Now I look into it, 'the darkness' goes way back - it looks like being RTD's single biggest plot arc. Which is nice.
I'm still puzzled about the TurnLeft-o-verse. I don't think the stars going out had anything to do with the 27-planet transdimensional shift thing - I think that only happens in our reality. In the Doctorless TL-verse, the stars just... go out (cf. the ep 13 trailer, and never mind the light years for the moment). So the 27-planet thing must be for something that wouldn't be needed if the Doctor were out of the way.
Mind you, if the Doctor had died during TRB presumably the Daleks would have taken over New York and built their transmitter thing by now - but on the other hand, Dalek Caan would never have had to do the emergency temporal shift & hence wouldn't have rescued Davros. Perhaps these alternate realities don't bear too much thinking about.
Star Trek has Warp Drives and Photon Torpedoes, Star Wars has Light Sabres (TM), SG1 has Stargates, HG Wells has a Time Machine (well obviously HG Wells doesn't...unlesss it's an episode of The New Adventures fo Superman), the X-Men and The Hulk has radiation that creatues mutant superheroes and not just terminal cancer.
Do you "get" the science behind any of this?
Does it matter?
Does your not understanding the made up science hinder your enjoyment of the films/shows?
Does it matter?
Why?
It's science fiction technobabble, a new name for an old trick.
Warp drives are pure fiction. We're not supposed to understand how they work.
However, concepts such as time travel are supposed to be understandable. If a character says they're travelling 100 years into the future, you wouldn't expect them to arrive 100 years into the past. Time travel may not be possible, but that doesn't mean the audience don't understand the concept. The concept is understandable.
The Earth is shielded / cloaked / out of phase / out of sinc / adrift from time / fogged.
Whatever the word is it means it's hidden
If they'd said the earth was hidden through some other "technobabble" means, I would have accepted that. But they said the earth was actually just 1 second away in time.
Saying the earth simply hasn't arrived yet, and it will arrive in 1 second, puts things into terms that every person can understand. We've all waited for a train we knew was arriving in 1 minute's time. We all know that you don't need a time machine to wait that minute, and if you wait the minute, the train will (hopefully) arrive.
Warp drives are pure fiction. We're not supposed to understand how they work.
However, concepts such as time travel are supposed to be understandable. If a character says they're travelling 100 years into the future, you wouldn't expect them to arrive 100 years into the past. Time travel may not be possible, but that doesn't mean the audience don't understand the concept. The concept is understandable.
If they'd said the earth was hidden through some other "technobabble" means, I would have accepted that. But they said the earth was actually just 1 second away in time.
Saying the earth simply hasn't arrived yet, and it will arrive in 1 second, puts things into terms that every person can understand. We've all waited for a train we knew was arriving in 1 minute's time. We all know that you don't need a time machine to wait that minute, and if you wait the minute, the train will (hopefully) arrive.
Isn't time travel in DW is usually down to wormholes - relative dimensions?
In "The Time Machine", the impression given, is that George is traveling through years to come, but experiencing them at a greatly accelerated rate. He seems to exist at every point in time between A and B, but only for the tinyest wink of an eye from his perspective. To the onlooker at the point of his leaving, it would appear as though he vanishes as he no longer exists in their time frame (or relative dimension) as he's "jumped" into the future. No onlooker would spot him in their own time frame during his travelling, as the time traveller's dimension is more of a wormhole through the onlooker's dimension - shrinking time and always ahead of the onlooker at any fixed point in their existence.
So if he travels from 1899 to 1901, and it takes him a minute, and he's therefore existed in every point in time between those years, then why don't we see him "frozen" in the same place through the whole of 1900? Perhaps because you're in your dimension, and he's in his? You can't be in both unless you're the one doing the time travelling. You're either living his minute, or you're living your year, and as he's travelling through your dimension, it would be visible to him, but as you're not travelling through his dimension, which is more of a wormhole from point A to B, existing alongside your dimension, you won't see him. If he stays in that wormhole, you'll never see him.
So if he jumps into the future by one second, then he'll vanish from the sight of the onlooker, and wouldn't become visible until that second has passed. If he keeps jumping into the future by one second, then he'll always be one second ahead of the onlooker, and would never become visible. A wormholey thing. As soon as the onlooker enters that time-space in his own dimension, ie. one second into their own future, the time traveller's own dimension will still be one second ahead or that, and he will remain continually out of phase with the onlooker's dimension.
Not sure different dimensions was mentioned with the DW explanation, but then that was the confusing bit - I thought we were told the earth had moved, along with 26 other planets, to far across the universe. So if it's actually moved, then what's the point in putting it out of phase by a second so it just appears to vanish? F*** it! I've forgotten, and I'm not watching it again! Probably best to just ignore the fact it ever happened... unless someone has put a bit more thought into explaining it and can enlighten us?
If they'd said the earth was hidden through some other "technobabble" means, I would have accepted that. But they said the earth was actually just 1 second away in time.
Well, actually the Doctor said it was hidden away in a 'pocket of time', which is why I thought a phasing thing rather than a straight-forward 1-second in the future.
It's been mentioned twice now that the Medusa Cascade is/was the location of a rift. Maybe that gives it special properties that makes it suitable for hiding purposes.
The Earth is not destroyed; neither is the human race; neither is the Doctor.
(But it will have been a pretty close thing.)
Very high probability:
Donna dies
Rose gets put back in the Lumic universe with the implication that the Doctor really will never see her again, no really this time.
The Daleks are totally, utterly and utterly totally defeated. Again. Probably without even the whisper of a get-out clause (two emergency temporal shifts is at least one too many).
David Tennant regenerates into... David Tennant. Somehow or other. Something to do with the hand, probably.
Interesting possibilities:
Donna doesn't die but gets reverted to being one of RTD's beloved clubbers and Heat-readers.
Donna is the Master! Ugh. I really hope not. Besides, why would she have been warping time since she was born? (Unless she was 'born' as a fully-grown retcon, a la Dawn in Buffy.)
Harriet Jones is in league with the Daleks! I don't think so - what would be in it for her? But it does look like there's something going on.
David Tennant regenerates into David Tennant... and David Tennant. Naaah. Can't see it.
David Tennant regenerates into David Tennant and David Morrissey. Now that I'd like to see, but I don't think either 10 or RTD could bring it off with a straight face.
And finally, the name of the guest star substitute-companion for at least one of next year's specials:
Feel the need to jump in ont he 1 second thing.
It's been used elsewhere as a way of hiding things.
WE seem to be stuck on the idea that time is linear (1 dimensional) but space isn't (3 dimensional)
If we add another dimension to time we have a solution.
Treat time as a river, we flow along it downstream at 1 second per second, but time travelers can skip along the surfaceto other points.
Now if there was a ripple in time, the surface would me raised at right angles to the direction of mevement (i.e. time's second dimension). That ripple may flow downstream at 1 second per second, but can never be reached just by staying on the surface.
Extra oomph is needed to climb the ripple and find whatever is surfing on it.
I watched this again last night on the BBC I Player and it truely is one of the best episodes I had ever seen!
It's got the lot hasn't it?
This is one of the episodes I can watch over and over and never get bored with it!
And I still cried at Rose and The Doctor running towards each other, the look on David's face during that scene is incredible!
Agree Davids face was brilliant in that scene -totally lit up with joy at seeing Rose then the attack from the Dalek -every emotion and brilliant stuff from a stunning episode.:)
Comments
I'm still puzzled about the TurnLeft-o-verse. I don't think the stars going out had anything to do with the 27-planet transdimensional shift thing - I think that only happens in our reality. In the Doctorless TL-verse, the stars just... go out (cf. the ep 13 trailer, and never mind the light years for the moment). So the 27-planet thing must be for something that wouldn't be needed if the Doctor were out of the way.
Mind you, if the Doctor had died during TRB presumably the Daleks would have taken over New York and built their transmitter thing by now - but on the other hand, Dalek Caan would never have had to do the emergency temporal shift & hence wouldn't have rescued Davros. Perhaps these alternate realities don't bear too much thinking about.
When the Doctor gets shot and Rose runs to him does she say "It missed you. Look, it's me!" (eg. the shot didn't hit him fully) or "I missed you"??
I want it to be the second one, but when I was watching again last night it sounded like 'it' instead, which would also fit!
?
According to http://wikitle.com/season/8/4 it was
"I've got you, it missed you. Look, it's me."
You can't always get what you want.
I feel someone ought to tell the fanfiction writers, i've read rather a lot which have used the more romantic version...
Cheers!
However, concepts such as time travel are supposed to be understandable. If a character says they're travelling 100 years into the future, you wouldn't expect them to arrive 100 years into the past. Time travel may not be possible, but that doesn't mean the audience don't understand the concept. The concept is understandable.
If they'd said the earth was hidden through some other "technobabble" means, I would have accepted that. But they said the earth was actually just 1 second away in time.
Saying the earth simply hasn't arrived yet, and it will arrive in 1 second, puts things into terms that every person can understand. We've all waited for a train we knew was arriving in 1 minute's time. We all know that you don't need a time machine to wait that minute, and if you wait the minute, the train will (hopefully) arrive.
In "The Time Machine", the impression given, is that George is traveling through years to come, but experiencing them at a greatly accelerated rate. He seems to exist at every point in time between A and B, but only for the tinyest wink of an eye from his perspective. To the onlooker at the point of his leaving, it would appear as though he vanishes as he no longer exists in their time frame (or relative dimension) as he's "jumped" into the future. No onlooker would spot him in their own time frame during his travelling, as the time traveller's dimension is more of a wormhole through the onlooker's dimension - shrinking time and always ahead of the onlooker at any fixed point in their existence.
So if he travels from 1899 to 1901, and it takes him a minute, and he's therefore existed in every point in time between those years, then why don't we see him "frozen" in the same place through the whole of 1900? Perhaps because you're in your dimension, and he's in his? You can't be in both unless you're the one doing the time travelling. You're either living his minute, or you're living your year, and as he's travelling through your dimension, it would be visible to him, but as you're not travelling through his dimension, which is more of a wormhole from point A to B, existing alongside your dimension, you won't see him. If he stays in that wormhole, you'll never see him.
So if he jumps into the future by one second, then he'll vanish from the sight of the onlooker, and wouldn't become visible until that second has passed. If he keeps jumping into the future by one second, then he'll always be one second ahead of the onlooker, and would never become visible. A wormholey thing. As soon as the onlooker enters that time-space in his own dimension, ie. one second into their own future, the time traveller's own dimension will still be one second ahead or that, and he will remain continually out of phase with the onlooker's dimension.
Not sure different dimensions was mentioned with the DW explanation, but then that was the confusing bit - I thought we were told the earth had moved, along with 26 other planets, to far across the universe. So if it's actually moved, then what's the point in putting it out of phase by a second so it just appears to vanish? F*** it! I've forgotten, and I'm not watching it again! Probably best to just ignore the fact it ever happened... unless someone has put a bit more thought into explaining it and can enlighten us?
Well, actually the Doctor said it was hidden away in a 'pocket of time', which is why I thought a phasing thing rather than a straight-forward 1-second in the future.
It's been mentioned twice now that the Medusa Cascade is/was the location of a rift. Maybe that gives it special properties that makes it suitable for hiding purposes.
Regards,
Cypher
The Earth is not destroyed; neither is the human race; neither is the Doctor.
(But it will have been a pretty close thing.)
Very high probability:
Rose gets put back in the Lumic universe with the implication that the Doctor really will never see her again, no really this time.
The Daleks are totally, utterly and utterly totally defeated. Again. Probably without even the whisper of a get-out clause (two emergency temporal shifts is at least one too many).
David Tennant regenerates into... David Tennant. Somehow or other. Something to do with the hand, probably.
Donna is the Master! Ugh. I really hope not. Besides, why would she have been warping time since she was born? (Unless she was 'born' as a fully-grown retcon, a la Dawn in Buffy.)
Harriet Jones is in league with the Daleks! I don't think so - what would be in it for her? But it does look like there's something going on.
David Tennant regenerates into David Tennant... and David Tennant. Naaah. Can't see it.
David Tennant regenerates into David Tennant and David Morrissey. Now that I'd like to see, but I don't think either 10 or RTD could bring it off with a straight face.
And finally, the name of the guest star substitute-companion for at least one of next year's specials:
It's been used elsewhere as a way of hiding things.
WE seem to be stuck on the idea that time is linear (1 dimensional) but space isn't (3 dimensional)
If we add another dimension to time we have a solution.
Treat time as a river, we flow along it downstream at 1 second per second, but time travelers can skip along the surfaceto other points.
Now if there was a ripple in time, the surface would me raised at right angles to the direction of mevement (i.e. time's second dimension). That ripple may flow downstream at 1 second per second, but can never be reached just by staying on the surface.
Extra oomph is needed to climb the ripple and find whatever is surfing on it.
Or, wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff.
It's got the lot hasn't it?
This is one of the episodes I can watch over and over and never get bored with it!
And I still cried at Rose and The Doctor running towards each other, the look on David's face during that scene is incredible!
Agree Davids face was brilliant in that scene -totally lit up with joy at seeing Rose then the attack from the Dalek -every emotion and brilliant stuff from a stunning episode.:)
I then started reading this thread again, particularly from page 25 onwards, the similarities are really quite amazing....:)