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Utopia, C4&HD, 10pm, 15-22-29 Jan 5-12 Feb

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    GatehouseGatehouse Posts: 486
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    I found that whole scene suspicious. I'd always had an uneasy feeling about Milner but that scene cemented it for me. She seemed ready for their arrival - almost in anticipation and feigning surprise. I thought it could be bad acting but, hey, it's Geraldine James so that ain't likely!

    The darkened room and oxygen tent all seemed a bit too contrived and out-of-place for a busy MI5 agent. We might get to find out more about him in series 2 - PLEASE!!!

    I reckon it was just some random kid-she wouldn't have a child, it would make her vulnerable, unless she's Mrs Rabbit and there is also a Mr Rabbit (Christ, no thanks...one's enough.)

    But she was quite superb throughout, it took a great performance to keep her away from the suspects. Agreed the scene with her son was key-she was looking like a deffo baddie until that. When if you think about it, if she'd been Network, of course it was obvious she could have set that up! But we wonderfully distracted with all the other twists-and James Fox brilliant as a decoy for us as much as the gang. As was Rae as Letts before hand.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,200
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    Gatehouse wrote: »
    Do we think Wilson is still alive?

    I do hope so - for series 2 - PLEASE! Such a great character, (a bit shidty) brilliantly played - where all the others were a bit rubbish ;)
    Gatehouse wrote: »
    That alone is enough for a second series potentially (there's plenty of other possible lines. Arby going off on another "Where is Jessica Hyde" for good is another!).

    We could have spin off series like Jessica's Run and Arby's Limp
    Gatehouse wrote: »
    But equally Milner's final line was devastating enough to be the finale. Bad Guys Win (unless you're one of the freaks like Wilson and Letts who think they were the good guys, of course!).

    Isn't it good when good guys don't wear white hats and bad guys are so good coz they think they're so far beyond redemption? :D
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    jendejende Posts: 21,432
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    Gatehouse wrote: »
    It was her who told them that bed-time tale, too-although Jessica had obviously been pre-loaded with that before the series (a prequel could be good!). I did say at the time that it seemed a bit hard to believe, but I swallowed the set-up with her "dying son" and stopped suspecting her.


    Do we think Wilson is still alive? He would have surely seen Milner amongst the photo of the meeting and deliberately not revealed it to the gang, so is-if alive-the only person other than Jessica who knows Milner's identity.


    That alone is enough for a second series potentially (there's plenty of other possible lines. Arby going off on another "Where is Jessica Hyde" for good is another!). But equally Milner's final line was devastating enough to be the finale. Bad Guys Win (unless you're one of the freaks like Wilson and Letts who think they were the good guys, of course!).

    Well he had his eye gourged out and stabbed himself and he survived, so maybe another stab wound wouldn't kill him off!! They did leave him alive, so yes, there is def potential there!

    Plus of course as you say there is the Arby line, the what happens next with Jessica line and even where did Becca go and how is she line. Lots of great bits they can work with.

    Although one of the pleasing things I did like about this was it was concluded well. So even if there is no more, you feel you got a good ending even if the baddies won!
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    VicsMumVicsMum Posts: 5,666
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    You see? You write it off and then you just can't help yourself speculating ;)

    I can't help it, lol
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    T.K.T.K. Posts: 19,502
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    From what I can gather, they didn't have Janus and so tried to create their own version, but they weren't sure whether it would work or not.

    I was expecting the Mr Rabbit twist. The man Grant killed was too obvious.

    I don't think the manuscript was as useless as Milner made it out to be. It did have the Janus molecule hidden amongst the pictures, which maybe she didn't know about.

    Indeed. I think the manuscript was the Network's backup plan if they couldn't get hold of Jessica, hence why the Assistant was interrogating Grant for the Janus molecular digits (or whatever) as he had memorised the comic. But of course, Milner counted on Jessica to come to her with the manuscript, but by that time, the manuscript had no use to the Network anymore as they finally had now captured Jessica (Janus carrier).
    Sorry, you obviously know all this, I'm just thinking out loud and rambling :o:).
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,200
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    Gatehouse wrote: »
    I reckon it was just some random kid-she wouldn't have a child, it would make her vulnerable, unless she's Mrs Rabbit and there is also a Mr Rabbit (Christ, no thanks...one's enough.)

    My God! You know what happens when Mr and Mrs Rabbit get together :eek::eek::eek::eek:
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    GatehouseGatehouse Posts: 486
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    VicsMum wrote: »
    IF there's a second series I'd dare suggesting Milner is Jessica's birth mother.

    HELL yeah, you could just feel the bitter jealousy! And it makes more sense of her name.
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    T.K.T.K. Posts: 19,502
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    But even if it was a tenth as good it would still be a hundred times more interesting than the majority of stuff on the box. Even Charlie Brooker let me down last night but it was still better than any episode of Midsomer Murders, Outlasts or CSI Penge! :yawn:

    This x100. So true IMO :cool:.
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    T.K.T.K. Posts: 19,502
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    VicsMum wrote: »
    I can't help it, lol

    It's okay, VicsMum, you're a Utopia addict... like the rest of us :D:).

    We should open a Utopiaholics Anonymous club :cool:.
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    VicsMumVicsMum Posts: 5,666
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    Yeah, I am, you're right! :p

    Guys, read the Guardian blog, it's good reading.
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    jendejende Posts: 21,432
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    T.K. Mazin wrote: »
    Indeed. I think the manuscript was the Network's backup plan if they couldn't get hold of Jessica, hence why the Assistant was interrogating Grant for the Janus molecular digits (or whatever) as he had memorised the comic. But of course, Milner counted on Jessica to come to her with the manuscript, but by that time, the manuscript had no use to the Network anymore as they finally had now captured Jessica (Janus carrier).
    Sorry, you obviously know all this, I'm just thinking out loud and rambling :o:).

    I do quite like it when people ramble as it makes me think that I did indeed get what's going on! Sometimes I do question what I think!
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    JohnrJohnr Posts: 3,175
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    Hint of Arby return / Series 2 :

    At the end of the credits there is a sound clip of him (from the first episode I think) of him saying "Don't put the gas away yet" :D
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    GatehouseGatehouse Posts: 486
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    jende wrote: »
    Well he had his eye gourged out and stabbed himself and he survived, so maybe another stab wound wouldn't kill him off!! They did leave him alive, so yes, there is def potential there!

    Plus of course as you say there is the Arby line, the what happens next with Jessica line and even where did Becca go and how is she line. Lots of great bits they can work with.

    Although one of the pleasing things I did like about this was it was concluded well. So even if there is no more, you feel you got a good ending even if the baddies won!


    How did he put it? Something like "I'm OK..just a bit stabbed" :D

    Well, Becky's off to hunt down Donaldson-who we already know is matey with Milner, despite them sharing zero screentime whatsever.

    Arby's "done a Gazza" and gone fishing with some beers. Once he's got it out of his system, he's going to be on a mission of revenge against anyone left who made him what he was. Like Mrs Rabbit. If you think he's still a bad guy, then he hooks up with Letts-the only person who showed him any compassion at all.


    Ian & Grant are on a mission to track down Becky-the very next scene could be them trying to work out what train she'd just left on (wouldn't be hard). She's obviously decided that now the Deels has kicked in, she doesn't want to put a relationship-and Ian-through that. But Ian is nothing if not naive and idealistic, he won't give up.


    Grant in turn will want to see Alice again, poor chap's fallen hook, line and sinker. There's potential for an epic love story against the odds lasting for a good 4 or 5 series there!


    Milner will want to extract the perfect Janus out of Jessica, will succeed, then it's a matter of if Jessica can be rescued-and fight back and stop the launch. If we get a series two, there simply has to be a scene where Arby and her wipe out a lot of bad guys!
    Milner will also be "mopping up", ahem..so none of the gang are safe. I assume that some of them will keep in touch with her-possibly Becky first, seeking help.


    After they fail to stop the launch in Series 2, Season 3 sees a terrible Heroes/Lost type jumping of the shark as the scene is switched to...the United States, in a co-produced drama with American TV! Nooooooooooooooo!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,200
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    Johnr wrote: »
    Hint of Arby return / Series 2 :

    At the end of the credits there is a sound clip of him (from the first episode I think) of him saying "Don't put the gas away yet" :D

    Arby was the star character of the series and, boy, did I yearn for him to pop up at some point in the finale. He did leave it wuite late! :D
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    Agent FAgent F Posts: 40,288
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    They have got to bring this back for a second series. Seriously good TV.
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    GatehouseGatehouse Posts: 486
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    jende wrote: »
    I do quite like it when people ramble as it makes me think that I did indeed get what's going on! Sometimes I do question what I think!

    Well, there's nothing wrong with questioning what you think; self analysis keeps the soul alive! Cheaper than a shrink, too. I actually think watching Utopia has increased my productivity at work by at least 10%. That's intelligent telly for yer, like any well-done art, it's good for the brain ;)


    And yes I call it art, Lynch considers himself an artist and this pressed all the same multi-sensory buttons.
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    T.K.T.K. Posts: 19,502
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    jende wrote: »
    I do quite like it when people ramble as it makes me think that I did indeed get what's going on! Sometimes I do question what I think!

    Haha, yeah, same here :D.

    So what were your favourite moments/scenes of the series? :)
    I have to say, I have quite a lot :o.
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    GatehouseGatehouse Posts: 486
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    T.K. Mazin wrote: »
    Haha, yeah, same here :D.

    So what were your favourite moments/scenes of the series? :)
    I have to say, I have quite a lot :o.


    Still the "seatbelt" scene and the "my god, you set all this up before?" moment as Jessica realises that Arby is not all that she thought he was..finished off with her "it can't be.." moment after he tells her he's her brother.


    Arby blinking blindly in disbelief when he has Jessica at gun point in Alices house before staggering away with his matter-of-fact "where is Jessica Hyde".


    Every single moment Lee was on the screen.


    The first "twa*" scene between Alice and Grant. Bit different to how she said it in Ep6, but that almost signalled them picking up with their normal relationship..so they thought, sigh..


    Arby staggering down the grass verge as the hearse goes by, almost with a tear..


    The King Richard III/Horrible Histories bloke interviewing Becky for her PHD funding.


    Alice blowing the hair out of her eyes before blowing away Monroe.


    Letts line to Dugdale in Ep2 about "trying for a lickle baby?" :cool:


    Jessica's hugging of Grant post-Assistant slaying. Genuine warmth (is she grooming him? :eek:)


    Donaldson's "well, I do like cocaine and hookers...they just didn't have to tell everybody about it". And his "I have heart disease" met with Dugdale's "well...you should eat healthier, then!"


    Dugdale's taking out of Anya was pretty ace-I did actually shout "go on Dugdale, kill her!" at the telly, followed by "YES!!!". He didn't get to kill Geoff (Series 2, please), but that was still pretty cool.


    One for the re-watchers: check out "Anya" as she's plotting her move to jump Ian, she does lots of obvious "hmm, what to do, what to do...."faces! :D
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    jendejende Posts: 21,432
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    T.K. Mazin wrote: »
    Haha, yeah, same here :D.

    So what were your favourite moments/scenes of the series? :)
    I have to say, I have quite a lot :o.

    Well there's nothing worse when I start prattling on about something and then reaslise how I very much missed the point :o:D

    I find it really hard to pick individual bits really. I think to me it had so much going on, so many different strands, yet all were interesting and kept you wondering. To me, that is excellent writing if you can have something that at first doesn't make sense, but watches are eager to see more. I also felt we wasn't spoon fed it, but they gave enough for us to get what was going on.

    The Anya bit was a total surprise, I never suspected her at all. Everyone else yes, but not her. I also liked the civil service bloke and was glad he wasn't a real baddie! I'm not normally one for over soppys, but as soon as he met Alice, I hoped she would go with him. They didn't make it soppy though so I was alright! I think the twists at the end to me were the best part. A brilliant way to end it with a double twist, neither I expected. That was a real 'noooooo' moment!

    I also found it interesting they took a cold bloodied killer Arby and made him someone you could feel sympathy for. It felt all wrong, but I couldn't help thinking he got a raw deal!

    I also thought all the characters were really well done with excellent acting by all. Especially Jessica who's cold detachment was spot on.

    I think it does what British drama often can do if they put their mind to it, show a world that could realistically be real. i.e no OTT, no 'mwah ha ha ha ha' villains. To me it was spot on.

    Ok will stop now before I gush:D
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    jendejende Posts: 21,432
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    Gatehouse wrote: »
    Still the "seatbelt" scene and the "my god, you set all this up before?" moment as Jessica realises that Arby is not all that she thought he was..finished off with her "it can't be.." moment after he tells her he's her brother.


    Arby blinking blindly in disbelief when he has Jessica at gun point in Alices house before staggering away with his matter-of-fact "where is Jessica Hyde".


    Every single moment Lee was on the screen.


    The first "twa*" scene between Alice and Grant. Bit different to how she said it in Ep6, but that almost signalled them picking up with their normal relationship..so they thought, sigh..


    Arby staggering down the grass verge as the hearse goes by, almost with a tear..


    The King Richard III/Horrible Histories bloke interviewing Becky for her PHD funding.


    Alice blowing the hair out of her eyes before blowing away Monroe.


    Letts line to Dugdale in Ep2 about "trying for a lickle baby?" :cool:


    Jessica's hugging of Grant post-Assistant slaying. Genuine warmth (is she grooming him? :eek:)


    Donaldson's "well, I do like cocaine and hookers...they just didn't have to tell everybody about it". And his "I have heart disease" met with Dugdale's "well...you should eat healthier, then!"


    Dugdale's taking out of Anya was pretty ace-I did actually shout "go on Dugdale, kill her!" at the telly, followed by "YES!!!". He didn't get to kill Geoff (Series 2, please), but that was still pretty cool.


    One for the re-watchers: check out "Anya" as she's plotting her move to jump Ian, she does lots of obvious "hmm, what to do, what to do...."faces! :D

    Blimey yes - I sooo YES'd too at Dugdale taking Anya out, that was pretty nifty! Had a bit of a soft spot for Dugdale anyway, you know in a kind of pervy way, but of course I will deny this manically and pretend I was intellectually stimulated by him :o:p

    His line re eatting healthier did make me smile!

    I also thought the way Wilson was a complete believe in every conspiracy type character, but was the one in the end who thought they should go ahead. I liked the way they gentle moved his viewpoint, it wasn't sudden or drastic, just very gradual and believable. At the beginning, never thought he would've been the one giving them the thumbs up.

    I also like they kept Ian as a constant. I think with something like this, you do end up suspecting everyone, but to me, he was the one who really didn't have a clue and was thrown into it. I felt safe trusting him, which is nice!
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    AlrightmateAlrightmate Posts: 73,120
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    InTheLoop wrote: »
    Wait there was no point of the manuscript apart from for Jessica to eventually bring it to Milner capturing Jessica?
    Then what was the point of Arby!?

    Well at the start of the series he kept asking people where Jessica Hyde is. So I presume just to get her to Milner.
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    jendejende Posts: 21,432
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    Well at the start of the series he kept asking people where Jessica Hyde is. So I presume just to get her to Milner.

    I thought with Arby, he was meant to capture Jessica, but he had his own agenda. He wanted to find her because she was his sister and thus the taking her to the place where he lived as a kid, telling her all about their dad and telling her not to read the manuscript. Because didn't one of them say 'he let her go' and seemed a little concerned about that. To me him finding Jessica was personal and not to do with what they wanted. But I could be wrong!
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    AlrightmateAlrightmate Posts: 73,120
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    jende wrote: »
    I thought with Arby, he was meant to capture Jessica, but he had his own agenda. He wanted to find her because she was his sister and thus the taking her to the place where he lived as a kid, telling her all about their dad and telling her not to read the manuscript. Because didn't one of them say 'he let her go' and seemed a little concerned about that. To me him finding Jessica was personal and not to do with what they wanted. But I could be wrong!

    I got the feeling that Arby only came to realise that Jessica was his sister later on in the story after which his motivation and intent changed?
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    jendejende Posts: 21,432
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    I got the feeling that Arby only came to realise that Jessica was his sister later on in the story after which his motivation and intent changed?

    Yeah could be. I can't remember if it was from the manuscript he realised she was his sister or if he knew anyway? Though he did let her go when he had the manuscript. I do think though, it was more personal for him at the end and not what he was meant to do.
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    T.K.T.K. Posts: 19,502
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    Gatehouse wrote: »
    Still the "seatbelt" scene and the "my god, you set all this up before?" moment as Jessica realises that Arby is not all that she thought he was..finished off with her "it can't be.." moment after he tells her he's her brother.


    Arby blinking blindly in disbelief when he has Jessica at gun point in Alices house before staggering away with his matter-of-fact "where is Jessica Hyde".


    Every single moment Lee was on the screen.


    The first "twa*" scene between Alice and Grant. Bit different to how she said it in Ep6, but that almost signalled them picking up with their normal relationship..so they thought, sigh..


    Arby staggering down the grass verge as the hearse goes by, almost with a tear..


    The King Richard III/Horrible Histories bloke interviewing Becky for her PHD funding.


    Alice blowing the hair out of her eyes before blowing away Monroe.


    Letts line to Dugdale in Ep2 about "trying for a lickle baby?" :cool:


    Jessica's hugging of Grant post-Assistant slaying. Genuine warmth (is she grooming him? )


    Donaldson's "well, I do like cocaine and hookers...they just didn't have to tell everybody about it". And his "I have heart disease" met with Dugdale's "well...you should eat healthier, then!"


    Dugdale's taking out of Anya was pretty ace-I did actually shout "go on Dugdale, kill her!" at the telly, followed by "YES!!!". He didn't get to kill Geoff (Series 2, please), but that was still pretty coool


    One for the re-watchers: check out "Anya" as she's plotting her move to jump Ian, she does lots of obvious "hmm, what to do, what to do...."faces!

    Some great choices there, Gatehouse. I enjoyed all of those scenes/moments. I didn't know that Horrible Histories guy interviewed Becky in the pilot episode :D.

    I'd also like to throw in the scene of Milner describing Mr Rabbit's backstory to Ian. It was so eerie (almost otherwordly), so Keyser Soze, so cool. And I loved how the camera pans away from Milner and starts moving toward the blue skies - that was some beautiful shots of the sky.
    I would actually put this scene as one of my top 3 or 4 scenes on the series.

    jende wrote: »
    Well there's nothing worse when I start prattling on about something and then reaslise how I very much missed the point

    I find it really hard to pick individual bits really. I think to me it had so much going on, so many different strands, yet all were interesting and kept you wondering. To me, that is excellent writing if you can have something that at first doesn't make sense, but watches are eager to see more. I also felt we wasn't spoon fed it, but they gave enough for us to get what was going on.

    The Anya bit was a total surprise, I never suspected her at all. Everyone else yes, but not her. I also liked the civil service bloke and was glad he wasn't a real baddie! I'm not normally one for over soppys, but as soon as he met Alice, I hoped she would go with him. They didn't make it soppy though so I was alright! I think the twists at the end to me were the best part. A brilliant way to end it with a double twist, neither I expected. That was a real 'noooooo' moment!

    I also found it interesting they took a cold bloodied killer Arby and made him someone you could feel sympathy for. It felt all wrong, but I couldn't help thinking he got a raw deal!

    I also thought all the characters were really well done with excellent acting by all. Especially Jessica who's cold detachment was spot on.

    I think it does what British drama often can do if they put their mind to it, show a world that could realistically be real. i.e no OTT, no 'mwah ha ha ha ha' villains. To me it was spot on.

    Ok will stop now before I gush

    Great comments. Couldn't agree more, jende. This is what British drama should be like. Hopefully, we will see more shows like "Utopia" in the coming years. Kudos Television are an asset to the television industry - you can always rely on them to come out with a quality drama like this. I really do think "Utopia" is good enough if not better to be compared to some of the top US TV shows on TV at the moment.There's not many UK shows you can say that about

    As for your favourite bits of Utopia..
    Yes, I didn't see the Anya twist coming either lol. I think someone on the thread suggested that Anya was a Network spy, but I didn't think it was true. Still didnt make me any less shocked when it was proved to be right.

    Also, agree 100% about Arby. Such a shame we didn't get to learn his fate in the final episode :(. The thing I love about him is that he's like a real-life Frankenstein with guns :D. I too agree that Arby got a bit of a raw deal - in a lot of ways, he can't help what he became due to Carvell's experiments on him. He didn't ask to be an assassin for the Network.

    The characters were indeed great and well-rounded. They even managed to make the kids likeable! :eek: :D
    Something a lot of US TV shows have trouble achieving.

    And please, gush away :D. I like reading yours and Gatehouse's comments :).
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