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Will Russia "invade" Ukraine

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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As you know, the Pro-Russian VY Government has been forced out of power due to the various broken promises about closer ties with the EU and corruption etc. They are currently creating a unity government, however there is a good chance it would be lead by the Pro-European faction which gets most of its support from Western Ukraine.

For Southern Ukraine (Russian Ukrainian), Eastern Ukraine (Mostly Russian Ukrainian) and the Crimea (88% are Russian Ukrainian), this is not really acceptable for them considering that they look more to Russia than the rest of Europe

It is to hard to beleve that Putin and his assoicates in Moscow are not happy about this, Putin himself has opposed the breakup of the USSR and he has spent him time in power breaking the other "Ex-Soviet" states into Russia's domian in various measures, which apart from the Baltic States he has suceeded, only the egos of the local rules has prevented any formal annexation.

Secondly along with the fact the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy is based in the Crimea, a lot of Russians support the idea of Russia annexing the Ukraine as a step towards reuniting the lost lands, if Putin did this, he woul gain a lot of support

So let me ask you all this, will Russia invade Ukraine or rather Eastern and Southern Ukraine at least...

Note: When I mean "Russian Ukrainian" I mean groups which either speak languages from the Russian Federation or are ethinic groups from the Russian Federation,
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    Also I want to ask this, Central Ukraine is mostly Pro-Europe, but not as strongly as Western Ukraine, so considering how historically important Kiev is to Russian History, would Russia also look at annexing that region as well?

    Lastly, the breakway Molovian region of Transnistria (which is strongly Russian) borders Southern Ukraine, if the latter region becomes part of the Russian Federation, will Transnistria join it as well...
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    flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    no. it will not.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    flagpole wrote: »
    no. it will not.

    Well they did exactly the same thing with Georgia for a start and besides, what can NATO do? Espcially if Russia keeps out of Western Ukraine?

    Putin passed the anti-gay laws simply to boost his popularity, imagine how much support he will gain if he annexed the Russian Parts of Ukraine, which he does support...
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    glasshalffullglasshalffull Posts: 22,291
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    No they won't.
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    AdsAds Posts: 37,059
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    I am sure Russia will keep well out of the Ukraine situation, as they kept telling the rest of the world to stop interfering in a nation's own affairs in relation to Syria.
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    allafixallafix Posts: 20,690
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    I doubt they would invade. Political pressure at most. They'll want the billions they recently gave Ukraine back though.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    Ads wrote: »
    I am sure Russia will keep well out of the Ukraine situation, as they kept telling the rest of the world to stop interfering in a nation's own affairs in relation to Syria.

    Russia is very much invovled in Syria and the Georgian experence showed that they will use force to retain their control over the "near aboard" as they call the other Ex-Soviet states...
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    allafix wrote: »
    I doubt they would invade. Political pressure at most. They'll want the billions they recently gave Ukraine back though.

    Have they given any money?

    Also if the IMF bailout proves to be too hard to swallow, will the Pro-Russians expolit this?
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    wallsterwallster Posts: 17,609
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    If they want WW3, they will invade Ukraine
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    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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    Doubt it though they do have a leased naval base in Sebastopol but Ukraine is a divided country on the main issue which is closer ties with Russia or the EU.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    wallster wrote: »
    If they want WW3, they will invade Ukraine

    But if Russia acts first, NATO is not going to fight back.

    Remember that Russia invaded a NATO associate state, annexed parts of their territory and got away with it...
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    johnny_boi_UKjohnny_boi_UK Posts: 3,761
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    ITN Source wrote: »
    Well they did exactly the same thing with Georgia for a start and besides, what can NATO do? Espcially if Russia keeps out of Western Ukraine?

    Putin passed the anti-gay laws simply to boost his popularity, imagine how much support he will gain if he annexed the Russian Parts of Ukraine, which he does support...

    Ukraine is not Georgia.

    Ukraine has a sizable military, it would not be easy.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    jmclaugh wrote: »
    Doubt it though they do have a leased naval base in Sebastopol but Ukraine is a divided country on the main issue which is closer ties with Russia or the EU.

    That is why Russia is likely to get involved...
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    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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    ITN Source wrote: »
    That is why Russia is likely to get involved...

    The lease runs to 2042 so unless a new government attempts to change that why would they. The biggest issue is if armed conflict between the Mother Russia Ukrainians and the rest breaks out.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    Ukraine is not Georgia.

    Ukraine has a sizable military, it would not be easy.

    Does anyone know though how much of the Ukranian Milltary is Russian Ukrainian?

    Also if Putin "did" invade Ukraine, it will most likely only cover Western and Southern Ukraine, where there is less hostility to Russian, I simply don't see Moscow willing to annex Western Ukraine...
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    BrokenArrowBrokenArrow Posts: 21,665
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    Ukraine is not Georgia.

    Ukraine has a sizable military, it would not be easy.

    Ukraines military would roll over in no time.

    I think military intervention is a real possibility and will probably come in the form of a hundred thousand "military advisor's" to eastern Ukraine.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    jmclaugh wrote: »
    The lease runs to 2042 so unless a new government attempts to change that why would they. The biggest issue is if armed conflict between the Mother Russia Ukrainians and the rest breaks out.

    Well if Ukraine ends up becoming a member of both the EU and NATO, I highly doubt they would be allowed to have a major Non-NATO milltary base in the country.

    Secondly Putin has made it clear he was against the breakup of the USSR and has wanted to annex Russian Ukraine and has opposed any movement towards the EU and NATO for any Ex-Soviet state.
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    MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    allafix wrote: »
    I doubt they would invade. Political pressure at most. They'll want the billions they recently gave Ukraine back though.

    I think this is the key - Ukraine are verging on the edge of financial collapse and need bailing out very soon, who is going to do that apart from Moscow?.

    Had the EU agreed a more equitable trade deal then all this may have been averted, as it is I can only see Moscow as the answer - as much as it would pain half the country.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    Ukraines military would roll over in no time.

    I think military intervention is a real possibility and will probably come in the form of a hundred thousand "military advisor's" to eastern Ukraine.

    Well the Ukrianian Milltary has stated they will stay out of the poltical dicussions, howerver they have strong ties with Russia

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/.premium-1.575987

    So if there was a invasion, they would mostly oppose it especially if they only happened in Eastern and Southern Ukraine...
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    Majlis wrote: »
    I think this is the key - Ukraine are verging on the edge of financial collapse and need bailing out very soon, who is going to do that apart from Moscow?.

    Had the EU agreed a more equitable trade deal then all this may have been averted, as it is I can only see Moscow as the answer - as much as it would pain half the country.

    Agreed, this is Moscows other tool, certainly they will not make as many demands as the IMF for a start...
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    mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,308
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    flagpole wrote: »
    no. it will not.

    But it might offer "military assistance" of course. ;)
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    LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,662
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    Russia already has a huge military base in Ukraine with 25,000 troops. The Russian Black Sea fleet is based in Sevastopol on the Crimean coast and is a possible hiding place for the former President.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    The Armed Forces of Ukraine numbers 159,000 with 1 million in reserve and costs $1.9 billion a year.

    In comparison the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation numbers 766,000 with 2 million in reserve and costs $90 billion.

    Add the milltaries of Belarus (which borders Ukraine and is a client state of Russia) and Kazakstan (a close ally of Russia, although they are less keen) and you have a milltary numbering 936,000 with 2.65 million in reserve and costing $94 billion.

    When to take account of the Ukrainian Milltaries close ties with Russia, invading Eastern and Southern Ukraine (maybe Central Ukraine) is posibble...
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    allafixallafix Posts: 20,690
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    ITN Source wrote: »
    Have they given any money?

    Also if the IMF bailout proves to be too hard to swallow, will the Pro-Russians expolit this?
    Yes, $3bn so far of the $15bn originally pledged.

    I don't see Russia invading. It doesn't need too. More likely Ukraine will split into East and West along ethnic lines.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,967
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    allafix wrote: »
    Yes, $3bn so far of the $15bn originally pledged.

    I don't see Russia invading. It doesn't need too. More likely Ukraine will split into East and West along ethnic lines.

    Well what I meant was that "Russian Millitary Involvement" will aid the breakup between Ukraine.

    So do you agree that Eastern and Southern Ukraine + Crimea become at least a associate state of Russia and Western Ukraine becomes a independent EU member? But where does this leave Kiev and Central Ukraine?
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