England's young near bottom of basic skills league

BelligerenceBelligerence Posts: 40,613
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OECD finds 16-24-year-olds have literacy and numeracy levels no better than those of their grandparents' generation.

Ranked 22nd for literacy and 21st for numeracy. England is behind Estonia, Australia, Poland and Slovakia in both areas.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/oct/08/england-young-people-league-table-basic-skills-oecd

Yikes.
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Comments

  • CigaretteSmokerCigaretteSmoker Posts: 492
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    This is the legacy of the British class system.

    Working class youth are looked down on and by default put in the lowest sets where they are usually taught by new, inexperienced teachers totally disillusioned with teaching.

    Schools seldom make any real attempt to teach these pupils, rather just putting up with them until they are 16 and they can be rid of them.

    The British state education system has become so bad that parents who can afford it almost always choose private schools over state schools because they know that in private schools that standard of teaching is far better.
  • trevgotrevgo Posts: 28,241
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    Appalling.

    This is the result of decades of trendy teaching methods, militant teachers, soft governments, and non-interested parents.

    Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Let's hear the teachers Unions try and excuse this.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 318
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    It's not in the interest of any government to have an educated working class.
  • valkayvalkay Posts: 15,726
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    BBC news went to a school, and there were no white faces. Perhaps they spend too much time teaching English to immigrants and not enough time teaching core subjects.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 318
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    Nonsense. Most children can't learn because they exist in a chaotic home life. It's the parents' fault. Women with kids of multiple partners. No stability. Absent fathers. Poverty. Unemployment. Stupid people breed stupid children.

    The Finnish came top in this table. Their kids don't start school until they are seven and there are virtually no private schools.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    There are many reasons for these results, and simply blaming the system is not the answer.
  • Chris FrostChris Frost Posts: 11,015
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    This is the legacy of the British class system.

    Working class youth are looked down on and by default put in the lowest sets where they are usually taught by new, inexperienced teachers totally disillusioned with teaching.

    Schools seldom make any real attempt to teach these pupils, rather just putting up with them until they are 16 and they can be rid of them.

    The British state education system has become so bad that parents who can afford it almost always choose private schools over state schools because they know that in private schools that standard of teaching is far better.
    What complete and utter cods-wallop.

    I and many of my classmates came from working class families. Yet we were streamed to the highest sets and went on to do A-levels and go to University.

    My son is ten years old. Next September he will go to secondary school, so my wife and I spent time over the last two years visiting the local state schools to look at and monitor progress in teaching standards and results. The teaching methods may be different from my day; there is far more emphasis on the pastoral side of school life now. But there are still equally high expectations of pupil performance and the staff's drive for success. Contrary to your view, those children coming from disadvantaged backgrounds or with sub-par educational standards at the end of Key Stage Two receive additional tutoring to bring them up to standard. So extra resources are allocated to them, not less.
  • JB3JB3 Posts: 9,308
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    I think an awful lot of teachers spend an awful lot of time, creating an environment where it's conducive to learning.I think the parents of many school age children do not have the time or energy, and some the inclination, to teach their children how to behave and conduct themselves.
    This report doesn't look at the factors that may adversely affect the parent's ability to instill a degree of self discipline to their children, I wonder if , for example, it is common for both parents to work full time, because in England I don't really see it as a choice but a necessity.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 14,920
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    Txting, twitter, and internet forums where poor English is celebrated as a right because its kulchurel innit
  • claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
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    The value put on education is too low and that means a lot of disaffected children who just don't care. Parents don't value it and instil these values on their children. Teenagers are getting a constant message that popularity and success is nothing to do with how intelligent you are and in fact being smart is often derided. It's the whole 'you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink' situation - these kids just don't care and don't see the point, it's not important to them, and therefore they don't work

    Finland generally comes out top on these things because education is held in high regard there (and as someone has already stated, they start later, spend more money on it, carry out clear measures to entice top graduates and don't have a private system)
  • RegTheHedgeRegTheHedge Posts: 2,794
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    Futurenoir wrote: »
    Nonsense. Most children can't learn because they exist in a chaotic home life. It's the parents' fault. Women with kids of multiple partners. No stability. Absent fathers. Poverty. Unemployment. Stupid people breed stupid children.

    .

    Pretty well th way it is .The buck lies with the parent - and if they're lazy /stupid /disinterested,then God help the child

    A child needs teaching as much outside as inside the school gate .A good education is precious .Come on parents turn off that f-king tv.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,915
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    trevgo wrote: »
    This is the result of decades of trendy teaching methods, militant teachers, soft governments, and non-interested parents.

    More like constant government interference whilst refusing to pay for the cost of adequate education; combined with all the best teachers being creamed off by the private sector for the benefit of those who are prepared to pay for adequate education.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,916
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    I had a chat with one the parents at my eldest kids school recently and we got onto the decline in English from when we went to school, due to what I believed was text speak crap and teachers not pulling you up on it as long as they can understand what the word is meant to be. I did give out a laugh when they said (in a very serious tone), that languages evolve and what we know as English is an outdated version. Cue a very loud "WTF" from me.
  • trevgotrevgo Posts: 28,241
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    My son is ten years old. Next September he will go to secondary school, so my wife and I spent time over the last two years visiting the local state schools to look at and monitor progress in teaching standards and results. The teaching methods may be different from my day; there is far more emphasis on the pastoral side of school life now. But there are still equally high expectations of pupil performance and the staff's drive for success. Contrary to your view, those children coming from disadvantaged backgrounds or with sub-par educational standards at the end of Key Stage Two receive additional tutoring to bring them up to standard. So extra resources are allocated to them, not less.

    Fine.

    So what's your analysis of our appalling performance then?

    Maybe our kids are more obsessed with the internet and txting than in other countries, which could have a lot to do with it. There was some "progressive" educationalist on TV the other week saying that teaching handwriting and mental arithmetic was completely obsolete. Says it all, really.
  • CigaretteSmokerCigaretteSmoker Posts: 492
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    I had a chat with one the parents at my eldest kids school recently and we got onto the decline in English from when we went to school, due to what I believed was text speak crap and teachers not pulling you up on it as long as they can understand what the word is meant to be. I did give out a laugh when they said (in a very serious tone), that languages evolve and what we know as English is an outdated version. Cue a very loud "WTF" from me.

    They have a point. Most other European languages are phonetic and their spelling has evolved to mirror how the word is actually pronounced much more than English has.

    This results in languages like Italian and Finnish being much easier to spell than English.
  • Kiko H FanKiko H Fan Posts: 6,546
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    I blame Facebook.
  • CigaretteSmokerCigaretteSmoker Posts: 492
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    Much of the problem with literacy in the UK is that the English language spelling system is still based on how the language was pronounced in the 15th century.

    Finnish on the other hand is a highly phonetic language in which the words are spelt exactly how they sound.

    I would say this goes a large way to improving literacy.

    English spelling follows no logic and in most cases has to be learnt by heart.
  • cnbcwatchercnbcwatcher Posts: 56,681
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    I've noticed that attitudes to education have changed and not for the better. There seems to be a culture now where it's seen as "cool" to be thick. I also blame celebrity culture and reality TV.
  • RegTheHedgeRegTheHedge Posts: 2,794
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    They have a point. Most other European languages are phonetic and their spelling has evolved to mirror how the word is actually pronounced much more than English has.

    This results in languages like Italian and Finnish being much easier to spell than English.

    So howcome English is mastered often to a far higher degree by European kids than our own .Its just pathetic ..as is your embarrassing reasoning .
  • Archie DukeArchie Duke Posts: 1,610
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    Much of the problem with literacy in the UK is that the English language spelling system is still based on how the language was pronounced in the 15th century.

    Finnish on the other hand is a highly phonetic language in which the words are spelt exactly how they sound.

    I would say this goes a large way to improving literacy.

    Still doesn't explain how most kids 50 years ago could read, write and spell English by the time they hit Secondary School and modern kids can't.
  • irishfeenirishfeen Posts: 10,025
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    We aren't much better in Ireland at 17th... Long gone is the country of Saints and Scholars.
  • Jen-BJen-B Posts: 3,412
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    Still doesn't explain how most kids 50 years ago could read, write and spell English by the time they hit Secondary School and modern kids can't.

    It's because a lot of parents don't care about their kids' education. They didn't run through their spellings with them, and undermined the teachers when they corrected little Johnny's work.

    This is obviously a massive generalisation, however, it tends to be parents, and not schools, that have the biggest impact on a child's language development.
  • CigaretteSmokerCigaretteSmoker Posts: 492
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    The greatest minds in the UK have almost always been educated at private schools.

    I suspect that you would find that at least 80% of British Nobel Prize winners have been privately educated, while most European Nobel Prize winners have been educated at state schools.
  • CigaretteSmokerCigaretteSmoker Posts: 492
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    So howcome English is mastered often to a far higher degree by European kids than our own .Its just pathetic ..as is your embarrassing reasoning .

    I find it very hard to believe most Europeans speak better English than British people.

    The idea that Europeans speak English better than native speakers is a myth, in reality many Europeans speak very basic English.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 10,970
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    I agree with those saying the buck stops with the parents - if you watch, for example, "Educating Yorkshire" almost every child in trouble has some sort of issue going on at home. It's very sad but declining family values are getting worse and it's showing.
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