So this freedom only works one way? There's no freedom of speech for those who don't like what he's doing?
Not wearing a poppy is not "freedom of speech" its simply not doing something. He is passive. He is not vocally campaigning against the poppy.
Attacking him for not wearing it is not a demonstration of freedom of speech unless you are suggesting attacking anyone for anything verbally is simply exercising "freedom of speech"?
Not wearing a poppy is not "freedom of speech" its simply not doing something. He is passive. He is not vocally campaigning against the poppy.
Attacking him for not wearing it is not a demonstration of freedom of speech unless you are suggesting attacking anyone for anything verbally is simply exercising "freedom of speech"?
Starting to remind me of last week's South Park where they were citicised for wearing wristbands, then for not removing them, then for not wearing them, then for wearing the wrong ones etc.
People have the right to criticise other people for not wearing ties. I'm not saying it's a view I agree with. But it's certainly not a view that should be banned.
People have the right to criticise other people for not wearing ties. I'm not saying it's a view I agree with. But it's certainly not a view that should be banned.
"You're a c***" because you aren't wearing a tie would be ok then?
O'Shea was brought up in the south, McClean in Derry. Are you aware of the differences between the two upbringings or deliberately adding a red herring?
McClean is a nationalist, Derry is a nationalist city. He would have been brought up as a nationalist/republican.
John O'Shea is from Waterford and therefore is probably less of a nationalist than a fellow Sunderland player who was born in the UK!
Not sure whether your intent was to back up my point but you have just done so.
An Englishman and an Irishman playing for Sunderland have no identity problem in relation to their nationality.
An Irishman born in Derry should not have a qualms about his identity either as it is made clear by the British and Irish governments they are free to choose either nationality.
The only problem is that a player from Derry may have had relatives shot dead by an army he is now being asked to commemorate. Perhaps it is just the sour taste left on his community that has forced him into taking this stance.
You have no right to make him wear one. If you look into his reasons for not wearing one and then still feel able to criticise him then - and only then - is your point worth listening to.
Are you surprised that he doesn't want to pay respects to the black and tans and such......
First and foremost, I am an Englishman. I have no problem admitting that actions by the army in NI will have a lasting legacy. The actions of the PIRA will leave a lasting legacy for many others.
If those from the North were forced to wear something in remembrance of the Easter Rising in 1916 and refused to do so how would we feel about it.
We're all good preaching about what people fought and died for but are no better than dictators when the 'Poppy Card' is played.
It does not matter whether someone is from Derry, Dublin, London, Glasgow or anywhere else. If you don't want to wear a red poppy or don't believe in what it stands for then that is fine. If a Scottish, welsh or English player doesn't wear one they deserve no criticism just like McClean doesn't.
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So this freedom only works one way? There's no freedom of speech for those who don't like what he's doing?
What has it got to do with them? Does it affect them? It's his decision and his alone.
They have the right to express a view.
And if you don't like their view then you have the right to express your view about it....
Not wearing a poppy is not "freedom of speech" its simply not doing something. He is passive. He is not vocally campaigning against the poppy.
Attacking him for not wearing it is not a demonstration of freedom of speech unless you are suggesting attacking anyone for anything verbally is simply exercising "freedom of speech"?
That work with racism does it?
"Im just expressing my view"?
Nope.
People have the right to criticise other people.
EDIT: never mind.
Everyone has the right to express a view respectfully. The kind of abuse he's been getting on Twitter is vile.
On what basis and on what terms do they have that right?
People have the right to criticise other people for not wearing ties. I'm not saying it's a view I agree with. But it's certainly not a view that should be banned.
"You're a c***" because you aren't wearing a tie would be ok then?
Wouldn't bother me. But if people object to swear words etc, fair enough. Criticism should be allowed though.
Erm, that has nothing to do with swear words?!
There is no value in this going any further. I do see the initial point you're making though to be fair.
Why are you copying my post on page one?
McClean is a nationalist, Derry is a nationalist city. He would have been brought up as a nationalist/republican.
John O'Shea is from Waterford and therefore is probably less of a nationalist than a fellow Sunderland player who was born in the UK!
Man doesn't wear a poppy not exactly news is it?
Not sure whether your intent was to back up my point but you have just done so.
An Englishman and an Irishman playing for Sunderland have no identity problem in relation to their nationality.
An Irishman born in Derry should not have a qualms about his identity either as it is made clear by the British and Irish governments they are free to choose either nationality.
The only problem is that a player from Derry may have had relatives shot dead by an army he is now being asked to commemorate. Perhaps it is just the sour taste left on his community that has forced him into taking this stance.
You have no right to make him wear one. If you look into his reasons for not wearing one and then still feel able to criticise him then - and only then - is your point worth listening to.
Are you surprised that he doesn't want to pay respects to the black and tans and such......
First and foremost, I am an Englishman. I have no problem admitting that actions by the army in NI will have a lasting legacy. The actions of the PIRA will leave a lasting legacy for many others.
If those from the North were forced to wear something in remembrance of the Easter Rising in 1916 and refused to do so how would we feel about it.
We're all good preaching about what people fought and died for but are no better than dictators when the 'Poppy Card' is played.
Live and let live.