It should be pointed out to those that haven't read the books, nearly 20 years and 5000+ pages since that first prologue and we've barely seen a WW never mind witnessed them in battle!!
I have more faith in the eventual return of Summer liberating Westeros than Dany and her dragons.
Yeah but she's' got important stuff to do - like closing the fighting pits. Then refusing to reopen the fitting pits. Then agreeing to reopen the fighting pits. Then reopening the fitting pits. Then going to the fitting pits.
While he does get consulted on various matters he's said himself that showrunners D B Weiss and David Benioff have the Final say and there have been occasions where they've gone a different way to what he has suggested.
And to be honest after next season I can see the show and books becoming more and more different especially if the talk of wrapping the show up after seven seasons proves accurate.
Well the Empire article that came out before season 2 aired had Weiss and Benioff saying they go to Martin to discuss any changes they might make and he has to give his blessing before they film a script because they are fans of the material themselves and don't want to annoy someone who they admire and enjoy working with. That's partly why Martin wrote the episode for the Battle of Blackwater personally, because they didn't feel right changing things that much without Martin's clear blessing (the giant chain for example). Obviously some more tangential material has already been excised and some characters have been merged in the name of adaptation. Also I thought the discussions were ongoing as to whether it will be a 7 or 8 series show based on cast fees, budgetary concerns and actor availability because they are having to split a book into two different seasons already. I think the 7 series thing is more due to a regulation that states actors can only be kept on a show for so long at a certain payscale without neccessary renegotiation so as not to be held hostage to a contract, it's what's happened with How I Met Your Mother and Friends before.
No it isn't, it could easily have been an allegorical vision - remember in the book it was Daenerys who saw it, in the House of the Undying, and then it was just mentioned by two characters in passing that the rumour was that they'd sewn Grey Wind's head onto Robb Starks body, just a rumour and a vision, no POV character described it at all. There was no need to show it, everyone got the point in the massacre happening at a wedding and the betrayal of guest rights.
I think that very much 'less is more' has more impact, the books are well balanced, and gripping, with a fantastic story. This TV season has been more about sensationalistic blood, guts and horror, with shock value than about the story, I feel. They left a lot out so they could have the shocking scenes which are only implied in the book, (in the case of Ros, not in the book at all), and I think the story has been left much the poorer for it.
I have a feeling the books are just as nasty and gory as some of the scenes in the TV show imply......but....There are so many different viewers watching, looking for different scenes. And in the books, I always have the choice to gloss over or skip some of the more violent or graphic scenes.
Im not enjoying the way violence is almost relished in the TV series... I don't particularly like watching violence or violent scenes..
Joffrey shooting Ros.., Varys keeping his magician 'friend' in a box for revenge....and all the emphasis on Theon/Reek being tortured.... to me seem unnecessary.
It was bad enough showing the Red Wedding, Chopping hands off etc...but those were integral to the story....
And what is the point of Theon and his storyline? Is his torture supposed to be justified because he betrayed his Stark family and supposedly murdered Bran and Dickon...?
I plan to start reading from where the TV series left off, anyone know where to start would it be the second book of Storm Of Swords or should i start reading the first part?
I plan to start reading from where the TV series left off, anyone know where to start would it be the second book of Storm Of Swords or should i start reading the first part?
That would be the closest point to where the TV show is at but I'd recommend reading from Book 1 (A Game of Thrones) as there is a lot of stuff in the books that has been left out of the TV show.
I have a feeling the books are just as nasty and gory as some of the scenes in the TV show imply......but....There are so many different viewers watching, looking for different scenes. And in the books, I always have the choice to gloss over or skip some of the more violent or graphic scenes.
Im not enjoying the way violence is almost relished in the TV series... I don't particularly like watching violence or violent scenes..
Joffrey shooting Ros.., Varys keeping his magician 'friend' in a box for revenge....and all the emphasis on Theon/Reek being tortured.... to me seem unnecessary.
It was bad enough showing the Red Wedding, Chopping hands off etc...but those were integral to the story....
And what is the point of Theon and his storyline? Is his torture supposed to be justified because he betrayed his Stark family and supposedly murdered Bran and Dickon...?
Not to be too blunt, but it's HBO, one of the few channels that produce high end and uncensored programs for the US market along with FX, Starz and Showtime. If you are not fond of graphic violence, you're watching the wrong program and the wrong network.
Theon's story is basically to show the cost of his betrayal and misplaced trust towards his father after he was the Stark's ward. The noble people get treated awfully in the stories and the people that abandon nobility get it even worse (see Jamie, Theon).
Not to be too blunt, but it's HBO, one of the few channels that produce high end and uncensored programs for the US market along with FX, Starz and Showtime. If you are not fond of graphic violence, you're watching the wrong program and the wrong network.
Theon's story is basically to show the cost of his betrayal and misplaced trust towards his father after he was the Stark's ward. The noble people get treated awfully in the stories and the people that abandon nobility get it even worse (see Jamie, Theon).
There doesn't even need to be a moral behind the story. Sometimes horrifically bad things happen to people for no justifiable reason - especially in a time before real law and order. Just because the show contains knights and dragons it doesn't mean it's a fairy tale - I would much rather have hard to watch scenes than something that censors itself to placate viewers that don't like the real world.
That would be the closest point to where the TV show is at but I'd recommend reading from Book 1 (A Game of Thrones) as there is a lot of stuff in the books that has been left out of the TV show.
There doesn't even need to be a moral behind the story. Sometimes horrifically bad things happen to people for no justifiable reason - especially in a time before real law and order. Just because the show contains knights and dragons it doesn't mean it's a fairy tale - I would much rather have hard to watch scenes than something that censors itself to placate viewers that don't like the real world.
Well the whole "game of thrones" line still rings true. You either do what is best or you do what is right and generally doing what is "right" gets you killed eventually. That's also is more less what Tywin said, the family that acts prudently rather than impulsively will always win out, the heart should not rule the head or you generally end up without your head soon enough. Theon thought as Balon's male heir he'd act in faith towards his family ,even though his father favoured his daughter, until he realised too late his family were truly the Starks and Balon only used him as a tool to try gain power in The North. Now Balon won't even send a party after Theon, only Asha/Yara is pursuing him and we know that costs her in time as well. Meanwhile Dany let her brother be crowned with molten gold and sacrificed what remained of her husband's life to awake her dragons, now she's a Khaleesi who has sacked two cities and built an army.
I have a feeling the books are just as nasty and gory as some of the scenes in the TV show imply......but....There are so many different viewers watching, looking for different scenes. And in the books, I always have the choice to gloss over or skip some of the more violent or graphic scenes.
Im not enjoying the way violence is almost relished in the TV series... I don't particularly like watching violence or violent scenes..
Joffrey shooting Ros.., Varys keeping his magician 'friend' in a box for revenge....and all the emphasis on Theon/Reek being tortured.... to me seem unnecessary.
It was bad enough showing the Red Wedding, Chopping hands off etc...but those were integral to the story....
And what is the point of Theon and his storyline? Is his torture supposed to be justified because he betrayed his Stark family and supposedly murdered Bran and Dickon...?
Game of Thrones is depicting a violent, bloodthirsty world in which all the characters have shades of both good and bad within them.
Joffrey shooting Ros showed us, once again, that not only is Joffrey an evil little prick but that, despite how clever Varys is, Littlefinger was one step ahead and is, indeed, a very dangerous man,
The magician friend was again important to the character of Varys, as we learned his backstory and a bit more about him. He tells us a man cut off his man parts and cast him out to die. We know Varys is probably capable of getting revenge upon this man by now... and lo and behold, he's got him!
The Theon torture scenes were simply a necessity. It slowly introduced us to Ramsay Bolton (my favourite character), kept Alfie Allen in the cast, and the bleak horror of what they do to him is very important for later events. The Theon who appears in the later books is utterly destroyed, absolutely and completely terrified of Ramsay, and has even forgotten his own name. He's been tortured continuously by the most sadistic man in the Seven Kingdoms! We needed to see this, and not be told!
No offence, but if violence bothers you, you are probably watching the wrong show. There is a reason for all of it that fits in with the story. It is not pointless.
With regard to the sex and violence on Game of Thrones there are several points, some of which have been mentioned already.
Firstly the books are gritty, violent and dark. The series is a distilled version of the books. Most of what is discarded for the series is historical and background stuff and not very violent so what remains probably has a higher portion of sex and violence.
This is HBO, they specialise in sex and violence but usually as part of great stories populated by great characters. The Sopranos, Deadwood or Boardwalk Empire are all great shows and all are spiced with sex and violence. You could remove these elements but then they would not be the same shows. Look at network TV when it tries to be a little grittier, The Chicago Code or Vegas just fall a little flat in comparison.
Also the series has just finished its third season and it has been violent from the start. Bran was thrown out of the tower window in the first episode. I don't really see why this discussion is still raging after three years.
Although I do think that if there were no complaints at all then the writers would not be doing their jobs. This is a brutal era in a brutal world, some of the depiction of this should be uncomfortably hard viewing. If nobody complained then I think they would not have gone far enough. If the fans of the Saw movies were complaining that it was too violent then I would agree that they'd gone too far but for now I think they've got the balance about right. I hope we continue to get some complaints so we know they're not easing back too far.
That's not to say it's perfect. I thought season twos Dany story wasn't handled great and perhaps this season's Theon story could have been done slightly differently.
Game of Thrones is depicting a violent, bloodthirsty world in which all the characters have shades of both good and bad within them.
Joffrey shooting Ros showed us, once again, that not only is Joffrey an evil little prick but that, despite how clever Varys is, Littlefinger was one step ahead and is, indeed, a very dangerous man,
The magician friend was again important to the character of Varys, as we learned his backstory and a bit more about him. He tells us a man cut off his man parts and cast him out to die. We know Varys is probably capable of getting revenge upon this man by now... and lo and behold, he's got him!
The Theon torture scenes were simply a necessity. It slowly introduced us to Ramsay Bolton (my favourite character), kept Alfie Allen in the cast, and the bleak horror of what they do to him is very important for later events. The Theon who appears in the later books is utterly destroyed, absolutely and completely terrified of Ramsay, and has even forgotten his own name. He's been tortured continuously by the most sadistic man in the Seven Kingdoms! We needed to see this, and not be told!
No offence, but if violence bothers you, you are probably watching the wrong show. There is a reason for all of it that fits in with the story. It is not pointless.
I still can't get over Ramsey being played by the dude from Misfits (one of my fave shows in the last few years). Yet when he's on screen I buy it.
I also like the juxtaposition between how Joffrey is played as a sexual sadist, and Ramsey is played as a plain sadist, who is loving every second of what he does.
With regard to the sex and violence on Game of Thrones there are several points, some of which have been mentioned already.
Firstly the books are gritty, violent and dark. The series is a distilled version of the books. Most of what is discarded for the series is historical and background stuff and not very violent so what remains probably has a higher portion of sex and violence.
This is HBO, they specialise in sex and violence but usually as part of great stories populated by great characters. The Sopranos, Deadwood or Boardwalk Empire are all great shows and all are spiced with sex and violence. You could remove these elements but then they would not be the same shows. Look at network TV when it tries to be a little grittier, The Chicago Code or Vegas just fall a little flat in comparison.
Also the series has just finished its third season and it has been violent from the start. Bran was thrown out of the tower window in the first episode. I don't really see why this discussion is still raging after three years.
Although I do think that if there were no complaints at all then the writers would not be doing their jobs. This is a brutal era in a brutal world, some of the depiction of this should be uncomfortably hard viewing. If nobody complained then I think they would not have gone far enough. If the fans of the Saw movies were complaining that it was too violent then I would agree that they'd gone too far but for now I think they've got the balance about right. I hope we continue to get some complaints so we know they're not easing back too far.
That's not to say it's perfect. I thought season twos Dany story wasn't handled great and perhaps this season's Theon story could have been done slightly differently.
I agree with pretty much everything you're written there.
My concern is that, knowing the entertainment industry, there will be pressure to lower the sex and violence in order to not loose the non-traditional HBO viewer. I expect that there are a lot of people who have been drawn into show thinking it was a 'knights and dragons' affair who would never watch something like the Sopranos or Deadwood. The temptation to try and pander to them must be extremely tempting for a network like HBO which will gain significant revenue from people that sign up just to watch the show.
There's obviously no evidence of this so far thankfully but the more complaints they receive the more likely I think it is that it could happen.
Well i've seen Rome, but nothing else by HBO, and I've read all the books. I also happen to be a history geek specialising in mediaeval and Tudor history, so not exactly green behind the ears with expectations of violence and grisly deaths.
I expected gore, but I don't like gratuitous gore, and the nudity is, well, boring tbh, but I get that they have to have it to titillate men who don't seem to be able to maintain interest in a story without it. I think there has been excessive nastiness in this season, but that's my opinion and I'm as entitled to have it as those who like watching scenes of torture, although the person above whose favourite character is Ramsay Snow, is a bit worrying as are those who appear to be enjoying it.
Personally I prefer a strong story, which the books have. For me a gorefest detracts from the story, and 10 mins of a grisly scene which isn't even explicitly in the book is 10 mins that could be spent somewhere else, perhaps in dialogue, furthering the narrative.
I agree with pretty much everything you're written there.
My concern is that, knowing the entertainment industry, there will be pressure to lower the sex and violence in order to not loose the non-traditional HBO viewer. I expect that there are a lot of people who have been drawn into show thinking it was a 'knights and dragons' affair who would never watch something like the Sopranos or Deadwood. The temptation to try and pander to them must be extremely tempting for a network like HBO which will gain significant revenue from people that sign up just to watch the show.
There's obviously no evidence of this so far thankfully but the more complaints they receive the more likely I think it is that it could happen.
HBO only cares about it's client base. The non-HBO viewer is not a concern to HBO because they are a PPV channel. They only care about the views of their paying client base, everyone else can go hang. A non-HBO or Sky Atlantic viewer is not one of their customer and therefore their views matter as much as mine do as an English citizen to Chinese politician.
Well i've seen Rome, but nothing else by HBO, and I've read all the books. I also happen to be a history geek specialising in mediaeval and Tudor history, so not exactly green behind the ears with expectations of violence and grisly deaths.
I expected gore, but I don't like gratuitous gore, and the nudity is, well, boring tbh, but I get that they have to have it to titillate men who don't seem to be able to maintain interest in a story without it. I think there has been excessive nastiness in this season, but that's my opinion and I'm as entitled to have it as those who like watching scenes of torture, although the person above whose favourite character is Ramsay Snow, is a bit worrying as are those who appear to be enjoying it.
Personally I prefer a strong story, which the books have. For me a gorefest detracts from the story, and 10 mins of a grisly scene which isn't even explicitly in the book is 10 mins that could be spent somewhere else, perhaps in dialogue, furthering the narrative.
If you've read the books, you're aware the graphic descriptions of sex in that surpass anything shown on screen so far since we haven't actually seen tumescent engorged phalli firmly thrusting into glistening labia. So honestly if you've read the books and find that language acceptable but some jiggling bums and no actual clear depictions of genitalia in coitus, then I think you're presenting a hilariously invalid double standard.
If you've read the books, you're aware the graphic descriptions of sex in that surpass anything shown on screen so far since we haven't actually seen tumescent engorged phalli firmly thrusting into glistening labia. So honestly if you've read the books and find that language acceptable but some jiggling bums and no actual clear depictions of genitalia in coitus, then I think you're presenting a hilariously invalid double standard.
Of course you do, you've got your opinion and I've got mine, however, I do think that a graphic description in a book and a graphic depiction on screen where there is limited time for putting the actual story across, are two very different things. The former being details that the writer who has an infinite space he can fill if he so wishes, desires to include, but it has to be said, isn't really necessary, and the latter being a waste of screen time, especially where they've mucked around with the story to allow for it.
As I have said before, the nudity and sex doesn't bother me, it's boring, a waste of screen time and doesn't add anything, for me, but the torture scenes (hinted at obliquely in the book) I have found to be too many and actively unpleasant. My opinion, and I realise it's a minority one, which has probably cost them at least one sale of this season's DVDs (I bought the other two seasons, having enjoyed them immensely).
HBO only cares about it's client base. The non-HBO viewer is not a concern to HBO because they are a PPV channel. They only care about the views of their paying client base, everyone else can go hang. A non-HBO or Sky Atlantic viewer is not one of their customer and therefore their views matter as much as mine do as an English citizen to Chinese politician.
As long as they have no ambition to sell their series beyond their cable channel in the States, and an even tinier premium satellite channel in the UK.
That attitude isn't exactly a way to get rich. Why do you think the directors don't care about the piracy rates? If it weren't for the people pirating the show, no-one outside those distribution channels would have ever heard of it - and if no one has heard of it, then they're not going to be attracted into a subscription (and sales of items like t shirts and dvds are going to be equally tiny).
As long as they have no ambition to sell their series beyond their cable channel in the States, and an even tinier premium satellite channel in the UK.
That attitude isn't exactly a way to get rich. Why do you think the directors don't care about the piracy rates? If it weren't for the people pirating the show, no-one outside those distribution channels would have ever heard of it - and if no one has heard of it, then they're not going to be attracted into a subscription (and sales of items like t shirts and dvds are going to be equally tiny).
Marketing isn't your strong point is it.
I think you're being rude because you don't actually understand your own point is without merit. Now, let me elucidate my own points further and hopefully I can educate you in the process as to why you're sarcastic antagonism is utterly misplaced and pointless.
You do realise that HBO does have international channels, right? Oh wait, you clearly don't or you'd not make such a stupid statement. HBO Nordic, HBO Asia, HBO Canada, HBO Hrvatska all exist. Yes, they have an international client base... but the point I made remains, the only people that matter to HBO are their subscribers who pay for the premium channel they provide.
HBO has existed for nearly 40 years.They aren't lacking for money. In fact they are one of the few channels that can afford productions other channels can only dream of. They make plenty of money as it is, making more when you're already a multi billion dollar entity that's been around for decades is nice but unsurprisingly they probably don't need more gold pens in their offices, they've probably bought enough of those in the last 30 years.
Do you understand why most movies are released in North America first?
It's the world's biggest free market. American box office receipts matter more than international ones because they do not have to take a smaller slice due to having to pay international distributors a percentage of the box office takings. The American marketplace matters the most to them because it's the largest and most directly tied territory relevant to them as producers and indeed shareholders. If you don't pay, you don't get a say.
HBO doesn't care about piracy rates. They care about their subscriber base. The people that pay get their say. That's how businesses work, they care about their paying customers, not the thieves who enjoy their work but don't contribute to their actual bottom line. Piracy to them is free advertising which is why they add so much to the boxed sets: come for the bells, purchase the whistles.
Marketing not my strong point? Well clearly international media distribution costs and HBO's client model are beyond your comprehension entirely at this point. You seem to think they want to make more money when they are already incredibly rich thanks to True Blood, The Sopranos, Game Of Thrones, The Wire, their comedy specials...
You literally have no idea what you are talking about but seek to patronise me because I actually understand the nature of the American premium cable model of business. Which is fine for you to do but it's basically a display of your own ignorance while seeking to justify your view based solely on your opinion of how their business should be as opposed to how it has successfully operated for nearly 40 years. As such your opinion is only that and a misinformed one at that. My views don't lack that substance.
Go tell Richard Branson how to make more money whole you're barking up this tree for all the good it will do you, you don't understand what you're expressing an opinion on while claiming I am somehow the ignorant one? No, sorry. Go do your research and arm yourself with the relevant information first as I have, thanks. I hope reading and research are your strong points.
It's usually just before the next one starts, I think Season Two came out around the middle of March (ish) from memory so I'd expect the S3 DVD to be the same.
I expected gore, but I don't like gratuitous gore, and the nudity is, well, boring tbh, but I get that they have to have it to titillate men who don't seem to be able to maintain interest in a story without it. I think there has been excessive nastiness in this season, but that's my opinion and I'm as entitled to have it as those who like watching scenes of torture, although the person above whose favourite character is Ramsay Snow, is a bit worrying as are those who appear to be enjoying it.
Personally I prefer a strong story, which the books have. For me a gorefest detracts from the story, and 10 mins of a grisly scene which isn't even explicitly in the book is 10 mins that could be spent somewhere else, perhaps in dialogue, furthering the narrative.
My favourite character is Ramsay Snow because I find him very interesting. He's completely evil and twisted... what he does to Theon is unbelievable and just plane horrid. The lengths he will go to make Joffrey look, in comparison, like a lovely brave and honourable boy. He's unpredictable, very evil, and you have no idea what he will do next. I'm looking forward to when they start showing his attempts to take over Winterfell and the North, and future events that may put him against Stannis or Jon. Stannis says that Ramsay is "welcome to try" to destroy him... in other words, he's saying bring it on. I can't wait to see someone take him down! I want him to have a terrible and painful death, yet can't help really enjoying his character.
Your suggestion, that I like Ramsay because I enjoy watching the torture, is just plain odd. GOT isn't attracting people for its nudity and violence! It is well known to be a very complicated show you must pay attention to. The violence and nudity is a by product of the story!
So, you're telling me that the books have no gore or disgusting features at all? What about the hugely detailed Jaime chapters, where loosing his hand makes Jaime so delusional he looses control of his bowels and is, simply, a mess. There are things that happen in the books they simply cannot film, as there is only so much you can make an actor do. I'm not sure what people are expecting when they moan about the violence. It's a grizzly, horrible world and they are depicting it as thus. Each torture scene with Ramsay and Theon is mentioned in the book and is vastly important to future events. To see Theon change from the arrogant little prick he was to the terrified Gollum like Reek he becomes simply cannot be told in exposition. We had to see it!
just recenly got into this as when i first tried to watch it found the first few episodes really boring so i stopped. anyway after the first 4 episodes of series 1 it gets really good the rest of series 1 is epic stuff.
then series 2 and 3 my god what utter boring drivel it was painful. episode 9 of series 2 was awsome and episode 9 of series 3 was awsome but the other 18 episodes my god.
i thought the tudors on showtime that came out a few years ago was better than this.
just recenly got into this as when i first tried to watch it found the first few episodes really boring so i stopped. anyway after the first 4 episodes of series 1 it gets really good the rest of series 1 is epic stuff.
then series 2 and 3 my god what utter boring drivel it was painful. episode 9 of series 2 was awsome and episode 9 of series 3 was awsome but the other 18 episodes my god.
i thought the tudors on showtime that came out a few years ago was better than this.
You've watched a lot of episodes of a show you don't really like
Comments
Yeah but she's' got important stuff to do - like closing the fighting pits. Then refusing to reopen the fitting pits. Then agreeing to reopen the fighting pits. Then reopening the fitting pits. Then going to the fitting pits.
It's a heavy schedule!
I have a feeling the books are just as nasty and gory as some of the scenes in the TV show imply......but....There are so many different viewers watching, looking for different scenes. And in the books, I always have the choice to gloss over or skip some of the more violent or graphic scenes.
Im not enjoying the way violence is almost relished in the TV series... I don't particularly like watching violence or violent scenes..
Joffrey shooting Ros.., Varys keeping his magician 'friend' in a box for revenge....and all the emphasis on Theon/Reek being tortured.... to me seem unnecessary.
It was bad enough showing the Red Wedding, Chopping hands off etc...but those were integral to the story....
And what is the point of Theon and his storyline? Is his torture supposed to be justified because he betrayed his Stark family and supposedly murdered Bran and Dickon...?
That would be the closest point to where the TV show is at but I'd recommend reading from Book 1 (A Game of Thrones) as there is a lot of stuff in the books that has been left out of the TV show.
Not to be too blunt, but it's HBO, one of the few channels that produce high end and uncensored programs for the US market along with FX, Starz and Showtime. If you are not fond of graphic violence, you're watching the wrong program and the wrong network.
Theon's story is basically to show the cost of his betrayal and misplaced trust towards his father after he was the Stark's ward. The noble people get treated awfully in the stories and the people that abandon nobility get it even worse (see Jamie, Theon).
There doesn't even need to be a moral behind the story. Sometimes horrifically bad things happen to people for no justifiable reason - especially in a time before real law and order. Just because the show contains knights and dragons it doesn't mean it's a fairy tale - I would much rather have hard to watch scenes than something that censors itself to placate viewers that don't like the real world.
Thanks
Well the whole "game of thrones" line still rings true. You either do what is best or you do what is right and generally doing what is "right" gets you killed eventually. That's also is more less what Tywin said, the family that acts prudently rather than impulsively will always win out, the heart should not rule the head or you generally end up without your head soon enough. Theon thought as Balon's male heir he'd act in faith towards his family ,even though his father favoured his daughter, until he realised too late his family were truly the Starks and Balon only used him as a tool to try gain power in The North. Now Balon won't even send a party after Theon, only Asha/Yara is pursuing him and we know that costs her in time as well. Meanwhile Dany let her brother be crowned with molten gold and sacrificed what remained of her husband's life to awake her dragons, now she's a Khaleesi who has sacked two cities and built an army.
Game of Thrones is depicting a violent, bloodthirsty world in which all the characters have shades of both good and bad within them.
Joffrey shooting Ros showed us, once again, that not only is Joffrey an evil little prick but that, despite how clever Varys is, Littlefinger was one step ahead and is, indeed, a very dangerous man,
The magician friend was again important to the character of Varys, as we learned his backstory and a bit more about him. He tells us a man cut off his man parts and cast him out to die. We know Varys is probably capable of getting revenge upon this man by now... and lo and behold, he's got him!
The Theon torture scenes were simply a necessity. It slowly introduced us to Ramsay Bolton (my favourite character), kept Alfie Allen in the cast, and the bleak horror of what they do to him is very important for later events. The Theon who appears in the later books is utterly destroyed, absolutely and completely terrified of Ramsay, and has even forgotten his own name. He's been tortured continuously by the most sadistic man in the Seven Kingdoms! We needed to see this, and not be told!
No offence, but if violence bothers you, you are probably watching the wrong show. There is a reason for all of it that fits in with the story. It is not pointless.
Firstly the books are gritty, violent and dark. The series is a distilled version of the books. Most of what is discarded for the series is historical and background stuff and not very violent so what remains probably has a higher portion of sex and violence.
This is HBO, they specialise in sex and violence but usually as part of great stories populated by great characters. The Sopranos, Deadwood or Boardwalk Empire are all great shows and all are spiced with sex and violence. You could remove these elements but then they would not be the same shows. Look at network TV when it tries to be a little grittier, The Chicago Code or Vegas just fall a little flat in comparison.
Also the series has just finished its third season and it has been violent from the start. Bran was thrown out of the tower window in the first episode. I don't really see why this discussion is still raging after three years.
Although I do think that if there were no complaints at all then the writers would not be doing their jobs. This is a brutal era in a brutal world, some of the depiction of this should be uncomfortably hard viewing. If nobody complained then I think they would not have gone far enough. If the fans of the Saw movies were complaining that it was too violent then I would agree that they'd gone too far but for now I think they've got the balance about right. I hope we continue to get some complaints so we know they're not easing back too far.
That's not to say it's perfect. I thought season twos Dany story wasn't handled great and perhaps this season's Theon story could have been done slightly differently.
I still can't get over Ramsey being played by the dude from Misfits (one of my fave shows in the last few years). Yet when he's on screen I buy it.
I also like the juxtaposition between how Joffrey is played as a sexual sadist, and Ramsey is played as a plain sadist, who is loving every second of what he does.
I agree with pretty much everything you're written there.
My concern is that, knowing the entertainment industry, there will be pressure to lower the sex and violence in order to not loose the non-traditional HBO viewer. I expect that there are a lot of people who have been drawn into show thinking it was a 'knights and dragons' affair who would never watch something like the Sopranos or Deadwood. The temptation to try and pander to them must be extremely tempting for a network like HBO which will gain significant revenue from people that sign up just to watch the show.
There's obviously no evidence of this so far thankfully but the more complaints they receive the more likely I think it is that it could happen.
I expected gore, but I don't like gratuitous gore, and the nudity is, well, boring tbh, but I get that they have to have it to titillate men who don't seem to be able to maintain interest in a story without it. I think there has been excessive nastiness in this season, but that's my opinion and I'm as entitled to have it as those who like watching scenes of torture, although the person above whose favourite character is Ramsay Snow, is a bit worrying as are those who appear to be enjoying it.
Personally I prefer a strong story, which the books have. For me a gorefest detracts from the story, and 10 mins of a grisly scene which isn't even explicitly in the book is 10 mins that could be spent somewhere else, perhaps in dialogue, furthering the narrative.
Of course you do, you've got your opinion and I've got mine, however, I do think that a graphic description in a book and a graphic depiction on screen where there is limited time for putting the actual story across, are two very different things. The former being details that the writer who has an infinite space he can fill if he so wishes, desires to include, but it has to be said, isn't really necessary, and the latter being a waste of screen time, especially where they've mucked around with the story to allow for it.
As I have said before, the nudity and sex doesn't bother me, it's boring, a waste of screen time and doesn't add anything, for me, but the torture scenes (hinted at obliquely in the book) I have found to be too many and actively unpleasant. My opinion, and I realise it's a minority one, which has probably cost them at least one sale of this season's DVDs (I bought the other two seasons, having enjoyed them immensely).
As long as they have no ambition to sell their series beyond their cable channel in the States, and an even tinier premium satellite channel in the UK.
That attitude isn't exactly a way to get rich. Why do you think the directors don't care about the piracy rates? If it weren't for the people pirating the show, no-one outside those distribution channels would have ever heard of it - and if no one has heard of it, then they're not going to be attracted into a subscription (and sales of items like t shirts and dvds are going to be equally tiny).
Marketing isn't your strong point is it.
You do realise that HBO does have international channels, right? Oh wait, you clearly don't or you'd not make such a stupid statement. HBO Nordic, HBO Asia, HBO Canada, HBO Hrvatska all exist. Yes, they have an international client base... but the point I made remains, the only people that matter to HBO are their subscribers who pay for the premium channel they provide.
HBO has existed for nearly 40 years.They aren't lacking for money. In fact they are one of the few channels that can afford productions other channels can only dream of. They make plenty of money as it is, making more when you're already a multi billion dollar entity that's been around for decades is nice but unsurprisingly they probably don't need more gold pens in their offices, they've probably bought enough of those in the last 30 years.
Do you understand why most movies are released in North America first?
It's the world's biggest free market. American box office receipts matter more than international ones because they do not have to take a smaller slice due to having to pay international distributors a percentage of the box office takings. The American marketplace matters the most to them because it's the largest and most directly tied territory relevant to them as producers and indeed shareholders. If you don't pay, you don't get a say.
HBO doesn't care about piracy rates. They care about their subscriber base. The people that pay get their say. That's how businesses work, they care about their paying customers, not the thieves who enjoy their work but don't contribute to their actual bottom line. Piracy to them is free advertising which is why they add so much to the boxed sets: come for the bells, purchase the whistles.
Marketing not my strong point? Well clearly international media distribution costs and HBO's client model are beyond your comprehension entirely at this point. You seem to think they want to make more money when they are already incredibly rich thanks to True Blood, The Sopranos, Game Of Thrones, The Wire, their comedy specials...
You literally have no idea what you are talking about but seek to patronise me because I actually understand the nature of the American premium cable model of business. Which is fine for you to do but it's basically a display of your own ignorance while seeking to justify your view based solely on your opinion of how their business should be as opposed to how it has successfully operated for nearly 40 years. As such your opinion is only that and a misinformed one at that. My views don't lack that substance.
Go tell Richard Branson how to make more money whole you're barking up this tree for all the good it will do you, you don't understand what you're expressing an opinion on while claiming I am somehow the ignorant one? No, sorry. Go do your research and arm yourself with the relevant information first as I have, thanks. I hope reading and research are your strong points.
Troll feeding again.
Deleted.
It's usually just before the next one starts, I think Season Two came out around the middle of March (ish) from memory so I'd expect the S3 DVD to be the same.
My favourite character is Ramsay Snow because I find him very interesting. He's completely evil and twisted... what he does to Theon is unbelievable and just plane horrid. The lengths he will go to make Joffrey look, in comparison, like a lovely brave and honourable boy. He's unpredictable, very evil, and you have no idea what he will do next. I'm looking forward to when they start showing his attempts to take over Winterfell and the North, and future events that may put him against Stannis or Jon. Stannis says that Ramsay is "welcome to try" to destroy him... in other words, he's saying bring it on. I can't wait to see someone take him down! I want him to have a terrible and painful death, yet can't help really enjoying his character.
Your suggestion, that I like Ramsay because I enjoy watching the torture, is just plain odd. GOT isn't attracting people for its nudity and violence! It is well known to be a very complicated show you must pay attention to. The violence and nudity is a by product of the story!
So, you're telling me that the books have no gore or disgusting features at all? What about the hugely detailed Jaime chapters, where loosing his hand makes Jaime so delusional he looses control of his bowels and is, simply, a mess. There are things that happen in the books they simply cannot film, as there is only so much you can make an actor do. I'm not sure what people are expecting when they moan about the violence. It's a grizzly, horrible world and they are depicting it as thus. Each torture scene with Ramsay and Theon is mentioned in the book and is vastly important to future events. To see Theon change from the arrogant little prick he was to the terrified Gollum like Reek he becomes simply cannot be told in exposition. We had to see it!
then series 2 and 3 my god what utter boring drivel it was painful. episode 9 of series 2 was awsome and episode 9 of series 3 was awsome but the other 18 episodes my god.
i thought the tudors on showtime that came out a few years ago was better than this.
You've watched a lot of episodes of a show you don't really like