someone more if they said they weren't keen on the name.
You ( to me) seem to be go the opposite way to prove a point and are just as obsessed as the type people you dislike.
I have three children and 6 grandchildren Im very proud of them all but you will rarely find me in threads or conversations talking about their achievements.
I've come to realise through various conversations with people that the order in which things happens can affect how you view it.
For people who have had losses and then go on to have a live baby it does feel like a massive achievement and something to be proud of.
For me who had 2 live babies and then a stillbirth at 30 weeks, and for other people I know who had losses after having live babies, the loss casts a different view on the achievement aspect of the earlier births.
I don't think I worded that very well but hopefully it makes sense.
I also don't deny any woman the right to feel proud or to treat having a baby as an achievement, it's an individual thing and every woman can feel however she wants to about it. I was simply pointing out to someone who had claimed that every mother finds it an achievement that that isn't necessarily the way.
If only all mums and everyone else realized that to have a baby , no matter what he or she weighs is a huge achievement for any one . Be it 4 lbs or 12 lbs or in between a baby is amazing and wonderful
My intention was in support of all mums , no matter what weight or what size .I certainely had no intention to hurt anyone with my post .The very opposite was my intent .
And I didnt claim anything about h ow all mothers feel , I was making my own point about how I feel about mothers
I quite genuinely do not want to argue , but I thought it a little unfair to nitpick my post which was purely in support of all mums
I don't think it's "ordinary", I think it's quite amazing.
My issue with calling it an achievement is that it wrongly implies that the pregnant woman has control over the outcome, which in turn wrongly implies that she could have controlled or prevented it if things do go wrong.
I feel the same way when someone gets cancer, and others say "dont worry, they are a fighter, they will get through this"
It makes me think, that they think my loved ones didn't fight hard enough, and that hurts.
My intention was in support of all mums , no matter what weight or what size .I certainely had no intention to hurt anyone with my post .The very opposite was my intent .
And I didnt claim anything about h ow all mothers feel , I was making my own point about how I feel about mothers
I quite genuinely do not want to argue , but I thought it a little unfair to nitpick my post which was purely in support of all mums
It wasn't actually that post, although it was one of your posts, it was this one -
Talking specifically about having a baby being an achievement, no mention of weight.
I know you had no intention of hurting anyone and while it may seem like nitpicking to you, it did read like you were claiming that all mothers feel that it's an achievement.
I feel the same way when someone gets cancer, and others say "dont worry, they are a fighter, they will get through this"
It makes me think, that they think my loved ones didn't fight hard enough, and that hurts.
So do I about the cancer thing... I know people say it's only a word, but the (often unintentional) implications behind the use of a word can hurt
Mine weighed 3lb 10oz and 5lb 4oz so I guess I'm not going to get the badge of honour for giving birth to fat babies and I had c sections so I can't even claim any credit for pushing the buggers out. I am a failure!
Well that isnt how you come over. You said your child rolled over and someone said something in praise of it and you acted all blasé as in, AND! That is in hearing of your child.
Its OK, you dont have to be cool and edgy to put a point across. You can just smile indulgently . ;-)
If the child is so young to only just be able to roll over, I don't think it's quite ready to understand sarcasm!!
Sheesh, you make one innocent comment on here and people are quick as a flash ready to hang you out to dry.
Comments
I agree.
It's a wonderful and special ordinary miracle.
My dear friend had a miscarriage, and then a stillbirth, and then was laid up in hospital for six months before she had her lovely and beautiful living child.
It's a fine thing, and can be very hard.
And even when it's 'easy' it's bloody hard to be a mother, even though we've all had one.
There's a lot to be said for not giving ourselves a pat on the back for doing something beyond our control. I've also had several miscarriages and did nothing different with those pregnancies than I did with those who survived. But we can't deny the amazing way each of us is here and to be a part of that awesome process through motherhood is special.
But - it's special to us all and someone needs to let the Facebook mums know that
My little brother was like that. He was about 10lbs and he was a really fat kid until he was about 6 or 7 (when he turned into a skinny wee beanpole), whereas I was 6lb 11oz and was skinny until puberty hit!
Yeah, they annoy me too. It's the clever thing that irritates me, usually uttered when they've done some mundane thing that almost every single other normal healthy baby does around that same time. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my son but I don't go wandering around claiming he's super clever because he rolled over. Someone actually said to me "Awww, he rolled over, isn't he clever?" My response was "Yep he rolled over, he does it quite a lot, we don't know if he's clever or not yet though as we haven't been able to get him to take an IQ test."
Sounds to me like you go to far the other way, if so, your child will suffer for it.
Be proud of your son , the human body is very fickle and many would wish their babies could roll. Give credit where its due and praise , praise , praise . Babies thrive on it
You sound a pleasure to be around.
I always praised my two whenever they did something like that, it's how babies thrive.
Yeah this, praise and encouragement when they do things (even if it seems easy to us) is what babies need.
For some people (perhaps it's just a messageboard thing and they enjoy trying to wind people up), there are only 2 options, black or white, no in-between. I don't get that at all, there are obviously 2 extremes when it comes to child-rearing, you can be cold and uncaring and you can be over the top and think your child never does wrong. Most parents are in the middle somewhere, they love their kids, praise them, and correct them where necessary. Kids need to know that their parents give a damn, that includes letting them know when they've done right and just as importantly, wrong. Many of us probably know parents who either are afraid to discipline their kids or do nothing BUT criticise them. Both are unhealthy ways to raise a child.
I totally agree.
At what point did I say I wasn't proud or I didn't praise him? I am very proud of him and I praise him for doing things. What I don't do is walk round banging on to other people or posting all over Facebook about how clever he is for doing something mundane and that every baby does.
I'm sure you do praise your son, I wasn't saying you don't.
I was simply reiterating the point that babies need praise, not talking specifically about you.
Well that isnt how you come over. You said your child rolled over and someone said something in praise of it and you acted all blasé as in, AND! That is in hearing of your child.
Its OK, you dont have to be cool and edgy to put a point across. You can just smile indulgently . ;-)
The fact that you have been almost rude to people who have asked about your child's weight is also a bit odd? People ask out of politeness so at least you can be polite back.
I just get the impression that you are so proud of how your child hasn't changed your life you are the other extreme of the parents you dislike (the proud / annoying ones!)
I am not being mean, it's merely an observation.
I like to think I am somewhere in-between. I don't have FB, I don't speak about my child at work unless asked (only one person on my floor has young children, all the others are childless or have grown up children) although I do have photos on my desk.
I do think my child is the most amazing and beautiful creature I have ever laid eyes on but I am well aware he isn't a genius and he only does what other kids do... Nonetheless first smiles and first steps and first words have been bloody amazing! I save the gushing for my OH though - he is the only one that gets it.
There is no shame in being a proud parent and there is no need to play it down, My whole world has changed but I manage to keep that mainly to myself. To colleagues and most friends I am still the same old RG but inside I am a totally different person.
Back to the whole "achievement" debate. Regardless of how you phrase it I am bloody proud of myself. I managed to grow a baby and get him here in one piece. After several losses it was an amazing feat for me. Yes my body is designed to do it BUT I am still very proud of myself. For the purpose of this thread there is no shame about that from me.... Although its not something I shout about. Most friends and family don't know we suffered recurrent miscarriages and I only ever talk about my labour / birth if it comes up? Having pregnant friends means it is an occasional topic.
No, the person didn't praise him, they said to me "Isn't he clever?" I'm sorry but I don't think he is "clever" for rolling over. I'll happily praise him because he is doing something that is showing he is developing successfully, I'll say "well done" and cheer or whatever but I'm not going to start proclaiming that he's some sort of genius and boring everyone with it.
I'm not "anti proud" at all. I'm very proud of my son but keep it between my wife and I. It's great when they reach a milestone and it was great when he smiled, laughed, rolled over or whatever but I just don't feel the need to bore everyone else with it. I'm not interested in hearing about other peoples babies, I find them incredibly boring, so I'd be a hypocrite to start telling everyone about mine.
I post in most threads just to show that having a child doesn't have to completely change you and take over your life or leave you unable to talk about anything else or make you completely obsessed.
I wasn't rude to people either, these are people that I know and they know me. It was a genuine question, when asked how much he weighs I genuinely wanted to know why they wanted to know. As I said, most actually didn't even know themselves, they were just doing it because "it's something you say", which to me is a little odd. Most of them actually said to me something along the lines of "you've got a point there, it is a bit weird asking that." It might be out of politeness but I just find it odd. I'd actually appreciate honesty more than politeness, I hate all the falseness that goes with these kind of things. Loads of people say "That's a lovely name" and then when the person has left the room proceed to say what a odd or rubbish name it is. I'm not expecting people to go "Oh, what a crap name" but I'd rather they didn't lie to me, just don't say anything, although I'd respect someone more if they said they weren't keen on the name.
I've come to realise through various conversations with people that the order in which things happens can affect how you view it.
For people who have had losses and then go on to have a live baby it does feel like a massive achievement and something to be proud of.
For me who had 2 live babies and then a stillbirth at 30 weeks, and for other people I know who had losses after having live babies, the loss casts a different view on the achievement aspect of the earlier births.
I don't think I worded that very well but hopefully it makes sense.
I also don't deny any woman the right to feel proud or to treat having a baby as an achievement, it's an individual thing and every woman can feel however she wants to about it. I was simply pointing out to someone who had claimed that every mother finds it an achievement that that isn't necessarily the way.
You ( to me) seem to be go the opposite way to prove a point and are just as obsessed as the type people you dislike.
I have three children and 6 grandchildren Im very proud of them all but you will rarely find me in threads or conversations talking about their achievements.
its my post you mean I think and I quote it below
My intention was in support of all mums , no matter what weight or what size .I certainely had no intention to hurt anyone with my post .The very opposite was my intent .
And I didnt claim anything about h ow all mothers feel , I was making my own point about how I feel about mothers
I quite genuinely do not want to argue , but I thought it a little unfair to nitpick my post which was purely in support of all mums
I feel the same way when someone gets cancer, and others say "dont worry, they are a fighter, they will get through this"
It makes me think, that they think my loved ones didn't fight hard enough, and that hurts.
It wasn't actually that post, although it was one of your posts, it was this one -
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=74359261&postcount=43
Talking specifically about having a baby being an achievement, no mention of weight.
I know you had no intention of hurting anyone and while it may seem like nitpicking to you, it did read like you were claiming that all mothers feel that it's an achievement.
So do I about the cancer thing... I know people say it's only a word, but the (often unintentional) implications behind the use of a word can hurt
If the child is so young to only just be able to roll over, I don't think it's quite ready to understand sarcasm!!
Sheesh, you make one innocent comment on here and people are quick as a flash ready to hang you out to dry.