[zandar]

I understand that some Freeview channels are soon to be moved and this will of course, require a re-scan. What is particularly daft is the decision to allocate the HD channels 3 digit numbers starting with BBC 1 on 101.

One of the advantages of Freeview over satellite is that for the 'main' channels, only one number has to be pressed. This is especially helpful for the slow & elderly who often do not punch in the figures quickly enough when attempting multi-digit numbers. If those with HD tuners do not move the channels, they will constantly be punching the 1 and 0 on their remotes. Therefore, these numbers will quickly become worn out and may well jam.(Of course, they could always use the channel hopper).

It was bad enough having 2 digit numbers for the HD channels but what may well now happen is that people will just punch in 1 for BBC 1 etc & watch the channels in SD instead of HD. This would be a great pity as the majority of people are clueless about how to move the channels - as I will be doing.

We also have a completely illogical 3 digit channel line-up on Freesat with the main HD channels spread all over the place & Gaelic & Welsh language channels (Alba & S4C) getting prime slots on the EPG. We also have the Japanese HD News Channel (NHK) sandwiched between the 2 financial channels - Bloomberg & CNBC with the Chinese news channel not next to the other news channels as a result.

[aberboy]

So if we can only have 1 digit numbers this limits the EPG to 10 channels.
Surely 101 up for the HD services makes more sense than in the 50 range?

[Nilrem]

I can actually see the advantage of using 3 digit numbers for the HD channels - if for example 101 is BBC HD it's easier to remember than something like 21 or 31 (or in the case of VM BBC 1 is 101, then BBC1 HD is 108).
The leading digits make it clear it is a HD channel on freeview if this does happen.

The worry about wearing out the buttons on a remote are fairly low imo, as most buttons should last hundreds of thousands of keypresses.

It's almost a pity they can't do the same for the likes of VM, Freesat and Sky, and have the HD channels numbered with a prefix, so the number is the same as the SD version, but with the prefix differentiating it from the SD version.
I hate trying to remember the HD numbers for stuff on VM, as it seems to have no rhyme or reason for a lot of them (BBC1HD is 108, ITV 113, Nat Geo HD 232 etc)

[Marti S]

I would imagine most freeview HD receivers allow you to re-number your channels how you wish, I have swapped mine with the SD channels, shame I cant do the same on Sky

[zandar]

Originally Posted by aberboy

So if we can only have 1 digit numbers this limits the EPG to 10 channels.
Surely 101 up for the HD services makes more sense than in the 50 range?

1 digit numbers for the most popular channels or even 2 digit for the HD channels does not limit the EPG to 10 numbers.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by zandar

f those with HD tuners do not move the channels, they will constantly be punching the 1 and 0 on their remotes. Therefore, these numbers will quickly become worn out and may well jam.(Of course, they could always use the channel hopper).

Do Sky or VirginMedia customers have any issue with this supposed wear & tear on the remote buttons?

Do those customers have any issues similar to those that you described in your first post?

[jmclaugh]

Look at it the other way round, those who don't have HD TV sets get to keep the single digit numbers and they are probably more likely to be the elderly.

[Stigid]

My Freeview HD boxes allow the user to allocate different numbers to the Freeview Channels, in a permanently selected Favourite view / selection.

So
BBC1 HD is Channel 1
BBC 2.... is Channel 2
ITV1 HD is Channel 3
CH 4 HD is Channel 4
CH 5 ..... is Channel 5
BBC HD is Channel 6

BBC1 SD (for local news) is on 11

etc
BBC News is Channel 14

etc


Much worse is my SKY HD box, where "Terrestrial" HD channels are all over the place.
Non recording, favourites set to HD only.

[technologist]

Originally Posted by Stigid

Much worse is my SKY HD box, where "Terrestrial" HD channels are all over the place.
.

And the law means that you cannot reorder them

[DJGM]

Originally Posted by Marti S

I would imagine most freeview HD receivers allow you to re-number your channels how you wish,

My Humax Freeview HD box in the back room upstairs doesn't have any options to swap the channel numbers around,
but my Sony Bravia TV (with Freeview HD built-in) in the lounge downstairs does. I have it setup with the HD versions
of the main terrestrial channels in place of the traditional old fashioned SD counterparts, plus BBC HD moved to 9.

[DVDfever]

Originally Posted by aberboy

So if we can only have 1 digit numbers this limits the EPG to 10 channels.
Surely 101 up for the HD services makes more sense than in the 50 range?

Originally Posted by Nilrem

I can actually see the advantage of using 3 digit numbers for the HD channels - if for example 101 is BBC HD it's easier to remember than something like 21 or 31 (or in the case of VM BBC 1 is 101, then BBC1 HD is 108).

Did IQs suddenly drop sharply while I was away? How difficult it is to remember 50 is BBC1HD, 51 is ITV HD, 52 is C4 HD and 54 is BBC HD?

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by technologist

And the law means that you cannot reorder them

Law !!! ???

[Nilrem]

Originally Posted by DVDfever

Did IQs suddenly drop sharply while I was away? How difficult it is to remember 50 is BBC1HD, 51 is ITV HD, 52 is C4 HD and 54 is BBC HD?

Slightly easier to remember the odd ones like random HD channel has the prefix and then the same number than say the normal channel being 23 but because it's got a HD version, and there are 6 HD channels it's 56.

It's not so much an issue with freeview where the number of HD channels is quite limited, but for the likes of freesat, Sky and VM it would make things much easier than the current numbering which is all over the place...(IE with VM BBC1 HD is 112 from memory, the Sky movie channels are +10, but FF4 HD is next one up....).

[technologist]

Originally Posted by Mark C

Law !!! ???

Yes the provisions of the Communications Act 2003 on "due Prominence of PSBs.... the Sky virgin and freesat Platforms have the provider of the EPG have direct control as to how it is displayed and thus must show due prominence - which is destroyed by reordering.
the UK DTT platform has its EPG created by DMOL and its STB to a spec by DTG... (and the STB manufacturers ..) so no link ...

[Paul_DNAP]

Originally Posted by DVDfever

Did IQs suddenly drop sharply while I was away? How difficult it is to remember 50 is BBC1HD, 51 is ITV HD, 52 is C4 HD and 54 is BBC HD?

It would be much more sensible if they were in the same order as the SD channels, my internal logic tells me C4HD should be 54, and ITV 53, (i.e. add a 5 to the front of the SD channel number) - as much as i know they aren't I do have to rely on the EPG to remember where they actually ar.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by Paul_DNAP

It would be much more sensible if they were in the same order as the SD channels, my internal logic tells me C4HD should be 54, and ITV 53, (i.e. add a 5 to the front of the SD channel number) - as much as i know they aren't I do have to rely on the EPG to remember where they actually ar.

Well, that's what they are planning to do, only using 101, 102 etc. So ITV1 HD will be 103, C4 HD will be 104.

See page 81 of the DMOL Final Consultation:
http://www.dmol.co.uk/__data/assets/...ul12_Final.pdf

[SnrDev]

Originally Posted by DVDfever

Did IQs suddenly drop sharply while I was away? How difficult it is to remember 50 is BBC1HD, 51 is ITV HD, 52 is C4 HD and 54 is BBC HD?

When your normal viewing is on a Freesat TV that also has a Freeview HD tuner and you find yourself at your parents' house wanting to flick to the HD version on their FV tv. Blowed if I can remember which is which on the 2-3 occasions a year that all permutations fall into place to make it necessary.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by technologist

Yes the provisions of the Communications Act 2003 on "due Prominence of PSBs.... the Sky virgin and freesat Platforms have the provider of the EPG have direct control as to how it is displayed and thus must show due prominence - which is destroyed by reordering.
.

What would be wrong about ITV 1 London HD being reallocated to Ch 103 on HD Sky and Freesat boxes in the London area then, because at present the HD boxes display the SD version at that position ?

There's bugger all pragmatism in play at present.

[DVDfever]

Originally Posted by Nilrem

Slightly easier to remember the odd ones like random HD channel has the prefix and then the same number than say the normal channel being 23 but because it's got a HD version, and there are 6 HD channels it's 56.

Well, I can remember them now, so technically it'd be more difficult to change that memory.

Originally Posted by SnrDev

When your normal viewing is on a Freesat TV that also has a Freeview HD tuner and you find yourself at your parents' house wanting to flick to the HD version on their FV tv. Blowed if I can remember which is which on the 2-3 occasions a year that all permutations fall into place to make it necessary.

My parents don't have any HD channels. I have a Sky box but don't watch that many different channels regularly to forget them.

[Y Me]

Originally Posted by Nilrem

The worry about wearing out the buttons on a remote are fairly low imo, as most buttons should last hundreds of thousands of keypresses.)

They should, I agree, but they don't.