It offers a slot for alternative programming such as Test Match Special and Yesterday in Parliament, as well as extending normal R4 programming to much of Western Europe.
The cricket and Yesterday in Parliament are available on DAB. Anyone wanting them can get a DAB radio or listen online.
Extending Radio 4 coverage into Europe is not part of its remit particularly as most of those apparently listening are British tax exiles living in sunnier climes.
I have not read it forensically at the time of posting but initial points that caught my eye....
Droitwich is defined as an "MF(sic) Transmitter" .....later further defined as consisting of a long wave service,Radio 4 and 3 Medium Wave services......part of the nation's critical infrastructure plan....loss of which could mean death and/or economic ruin.
Same mast and associated equipment erected there for three months,for same reason in 2001. Pictures included.
No mention spotted of transmitter powers or radiated powers.
And where would R3's FM and R5 Live's MW programmes go?
Most people and 90% of cars don't have DAB !
Yes, indeed. Though, one year Radio 3 FM did indeed carry TMS, but I can't remember why, it must have been after they flogged off 247m to Virgin, but before FiveLive in its present form had started ?
About 3 years ago it was announced R4 LW 198 has about 10 years (now 7 years) left and will then be permanently closed. The economy 7 data contract will also run out and shipping forecast replaced by Navtext and other systems.
Let's stop wasting money on a redundant system now and let the transmitter die.
Let's stop wasting money on a redundant system now and let the transmitter die.
Redundant! TMS broadcast in AM is part of our national heritage ( or so I am led to believe:))
and what is more Arqiva say this about Drotwich, quote from their planning application for a temporary replacement TX site.....
" The services provided from the Droitwich MF (SIC ) transmitter form part of the UK’s
Critical National Infrastructure, which is defined in paragraph 2.7 of the
Government’s Strategic Framework and Policy Statement, March 2010, as
‘Those infrastructure assets (physical or electronic) that are vital to the continued
delivery and integrity of the essential services upon which the UK relies, the loss
or compromise of which would lead to severe economic or social consequences
or to loss of life.’
Redundant! TMS broadcast in AM is part of our national heritage ( or so I am led to believe:))
and what is more Arqiva say this about Drotwich, quote from their planning application for a temporary replacement TX site.....
" The services provided from the Droitwich MF (SIC ) transmitter form part of the UK’s
Critical National Infrastructure, which is defined in paragraph 2.7 of the
Government’s Strategic Framework and Policy Statement, March 2010, as
‘Those infrastructure assets (physical or electronic) that are vital to the continued
delivery and integrity of the essential services upon which the UK relies, the loss
or compromise of which would lead to severe economic or social consequences
or to loss of life.’
'Heritage' is a reason for considering museum funding (alongside other competing pressures) rather than for using funding that could be used for more important broadcasting developments.
Its very hard to understand why a long wave transmitter would still be considered critical national infrastructure when the majority of the population don't have any equipment that can receive anything from it any more.
Its very hard to understand why a long wave transmitter would still be considered critical national infrastructure when the majority of the population don't have any equipment that can receive anything from it any more.
Indeed, there was an agreement to broadcast emergency information nationally in case of nuclear attack or disaster but in Feb last year the Government said: "As a result of the limitations of this system in the present day, from the falling numbers of LW receivers in homes, to the delay incurred from having to restore transmitters following an attack, the Cabinet Office has since cancelled their NAWS arrangements with the BBC." So that just leaves the electricity time switching contract which has been renewed till 2020.
'Heritage' is a reason for considering museum funding (alongside other competing pressures) rather than for using funding that could be used for more important broadcasting developments.
Its very hard to understand why a long wave transmitter would still be considered critical national infrastructure when the majority of the population don't have any equipment that can receive anything from it any more.
Sorry, but there was supposed to be a bit of irony,humour and friendly provocation in that bit of the post.....I wont behave like that again....promise;-)
Well I am inclined to agree with you in regards to Droitwich LW having a special/critical broadcasting role in disseminating information to the general public in an emergency.
Possibly, the Government think otherwise and perhaps it is the other roles of Droitwich LW that make it a critical asset?
Also is it just the LW transmitter that is in the CNI or other assets, as well, that are situated at Droitwich?
It would be interesting to know which broadcast TX sites are in CNI, there is possibly a case that they all should be.
Had a quick try to see if there is a list of sites....not found yet, will keep digging......:p
Redundant! TMS broadcast in AM is part of our national heritage ( or so I am led to believe:))
and what is more Arqiva say this about Drotwich, quote from their planning application for a temporary replacement TX site.....
" The services provided from the Droitwich MF (SIC ) transmitter form part of the UK’s
Critical National Infrastructure, which is defined in paragraph 2.7 of the
Government’s Strategic Framework and Policy Statement, March 2010, as
‘Those infrastructure assets (physical or electronic) that are vital to the continued
delivery and integrity of the essential services upon which the UK relies, the loss
or compromise of which would lead to severe economic or social consequences
or to loss of life.’
But the temporary transmitter does not seem to LF.
The critical national infrastructure could be travel news on Radio 5 and whatever others are on MF from Droitwich.
It is more likely to be a bit of spin to make it sound more important to the planning people who will not know anything technical.
I was already inclined to the position that there was some hype in the Supporting Report, Arqiva submitted in their planning application but it seems clearly to imply that unless planning permission is granted daytime services will be lost temporarily for the following radio services, Radio4 LW , Radio 5, Absolute and Talk Sport.
Quote from document, my underlining.
"During the period of maintenance works to the Droitwich transmitter, the radio
signals from the site will be switched-off during the working day, from 8am to
6pm, and then restored during the evening and overnight. This will result in the
loss of the following radio services during the day unless replacement coverage
is provided from the proposed temporary broadcast mast Chase Farm:
• BBC Radio 4 Long Wave, which provides services to most of the UK
including the internationally important Shipping Forecast to the seas
around the British Isles;
• BBC Radio 5, Absolute Radio and Talk Sport services, principally to
Birmingham, Warwickshire and wider West Midlands region. "
Therefore it is reasonable to infer from the above that Chase Farm site will be or was planned to be or was claimed to be a replacement for Radio4 LW plus 5, Absolute and Talk Sport.
The truth will be out when the site goes live but in the meantime I have e-mailed Argiva for clarification of what services,what frequencies,what hours and what ERP for each service.
When and if requested info lands in my 'in box'..... only time will tell,obviously.
There is an agreement with radio
and TV companies that if there is a
major emergency they will interrupt
programming to give public safety
advice and information about the
incident, so that when you TUNE IN
locally or nationally anywhere in the
UK you’ll get the advice you need.
It could be said all AM, FM and DAB stations might be part of the UK’s Critical National Infrastructure, Therefore R5 AM is part of it, but as MikeBr points out LW is no longer part of it?
"As a result of the limitations of this system in the present day, from the falling numbers of LW receivers in homes, to the delay incurred from having to restore transmitters following an attack, the Cabinet Office has since cancelled their NAWS arrangements with the BBC."
Campaigners fighting to keep their favourite BBC station on long wave until FM reception is improved believe they have won their case.
this time the opposition to closing LW 2020 will much be less as FM covers the UK better and DAB is being rolled out, but needs to still be handled with care.
I was already inclined to the position that there was some hype in the Supporting Report, Arqiva submitted in their planning application but it seems clearly to imply that unless planning permission is granted daytime services will be lost temporarily for the following radio services, Radio4 LW , Radio 5, Absolute and Talk Sport.
Quote from document, my underlining.
"During the period of maintenance works to the Droitwich transmitter, the radio
signals from the site will be switched-off during the working day, from 8am to
6pm, and then restored during the evening and overnight. This will result in the
loss of the following radio services during the day unless replacement coverage
is provided from the proposed temporary broadcast mast Chase Farm:
• BBC Radio 4 Long Wave, which provides services to most of the UK
including the internationally important Shipping Forecast to the seas
around the British Isles;
• BBC Radio 5, Absolute Radio and Talk Sport services, principally to
Birmingham, Warwickshire and wider West Midlands region. "
Therefore it is reasonable to infer from the above that Chase Farm site will be or was planned to be or was claimed to be a replacement for Radio4 LW plus 5, Absolute and Talk Sport.
The truth will be out when the site goes live but in the meantime I have e-mailed Argiva for clarification of what services,what frequencies,what hours and what ERP for each service.
When and if requested info lands in my 'in box'..... only time will tell,obviously.
"The site is required in order to provide ongoing medium and long wave services whilst the existing broadcast transmitter at Droitwich undergoes essential maintenance work."
I worked on TXs. All seems rather strange. They may have decided to modify the TXs to take new more available valves. It would be usual to work on one at a time as there is a parallel pair. Normal maintenance or fault finding is done that way and periods of reduced power tend to be short.
It could be said all AM, FM and DAB stations might be part of the UK’s Critical National Infrastructure, Therefore R5 AM is part of it, but as MikeBr points out LW is no longer part of it?
this time the opposition to closing LW 2020 will much be less as FM covers the UK better and DAB is being rolled out, but needs to still be handled with care.
I would think it would be easier to justify closing now with all the cuts in BBC finances. Propose some cuts in Radio 3, that will worry the chattering classes far more than BBC 3.
Whenever I have tried Radio 4 Long Wave in the car I have quickly given up, can't remember the last time i listened on Long Wave in the house. I also cannot remember anyone I know using Long Wave.
"The site is required in order to provide ongoing medium and long wave services whilst the existing broadcast transmitter at Droitwich undergoes essential maintenance work."
Well, that's what's implied, but is the mast proposed (in terms of physical size, with regards to wavelength) capable of radiating anything usable or worthwhile on 198 kHz ?
Redundant! TMS broadcast in AM is part of our national heritage ( or so I am led to believe:))
and what is more Arqiva say this about Drotwich, quote from their planning application for a temporary replacement TX site.....
" The services provided from the Droitwich MF (SIC ) transmitter form part of the UK’s
Critical National Infrastructure, which is defined in paragraph 2.7 of the
Government’s Strategic Framework and Policy Statement, March 2010, as
‘Those infrastructure assets (physical or electronic) that are vital to the continued
delivery and integrity of the essential services upon which the UK relies, the loss
or compromise of which would lead to severe economic or social consequences
or to loss of life.’
Not much use now in an emergency given that LW is available on so few radios. I doubt the younger demographic are even aware of R4 long wave.
Last time I tried it the signal in the east was much weaker than it used to be I think the power must have been reduced in recent years.
I understood that this work is being carried out on the two large masts that support the 198Khz aerial and one of the support masts which is used as a radiator for BBC R5L on 693Khz, Absolute and Talk Sport will not be affected.
Whilst the work at Droitwich is being carried out R4 on 198KHz will be switched off, with no replacement service whilst R5L will be transmitted at reduced power from the temporary site at Chase Farm near Kenilworth.
Personally I am surprised and delighted that this work is being undertaken to keep this much valued service on 198Khz on air. Its the best news I have heard for a long time. I suppose the main reason that its life is being extended is due to the almost blanket coverage of England and Wales and as a bonus good coverage of the nearer parts of Europe and the Republic of Ireland.
I understood that this work is being carried out on the two large masts that support the 198Khz aerial and one of the support masts which is used as a radiator for BBC R5L on 693Khz, Absolute and Talk Sport will not be affected.
Whilst the work at Droitwich is being carried out R4 on 198KHz will be switched off, with no replacement service whilst R5L will be transmitted at reduced power from the temporary site at Chase Farm near Kenilworth.
Personally I am surprised and delighted that this work is being undertaken to keep this much valued service on 198Khz on air. Its the best news I have heard for a long time. I suppose the main reason that its life is being extended is due to the almost blanket coverage of England and Wales and as a bonus good coverage of the nearer parts of Europe and the Republic of Ireland.
There seems to be a lot of logic in what you say.
Indeed one of the large masts supporting the LW aerial is the radiator for Radio 5 according to The Transmission Gallery @ http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/droitwich/ and Absolute and Talk Spot come from two separate shorter masts elsewhere on the site.
If you are correct,this would seem to make a bit of a nonsense of Arqiva's report submitted in support of their planning permission for The Chase Farm site.
For clarification I e-mailed Arqiva's general inquiries and had a personalised, holding acknowledgement saying my inquiry has been passed to The Radio Team.
Haven't found 198 too good in Europe ..even in the East of Ireland.
I was on the Isle of Mull, west of Scotland, last year and the 198 signal is rather poor.
on the other hand I received R4 just north of Lisbon,Portugal, quite audible after local sunset. I understand that a carrier wave of this transmission is used as a timer for central heating systems! Nearly all larger ships have sattelite navigation/weather systems so I suppose the long wave shipping bulletin is for very small fishing vessels and pleasure craft?
Comments
Most people and 90% of cars don't have DAB !
The cricket and Yesterday in Parliament are available on DAB. Anyone wanting them can get a DAB radio or listen online.
Extending Radio 4 coverage into Europe is not part of its remit particularly as most of those apparently listening are British tax exiles living in sunnier climes.
http://planningdocuments.warwickdc.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=_WARWI_DCAPR_69309
I have not read it forensically at the time of posting but initial points that caught my eye....
Droitwich is defined as an "MF(sic) Transmitter" .....later further defined as consisting of a long wave service,Radio 4 and 3 Medium Wave services......part of the nation's critical infrastructure plan....loss of which could mean death and/or economic ruin.
Same mast and associated equipment erected there for three months,for same reason in 2001. Pictures included.
No mention spotted of transmitter powers or radiated powers.
Yes, indeed. Though, one year Radio 3 FM did indeed carry TMS, but I can't remember why, it must have been after they flogged off 247m to Virgin, but before FiveLive in its present form had started ?
Well that's interesting ! I don't recall anyone knowing that back then ?
Let's stop wasting money on a redundant system now and let the transmitter die.
Redundant!
and what is more Arqiva say this about Drotwich, quote from their planning application for a temporary replacement TX site.....
" The services provided from the Droitwich MF (SIC ) transmitter form part of the UK’s
Critical National Infrastructure, which is defined in paragraph 2.7 of the
Government’s Strategic Framework and Policy Statement, March 2010, as
‘Those infrastructure assets (physical or electronic) that are vital to the continued
delivery and integrity of the essential services upon which the UK relies, the loss
or compromise of which would lead to severe economic or social consequences
or to loss of life.’
'Heritage' is a reason for considering museum funding (alongside other competing pressures) rather than for using funding that could be used for more important broadcasting developments.
Its very hard to understand why a long wave transmitter would still be considered critical national infrastructure when the majority of the population don't have any equipment that can receive anything from it any more.
Indeed, there was an agreement to broadcast emergency information nationally in case of nuclear attack or disaster but in Feb last year the Government said: "As a result of the limitations of this system in the present day, from the falling numbers of LW receivers in homes, to the delay incurred from having to restore transmitters following an attack, the Cabinet Office has since cancelled their NAWS arrangements with the BBC." So that just leaves the electricity time switching contract which has been renewed till 2020.
Sorry, but there was supposed to be a bit of irony,humour and friendly provocation in that bit of the post.....I wont behave like that again....promise;-)
Well I am inclined to agree with you in regards to Droitwich LW having a special/critical broadcasting role in disseminating information to the general public in an emergency.
Possibly, the Government think otherwise and perhaps it is the other roles of Droitwich LW that make it a critical asset?
Also is it just the LW transmitter that is in the CNI or other assets, as well, that are situated at Droitwich?
It would be interesting to know which broadcast TX sites are in CNI, there is possibly a case that they all should be.
Had a quick try to see if there is a list of sites....not found yet, will keep digging......:p
But the temporary transmitter does not seem to LF.
The critical national infrastructure could be travel news on Radio 5 and whatever others are on MF from Droitwich.
It is more likely to be a bit of spin to make it sound more important to the planning people who will not know anything technical.
Exactly what I thought - bit of hype to convince the councillors. They don't want to be responsible for putting the country at risk after all!
Quote from document, my underlining.
"During the period of maintenance works to the Droitwich transmitter, the radio
signals from the site will be switched-off during the working day, from 8am to
6pm, and then restored during the evening and overnight. This will result in the
loss of the following radio services during the day unless replacement coverage
is provided from the proposed temporary broadcast mast Chase Farm:
• BBC Radio 4 Long Wave, which provides services to most of the UK
including the internationally important Shipping Forecast to the seas
around the British Isles;
• BBC Radio 5, Absolute Radio and Talk Sport services, principally to
Birmingham, Warwickshire and wider West Midlands region. "
Therefore it is reasonable to infer from the above that Chase Farm site will be or was planned to be or was claimed to be a replacement for Radio4 LW plus 5, Absolute and Talk Sport.
The truth will be out when the site goes live but in the meantime I have e-mailed Argiva for clarification of what services,what frequencies,what hours and what ERP for each service.
When and if requested info lands in my 'in box'..... only time will tell,obviously.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_176618.pdf It could be said all AM, FM and DAB stations might be part of the UK’s Critical National Infrastructure, Therefore R5 AM is part of it, but as MikeBr points out LW is no longer part of it? Also 198 will be closed around 2020. It could be closed sooner but the last time in 1992 it was attempted to remove R4 from long wave there was a lot of opposition,
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/radio-4-fans-claim-victory-1558092.html
this time the opposition to closing LW 2020 will much be less as FM covers the UK better and DAB is being rolled out, but needs to still be handled with care.
"The site is required in order to provide ongoing medium and long wave services whilst the existing broadcast transmitter at Droitwich undergoes essential maintenance work."
From http://planningdocuments.warwickdc.gov.uk/online-applications/files/A7E9BEF6D855F7D9D74A7FB0AEA17122/pdf/W_13_1556-Delegated_Report-672560.pdf
So it will be LW as well by the sound of it.
I would think it would be easier to justify closing now with all the cuts in BBC finances. Propose some cuts in Radio 3, that will worry the chattering classes far more than BBC 3.
Whenever I have tried Radio 4 Long Wave in the car I have quickly given up, can't remember the last time i listened on Long Wave in the house. I also cannot remember anyone I know using Long Wave.
Well, that's what's implied, but is the mast proposed (in terms of physical size, with regards to wavelength) capable of radiating anything usable or worthwhile on 198 kHz ?
Not much use now in an emergency given that LW is available on so few radios. I doubt the younger demographic are even aware of R4 long wave.
Last time I tried it the signal in the east was much weaker than it used to be I think the power must have been reduced in recent years.
Whilst the work at Droitwich is being carried out R4 on 198KHz will be switched off, with no replacement service whilst R5L will be transmitted at reduced power from the temporary site at Chase Farm near Kenilworth.
Personally I am surprised and delighted that this work is being undertaken to keep this much valued service on 198Khz on air. Its the best news I have heard for a long time. I suppose the main reason that its life is being extended is due to the almost blanket coverage of England and Wales and as a bonus good coverage of the nearer parts of Europe and the Republic of Ireland.
There seems to be a lot of logic in what you say.
Indeed one of the large masts supporting the LW aerial is the radiator for Radio 5 according to The Transmission Gallery @ http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/droitwich/ and Absolute and Talk Spot come from two separate shorter masts elsewhere on the site.
If you are correct,this would seem to make a bit of a nonsense of Arqiva's report submitted in support of their planning permission for The Chase Farm site.
For clarification I e-mailed Arqiva's general inquiries and had a personalised, holding acknowledgement saying my inquiry has been passed to The Radio Team.
I was on the Isle of Mull, west of Scotland, last year and the 198 signal is rather poor.
on the other hand I received R4 just north of Lisbon,Portugal, quite audible after local sunset. I understand that a carrier wave of this transmission is used as a timer for central heating systems! Nearly all larger ships have sattelite navigation/weather systems so I suppose the long wave shipping bulletin is for very small fishing vessels and pleasure craft?