But a lot of what are deemed Madonna's ideas were not in fact her ideas or original ideas at all; in fact some of her most iconic moments were done years before by other people, she simply rehashed and recycled a lot of things and her fans lapped it up as the second coming. It's quite amusing that her fans insist everything she's done is 100% original and she was the first to do it. Madonna hasn't had a single song on any of her studio albums since Like a Virgin (Shoo-Bee-Doo) that has been credited to just her as being the writer, a lot of the albums had multiple writers and producers working on one track. How much input Madonna actually had into a lot of those songs is dubious at best. Just check out the number of credits on MDNA.
i don't think the poster you quoted stated she was 100% original or suggested she was "the first to do it" and they pegged her involvement in the creative process at 90%
i am also very aware of your continued amusement at the expense of madonna fans, so while we are on the subject of originality and madonna once again, perhaps you would care to respond to this reply i posted in response to you a couple of days ago?
feel free to message me privately to discuss this and my other findings if you prefer.:)
2, Madonna is an average singer, but her ideas and visions make her an outstanding artist. As a songwriter, she was involved in 90% of her discography and had absolute creative control. Many of her songs aged well and stood the test of time. She had always more reasons for being sexual than just attention seeking, unlike most of pop stars today.
A person can only have so much creative control when a) there are so many other people involved in the creative process and b) a person has limitations to what they can actually do in the studio during that creative process. Madonna doesn't have the musical talent to take complete control of a project. She needs people to realise a lot of the ideas simply because she can't do most of it herself. It's not like she's Joni Mitchell who has composed, produced and arranged whole albums by herself as well as playing multiple instruments and painting the covers. Now THAT'S complete creative control.
Madonna isn't the musical genius that a lot of people peg her as being. I'd perhaps agree with people calling her that had she actually sat down and composed and produced these classic songs by herself like so many other artists do all the time. She needs the hugely talented writers and producers just as much as most other pop singers out there, it's just a lot of her fans are reluctant to admit this. Madonna has always had a great team behind her who are largely responsible for her continued success. She's no different to Rihanna in a lot of ways. Do you think Madonna would have survived the 1990s had she not worked with R&B producers like Dallas Austin, Babyface and Dave "Jam" Hall in 1994 when the R&B market was huge? How about her working with William Orbit on Ray of Light when electronic/dance/trip hop music was popular in the 1990s thanks to bands and singers like Leftfield, Sneaker Pimps, Massive Attack, Portishead, Tricky, etc. Then there's her working with Timbaland,The Neptunes and Danja in 2008 when the R&B dance/pop sound was popular. People call Madonna a trendsetter but she's mostly a follower, looking at what is popular at the time and using that as a guide for her own work. She's a sponge, soaking up ideas of those around here. As Cyndi Lauper once said: "She is brilliant at selling, and she didn't fight her record company the way I did. I think the secret behind her success is that she would find someone who was really successful at what she wanted to do - a writer or a producer - and do it with them."
... or the thread for the ignorant to show how ignorant they are.
why because they don't follow the norm? Its not against the law to dislike something that was popular, I think calling people ignorant because its offended you that not everyone likes the beatles is pretty petty.
Here's one that may be unpopular, particularly on this forum.
Lyrics should never mention any technology that didn't exist in the 1950s.
Cars, television, radio, records, rockets, spaceships etc. are all fine; iPhones, internet, MP3s, Facebook etc. all bad. Computers are ok but they should bring to mind big rooms full of flashing lights, spinning tapes and people in white coats rather than a laptop.
The only loophole in this law is that you are allowed to mention post-1959 technology as long as you do so in a sneering, cynical way.
Here's one that may be unpopular, particularly on this forum.
Lyrics should never mention any technology that didn't exist in the 1950s.
Cars, television, radio, records, rockets, spaceships etc. are all fine; iPhones, internet, MP3s, Facebook etc. all bad. Computers are ok but they should bring to mind big rooms full of flashing lights, spinning tapes and people in white coats rather than a laptop.
The only loophole in this law is that you are allowed to mention post-1959 technology as long as you do so in a sneering, cynical way.
I agree. The songs mentioning iPhones, Facebook etc. are going to sound hilariously dated in 10-20 years time. Gary Numan's 'Cars' is still going to be a classic by that time. Wiley's 'Can You Hear Me' will not.
[QUOTE=Fear of Fours;69146504Madonna hasn't had a single song on any of her studio albums since Like a Virgin (Shoo-Bee-Doo) that has been credited to just her as being the writer, a lot of the albums had multiple writers and producers working on one track. How much input Madonna actually had into a lot of those songs is dubious at best. Just check out the number of credits on MDNA.[/QUOTE]
And the title track wasn't even written by her. Even Into The Groove which she supposedly wrote has some doubt cast whether she or her boyfriend at the time Steve Bray actually was responsible for the song.
Squatch I agree with all your points except no 4. Adele has a great voice and totally wastes it singing boring dirges. Don't get me started on Rihanna! Bad attitude, rude abd generally unattractive.
I also dislike Beyoncé. She over sings everything to death anf struts around like she's god's gift. Very annoying!
i don't think the poster you quoted stated she was 100% original or suggested she was "the first to do it" and they pegged her involvement in the creative process at 90%
i am also very aware of your continued amusement at the expense of madonna fans, so while we are on the subject of originality and madonna once again, perhaps you would care to respond to this reply i posted in response to you a couple of days ago?
feel free to message me privately to discuss this and my other findings if you prefer.:)
I'm very interested in hearing FoFs reply to your post as well.
Genesis was better with Phil Collins as the frontman. I love Peter Gabriel, but I don't really care for his Genesis.
Fleetwood Mac's best album is Tango in the Night. Likewise, Wish You Were Here is better than Dark Side of the Moon.
I kind of agree about Genesis, teh Collins stuff just post Gabriel is amongst my favorite. op Genesis was good for waht it was, but Wind and Wuthering is such a good album.
Agreed re Fleetwood Mac
Not sure with Floyd, Dark Side is a bloody good album and stads up far better than Gabriels Genesis "progresssive masterpiece" The Lamb Lies Down
why because they don't follow the norm? Its not against the law to dislike something that was popular, I think calling people ignorant because its offended you that not everyone likes the beatles is pretty petty.
you dont get it obviously...
theres a difference between giving an 'unpopular' opinion based on reason and thought, and just burting out a load of tripe which is factually incorrect.
oh, and when have i EVER said that im offended because not everybody likes the beatles? everyone is free to like or dislike whoever the want. theres a difference between liking the beatles and having a respect for their contribution to music.
theres a difference between giving an 'unpopular' opinion based on reason and thought, and just burting out a load of tripe which is factually incorrect.
oh, and when have i EVER said that im offended because not everybody likes the beatles? everyone is free to like or dislike whoever the want. theres a difference between liking the beatles and having a respect for their contribution to music.
I think you dont get it at all, unpopular means going against the norm, not everyone thinks the beatles were great or there songs as "groundbreaking music". Having respect for what? There early song were nothing but pop rubbish and beatlemania is nothing more than the original one direction mania were seeing now. Yes i'm aware the beatles wrote and played music before that argument comes back for the 100000000th time.
You seem to hijack threads that say something bad about the beatles, i await the producer and mega star unique to join the thread very soon.
Calling people ignorant or saying its a load of tripe is petty.
If everyone had the same views then the world would be a sad place.
A person can only have so much creative control when a) there are so many other people involved in the creative process and b) a person has limitations to what they can actually do in the studio during that creative process. Madonna doesn't have the musical talent to take complete control of a project. She needs people to realise a lot of the ideas simply because she can't do most of it herself. It's not like she's Joni Mitchell who has composed, produced and arranged whole albums by herself as well as playing multiple instruments and painting the covers. Now THAT'S complete creative control.
Madonna isn't the musical genius that a lot of people peg her as being. I'd perhaps agree with people calling her that had she actually sat down and composed and produced these classic songs by herself like so many other artists do all the time. She needs the hugely talented writers and producers just as much as most other pop singers out there, it's just a lot of her fans are reluctant to admit this. Madonna has always had a great team behind her who are largely responsible for her continued success. She's no different to Rihanna in a lot of ways. Do you think Madonna would have survived the 1990s had she not worked with R&B producers like Dallas Austin, Babyface and Dave "Jam" Hall in 1994 when the R&B market was huge? How about her working with William Orbit on Ray of Light when electronic/dance/trip hop music was popular in the 1990s thanks to bands and singers like Leftfield, Sneaker Pimps, Massive Attack, Portishead, Tricky, etc. Then there's her working with Timbaland,The Neptunes and Danja in 2008 when the R&B dance/pop sound was popular. People call Madonna a trendsetter but she's mostly a follower, looking at what is popular at the time and using that as a guide for her own work. She's a sponge, soaking up ideas of those around here. As Cyndi Lauper once said: "She is brilliant at selling, and she didn't fight her record company the way I did. I think the secret behind her success is that she would find someone who was really successful at what she wanted to do - a writer or a producer - and do it with them."
Madonna had always picked great team of people who helped her to realize her visions and concepts, just like many other great artists. She knew that she needs to work with the best producents and staff, just like every person wants to work with the best people in their field. It's completely understandable and I don't know what's your problem with it.
I saw some of your posts and I don't think it's possible to have rational dialogue with you because of your lack of objectivity when it comes to Madonna, so I will just leave it at that.
Punk was a vastly overrated music form that placed the emphasis on attitude over musicianship and looking at the charts from 1977, the year of punk, disco, pop, hard rock and novelty records totally outsold it.
Jay Kay has far more talent than Nicki Minaj, will.i.am, One Direction, Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus combined, and that's not even taking into account the rest of Jamiroquai; they are seriously underrated these days. I also agree with what he said about The X Factor back in 2010 - it is more of a TV celebrity show than a talent contest. Plus, I think Jamiroquai were way ahead of their time with the messages in Emergency on Planet Earth and Virtual Insanity. However, my favourite Jamiroquai song is Mr Moon.
Comments
i don't think the poster you quoted stated she was 100% original or suggested she was "the first to do it" and they pegged her involvement in the creative process at 90%
i am also very aware of your continued amusement at the expense of madonna fans, so while we are on the subject of originality and madonna once again, perhaps you would care to respond to this reply i posted in response to you a couple of days ago?
feel free to message me privately to discuss this and my other findings if you prefer.:)
A person can only have so much creative control when a) there are so many other people involved in the creative process and b) a person has limitations to what they can actually do in the studio during that creative process. Madonna doesn't have the musical talent to take complete control of a project. She needs people to realise a lot of the ideas simply because she can't do most of it herself. It's not like she's Joni Mitchell who has composed, produced and arranged whole albums by herself as well as playing multiple instruments and painting the covers. Now THAT'S complete creative control.
Madonna isn't the musical genius that a lot of people peg her as being. I'd perhaps agree with people calling her that had she actually sat down and composed and produced these classic songs by herself like so many other artists do all the time. She needs the hugely talented writers and producers just as much as most other pop singers out there, it's just a lot of her fans are reluctant to admit this. Madonna has always had a great team behind her who are largely responsible for her continued success. She's no different to Rihanna in a lot of ways. Do you think Madonna would have survived the 1990s had she not worked with R&B producers like Dallas Austin, Babyface and Dave "Jam" Hall in 1994 when the R&B market was huge? How about her working with William Orbit on Ray of Light when electronic/dance/trip hop music was popular in the 1990s thanks to bands and singers like Leftfield, Sneaker Pimps, Massive Attack, Portishead, Tricky, etc. Then there's her working with Timbaland,The Neptunes and Danja in 2008 when the R&B dance/pop sound was popular. People call Madonna a trendsetter but she's mostly a follower, looking at what is popular at the time and using that as a guide for her own work. She's a sponge, soaking up ideas of those around here. As Cyndi Lauper once said: "She is brilliant at selling, and she didn't fight her record company the way I did. I think the secret behind her success is that she would find someone who was really successful at what she wanted to do - a writer or a producer - and do it with them."
... or the thread for the ignorant to show how ignorant they are.
why because they don't follow the norm? Its not against the law to dislike something that was popular, I think calling people ignorant because its offended you that not everyone likes the beatles is pretty petty.
Lyrics should never mention any technology that didn't exist in the 1950s.
Cars, television, radio, records, rockets, spaceships etc. are all fine; iPhones, internet, MP3s, Facebook etc. all bad. Computers are ok but they should bring to mind big rooms full of flashing lights, spinning tapes and people in white coats rather than a laptop.
The only loophole in this law is that you are allowed to mention post-1959 technology as long as you do so in a sneering, cynical way.
I agree. The songs mentioning iPhones, Facebook etc. are going to sound hilariously dated in 10-20 years time. Gary Numan's 'Cars' is still going to be a classic by that time. Wiley's 'Can You Hear Me' will not.
And the title track wasn't even written by her. Even Into The Groove which she supposedly wrote has some doubt cast whether she or her boyfriend at the time Steve Bray actually was responsible for the song.
I also dislike Beyoncé. She over sings everything to death anf struts around like she's god's gift. Very annoying!
I'm very interested in hearing FoFs reply to your post as well.
Fleetwood Mac's best album is Tango in the Night. Likewise, Wish You Were Here is better than Dark Side of the Moon.
I kind of agree about Genesis, teh Collins stuff just post Gabriel is amongst my favorite. op Genesis was good for waht it was, but Wind and Wuthering is such a good album.
Agreed re Fleetwood Mac
Not sure with Floyd, Dark Side is a bloody good album and stads up far better than Gabriels Genesis "progresssive masterpiece" The Lamb Lies Down
you dont get it obviously...
theres a difference between giving an 'unpopular' opinion based on reason and thought, and just burting out a load of tripe which is factually incorrect.
oh, and when have i EVER said that im offended because not everybody likes the beatles? everyone is free to like or dislike whoever the want. theres a difference between liking the beatles and having a respect for their contribution to music.
I think you dont get it at all, unpopular means going against the norm, not everyone thinks the beatles were great or there songs as "groundbreaking music". Having respect for what? There early song were nothing but pop rubbish and beatlemania is nothing more than the original one direction mania were seeing now. Yes i'm aware the beatles wrote and played music before that argument comes back for the 100000000th time.
You seem to hijack threads that say something bad about the beatles, i await the producer and mega star unique to join the thread very soon.
Calling people ignorant or saying its a load of tripe is petty.
If everyone had the same views then the world would be a sad place.
Madonna had always picked great team of people who helped her to realize her visions and concepts, just like many other great artists. She knew that she needs to work with the best producents and staff, just like every person wants to work with the best people in their field. It's completely understandable and I don't know what's your problem with it.
I saw some of your posts and I don't think it's possible to have rational dialogue with you because of your lack of objectivity when it comes to Madonna, so I will just leave it at that.
I prefer Wish You Were Here to Dark side Of Moon too.