The problem is shes just not that good ..Im off to listen to some MC Lyte,Missy Elliot and Jean Grae.:)
Seriously? Missy Elliot?!
this is like Wayne from the local karoake trying to outspit Eminem
I don't think it is; there are sub-genres within rap. You can't really take a pop-rap artist like Cher will probably become and compare her to someone on the other end of the hip hop spectrum. She'll be good at what she does, but she's obviously not going to be to all tastes.
That's because it wasn't presented as an opinion. Let's refresh our memories, shall we? You said:
I would describe the above as somebody attempting to assert fact (and getting it wrong). There is a difference between an assertion and an opinion, and it would seem you don't know what that difference is.
An assertion is something declared; a positive statement without support or proof.
An opinion is an unsubtantiated belief or a conclusion.
An opinion is what you've got (which is neither 'truth' nor 'facts', by the way) but an assertion is the way you've put it. In either case, I think you're wrong.
Well done, you are (retrospectively) getting closer to trying to debate intelligently. Instead of stating what I claimed as fact you should have stated I was presenting my opinion as fact. I would have retorted I was using tabloid hyperbole as this is DS after all.
I would have, then, backed up my opinions with support. However you just saw red mist and went into attack mode to defend the mediocrity that is Cher Lloyd.
The problem is shes just not that good ..Im off to listen to some MC Lyte,Missy Elliot and Jean Grae.:)
this is like Wayne from the local karoake trying to outspit Eminem.it just wont do.
I have heard of Missy Elliot, never heard of the others.
I am off to listen to "Selling England by the Pound."
I don't think it is; there are sub-genres within rap. You can't really take a pop-rap artist like Cher will probably become and compare her to someone on the other end of the hip hop spectrum. She'll be good at what she does, but she's obviously not going to be to all tastes.
When Cher has half the plaudits and respect Missy does ill review my opinion on her.;)
so her fans see her more like Fergie than Nicki Minaj...im not going to slag her off, i just think she needs to hone her craft.:)
I have heard of Missy Elliot, never heard of the others.
I am off to listen to "Selling England by the Pound."
They put Cher Lloyds so called "skills"into perspective if you listen to them... also Remy and Kim may be much maligned but their fantastic MCs.:)
nothing wrong with a bit of classic Genesis my friend.;)
They put Cher Lloyds so called "skills"into perspective if you listen to them... also Remy and Kim may be much maligned but their fantastic MCs.:)
nothing wrong with a bit of classic Genesis my friend.;)
Instead of stating what I claimed as fact you should have stated I was presenting my opinion as fact. I would have retorted I was using tabloid hyperbole as this is DS after all.
That's a fair comment.
I would have, then, backed up my opinions with support.
People like Matt. People like Rebecca. People like One Direction. People like Cher. People like Mary.
I think Matt is terrific. You don't. You think Cher is terrific. I don't.
Please stop denying people an opinion.
Read my posts again.
We all have different tastes. We can give opinions, positive or negative on people we like/don't like.
Won't change what we like. It will just make for interesting debate on a forum.
I'm not denying anyone an opinion. I freely share mine about Matt all the time. However, I don't go around calling people who don't like Cher "bitter" or "miserable"...as Matt fans tend to do. I thought I've seen that once or twice in your posts...I could be wrong, but I'm not one to diligently research other FMs posting history.
I'm not denying anyone an opinion. I freely share mine about Matt all the time. However, I don't go around calling people who don't like Cher "bitter" or "miserable"...as Matt fans tend to do. I thought I've seen that once or twice in your posts...I could be wrong, but I'm not one to diligently research other FMs posting history.
If I give an opinion on Cher, its on her. I don't give opinions on her fans.
The problem is shes just not that good ..Im off to listen to some MC Lyte,Missy Elliot and Jean Grae.:)
this is like Wayne from the local karoake trying to outspit Eminem.it just wont do.
She should have won. At least she has presence and charisma. She may not be the best in her genre, but she's pretty darn good.
I'd rather have Cher than someone who shoves his tire-shaped frame into a white vest for some karaoke and dad-dancing, sounds like a crying baby that's been abandoned, and thinks he's a real "artist" because he's been writing shit music that no one cared to listen to for 12 years.
In 24 months, Cher will still be relevant in the music industry. This year's XF "winner" will be touring with Steve Brookstein and comparing bitter lemons.
She should have won. At least she has presence and charisma. She may not be the best in her genre, but she's pretty darn good.
I'd rather have Cher than someone who shoves his tire-shaped frame into a white vest for some karaoke and dad-dancing, sounds like a crying baby that's been abandoned, and thinks he's a real "artist" because he's been writing shit music that no one cared to listen to for 12 years.
In 24 months, Cher will still be relevant in the music industry. This year's XF "winner" will be touring with Steve Brookstein and comparing bitter lemons.
I really doubt Cher will be relevant in 24 weeks. I think the industry will chew her up, use her while she has some name value, then spit her out. Why would anyone be interested in her unless they could make cash from her ?
Cher has no charisma and no stage presence. True she has a better stage presence than Rebecca although Rebecca has more singing ability.
Cher got around 11% of the vote. She was miles behind the winner. Of course she should not have won. That would be like saying Burnley should have won the Premiership last year.
She should have won. At least she has presence and charisma. She may not be the best in her genre, but she's pretty darn good.
...
In 24 months, Cher will still be relevant in the music industry.
I don't challenge your right to an opinion, but I don't agree that
1. she should have won - she was not popular across the spectrum
2. she has 'presence' - well, she may have bought that Led Zeppelin album, but there is no sign that she has learned stage-craft and professionalism from Robert Plant's example
3. she has charisma - she showed herself to be a moody teenager who alternated between nervous tears and cold fury - that is not 'charisma' - it is merely 'attitude' and she can only get away with that if
4. she's pretty darn good - which I don't think she is. Rap and Hip-Hop are not my favourite genre, but I have heard enough to have an opinion. In my opinion, she is a mediocre singer who wants to be a rapper - on the show, her 'Stay' was far and away her best performance - there's no reason that she shouldn't follow her dream, but I only plan to listen out of curosity when she does. perhaps she should join a band so that she can learn from other people.
5. still be relevant in 2 years - only if some music company throws its weigh behind her - she won't attract enough of a following any other way. she's not got a likeable image.
sorry, but Cher is merely a TV show curiosity IMO.
I really doubt Cher will be relevant in 24 weeks. I think the industry will chew her up, use her while she has some name value, then spit her out. Why would anyone be interested in her unless they could make cash from her ?
Cher has no charisma and no stage presence. True she has a better stage presence than Rebecca although Rebecca has more singing ability.
Cher got around 11% of the vote. She was miles behind the winner. Of course she should not have won. That would be like saying Burnley should have won the Premiership last year.
She is to rap what Chloe Mufia is to the sex industry...not much cop.:o:p
Your view, like that of the other Cher fanatics (the handful of you out there) is that the anti's are all tabloid dupes and the pro's are all free thinkers.
You are determined to take everything I say so far out of context it's laughable. Perhaps you should take up a job in a newspaper Are you even listening? I am not saying the detractors are ALL tabloid dupes, and I said it's fine if people have observed her and don't like her. But fact is, I have seen a lot of the detractors (including you, like this thread as a fine example) use the tabloids as fuel for the rabid tirades.
What makes you think the reference points are tabloid stories. There are many other points of reference than the tabloids.
So far, I've only seen you use tabloids as backup of the more extreme things you've said.
She is hardly the newest hot property. If she was she would not be playing a small venue on The Wirral with Wagner. She comes across as vain, conceited and rather arrogant. Fortunately most of the young people of today are not like that.
All of the X-factor people play clubs, I don't know if it's in contract to do so, but they all do and it has no bearing on how successful they'll be. Definitely not hot property at all eh, all of the final four this year are, they all have deals already! Oh and Will.i.am and Jay-z (if true) are just a fiction of all our imaginations right She can't win, if no one was interested in signing her she'd be getting ragged on and when people are interested in working with her, promoting her and signing her, that's wrong too and will fail. :rolleyes:
I really doubt Cher will be relevant in 24 weeks. I think the industry will chew her up, use her while she has some name value, then spit her out. Why would anyone be interested in her unless they could make cash from her ?
Cher has no charisma and no stage presence. True she has a better stage presence than Rebecca although Rebecca has more singing ability.
Cher got around 11% of the vote. She was miles behind the winner. Of course she should not have won. That would be like saying Burnley should have won the Premiership last year.
All opinion apart from the bolded. Whether you like it or not, there are people out there including Simon, Cheryl and Will that think she has potential to make it (she would not be signed otherwise) and no one aside from them know their true motives for being interested in her and to imply otherwise is just bias assumption.
With what respect is due, who cares what you do or don't dout?
I think the industry will chew her up, use her while she has some name value, then spit her out.
Yeah that's one forecast. Another, just as valid and possible as yours, is that 'the industry' will boil down to a label who - having invested in her - will try to ensure longevity. Not everybody is after the shortest possible profit, after all.
Why would anyone be interested in her unless they could make cash from her ?
And why would she be interested in anyone unless she could make some cash from them? Like any music artist, it's a two way street. That's why contracts are important.
Cher has no charisma and no stage presence.
A meaningless thing to say. I could reply 'yes she does'. Who cares what you (or I) think? Obviously she has a whole load of fans, and people who - for some reason - have taken exception to her.
Cher got around 11% of the vote. She was miles behind the winner. Of course she should not have won.
The person who gets the most votes isn't necessarily the winner; that's a very naive perception. Cher has an adolescent anti-hero X Factor appeal, more so than any other contestant in the show's history. There's a career in that if her management play their cards correctly.
Ultimately, I think it's inarguable she has talent and a certain attitude ('swag' if you must) - surely that transcends the opinions of anybody but the most deluded of haters.
Again, you don't like her but ultimately that doesn't count for much, because there are more people who do.
With what respect is due, who cares what you do or don't dout?
Yeah that's one forecast. Another, just as valid and possible as yours, is that 'the industry' will boil down to a label who - having invested in her - will try to ensure longevity. Not everybody is after the shortest possible profit, after all.
And why would she be interested in anyone unless she could make some cash from them? Like any music artist, it's a two way street. That's why contracts are important.
A meaningless thing to say. I could reply 'yes she does'. Who cares what you (or I) think? Obviously she has a whole load of fans, and people who - for some reason - have taken exception to her.
The person who gets the most votes isn't necessarily the winner; that's a very naive perception. Cher has an adolescent anti-hero X Factor appeal, more so than any other contestant in the show's history. There's a career in that if her management play their cards correctly.
Ultimately, I think it's inarguable she has talent and a certain attitude ('swag' if you must) - surely that transcends the opinions of anybody but the most deluded of haters.
Again, you don't like her but ultimately that doesn't count for much, because there are more people who do.
:eek: Ah here now. Cher an anti-hero? Why? Musical anti-horoes are/were Marc Bolan, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Debbie Harry, Johnny Rotten..........:eek:
They'd piss themselves laughing at a 17 year old tottering around in too much make-up carrying a designer handbag that's bigger than her torso and fainting in delight at performing with WillIAren't. She's like a parody of the establishment. Seriously. It's fine if people like her, but an adolescent anti-hero? Surely this generation can do better than Cher..........
Within the context of X Factor, I meant. Obviously she's not Johnny Rotten, but she's not Rebecca Ferguson either and within that little world, she could be called an anti-hero.
Comments
Seriously? Missy Elliot?!
I don't think it is; there are sub-genres within rap. You can't really take a pop-rap artist like Cher will probably become and compare her to someone on the other end of the hip hop spectrum. She'll be good at what she does, but she's obviously not going to be to all tastes.
Well done, you are (retrospectively) getting closer to trying to debate intelligently. Instead of stating what I claimed as fact you should have stated I was presenting my opinion as fact. I would have retorted I was using tabloid hyperbole as this is DS after all.
I would have, then, backed up my opinions with support. However you just saw red mist and went into attack mode to defend the mediocrity that is Cher Lloyd.
You think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong.
C'Est La Vie.
I have heard of Missy Elliot, never heard of the others.
I am off to listen to "Selling England by the Pound."
When Cher has half the plaudits and respect Missy does ill review my opinion on her.;)
so her fans see her more like Fergie than Nicki Minaj...im not going to slag her off, i just think she needs to hone her craft.:)
They put Cher Lloyds so called "skills"into perspective if you listen to them... also Remy and Kim may be much maligned but their fantastic MCs.:)
nothing wrong with a bit of classic Genesis my friend.;)
:cool:
That's a fair comment.
Possibly.
Yip
I'm not denying anyone an opinion. I freely share mine about Matt all the time. However, I don't go around calling people who don't like Cher "bitter" or "miserable"...as Matt fans tend to do. I thought I've seen that once or twice in your posts...I could be wrong, but I'm not one to diligently research other FMs posting history.
If I give an opinion on Cher, its on her. I don't give opinions on her fans.
I think you have me mixed up with someone else.;)
She should have won. At least she has presence and charisma. She may not be the best in her genre, but she's pretty darn good.
I'd rather have Cher than someone who shoves his tire-shaped frame into a white vest for some karaoke and dad-dancing, sounds like a crying baby that's been abandoned, and thinks he's a real "artist" because he's been writing shit music that no one cared to listen to for 12 years.
In 24 months, Cher will still be relevant in the music industry. This year's XF "winner" will be touring with Steve Brookstein and comparing bitter lemons.
Of course, I made it. :cool:
Cheap shot.
That is all there is in life. Shades of Grey.
I really doubt Cher will be relevant in 24 weeks. I think the industry will chew her up, use her while she has some name value, then spit her out. Why would anyone be interested in her unless they could make cash from her ?
Cher has no charisma and no stage presence. True she has a better stage presence than Rebecca although Rebecca has more singing ability.
Cher got around 11% of the vote. She was miles behind the winner. Of course she should not have won. That would be like saying Burnley should have won the Premiership last year.
I don't challenge your right to an opinion, but I don't agree that
1. she should have won - she was not popular across the spectrum
2. she has 'presence' - well, she may have bought that Led Zeppelin album, but there is no sign that she has learned stage-craft and professionalism from Robert Plant's example
3. she has charisma - she showed herself to be a moody teenager who alternated between nervous tears and cold fury - that is not 'charisma' - it is merely 'attitude' and she can only get away with that if
4. she's pretty darn good - which I don't think she is. Rap and Hip-Hop are not my favourite genre, but I have heard enough to have an opinion. In my opinion, she is a mediocre singer who wants to be a rapper - on the show, her 'Stay' was far and away her best performance - there's no reason that she shouldn't follow her dream, but I only plan to listen out of curosity when she does. perhaps she should join a band so that she can learn from other people.
5. still be relevant in 2 years - only if some music company throws its weigh behind her - she won't attract enough of a following any other way. she's not got a likeable image.
sorry, but Cher is merely a TV show curiosity IMO.
She is to rap what Chloe Mufia is to the sex industry...not much cop.:o:p
You are determined to take everything I say so far out of context it's laughable. Perhaps you should take up a job in a newspaper
So far, I've only seen you use tabloids as backup of the more extreme things you've said.
All of the X-factor people play clubs, I don't know if it's in contract to do so, but they all do and it has no bearing on how successful they'll be. Definitely not hot property at all eh, all of the final four this year are, they all have deals already! Oh and Will.i.am and Jay-z (if true) are just a fiction of all our imaginations right
All opinion apart from the bolded. Whether you like it or not, there are people out there including Simon, Cheryl and Will that think she has potential to make it (she would not be signed otherwise) and no one aside from them know their true motives for being interested in her and to imply otherwise is just bias assumption.
With what respect is due, who cares what you do or don't dout?
Yeah that's one forecast. Another, just as valid and possible as yours, is that 'the industry' will boil down to a label who - having invested in her - will try to ensure longevity. Not everybody is after the shortest possible profit, after all.
And why would she be interested in anyone unless she could make some cash from them? Like any music artist, it's a two way street. That's why contracts are important.
A meaningless thing to say. I could reply 'yes she does'. Who cares what you (or I) think? Obviously she has a whole load of fans, and people who - for some reason - have taken exception to her.
The person who gets the most votes isn't necessarily the winner; that's a very naive perception. Cher has an adolescent anti-hero X Factor appeal, more so than any other contestant in the show's history. There's a career in that if her management play their cards correctly.
Ultimately, I think it's inarguable she has talent and a certain attitude ('swag' if you must) - surely that transcends the opinions of anybody but the most deluded of haters.
Again, you don't like her but ultimately that doesn't count for much, because there are more people who do.
Huh ?
Dropped the 'b' in 'doubt', obviously.
:eek: Ah here now. Cher an anti-hero? Why? Musical anti-horoes are/were Marc Bolan, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Debbie Harry, Johnny Rotten..........:eek:
They'd piss themselves laughing at a 17 year old tottering around in too much make-up carrying a designer handbag that's bigger than her torso and fainting in delight at performing with WillIAren't. She's like a parody of the establishment. Seriously. It's fine if people like her, but an adolescent anti-hero? Surely this generation can do better than Cher..........
Within the context of X Factor, I meant. Obviously she's not Johnny Rotten, but she's not Rebecca Ferguson either and within that little world, she could be called an anti-hero.