School inspections!!

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  • Mrs TeapotMrs Teapot Posts: 124,896
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    queenshaks wrote: »
    Too long ago for me to remember Mrs T.

    Although when I first came to this country when I was 8, that was one of the first things we learnt to do in school. And a boy chose me for a partner and I was so excited!

    I remember it so well as she was a stoutly woman and used to shout it out :D

    I remember some of the verse of one.............First couple separate and out amongst the green, pass your partner coming out and pass them coming in.............maybe not word for word but I'm here giggling ;)
    Thats England - we're in Wales - see post 6!!

    Sorry Alan, I'm a bugger for scanning things :o

    I do think that 'little notice' is better and it's far better to see a school as it is and not one that is 'a showcase' for OFSTED

    We are constantly aware that OFSTED can come in at any moment and keep that thought in our heads
  • queenshaksqueenshaks Posts: 10,281
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    Mrs T, what are you like!

    I'm sure we were given 2 weeks notice and we're in Bucks.
  • Stiffy78Stiffy78 Posts: 26,260
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    dome wrote: »
    What does it say about the schools that fail inspections with the prior warning?

    Maybe instead of special measures they should be closed down immediately and some if not all of the staff sacked.

    How are you going to find suitable alternative places for potentially 1000+ kids immediately?
  • Mrs TeapotMrs Teapot Posts: 124,896
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    queenshaks wrote: »
    Mrs T, what are you like!

    I'm sure we were given 2 weeks notice and we're in Bucks.

    It's changed Queenie, it used to be a couple of weeks if not less but now they only give you very short notice.

    We are on a constant alert, well I say that but all we say is that we are up to scratch with everything.

    I do know a school just a short distance from me got OFSTED'ed a couple of months ago..........found out on the Thursday and it fell on the following Monday
  • alancrackeralancracker Posts: 5,280
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    dome wrote: »
    What does it say about the schools that fail inspections with the prior warning?

    Maybe instead of special measures they should be closed down immediately and some if not all of the staff sacked.

    Come on OTD react to that!!

    Well OK I will for you - I've been in my present school as head of dept for 7 years and at first it was awful, I hated it and we were inspected after I'd been there about 18 months and the verdict was 'the school has serious weaknesses' - not quite special measures but not far off. They said we'll come back in a year and see if you've improved - that year was very difficult to say the least and it sounds like what you went through - anyway they came and said we had improved sufficiently and so have left us alone for 5 years =- till Jan 24th!!.

    Since their revisit we have not relaxed and hopefully are still going in the right direction (we'll know for sure after week of Jan 24th) but I definitely feel that working in a school like where I am is harder than a bright 'middle class' school. Teachers in schools in special measures will almost to a man be working ever so hard to improve matters. It is hard to educate pupils when they do not care and neither do their parents - and that is what many teachers of schools in special measures are up against. I would never make a blanket statement criticising them - I feel for them tbh
  • queenshaksqueenshaks Posts: 10,281
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    Mrs Teapot wrote: »
    It's changed Queenie, it used to be a couple of weeks if not less but now they only give you very short notice.

    We are on a constant alert, well I say that but all we say is that we are up to scratch with everything.

    I do know a school just a short distance from me got OFSTED'ed a couple of months ago..........found out on the Thursday and it fell on the following Monday
    We had ours done last year or year before, time goes so quick I forget which year. Hold on, going to OFSTED to have a look...

    It was 14th and 15th Ocotber 2009 and I'm sure we were given at least 2 weeks notice, it gave the teachers enough time to panic, meet, then plan, plan, plan!
  • academiaacademia Posts: 18,225
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    Yeah that is England isn't it - I work in Wales which is a bit different - you get '20 working days' so we were told about the middle of December - we knew it was coming but were expecting end Feb, beginning March. Annoying in a way - but at least it will be all over by the end of January!!

    Think yourself lucky - here we go through HELL. For three years before we were actually inspected, we were told, 'It might be this year.'. Documents with all the latest stats and develoments in teaching deluged us - there was no way on this earth that we had time to read them all. Then every time another school in the area was inspected, we got their reports to read as well, and lots of meetings explaining these reports and how they should affect our behaviour.
    Finally we got the date and the thud of urgent reading material thumping on to our desks was all that was to be heard.
    Then we had to undergo the pre-inspection Inspection (by the local authority) during which every fault we had was reported. We had to respond to every point and say what action we were going to take.
    By the time HMI actually arrived, we were exhausted. My inspector came in to see a special needs group - bunch of cowboys they were. My heart sank - you have to be a bit unconventional to deal with these classes. Anyway, she starts wandering round the class looking at the notebooks and lessons and such. Then she starts questioning the kids about me and how things usually are in the classroom (yes, they do that too). To a man my cowboys refused to speak to her. She gently insisted and was told to 'F... off, missus. We're not telling you anything about her.'
    I had to turn away to hide a smile..
    She left the room herself and we all heard this great roar of laughter from the corridor. It was good to discover that HMI has a sense of humour.
    I told the class off for that but they said they weren't going to speak to her because they didn't know what the right answer was, bless 'em.
  • xxjemimaxxxxjemimaxx Posts: 346
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    CarrieK wrote: »
    There's only one F'in Ofsted,

    But that's quite enough for us.

    If there's no F'in lesson plan,

    There's one hell of an F'in fuss.



    There's an F'in form to fill in,

    For everything that's said.

    There'll be no F'in future,

    If that fails to please the Head.





    There's no F'in spiritual,

    Or cultural education.

    No F'in equality,

    But much in differentiation.



    There's only one F'in Ofsted,

    With its "Education Speak".

    Thank God there's an F'in Friday

    To end the F'in week.

    Love it !!:D We have Ofsted at some point this year everyone will be on tenterhooks till they arrive and leave:(
  • Mrs TeapotMrs Teapot Posts: 124,896
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    queenshaks wrote: »
    We had ours done last year or year before, time goes so quick I forget which year. Hold on, going to OFSTED to have a look...

    It was 14th and 15th Ocotber 2009 and I'm sure we were given at least 2 weeks notice, it gave the teachers enough time to panic, meet, then plan, plan, plan!


    *puffs and pants after running around like a loon* ;):D


    Ofsted will give schools less than two days’ notice of inspection, the vast majority having between one and two days, ensuring a balance between reducing pressure on schools and ensuring inspectors see a true picture of what the school is like from day-to-day for pupils.

    Link
  • queenshaksqueenshaks Posts: 10,281
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    Mrs Teapot wrote: »
    *puffs and pants after running around like a loon* ;):D


    Ofsted will give schools less than two days’ notice of inspection, the vast majority having between one and two days, ensuring a balance between reducing pressure on schools and ensuring inspectors see a true picture of what the school is like from day-to-day for pupils.

    Link

    I'll find out tomorrow how much notice we had and I'll update you tomorrow ;)
  • alancrackeralancracker Posts: 5,280
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    Yeah we've been told the style of inspection has changed in the last 5 years a lot - then we had say 120 lessons observed, this time we're told there will be around 30 (we are a small school so that will be about 1 per teacher) and the analysis of data will be very important. The head says that the observations are checking up on him to see if what he tells the inspectors about the school is actually true.

    Apparently they also set a lot of stall by what the kids tell them and have interviews with the kids a lot. Things like the fact that our school council is much higher profile now will get us brownie points as will the fact that we had kids observing lessons on our last 'quality assurance week' (when management go into lessons observing a particular year group). Kids are on interviewing panels for staff appointments and go to governors meetings - its the future as Peter Kay would say - actually tbh I have no real problem with it as it teaches them responsibility and matures them but you do wonder where it is all going.

    What will schools be like in 20 years time? - answers on a postcard - one things for sure I will no longer be working in them then - good luck to those who will be!!
  • Mrs TeapotMrs Teapot Posts: 124,896
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    queenshaks wrote: »
    I'll find out tomorrow how much notice we had and I'll update you tomorrow ;)

    Cheers Queenie................if you had more than we will get I'll complain :D

    In reality it is a constant pressure on us all as you will know, you cannot dress a school, you have to be up there all the time and providing the results ect.

    I've done 2 OFSTED's now, we went from V. Good to being Outstanding so in reality the pressure to retain that is immense. It is harder to drop than to rise
  • queenshaksqueenshaks Posts: 10,281
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    Ok Mrs T, I finally remembered to ask my teacher!

    The school DID get 2 days notice!:o:o

    They were told on a Monday they were coming on Wednesday and Thursday! I said to my teacher it wasn't 2 weeks notice then and she replied..NOOOOOOOOOOO!!:D
  • queenshaksqueenshaks Posts: 10,281
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    One more bump for Mrs T...
  • goonernataliegoonernatalie Posts: 4,170
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    I think that there should be no warning,just the inspectors turn up so they will see 'real lessons''
  • Lola UKLola UK Posts: 3,577
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    Im in my final year in uni doing primary teaching and this type of talk terrifies me!
  • queenshaksqueenshaks Posts: 10,281
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    Lola UK wrote: »
    Im in my final year in uni doing primary teaching and this type of talk terrifies me!

    You'll be fine.
  • netcurtainsnetcurtains Posts: 23,494
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    Ofsted reports make for depressing reading for parents, if a schools performance is described as fair to middling when the entire school staff have had prior warning to get their act together and to be on their best behaviour, just how bad are they when no one is around inspecting them?

    I love the school my 8yr old is at now but their ofsted report didn't make for great reading late last year, to be frank it was disappointing and worried me as my son isn't academically great and the teaching doesn't seem to be up to standard (they're all lovely though, I'm not knocking them but something is going wrong).
    The school I removed him from is now under special measures it was performing so badly and I'm not surprised as I removed not one but two children from there, why I gave them a second chance I have no idea!

    My point is though that unless I travel, these two schools are my only choice, one is under special measures and I wouldn't send him back there even if you threatened to scoop out my eyeballs with rusty spoons and the other isn't performing well at all despite being a lovely, warm friendly school. Just how bad are they really when no one is around watching them?
  • queenshaksqueenshaks Posts: 10,281
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    Ofsted reports make for depressing reading for parents, if a schools performance is described as fair to middling when the entire school staff have had prior warning to get their act together and to be on their best behaviour, just how bad are they when no one is around inspecting them?

    I love the school my 8yr old is at now but their ofsted report didn't make for great reading late last year, to be frank it was disappointing and worried me as my son isn't academically great and the teaching doesn't seem to be up to standard (they're all lovely though, I'm not knocking them but something is going wrong).
    The school I removed him from is now under special measures it was performing so badly and I'm not surprised as I removed not one but two children from there, why I gave them a second chance I have no idea!

    My point is though that unless I travel, these two schools are my only choice, one is under special measures and I wouldn't send him back there even if you threatened to scoop out my eyeballs with rusty spoons and the other isn't performing well at all despite being a lovely, warm friendly school. Just how bad are they really when no one is around watching them?
    Even though we had 2 days notice and lessons were re planned, our school is very good. I'm a member of staff as well as a parent at the school, so I get to see both sides.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,742
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    is it like an ofsted report??

    Haha. At my school, it was hilarious. One teacher panicked as there was a table in front of a door which we never used in the first place. She moved it out of the way, put some chairs around it.. When the inspectors came, she smiled so much it was like being taught by a completely different teacher. And we learned nothing new. She got an excellent report I think. Oh, she moved the table back in front of the door straight afterwards.. pointless huh.. I agree, inspectors should come when nobody is expecting them.. My drama teacher was useless, we used to walk in and we'd talk for about 15-20 mins, and then he'd finally get off his damn computer and tell us what we were supposed to be doing. Then he'd go back on his computer again for half an hour. Lesson over. I'm pretty sure he's not at that school anymore, must have got sacked..
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 276
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    Come on OTD react to that!!

    Well OK I will for you - I've been in my present school as head of dept for 7 years and at first it was awful, I hated it and we were inspected after I'd been there about 18 months and the verdict was 'the school has serious weaknesses' - not quite special measures but not far off. They said we'll come back in a year and see if you've improved - that year was very difficult to say the least and it sounds like what you went through - anyway they came and said we had improved sufficiently and so have left us alone for 5 years =- till Jan 24th!!.

    Since their revisit we have not relaxed and hopefully are still going in the right direction (we'll know for sure after week of Jan 24th) but I definitely feel that working in a school like where I am is harder than a bright 'middle class' school. Teachers in schools in special measures will almost to a man be working ever so hard to improve matters. It is hard to educate pupils when they do not care and neither do their parents - and that is what many teachers of schools in special measures are up against. I would never make a blanket statement criticising them - I feel for them tbh

    Not bititng, besides I started working there just after it went into special measures. To be honest though when schools go into special measures it is the case that more often than not a large number of staff change almost over night. Sometimes this is fair, sometimes not, as you say, sometimes kids just don't want to play ball (such as in the school I'm at now). We can't control them and force them to want to be a part of them, only try and entice them. Incidentally, I wonder if people who actually knew the ins and outs of inspections would still be as adamant in their opinion of instant sackings. Things such as a whole lesson being judged, yet the inspector seeing usually only 20 mins of it. Such as the grading being determined entirely by progress made, regardless of what the teacher does or doesn't do. I agree that you would expect there to be a correlation between teaching and progress, but I once had an inspection where the inspector said to me "I don't know what feedback to give you. Everything you did was great, but the kids just weren't engaging. I've never seen anything so bizarre. I really should grade this lesson satisfactory based on the students, but I am going to grade it good because I don't know what more you could have done." I was lucky to have had her and her empathy, another one would have probably graded it satisfactory or inadequate.

    I really wish someone could inspect OFSTED on the quiet and show the public what these decisions are actually based on sometimes. It really can be quite ridiculous.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 276
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    Ofsted reports make for depressing reading for parents, if a schools performance is described as fair to middling when the entire school staff have had prior warning to get their act together and to be on their best behaviour, just how bad are they when no one is around inspecting them?

    I love the school my 8yr old is at now but their ofsted report didn't make for great reading late last year, to be frank it was disappointing and worried me as my son isn't academically great and the teaching doesn't seem to be up to standard (they're all lovely though, I'm not knocking them but something is going wrong).
    The school I removed him from is now under special measures it was performing so badly and I'm not surprised as I removed not one but two children from there, why I gave them a second chance I have no idea!

    My point is though that unless I travel, these two schools are my only choice, one is under special measures and I wouldn't send him back there even if you threatened to scoop out my eyeballs with rusty spoons and the other isn't performing well at all despite being a lovely, warm friendly school. Just how bad are they really when no one is around watching them?

    If it's a warm and friendly school and your son seems happy, there is a good chance that they are actually good school who don't just raise their game because OFTSED are in. Most of the pressure comes from the masses of paperwork that needs preparing for their reference to look over. Or having to re-jig a perfectly good lesson just to put on a show that really doesn't benefit the learning at all! As a parent, there is no way knowing what I know now that I would ever judge a school based on its' OFSTED or results. I would try and make a few visits and see what's happening on a day to day basis.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 276
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    Come on OTD react to that!!

    Well OK I will for you - I've been in my present school as head of dept for 7 years and at first it was awful, I hated it and we were inspected after I'd been there about 18 months and the verdict was 'the school has serious weaknesses' - not quite special measures but not far off. They said we'll come back in a year and see if you've improved - that year was very difficult to say the least and it sounds like what you went through - anyway they came and said we had improved sufficiently and so have left us alone for 5 years =- till Jan 24th!!.

    Since their revisit we have not relaxed and hopefully are still going in the right direction (we'll know for sure after week of Jan 24th) but I definitely feel that working in a school like where I am is harder than a bright 'middle class' school. Teachers in schools in special measures will almost to a man be working ever so hard to improve matters. It is hard to educate pupils when they do not care and neither do their parents - and that is what many teachers of schools in special measures are up against. I would never make a blanket statement criticising them - I feel for them tbh

    PS hope your inspection goes well, going into measures is not something I would wish upon my worst enemy and if a school genuinely is struggling, it is the most counterproductive thing I can imagine for the staff. I've seen fantastic teachers go under by continuing to teach well and do the hoop-jumping, whereas lazy-arsed gits don't even feel it because they have 3 golden lessons pre-planned that they pull out during the inspection and spend the rest of the year letting the kids run riot while they produce pretty bits of paper 'proving' to the world how amazing they are. It's very sad:(
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 138
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    OTD wrote: »
    If it's a warm and friendly school and your son seems happy, there is a good chance that they are actually good school who don't just raise their game because OFTSED are in. Most of the pressure comes from the masses of paperwork that needs preparing for their reference to look over. Or having to re-jig a perfectly good lesson just to put on a show that really doesn't benefit the learning at all! As a parent, there is no way knowing what I know now that I would ever judge a school based on its' OFSTED or results. I would try and make a few visits and see what's happening on a day to day basis.

    I totally agree...I own a pre-school where we are inspected every three years and we are given no warning at all. It used to terrify me when I answered the door and an inspector was stood there but now it doesn't bother me as I know we run a very good setting and we do not need to put on a show. We have never had an overall outstanding judgement given to us as we are usually marked down on something relating to paperwork ( paperwork is not our priority as we would rather be sitting engaging with our children rather than walking about with clipboards making notes and observations!)
    All our children leave our setting able to write their names and recognise and sound the letters of the alphabet, but more importantly they are happy confident children, ready to engage further in their learning at primary school
  • alancrackeralancracker Posts: 5,280
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    Well Estyn (the Welsh equivalent of Ofsted) have come and gone at our school and yesterday we heard that we had got an excellent report so all the stress and hard work has been worth it (I think!!).

    Still find the process a bit of a farce tbh but we defnitely played the game a lot better than we did 5 years ago - plus the fact that we are a much better school.

    Every single lesson observed was good or better - there were no adequates at all which the inspectors said was almost unheard of.

    In a dept meeting about 2 weeks before the inspection one teacher (who admittedly is a member of the SMT of the school) said 'The improvement in our school over the last 5 years is cos of the head'. Yes the head is OK but imo its not cos of the head primarily that the school has improved so much its cos of many many excellent hard working teachers there (yes including me!!) - now yes he has appointed a lot of them and yes he lets them get on with their job but to say that the improvement is cos of good management is just to me - well rubbish. Its a small part of the big picture.

    Our school historically though has not got that good a reputation locally - and in those cases it is hard to overcome that - so we will be loving it when the report goes to the local press. One nearby school who get 80% or so A-C for GCSE I think got a worse report than us - our A-C for GCSE last year was 37% but the difference is that we have over 30% on free school meals and over 30% special needs - they have about 3% such kids - which makes a bit of a difference!!

    If you recall we were expecting them end of Feb and were unhappy about them coming earlier but now its out the way how pleased we are - and they will now leave us alone for 5 years. Brilliant.
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