I believe the problem is that no one know how all the old (working) receivers will cope when they see an MPEG4 video in the transport stream.
Probably true. If it wasn't in the spec, who knows how old receivers will handle it. It's likely that some will merely not add the channel to the EPG, some will display an error message and some will crash.
Probably true. If it wasn't in the spec, who knows how old receivers will handle it. It's likely that some will merely not add the channel to the EPG, some will display an error message and some will crash.
so are OFCOM afraid that some peoples equipment would cash and there would be loads of complaints?
so are OFCOM afraid that some peoples equipment would cash and there would be loads of complaints?
Actually I think it was more the issue of it causing confusion - HD on a DVB-T mux would show up in the EPG, and just give a blank screen (or crash, as said) for most viewers - causing unnecessary complaints and support calls from people not aware they needed a new receiver for these.
Anyway, the DTT Reference Parameters just says "with prior consent from Ofcom", so they must have changed it whilst I wasn't looking (probably when they agreed the Picnic thing)
Actually I think it was more the issue of it causing confusion - HD on a DVB-T mux would show up in the EPG, and just give a blank screen (or crash, as said) for most viewers - causing unnecessary complaints and support calls from people not aware they needed a new receiver for these.
Anyway, the DTT Reference Parameters just says "with prior consent from Ofcom", so they must have changed it whilst I wasn't looking (probably when they agreed the Picnic thing)
Well I suppose that it would be ok if it was just a blank screen (with maybe a holding card loading if the channel doesnt work), like HD channels do on a Sky SD box.
interesting that document says 704*576 is the minimum quallifying res for SD!
Well I suppose that it would be ok if it was just a blank screen (with maybe a holding card loading if the channel doesnt work), like HD channels do on a Sky SD box.
It wouldn't have a holding card, unless the box indentified that it was an HD service (which nbo boxes would have been aware of at the time). More likely it'd be a completely blank screen or a "no service" message.
interesting that document says 704*576 is the minimum quallifying res for SD!
No, that's the minimum SD resolution for "qualifying services", where qualifying services are the PSB channels (all BBC channels, ITV, C4, C5, S4C in Wales and the new local channels when they are launched)
Note that S4C has been broadcasting in 3/4 res recently, despite that.
It wouldn't have a holding card, unless the box indentified that it was an HD service (which nbo boxes would have been aware of at the time). More likely it'd be a completely blank screen or a "no service" message.
No, that's the minimum SD resolution for "qualifying services", where qualifying services are the PSB channels (all BBC channels, ITV, C4, C5, S4C in Wales and the new local channels when they are launched)
Note that S4C has been broadcasting in 3/4 res recently, despite that.
oh so the minimum of 704*576 is for PSB only? which is why the com MUXs can get away with 544*576 I guess?
Im thinking with S4C that they are using the space that E4 use in England, Scotland and NI so I guess thats only been a 3/4 channel untill recent changes to the encoders on the MUX, so they just had to use the space?
oh so the minimum of 704*576 is for PSB only? which is why the com MUXs can get away with 544*576 I guess?
Yes.
Im thinking with S4C that they are using the space that E4 use in England, Scotland and NI so I guess thats only been a 3/4 channel untill recent changes to the encoders on the MUX, so they just had to use the space?
Probably D3&4 made excuses on technical grounds so Ofcom wouldn't take action.
So anyone know what the situation with Channel 5 HD coming to freeview is? Surely they need to consider this now otherwise they´ll get left behind...
I imagine one of two things will happen. Either they'll be scared now of loosing EPG slot 105 to something like Film4 or E4 and that will outweigh their backhanders from Sky and they'll finally launch it. Or they'll complain enough to the powers that be and get them to reserve slot 105 for future use, and then they'll sit back and laugh again with no intention of actually using it.
I imagine one of two things will happen. Either they'll be scared now of loosing EPG slot 105 to something like Film4 or E4 and that will outweigh their backhanders from Sky and they'll finally launch it. Or they'll complain enough to the powers that be and get them to reserve slot 105 for future use, and then they'll sit back and laugh again with no intention of actually using it.
Now there is PSB HD prominance been surgested, C5 might be left out if it doesnt make its C5 HD FTA on all platforms. We could end up with
1 BBC 1 HD
2 BBC 2 HD
3 ITV/STV/UTV HD
4 Channel 4 HD
5 Channel 5 (still in SD)
this is if C5 drag their heals, so its now within their best interest to get C5 HD FTA.
The thing with HD prominence is that it's never going to happen until you can add regional settings to the broadcasts, whether that be news or advertising, and that still looks a long way off right now for broadcast over the air tv.
Channel 5 have already lost the fifth stream on the BBC HD mux, so even if they launch an HD version in the next couple of years, their coverage would be severely limited to being on a temporary HD mux.
The thing with HD prominence is that it's never going to happen until you can add regional settings to the broadcasts, whether that be news or advertising, and that still looks a long way off right now for broadcast over the air tv.
Channel 5 have already lost the fifth stream on the BBC HD mux, so even if they launch an HD version in the next couple of years, their coverage would be severely limited to being on a temporary HD mux.
I know it wont happen till there is regional HD PSB channels, but its something that C5 might want to think about. The BBC will most likely be the first with HD prominance though as they are already thinking about BBC 1 HD English reagions now (with Trust aproval though of course!), I think C4 or ITV will follow, C4 being the most likely, as they only have 4 or 6 ad regions to do as apposed to ITVs many regions, but yes we are talking years down the line but it will happen.
What is More important than enesursing that the HD Flavours are PSB with Prominence
is that it point out that there will be discovery not just the Grid EPG.
It also points out issues to do with non through the air means of delivery
EPG and the regulation etc of internet delivery - including Access services!
Bear in mind that the current Comms act is ten years old - and we may get an new Act next year.
... so it will need to last for a long time Including probably over the 700MHz/ DVB-T2 PSB HD only etc reorganizations
Also I note this is not suggesting that the DTT EPG comes within the regulation similar to Sect 310 of the Current Act
What is More important than enesursing that the HD Flavours are PSB with Prominence
is that it point out that there will be discovery not just the Grid EPG.
It also points out issues to do with non through the air means of delivery
EPG and the regulation etc of internet delivery - including Access services!
Bear in mind that the current Comms act is ten years old - and we may get an new Act next year.
... so it will need to last for a long time Including probably over the 700MHz/ DVB-T2 PSB HD only etc reorganizations
Also I note this is not suggesting that the DTT EPG comes within the regulation similar to Sect 310 of the Current Act
Well I did read the parts concerning these issues and yes I agree its about preserving the PSB prominance in any form and making sure they are availible on all platforms at no cost to ether the PSBs or the platforms! (another issuse I know but I think its all related!)
I think you are right that we will see a new Comms Act next year and it does make sense that it needs to be very future proof!
When you are talking about the 700MHz/ DVB-T2 PSB HD only, do you mean what the govenment will do with the 700MHz band, about mandating DVB-T2 and about whether the PSBs should be HD only?
So anyone know what the situation with Channel 5 HD coming to freeview is? Surely they need to consider this now otherwise they´ll get left behind...
Channel 5 "remain committed to launching Chanel 5 HD on the DTT platform within the next few years." source. Doesn't sound like they are in any hurry to secure an HD slot.
When you are talking about the 700MHz/ DVB-T2 PSB HD only, do you mean what the government will do with the 700MHz band, about mandating DVB-T2 and about whether the PSBs should be HD only?
These are events which the government has some input ..
BUT the Publicly owned PSB are driving change in a sensible direction.
the Most important thing is say by the end of the year (at least) BIS to only Tick Freeview HD (+) devices.
Re Ch5 - they will find that the cost of being on the temporary muxes is considerably less than PSB 3 -
but are they really wanting to go HD or be a PSB ...when all PSB muxes are HD
The BBC has all its programmes delivered in HD
It's playout contractor is making another two channels HD playout
It will be using one slot which it has not been able to rent to ch 5 for the best part of three year.
And it is buying a two slots on the uk cheapest mux ....
( and on DSAT just using space it had planned)
If you think that HD production was expensive ..
One broadcaster considered an OFT reference as the BBC was using its market power
to drive down the price of HD material.....
As far as playout goes it may not be costing the BBC any more. ..
Because there is no need to provide and track SD versions ....
The BBC has all its programmes delivered in HD
It's playout contractor is making another two channels HD playout
It will be using one slot which it has not been able to rent to ch 5 for the best part of three year.
And it is buying a two slots on the uk cheapest mux ....
( and on DSAT just using space it had planned)
If you think that HD production was expensive ..
One broadcaster considered an OFT reference as the BBC was using its market power
to drive down the price of HD material.....
As far as playout goes it may not be costing the BBC any more. ..
Because there is no need to provide and track SD versions ....
so except for BBC Parliament and BBC Alba the BBC will esentually be an all HD world? and RedBee are the ones would will derive SD simulcasts of all the BBCs HD channels?
ALL BBC delivery has been HD for over Two years ( except sport until lat year = Salford and news = NBH this year )
And much before this was HD ... Drama getting on for four years now
The regions and all core infrastructure tends to be SD of course ,
And there is a lot of that !!!!!!
So red bee deliver SD and HD to ATOS for code and Mux ...
Comments
so are OFCOM afraid that some peoples equipment would cash and there would be loads of complaints?
Actually I think it was more the issue of it causing confusion - HD on a DVB-T mux would show up in the EPG, and just give a blank screen (or crash, as said) for most viewers - causing unnecessary complaints and support calls from people not aware they needed a new receiver for these.
Anyway, the DTT Reference Parameters just says "with prior consent from Ofcom", so they must have changed it whilst I wasn't looking (probably when they agreed the Picnic thing)
Well I suppose that it would be ok if it was just a blank screen (with maybe a holding card loading if the channel doesnt work), like HD channels do on a Sky SD box.
interesting that document says 704*576 is the minimum quallifying res for SD!
It wouldn't have a holding card, unless the box indentified that it was an HD service (which nbo boxes would have been aware of at the time). More likely it'd be a completely blank screen or a "no service" message.
No, that's the minimum SD resolution for "qualifying services", where qualifying services are the PSB channels (all BBC channels, ITV, C4, C5, S4C in Wales and the new local channels when they are launched)
Note that S4C has been broadcasting in 3/4 res recently, despite that.
oh so the minimum of 704*576 is for PSB only? which is why the com MUXs can get away with 544*576 I guess?
Im thinking with S4C that they are using the space that E4 use in England, Scotland and NI so I guess thats only been a 3/4 channel untill recent changes to the encoders on the MUX, so they just had to use the space?
Yes.
Probably D3&4 made excuses on technical grounds so Ofcom wouldn't take action.
I imagine one of two things will happen. Either they'll be scared now of loosing EPG slot 105 to something like Film4 or E4 and that will outweigh their backhanders from Sky and they'll finally launch it. Or they'll complain enough to the powers that be and get them to reserve slot 105 for future use, and then they'll sit back and laugh again with no intention of actually using it.
Now there is PSB HD prominance been surgested, C5 might be left out if it doesnt make its C5 HD FTA on all platforms. We could end up with
1 BBC 1 HD
2 BBC 2 HD
3 ITV/STV/UTV HD
4 Channel 4 HD
5 Channel 5 (still in SD)
this is if C5 drag their heals, so its now within their best interest to get C5 HD FTA.
Channel 5 have already lost the fifth stream on the BBC HD mux, so even if they launch an HD version in the next couple of years, their coverage would be severely limited to being on a temporary HD mux.
I know it wont happen till there is regional HD PSB channels, but its something that C5 might want to think about. The BBC will most likely be the first with HD prominance though as they are already thinking about BBC 1 HD English reagions now (with Trust aproval though of course!), I think C4 or ITV will follow, C4 being the most likely, as they only have 4 or 6 ad regions to do as apposed to ITVs many regions, but yes we are talking years down the line but it will happen.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/225783/Connectivity_Content_and_Consumers_2013.pdf
What is More important than enesursing that the HD Flavours are PSB with Prominence
is that it point out that there will be discovery not just the Grid EPG.
It also points out issues to do with non through the air means of delivery
EPG and the regulation etc of internet delivery - including Access services!
Bear in mind that the current Comms act is ten years old - and we may get an new Act next year.
... so it will need to last for a long time Including probably over the 700MHz/ DVB-T2 PSB HD only etc reorganizations
Also I note this is not suggesting that the DTT EPG comes within the regulation similar to Sect 310 of the Current Act
Well I did read the parts concerning these issues and yes I agree its about preserving the PSB prominance in any form and making sure they are availible on all platforms at no cost to ether the PSBs or the platforms! (another issuse I know but I think its all related!)
I think you are right that we will see a new Comms Act next year and it does make sense that it needs to be very future proof!
When you are talking about the 700MHz/ DVB-T2 PSB HD only, do you mean what the govenment will do with the 700MHz band, about mandating DVB-T2 and about whether the PSBs should be HD only?
These are events which the government has some input ..
BUT the Publicly owned PSB are driving change in a sensible direction.
the Most important thing is say by the end of the year (at least) BIS to only Tick Freeview HD (+) devices.
Re Ch5 - they will find that the cost of being on the temporary muxes is considerably less than PSB 3 -
but are they really wanting to go HD or be a PSB ...when all PSB muxes are HD
I thought the BBC had no money. Seems they can find money for HD channels but not for decent programming.
Still we can watch crap in HD I suppose.
It's playout contractor is making another two channels HD playout
It will be using one slot which it has not been able to rent to ch 5 for the best part of three year.
And it is buying a two slots on the uk cheapest mux ....
( and on DSAT just using space it had planned)
If you think that HD production was expensive ..
One broadcaster considered an OFT reference as the BBC was using its market power
to drive down the price of HD material.....
As far as playout goes it may not be costing the BBC any more. ..
Because there is no need to provide and track SD versions ....
so except for BBC Parliament and BBC Alba the BBC will esentually be an all HD world? and RedBee are the ones would will derive SD simulcasts of all the BBCs HD channels?
And much before this was HD ... Drama getting on for four years now
The regions and all core infrastructure tends to be SD of course ,
And there is a lot of that !!!!!!
So red bee deliver SD and HD to ATOS for code and Mux ...