Illegal or not, what part do you not understand that is not right for a grown man to sleep with children, abusing his power. Just stop trying to defend him. Just because it isn't illegal doesn't make it okay and that it is fine to do.
You may not realise it but you are stating an opinion which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Your opinion is not wrong but if others disagree with your opinion and don't think like you do, it doesn't mean they are wrong either.
Anyway moving on, I've noticed one or two posters are singling out men only. What about women?
Bearing in mind female sexual abuse perpetrators do exist, do you think it's right for a grown woman to sleep with children?
worryingly this view that its not illegal so it is perfectly fine is very common with the MJ supporters.
how can it be fine to sleep with other peoples pre pubescent boys ?
even if nothing happened which i very much doubt it is still fundamentally wrong and disgusting behaviour for a grown up to partake in , no matter who they are.
If the parents are fine with it and the children are fine with it, then who are we to argue or judge?
You may not realise it but you are stating an opinion which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Your opinion is not wrong but if others disagree with your opinion and don't think like you do, it doesn't mean they are wrong either.
Anyway moving on, I've noticed one or two posters are singling out men only. What about women?
Bearing in mind female sexual abuse perpetrators do exist, do you think it's right for a grown woman to sleep with children?
(Just curious what your personal view is on this)
If the parents are fine with it and the children are fine with it, then who are we to argue or judge?
I would love to know who these people are then, that think it is perfectly fine for adults to sleep with other peoples children unsupervised (besides the mj fans). You said yourself that you wouldn't allow your child too, so in your eyes it is wrong as well.
As the thread relates to MJ, who is as far as we know is a man. Besides any child abuser regardless of sex it doesn't matter all are as bad as each other.
I would love to know who these people are then, that think it is perfectly fine for adults to sleep with other peoples children unsupervised (besides the mj fans). You said yourself that you wouldn't allow your child too, so in your eyes it is wrong as well.
As the thread relates to MJ, who is as far as we know is a man. Besides any child abuser regardless of sex it doesn't matter all are as bad as each other.
Go back and read my post again. I said sleepovers are not wrong but it's a risk I would not take.
Go back and read my post again. I said sleepovers are not wrong but it's a risk I would not take.
So if they are not wrong...what's the risk? as you seem to thing it's perfectly normal for an adult to want an unsupervised sleepover with a child as it's not wrong.
If the parents are fine with it and the children are fine with it, then who are we to argue or judge?
Are you serious? If the children are fine with it? In the world you live in do all child molestation victims inform someone straight away because that certainly doesn't happen in the real world?
The parents of Brett Barnes, Wade Robson and Jordie Chandler were completely irresponsible to allow their sons to have one-on-one sleepovers with a 30 year old man for hundreds of nights. Of course they were blinded by celebrity and money and they let Jackson seduce their children.
I'm also baffled by the excuse that Jackson shared a bed with 10 year old boys because he was reliving his childhood or some such nonsense. When I was ten I didn't want my brother or other boys sleeping in my bed with me. Why do people swallow this tosh?
So if they are not wrong...what's the risk? as you seem to thing it's perfectly normal for an adult to want an unsupervised sleepover with a child as it's not wrong.
Everything we do in life involves risks including sleepovers and the example I gave in one of my previous posts re; a woman walking the streets alone at the night. The act itself is not wrong but it's not safe to do so.
To minimize that risk the most sensible thing to do is to avoid and not participate.
Are you serious? If the children are fine with it? In the world you live in do all child molestation victims inform someone straight away because that certainly doesn't happen in the real world?
The parents of Brett Barnes, Wade Robson and Jordie Chandler were completely irresponsible to allow their sons to have one-on-one sleepovers with a 30 year old man for hundreds of nights. Of course they were blinded by celebrity and money and they let Jackson seduce their children.
I'm also baffled by the excuse that Jackson shared a bed with 10 year old boys because he was reliving his childhood or some such nonsense. When I was ten I didn't want my brother or other boys sleeping in my bed with me. Why do people swallow this tosh?
How do you know they were child molestation victims? Were you there?
Edit: I have slept with my sister, my nephew and a friends child. None of them are child molestation victims.
In the Bashir documentary although Jackson said he 'shared' his bed he made it clear he slept on the floor while the child slept in the bed.
It was not until his trial it became clear Jackson was sleeping in the same bed alone with children as young as 7 and they seemed to grow out of the habit or Jackson kicked them out of bed in their early teens.
Two mothers one for the prosecution & one for the defence gave evidence they were initially unaware their children has slept in the same bed as Jackson.
Wade Robson's evidence was he and his sister fell asleep on Jackson's bed but his sister's evidence was that her bother slept alone with Jackson while she slept in another bed. Their mother's understanding had been for 11 years that the children had slept in a separate bed to Jackson.
The case brought by Katherine Jackson showed Michael Jackson was a liar.
How do you know they were child molestation victims? Were you there?
Edit: I have slept with my sister, my nephew and a friends child. None of them are child molestation victims.
How many times? Once or twice? A dozen times? Jackson spent over 400 nights alone with Brett Barnes and 300 nights alone with Wade Robson. And no I wasn't there but Wade Robson was and now says he was molested (which can't have been an easy admission as it shows his mother in a very bad light).
What do you think Jackson's sexuality was? He would have had you believe he was straight but there were no girlfriends and instead he went to great lengths to share his bed with young boys. Can you not see the wood for the trees?
As a rule male multimillionaires only share their beds with people that they are sexually attracted to. I doubt Jackson was an exception to that rule.
Everything we do in life involves risks including sleepovers and the example I gave in one of my previous posts re; a woman walking the streets alone at the night. The act itself is not wrong but it's not safe to do so.
To minimize that risk the most sensible thing to do is to avoid and not participate.
How do you know they were child molestation victims? Were you there?
Edit: I have slept with my sister, my nephew and a friends child. None of them are child molestation victims.
Why were you sleeping with your sister, nephew and friend's kid? Some context would help. We know that Michael was not simply babysitting the kids he slept with, like I assume you were. It's completely different.
Everything we do in life involves risks including sleepovers and the example I gave in one of my previous posts re; a woman walking the streets alone at the night. The act itself is not wrong but it's not safe to do so.
To minimize that risk the most sensible thing to do is to avoid and not participate.
How do you know they were child molestation victims? Were you there?
Edit: I have slept with my sister, my nephew and a friends child. None of them are child molestation victims.
Jeez...can you not see it, it doesn't have to be child molestation. Child abuse can come under emotional abuse, and judging by these kids who as they have got older I would certainly say they have suffered emotional abuse at the very least.
Just because something isn't against the law it doesn't make it right, that's where people make their own judgements and what MJ did was wrong in so many ways.
Are you serious? If the children are fine with it? In the world you live in do all child molestation victims inform someone straight away because that certainly doesn't happen in the real world?
The parents of Brett Barnes, Wade Robson and Jordie Chandler were completely irresponsible to allow their sons to have one-on-one sleepovers with a 30 year old man for hundreds of nights. Of course they were blinded by celebrity and money and they let Jackson seduce their children.
I'm also baffled by the excuse that Jackson shared a bed with 10 year old boys because he was reliving his childhood or some such nonsense. When I was ten I didn't want my brother or other boys sleeping in my bed with me. Why do people swallow this tosh?
That and the other excuse that MJ was manipulated and had no control in his life. I watched his film "This is it" and one thing was for sure, MJ in that film was in total control and knew exactly what he wanted, the fact was that was the real MJ, not the manipulated person he liked to be portrayed as.
On the flip side though, if someone had molested your child, would you settle for money? I wouldn't. I'd want his sick arse in jail.
Any decent parent wouldn't let their child sleep in a grown man's bed. I wouldn't let my kid sleep with my neighbour, but it doesn't mean I think he's a paedophile.
I don't know what to think with the whole MJ accusations. Part of me believes he was making up for his lost childhood and another part of me thinks it was more sinister. I wouldn't want to say either way. It's too easy to end up blaming an innocent man or accusing a victim of lying.
Well, just because his parents may be money grabbers and found a good opportunity to make a lot of money out of something that may happened, it's no indication whatsoever that the child was not abused. Just because they are parents does not mean they are not crooks.
The only sure thing is that MJ paid an astronomical amount of money to people that in his version are liars.
To be honest i used to think MJ was innocent and people were out to get him, but not anymore. Everyone now days have their eyes open to how sexual abusers operate and we know too much about his personal life to still believe that he was innocent.
Well, just because his parents may be money grabbers and found a good opportunity to make a lot of money out of something that may happened, it's no indication whatsoever that the child was not abused. Just because they are parents does not mean they are not crooks.
The only sure thing is that MJ paid an astronomical amount of money to people that in his version are liars.
To be honest i used to think MJ was innocent and people were out to get him, but not anymore. Everyone now days have their eyes open to how sexual abusers operate and we know too much about his personal life to still believe that he was innocent.
Oh I know that. I'm just saying that if an out of court settlement can be an indication of guilt on Michael's part, accepting an out of court settlement can be an indication of lies on the alleged victim's part. I have no opinion either way tbh.
I don't think anyone will ever know for sure, but one thing I do know is that abusers do tend to hone in on vulnerable children from unstable families, because they know they will be less likely to be believed.
I think some of his alleged actions do point to manipulative, grooming behaviour. The alcohol. Letting a child watch a horror video, which could easily be interpreted as knowing the child will be too scared to want to go to bed alone. Also, if what the British guy Terry George said was true then it was obvious that something was wrong.
I personally think that Jackson was probably abused himself as a child and it's known that some children who've been abused can go on to be abusers themselves.
You may not realise it but you are stating an opinion which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Your opinion is not wrong but if others disagree with your opinion and don't think like you do, it doesn't mean they are wrong either.
Anyway moving on, I've noticed one or two posters are singling out men only. What about women?
Bearing in mind female sexual abuse perpetrators do exist, do you think it's right for a grown woman to sleep with children?
(Just curious what your personal view is on this)
If the parents are fine with it and the children are fine with it, then who are we to argue or judge?
a child cannot consent to it , for the very reason they are a child . and if the parents are fine with a grown unrelated man sleeping with their young boys then the authorities should remove the children from their care.
i am absolutely shocked and sickened that anyone can actually think it is ok for this behaviour to happen.
but not surprised that a MJ supporter thinks it is ok . so disturbing .
Oh I know that. I'm just saying that if an out of court settlement can be an indication of guilt on Michael's part, accepting an out of court settlement can be an indication of lies on the alleged victim's part. I have no opinion either way tbh.
It was not the victim that took the money, the victim was a child, it was the parents. Very very different, So the fact they took the money reflects solely on them, a child has no maturity to make decisions like this, and certainly it is no indication that the child is lying. On the other hand we know for sure that people Michael considered liars were payed off. Being accused of being a pedophile is extremely damaging, the fact he rewarded his accusers instead of cleaning his reputation speaks volumes.
Plus the Chandler relationship with MJ even without the actual sexual abuse is extremely disturbing. No wonder he didn't wanted it looked too closely.
Regardless normal adults do not befriend children. it's unimaginable being invited as a parents to someone's house or to a trip, because your child befriended and is spending time with a childless adult alone. This i have "a soul of child" may have cut muster 20 years ago, not anymore.
It was not the victim that took the money, the victim was a child, it was the parents. Very very different, So the fact they took the money reflects solely on them, a child has no maturity to make decisions like this, and certainly it is no indication that the child is lying. On the other hand we know for sure that people Michael considered liars were payed off. Being accused of being a pedophile is extremely damaging, the fact he rewarded his accusers instead of cleaning his reputation speaks volumes.
Plus the Chandler relationship with MJ even without the actual sexual abuse is extremely disturbing. No wonder he didn't wanted it looked too closely.
Regardless normal adults do not befriend children. it's unimaginable being invited as a parents to someone's house or to a trip, because your child befriended and is spending time with a childless adult alone. This i have "a soul of child" may have cut muster 20 years ago, not anymore.
I've never witnessed a child in court, so I can't say I know the rules. I assumed he would have had some say in what went on.
It depends what you mean by "befriend". Sleepovers are definitely over the line, but I don't see what's wrong with being on friendly terms.
Michael Jackson's interaction with other peoples children appears to be different to that of his own. With other's children sweets and junk food on tap, watching a horror movie, late nights to early in the morning but with his own children there was a regime included limited access to TV & computers plus in bed by 8pm.
I've never witnessed a child in court, so I can't say I know the rules. I assumed he would have had some say in what went on.
It depends what you mean by "befriend". Sleepovers are definitely over the line, but I don't see what's wrong with being on friendly terms.
Two mothers gave evidence at the 2005 trial one whose son claimed he was not abused another whose son claimed he was abused. The mothers accounts relating to Michael Jackson was very similar.
The children were bested with Jackson, dressed and danced liked him, within moments of the children being taken to Neverland Michael Jackson would take them away for 2-3 hours for a tour of the property. On their return the children would ask to spend the night with Jackson....would could possibly be wrong with that.
Neither mother was aware their child had slept in the same bed as Jackson, it appears Jackson failed to mention that fact and in one case (Wade Robson) may have been standing there when the child gave a version to his mother of the sleeping arrangements that was untrue.
Michael Jackson's interaction with other peoples children appears to be different to that of his own. With other's children sweets and junk food on tap, watching a horror movie, late nights to early in the morning but with his own children there was a regime included limited access to TV & computers plus in bed by 8pm.
I believe what you're saying but do you have a link to the reports about the late nights, junk food and horror movies?
Letting a child watch a horror movie is messed up in itsself. I watched the first Halloween movie at 13 and didn't sleep for months, it still scares me silly now. He must have been aware that horror films can distress kids? Maybe he wanted them to be upset and scared the whole thing is creepy.
Jeez...can you not see it, it doesn't have to be child molestation. Child abuse can come under emotional abuse, and judging by these kids who as they have got older I would certainly say they have suffered emotional abuse at the very least.
Just because something isn't against the law it doesn't make it right, that's where people make their own judgements and what MJ did was wrong in so many ways.
Do you think Macaulay Culkin suffered emotional abuse?
Here are a couple links to his testimony including Wade Robson's testimony (and other stuff) you might like to read. It's long but interesting reading.....
I've never witnessed a child in court, so I can't say I know the rules. I assumed he would have had some say in what went on.
It depends what you mean by "befriend". Sleepovers are definitely over the line, but I don't see what's wrong with being on friendly terms.
Are you actually saying it was Chandler and not his parents that were after the money? You know that's absurd. Of course a child has their say in court, but since an abused child have no sense of personal injury like adults or maturity to demand compensation and justice, it's indeed the parents and advisers that decide.
Being friendly with a child is not the same as befriending one. No, it's no normal for an adult to hang around with a strangers child as his/her friend. No parents expects a adult, banging on their door to pick up their child for an outing alone.
How many times? Once or twice? A dozen times? Jackson spent over 400 nights alone with Brett Barnes and 300 nights alone with Wade Robson. And no I wasn't there but Wade Robson was and now says he was molested (which can't have been an easy admission as it shows his mother in a very bad light).
What do you think Jackson's sexuality was? He would have had you believe he was straight but there were no girlfriends and instead he went to great lengths to share his bed with young boys. Can you not see the wood for the trees?
As a rule male multimillionaires only share their beds with people that they are sexually attracted to. I doubt Jackson was an exception to that rule.
How do you know this? According to this, your statement is false:
A common misconception is that Michael only spent time with boys, which is completely false. Michael opened his home to people of all ages, genders, and races, and Neverland had a total open-door policy. The guests were all allowed to go wherever they wanted, whenever they wanted. They weren’t specifically invited into his bedroom for sleepovers. If the kids were running around playing and having a good time, and then wound up in Michael’s bedroom and passed out, that’s all it was.
I always find the people on these types of threads that want MJ to have been a paedophile and want children to have been abused incredibly sinister. You know who you are.
Michael Jackson's interaction with other peoples children appears to be different to that of his own. With other's children sweets and junk food on tap, watching a horror movie, late nights to early in the morning but with his own children there was a regime included limited access to TV & computers plus in bed by 8pm.
Good point! That was something that niggled with me when I watched the Bashir documentary - how come he had a different set of rules for all those other kids?
Comments
You may not realise it but you are stating an opinion which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Your opinion is not wrong but if others disagree with your opinion and don't think like you do, it doesn't mean they are wrong either.
Anyway moving on, I've noticed one or two posters are singling out men only. What about women?
Bearing in mind female sexual abuse perpetrators do exist, do you think it's right for a grown woman to sleep with children?
(Just curious what your personal view is on this)
If the parents are fine with it and the children are fine with it, then who are we to argue or judge?
I would love to know who these people are then, that think it is perfectly fine for adults to sleep with other peoples children unsupervised (besides the mj fans). You said yourself that you wouldn't allow your child too, so in your eyes it is wrong as well.
As the thread relates to MJ, who is as far as we know is a man. Besides any child abuser regardless of sex it doesn't matter all are as bad as each other.
Go back and read my post again. I said sleepovers are not wrong but it's a risk I would not take.
So if they are not wrong...what's the risk? as you seem to thing it's perfectly normal for an adult to want an unsupervised sleepover with a child as it's not wrong.
Are you serious? If the children are fine with it? In the world you live in do all child molestation victims inform someone straight away because that certainly doesn't happen in the real world?
The parents of Brett Barnes, Wade Robson and Jordie Chandler were completely irresponsible to allow their sons to have one-on-one sleepovers with a 30 year old man for hundreds of nights. Of course they were blinded by celebrity and money and they let Jackson seduce their children.
I'm also baffled by the excuse that Jackson shared a bed with 10 year old boys because he was reliving his childhood or some such nonsense. When I was ten I didn't want my brother or other boys sleeping in my bed with me. Why do people swallow this tosh?
Everything we do in life involves risks including sleepovers and the example I gave in one of my previous posts re; a woman walking the streets alone at the night. The act itself is not wrong but it's not safe to do so.
To minimize that risk the most sensible thing to do is to avoid and not participate.
How do you know they were child molestation victims? Were you there?
Edit: I have slept with my sister, my nephew and a friends child. None of them are child molestation victims.
It was not until his trial it became clear Jackson was sleeping in the same bed alone with children as young as 7 and they seemed to grow out of the habit or Jackson kicked them out of bed in their early teens.
Two mothers one for the prosecution & one for the defence gave evidence they were initially unaware their children has slept in the same bed as Jackson.
Wade Robson's evidence was he and his sister fell asleep on Jackson's bed but his sister's evidence was that her bother slept alone with Jackson while she slept in another bed. Their mother's understanding had been for 11 years that the children had slept in a separate bed to Jackson.
The case brought by Katherine Jackson showed Michael Jackson was a liar.
How many times? Once or twice? A dozen times? Jackson spent over 400 nights alone with Brett Barnes and 300 nights alone with Wade Robson. And no I wasn't there but Wade Robson was and now says he was molested (which can't have been an easy admission as it shows his mother in a very bad light).
What do you think Jackson's sexuality was? He would have had you believe he was straight but there were no girlfriends and instead he went to great lengths to share his bed with young boys. Can you not see the wood for the trees?
As a rule male multimillionaires only share their beds with people that they are sexually attracted to. I doubt Jackson was an exception to that rule.
Why were you sleeping with your sister, nephew and friend's kid? Some context would help. We know that Michael was not simply babysitting the kids he slept with, like I assume you were. It's completely different.
Jeez...can you not see it, it doesn't have to be child molestation. Child abuse can come under emotional abuse, and judging by these kids who as they have got older I would certainly say they have suffered emotional abuse at the very least.
Just because something isn't against the law it doesn't make it right, that's where people make their own judgements and what MJ did was wrong in so many ways.
That and the other excuse that MJ was manipulated and had no control in his life. I watched his film "This is it" and one thing was for sure, MJ in that film was in total control and knew exactly what he wanted, the fact was that was the real MJ, not the manipulated person he liked to be portrayed as.
Well, just because his parents may be money grabbers and found a good opportunity to make a lot of money out of something that may happened, it's no indication whatsoever that the child was not abused. Just because they are parents does not mean they are not crooks.
The only sure thing is that MJ paid an astronomical amount of money to people that in his version are liars.
To be honest i used to think MJ was innocent and people were out to get him, but not anymore. Everyone now days have their eyes open to how sexual abusers operate and we know too much about his personal life to still believe that he was innocent.
Oh I know that. I'm just saying that if an out of court settlement can be an indication of guilt on Michael's part, accepting an out of court settlement can be an indication of lies on the alleged victim's part. I have no opinion either way tbh.
I think some of his alleged actions do point to manipulative, grooming behaviour. The alcohol. Letting a child watch a horror video, which could easily be interpreted as knowing the child will be too scared to want to go to bed alone. Also, if what the British guy Terry George said was true then it was obvious that something was wrong.
I personally think that Jackson was probably abused himself as a child and it's known that some children who've been abused can go on to be abusers themselves.
a child cannot consent to it , for the very reason they are a child . and if the parents are fine with a grown unrelated man sleeping with their young boys then the authorities should remove the children from their care.
i am absolutely shocked and sickened that anyone can actually think it is ok for this behaviour to happen.
but not surprised that a MJ supporter thinks it is ok . so disturbing .
It was not the victim that took the money, the victim was a child, it was the parents. Very very different, So the fact they took the money reflects solely on them, a child has no maturity to make decisions like this, and certainly it is no indication that the child is lying. On the other hand we know for sure that people Michael considered liars were payed off. Being accused of being a pedophile is extremely damaging, the fact he rewarded his accusers instead of cleaning his reputation speaks volumes.
Plus the Chandler relationship with MJ even without the actual sexual abuse is extremely disturbing. No wonder he didn't wanted it looked too closely.
Regardless normal adults do not befriend children. it's unimaginable being invited as a parents to someone's house or to a trip, because your child befriended and is spending time with a childless adult alone. This i have "a soul of child" may have cut muster 20 years ago, not anymore.
I've never witnessed a child in court, so I can't say I know the rules. I assumed he would have had some say in what went on.
It depends what you mean by "befriend". Sleepovers are definitely over the line, but I don't see what's wrong with being on friendly terms.
Two mothers gave evidence at the 2005 trial one whose son claimed he was not abused another whose son claimed he was abused. The mothers accounts relating to Michael Jackson was very similar.
The children were bested with Jackson, dressed and danced liked him, within moments of the children being taken to Neverland Michael Jackson would take them away for 2-3 hours for a tour of the property. On their return the children would ask to spend the night with Jackson....would could possibly be wrong with that.
Neither mother was aware their child had slept in the same bed as Jackson, it appears Jackson failed to mention that fact and in one case (Wade Robson) may have been standing there when the child gave a version to his mother of the sleeping arrangements that was untrue.
I believe what you're saying but do you have a link to the reports about the late nights, junk food and horror movies?
Letting a child watch a horror movie is messed up in itsself. I watched the first Halloween movie at 13 and didn't sleep for months, it still scares me silly now. He must have been aware that horror films can distress kids? Maybe he wanted them to be upset and scared
Do you think Macaulay Culkin suffered emotional abuse?
Here are a couple links to his testimony including Wade Robson's testimony (and other stuff) you might like to read. It's long but interesting reading.....
http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/macaulay-culkin-is-michael-jacksons-true-friend/
http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/what-does-the-aeg-trial-have-to-do-with-wade-robson-and-blanca-francia/
Are you actually saying it was Chandler and not his parents that were after the money? You know that's absurd. Of course a child has their say in court, but since an abused child have no sense of personal injury like adults or maturity to demand compensation and justice, it's indeed the parents and advisers that decide.
Being friendly with a child is not the same as befriending one. No, it's no normal for an adult to hang around with a strangers child as his/her friend. No parents expects a adult, banging on their door to pick up their child for an outing alone.
How do you know this? According to this, your statement is false:
Link here......
http://its-slander.tumblr.com/post/38450793114/did-michael-jackson-sleep-with-children
Good point! That was something that niggled with me when I watched the Bashir documentary - how come he had a different set of rules for all those other kids?