Look I think we are missing the point Nat still has about 15-20 years left to get pregnant. Most women hit the menopause at 50
But most women cannot successfully carry a live healthy baby for several years before the menopause starts unless using donor egg IVF. This is because of their diminished ovarian reserve, for one. A woman going through IVF aged 45 would be advised to use donor eggs, for example.
I'm a woman and I would use 45 as the highest cut off point. Plenty of women find they are going menopausal years before this.
But most women cannot successfully carry a live healthy baby for several years before the menopause starts unless using donor egg IVF. This is because of their diminished ovarian reserve, for one. A woman going through IVF aged 45 would be advised to use donor eggs, for example.
I'm a woman and I would use 45 as the highest cut off point. Plenty of women find they are going menopausal years before this.
Right I understand now but nat still has between 10-15 years too have a kid. She still has loads of time.
Fertility is no barrier. If what's important is for you to have children, it shouldn't be important how that happens. At least as long as it's within the law.
What matters is your capacity and ability to care for children. If you hold off on having children for 10 years, that could be 10 years where you improve your parenting abilities and resources.
Personally, I've been ambiguous on having children for years, but with time I've only moved further away from it. I'm not opposed to individuals choosing to have children, I'm especially in favor of adoption and foster care. But I both don't want to be responsible for a child, and I think the world could do with dramatically lower birth rates. We're way past the point where having more of us is in itself useful. If we want more minds to work on problems, there are plenty around to be brought out of poverty. More humans first of all means more pollution, consuming resources at a greater rate, and an even more significant impact on all the other species that make up the ecosystem that we depend upon.
Looking at your profile, you're still only 21. You have years left ahead of you. Don't be so hard on yourself.
I agree, Natalie has never had a job in her life and her partner is unemployed so it would be good for her to have some life experience first and for them both to become fortunate enough to gain employment so they can give their child a better chance in life. Not that only working people should be parents, it's just that they are so young they can plan ahead.
There's loads of time for them yet, and hopefully one day their dreams will come true.
Becoming fit and healthy is a start and it will make her feel great about herself. Which in turn may possibly improve her fertility difficulties... or at least make her feel more positive about prospects for IVF.
Mine is a lifestyle choice. I have an aversion to children, I don't understand them, don't have the endless patience required, and can't be doing with the noise and mess and so ruled out having children very early on. I seem to be missing a mothering trait, so I would be a terrible parent and it wouldn't be fair on me or the child.
While I'm unable to relate to your situation, I do wish you the very best.
Which is fair enough.
Except i would assume you are expecting somebody else`s child to look after you in your old age?
You do realise other peoples kids will be looking after you in your old age?
There is no escaping kids, whether you and your partner like it or not.
What??????
Seriously, what's going on in this thread? People can choose not to overpopulate the planet if they wish!
I feel so sincerely for people like Shmisk who spends her life caring for other people (she's a nurse) and who's desperation for another child destroyed her relationship with her current partner.
I equally understand why some, like me, have never even thought about having children.
Nobody should be villified for making these decisions.
So one case of a 54 year old giving birth means that the statement 'there are pretty much 0 cases of 50 year old women having successful natural pregnancies' is incorrect?
Erm....no. I said 'pretty much', not that there are none. It is statistically rare and unlikely.
You are missing my point, the woman in question had 39 births!!!!! The wikipedia page (if you looked?) proved your point. There is no need to make an argument with me.
I bloody love kids. They're hysterical and generally all around awesome.
But do I want any? Not for one second.
I thought when I was younger I would and the plan was then and still is now to adopt if I ever decide I want kids. But I don't think I ever will. I don't have the patience for the constant attention they need. The constant inane chatter and I want I want I want. Tantrums. Lack of sleep. Constantly having to put their needs before everyone else's.
This way I get the best of both worlds. I go to my friends. Play with the kids. Spoil the kids. Then come home and don't have to worry about uniforms being ready or lunches packed etc etc etc.
This way I get the best of both worlds. I go to my friends. Play with the kids. Spoil the kids. Then come home and don't have to worry about uniforms being ready or lunches packed etc etc etc.
You hear it all the time, the notion that a pregnant woman shouldnt feel ill, tired, or complain about such or she is exaggerating or trying to seek sympathy. Its annoying when it comes from other mothers/pregnant women who were lucky to be blessed with easy pregnancies, nevermind when it comes from a man or a woman who has never been through it.
We have someone on this very thread hospitalized during pregnancy with a life threatening condition. It is a complication and things can go incredibly wrong, is it really that far-fetched to believe it can make women feel sick, tired and unable to do much?
To whoever said that many women use it as an excuse to gain sympathy or similar, this is exactly what attitude I am talking about.
You do not know the effect the pregnancy is having on the woman, probably because you are used to the media imposed view of pregnancy ie: slim beautiful celebrities with perfect bumps sailing through pregnancy care free and dressing their bumps in fashionable outfits and see it as a serene, relaxing and peaceful time in a woman's life. Therefore why would any woman complain?.
It is not like that for a lot of women- its a big strain on the body and many women get ill during. Yes some women have it easy and it would be pathetic for a woman to pretend to be ill in pregnancy to gain sympathy or favours, but it doesnt mean a woman is 'milking it' if she feels crap and can't do much, it might be true, how would you know and who are you to judge how ill another person is feeling, and whether their 'condition' merits them feeling like that?
so ypur daying I cant have an opinion on it ss iv never been through it.?
I think 30 is quite young to be thinking you don't still have a chance to have kids if that's what you want.
If your partner is 'highly strung' and unable to stop smoking is he mentally ready to be a parent?
Its his personality. He is ten years older so if he isnt ready now he never will b lol
You hear it all the time, the notion that a pregnant woman shouldnt feel ill, tired, or complain about such or she is exaggerating or trying to seek sympathy. Its annoying when it comes from other mothers/pregnant women who were lucky to be blessed with easy pregnancies, nevermind when it comes from a man or a woman who has never been through it.
We have someone on this very thread hospitalized during pregnancy with a life threatening condition. It is a complication and things can go incredibly wrong, is it really that far-fetched to believe it can make women feel sick, tired and unable to do much?
To whoever said that many women use it as an excuse to gain sympathy or similar, this is exactly what attitude I am talking about.
You do not know the effect the pregnancy is having on the woman, probably because you are used to the media imposed view of pregnancy ie: slim beautiful celebrities with perfect bumps sailing through pregnancy care free and dressing their bumps in fashionable outfits and see it as a serene, relaxing and peaceful time in a woman's life. Therefore why would any woman complain?.
It is not like that for a lot of women- its a big strain on the body and many women get ill during. Yes some women have it easy and it would be pathetic for a woman to pretend to be ill in pregnancy to gain sympathy or favours, but it doesnt mean a woman is 'milking it' if she feels crap and can't do much, it might be true, how would you know and who are you to judge how ill another person is feeling, and whether their 'condition' merits them feeling like that?
Bravo.
I am a mum of six boys aged 8 to 27 and I want to see this crappy new-age shite called 'I'm not ill, I'm pregnant' relegated to the realms of fantasy that it came from back in the 80's. Pregnancy IS an illness, it DOES make you sick and often bloody damn sick at that and it can also KILL a woman and the baby she is carrying.
Pregnancy and childbirth, in my opinion, is a tightrope that all women walk especially in this day and age when we are supposed to be receiving the best and most up to date care but very often don't because budgets and staffing decide otherwise. I had four text-book pregnancies and births - the other two could have killed me had it not been for the benefits of modern medicine and fast intervention. Pregnancy is not simply a 'condition', it is a period of time when a woman's body takes on a mind of its own and carries out a process that is taken out of her hands. It can make you sick, tired and depressed - it can also be a breeze and a doddle for the entire 40 weeks. But for every woman for whom it is the latter there are more for whom it is the most difficult time of their lives. And at the end of it, unless you are too posh to push, you have to do the equivalent of pulling your top lip back over the top of your head.
I am a mum of six boys aged 8 to 27 and I want to see this crappy new-age shite called 'I'm not ill, I'm pregnant' relegated to the realms of fantasy that it came from back in the 80's. Pregnancy IS an illness, it DOES make you sick and often bloody damn sick at that and it can also KILL a woman and the baby she is carrying.
Pregnancy and childbirth, in my opinion, is a tightrope that all women walk especially in this day and age when we are supposed to be receiving the best and most up to date care but very often don't because budgets and staffing decide otherwise. I had four text-book pregnancies and births - the other two could have killed me had it not been for the benefits of modern medicine and fast intervention. Pregnancy is not simply a 'condition', it is a period of time when a woman's body takes on a mind of its own and carries out a process that is taken out of her hands. It can make you sick, tired and depressed - it can also be a breeze and a doddle for the entire 40 weeks. But for every woman for whom it is the latter there are more for whom it is the most difficult time of their lives. And at the end of it, unless you are too posh to push, you have to do the equivalent of pulling your top lip back over the top of your head.
Yes, we deserve a bloody medal for it!
Your baby is essentially a parasite and out to use you as they please, some women do ok with this others not so good.
Obviously most women do not like to think of their offspring in this manner.
I bloody love kids. They're hysterical and generally all around awesome.
But do I want any? Not for one second.
I thought when I was younger I would and the plan was then and still is now to adopt if I ever decide I want kids. But I don't think I ever will. I don't have the patience for the constant attention they need. The constant inane chatter and I want I want I want. Tantrums. Lack of sleep. Constantly having to put their needs before everyone else's.
This way I get the best of both worlds. I go to my friends. Play with the kids. Spoil the kids. Then come home and don't have to worry about uniforms being ready or lunches packed etc etc etc.
The older I get the more I prefer the company of kids to adults more and more often, especially the adults of today.
The drawbacks you describe about having kids will one day be applied to the drawbacks for the person/people who will care for you in your dotage. Having to bathe you, toilet you, feed you, entertain you, listen to your inane chatter about your school days, put you back to bed when you wander around at night, dress you, tolerate your geriatric crankiness....someone will need to have the patience for the constant attention you will crave when you have nobody to pay attention to you.
Just as well we have people in society willing to be paid to look after the future-you then eh...?
The difference between us is that as a parent I will have a love in my life and my old age that you will never ever experience. No carer will love you like that.
The older I get the more I prefer the company of kids to adults more and more often, especially the adults of today.
The drawbacks you describe about having kids will one day be applied to the drawbacks for the person/people who will care for you in your dotage. Having to bathe you, toilet you, feed you, entertain you, listen to your inane chatter about your school days, put you back to bed when you wander around at night, dress you, tolerate your geriatric crankiness....someone will need to have the patience for the constant attention you will crave when you have nobody to pay attention to you.
Just as well we have people in society willing to be paid to look after the future-you then eh...?
The difference between us is that as a parent I will have a love in my life and my old age that you will never ever experience. No carer will love you like that.
Why do people like you seem to take it so personally when other people say they don't want children? Do their life choices affect you enough to warrant such mean-spiritedness?
And why are you so certain about how your later years will play out? You certainly wouldn't be the first person shoved into a nursing home at the first opportunity their children got.
Getting married and having kids is not the be all and end all of a happy life. Shame that some people can't accept that and just get on with their own lives instead of all this constant, "When you you gonna find a girlfriend" "When are you getting a place of your own?" "When are you getting engaged?" "Isn't it time you two tied the knot?" "When are you gonna have kids?" "Are you having any more kids?" etc etc. It's a pity that some people can't just be happy with what they're doing instead of trying to tell others how to live their life.
Why do people like you seem to take it so personally when other people say they don't want children? Do their life choices affect you enough to warrant such mean-spiritedness?
And why are you so certain about how your later years will play out? You certainly wouldn't be the first person shoved into a nursing home at the first opportunity their children got.
Good post - and very true. And Lyceum was actually being very positive about children, just honest.
Just because you have children that doesn't guarantee that when they're all grown up they'll want to look after aged parents. Sometimes grown up children move to another part of the country so can't be around for their parents as much as their parents might like, or emigrate, or (and I know it's an awful thought) die.
Getting married and having kids is not the be all and end all of a happy life. Shame that some people can't accept that and just get on with their own lives instead of all this constant, "When you you gonna find a girlfriend" "When are you getting a place of your own?" "When are you getting engaged?" "Isn't it time you two tied the knot?" "When are you gonna have kids?" "Are you having any more kids?" etc etc. It's a pity that some people can't just be happy with what they're doing instead of trying to tell others how to live their life.
Indeed. Luckily my dad is pretty understanding on this issue.
Comments
But most women cannot successfully carry a live healthy baby for several years before the menopause starts unless using donor egg IVF. This is because of their diminished ovarian reserve, for one. A woman going through IVF aged 45 would be advised to use donor eggs, for example.
I'm a woman and I would use 45 as the highest cut off point. Plenty of women find they are going menopausal years before this.
Right I understand now but nat still has between 10-15 years too have a kid. She still has loads of time.
What matters is your capacity and ability to care for children. If you hold off on having children for 10 years, that could be 10 years where you improve your parenting abilities and resources.
Personally, I've been ambiguous on having children for years, but with time I've only moved further away from it. I'm not opposed to individuals choosing to have children, I'm especially in favor of adoption and foster care. But I both don't want to be responsible for a child, and I think the world could do with dramatically lower birth rates. We're way past the point where having more of us is in itself useful. If we want more minds to work on problems, there are plenty around to be brought out of poverty. More humans first of all means more pollution, consuming resources at a greater rate, and an even more significant impact on all the other species that make up the ecosystem that we depend upon.
You do realise other peoples kids will be looking after you in your old age?
There is no escaping kids, whether you and your partner like it or not.
I agree, Natalie has never had a job in her life and her partner is unemployed so it would be good for her to have some life experience first and for them both to become fortunate enough to gain employment so they can give their child a better chance in life. Not that only working people should be parents, it's just that they are so young they can plan ahead.
There's loads of time for them yet, and hopefully one day their dreams will come true.
Becoming fit and healthy is a start and it will make her feel great about herself. Which in turn may possibly improve her fertility difficulties... or at least make her feel more positive about prospects for IVF.
Which is fair enough.
Except i would assume you are expecting somebody else`s child to look after you in your old age?
Or will you do all that stuff yourself?
What??????
Seriously, what's going on in this thread? People can choose not to overpopulate the planet if they wish!
I feel so sincerely for people like Shmisk who spends her life caring for other people (she's a nurse) and who's desperation for another child destroyed her relationship with her current partner.
I equally understand why some, like me, have never even thought about having children.
Nobody should be villified for making these decisions.
Agreed.
As long as they don`t expect somebody else`s children to look after them in their old age.
Yes, but it won't be children, it will be qualified staff.
At least I have saved the taxpayer family allowance during my 26 years working.
Wtf. Are you serious. Tell me it's not so.
People are employed to do a job and if that involves looking after somebody in old age then so be it.
It's got nothing to do whether one as an individual decides not to have children.
You are missing my point, the woman in question had 39 births!!!!! The wikipedia page (if you looked?) proved your point. There is no need to make an argument with me.
Lol @ you, seriously just lol
Me and my partner avoid kids where we can
But do I want any? Not for one second.
I thought when I was younger I would and the plan was then and still is now to adopt if I ever decide I want kids. But I don't think I ever will. I don't have the patience for the constant attention they need. The constant inane chatter and I want I want I want. Tantrums. Lack of sleep. Constantly having to put their needs before everyone else's.
This way I get the best of both worlds. I go to my friends. Play with the kids. Spoil the kids. Then come home and don't have to worry about uniforms being ready or lunches packed etc etc etc.
That's why it is good to be a grandparent.
Late 50s I think
Its his personality. He is ten years older so if he isnt ready now he never will b lol
Bravo.
I am a mum of six boys aged 8 to 27 and I want to see this crappy new-age shite called 'I'm not ill, I'm pregnant' relegated to the realms of fantasy that it came from back in the 80's. Pregnancy IS an illness, it DOES make you sick and often bloody damn sick at that and it can also KILL a woman and the baby she is carrying.
Pregnancy and childbirth, in my opinion, is a tightrope that all women walk especially in this day and age when we are supposed to be receiving the best and most up to date care but very often don't because budgets and staffing decide otherwise. I had four text-book pregnancies and births - the other two could have killed me had it not been for the benefits of modern medicine and fast intervention. Pregnancy is not simply a 'condition', it is a period of time when a woman's body takes on a mind of its own and carries out a process that is taken out of her hands. It can make you sick, tired and depressed - it can also be a breeze and a doddle for the entire 40 weeks. But for every woman for whom it is the latter there are more for whom it is the most difficult time of their lives. And at the end of it, unless you are too posh to push, you have to do the equivalent of pulling your top lip back over the top of your head.
Yes, we deserve a bloody medal for it!
Your baby is essentially a parasite and out to use you as they please, some women do ok with this others not so good.
Obviously most women do not like to think of their offspring in this manner.
The older I get the more I prefer the company of kids to adults more and more often, especially the adults of today.
The drawbacks you describe about having kids will one day be applied to the drawbacks for the person/people who will care for you in your dotage. Having to bathe you, toilet you, feed you, entertain you, listen to your inane chatter about your school days, put you back to bed when you wander around at night, dress you, tolerate your geriatric crankiness....someone will need to have the patience for the constant attention you will crave when you have nobody to pay attention to you.
Just as well we have people in society willing to be paid to look after the future-you then eh...?
The difference between us is that as a parent I will have a love in my life and my old age that you will never ever experience. No carer will love you like that.
So that is when you will hit it roughly
Why do people like you seem to take it so personally when other people say they don't want children? Do their life choices affect you enough to warrant such mean-spiritedness?
And why are you so certain about how your later years will play out? You certainly wouldn't be the first person shoved into a nursing home at the first opportunity their children got.
Good post - and very true. And Lyceum was actually being very positive about children, just honest.
Just because you have children that doesn't guarantee that when they're all grown up they'll want to look after aged parents. Sometimes grown up children move to another part of the country so can't be around for their parents as much as their parents might like, or emigrate, or (and I know it's an awful thought) die.
Indeed. Luckily my dad is pretty understanding on this issue.