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A Serbian Film

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    KirkfnwKirkfnw Posts: 1,613
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    JCR wrote: »
    Look, if you stuck A Serbian Film in front of a jury of 12 regular people in court and asked them to decide if it's in breach of the Obscene Publications Act I strongly suspect the answer would be yes it is. From that point of view, the bbfc's actions were perfectly sensible.

    If they'd passed it uncut there would have been a backlash that would have effected other films. Heck, the bloody Tories were wanting Medal of Honor banned, I don't think A Serbian Film would have gone down at all well! Indeed I believe Bournemouth council licencing board (local councils have the power to over rule the bbfc for cinemas in their area) have said the bbfc made a mistake not rejecting ASF outright and that they wouldn't let any form of it play in Bournemouth cinemas.

    As several people have said, it doesn't matter. I'd guess the bbfc know full well anyone with broadband can watch the film, so what does it matter if they cut it officially?

    Because the film deserves to be shown in its entirety. Imagine how you'd feel if you made a two hour film and they cut it to ribbons, losing the full effect? That's just ridiculous.

    Why should this movie be censored? I'm old enough to know what I can and can't watch and if I feel offended by something - I'm responsible enough to choose whether to go on with the film or stop.

    The problem is in the UK no one wants to take responsibility any more. Let's just blame the directors, who cares what our kids watch, good old blame culture.

    Events that happen in this film are talked about in newspapers every single day, why are they not censored? Why should a film portraying a fictional event which - if you'd actually WATCHED the film - is subtle, be cut? Double standards at their worst.

    And also you may know, Internet censorship is only around the corner, by supporting censorship of this you are effectively agreeing with censoring our very open and honest Internet as well.
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    wildmovieguywildmovieguy Posts: 8,342
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    The real reason films have to be classified is to give people an idea of what it may contain. The reason some are cut however is to do with people enjoying anything disturbing they may be seeing. Yes you may here about these things in the newspapers regularly, murdering, raping, violent acts done to people but the chances of the general public seeing anything like this is nil. Their not gonna show you real CCTV footage of someone getting raped or a real murder taking place. A fake film showing it is the closest thing to the real thing and whether people want to admit it or not there are people out there who do enjoy watching those kinds of things. Some will get off on it. They may even enjoy it so much that the ideas they already had in their head about doing something will just get spurred on by watching a movie and lead to them doing it in real life. It does happen. It's not done to protect you from seeing something you shouldn't, it's done to try and stop the people who would already seek out these kinds of films for that kind of content specifically and stop them from watching it and of course the beauty of VHS and DVD is you can watch and rewind, watch and rewind and watch as many times as you want.
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    JCRJCR Posts: 24,074
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    Kirkfnw wrote: »
    Because the film deserves to be shown in its entirety. Imagine how you'd feel if you made a two hour film and they cut it to ribbons, losing the full effect? That's just ridiculous.

    Why should this movie be censored? I'm old enough to know what I can and can't watch and if I feel offended by something - I'm responsible enough to choose whether to go on with the film or stop.

    The problem is in the UK no one wants to take responsibility any more. Let's just blame the directors, who cares what our kids watch, good old blame culture.

    Events that happen in this film are talked about in newspapers every single day, why are they not censored? Why should a film portraying a fictional event which - if you'd actually WATCHED the film - is subtle, be cut? Double standards at their worst.

    And also you may know, Internet censorship is only around the corner, by supporting censorship of this you are effectively agreeing with censoring our very open and honest Internet as well.

    I don't agree with it.

    Why do you keep saying I haven't watched it, I have, the Encoded by DigitalDarkness version if you must know.

    Oh and just because I never tire of saying this: The film is a God awful piece of shit.

    That is all.
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    SiebenburgenSiebenburgen Posts: 3,002
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    I will not watch the UK cut release of this movie. Why would I waste money on cut to crap versions of movies. This isn't Mary Whitehouse all over again I hope. People can judge for themselves what they want to watch and what they think is horrid!. If it becomes available on Region 1 uncut or Region 2 uncut THEN AND ONLY THEN will I buy it and watch it. Not before. Supporting a censored movie is telling them it's ok to censor things!. I have watched Barney the dinosaur videos before and Tots TV. So I can take anything A Serbian Film can throw at me... BRING IT!!!.
    The real reason films have to be classified is to give people an idea of what it may contain. The reason some are cut however is to do with people enjoying anything disturbing they may be seeing. Yes you may here about these things in the newspapers regularly, murdering, raping, violent acts done to people but the chances of the general public seeing anything like this is nil. Their not gonna show you real CCTV footage of someone getting raped or a real murder taking place. A fake film showing it is the closest thing to the real thing and whether people want to admit it or not there are people out there who do enjoy watching those kinds of things. Some will get off on it. They may even enjoy it so much that the ideas they already had in their head about doing something will just get spurred on by watching a movie and lead to them doing it in real life. It does happen. It's not done to protect you from seeing something you shouldn't, it's done to try and stop the people who would already seek out these kinds of films for that kind of content specifically and stop them from watching it and of course the beauty of VHS and DVD is you can watch and rewind, watch and rewind and watch as many times as you want.

    So we the majority are being punished with censorship because of the minority. Where's the fairness in that?. Nazi bastards that's all censorship dictator scum are!. Telling us what WE can and can't watch, Don't blame movies or music or video games for society's ills. That's just laziness!.
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    JCRJCR Posts: 24,074
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    Godwin's law invoked in a thread about A Serbian Film; what are the odds.

    I recommend watching this video before watching ASF Siebenburgen: http://thecinemasnob.com/2010/10/18/reviews-a-serbian-film-jackass-3d.aspx
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    SiebenburgenSiebenburgen Posts: 3,002
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    JCR wrote: »
    Godwin's law invoked in a thread about A Serbian Film; what are the odds.

    I recommend watching this video before watching ASF Siebenburgen: http://thecinemasnob.com/2010/10/18/reviews-a-serbian-film-jackass-3d.aspx

    What can I say about this so-called "Godwin's Law" it wouldn't happen if it wasn't true. And when it comes to censorship you just do not get any more true than what I stated. Nazi's and dictatorships etc are the perfect way to explain those who think they can tell us what we can and can't see read or watch or play. This so-called law is nothing but an observation from Godwin, it is not LAW!, And in this fact it means it doesn't hold any weight when used in a debate against an opposing view,

    Look at the lyrics to the Anthrax song "Startin Up A Posse" to see how censorship should be treated.

    I watched that 20+ minute video and it has done nothing to change my thoughts. A movie is a movie. It's not real no matter what you see on screen. It is just a movie. And anyone who thinks otherwise when it comes to watching a movie is just too sensitive. And if you are sensitive what the **** are you doing watching something violent to begin with.

    Not referring to you pal. No. Just those other people out there.

    Some might say you need to be desensitized to violence to not be effected by this movie. Truth be told, I'd say I qualify a little for that label. I might be shocked here and there when watching it but it wont make me turn it off or find it a bad purchase (if it is uncut it will be purchased) and that in the end means you are a tad desensitized to violence.

    At the end of the day it will be treated for what it is and that's a movie with extreme content. Nothing more.

    BBFC - put it out uncut or **** off - it really is that simple!.
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    JCRJCR Posts: 24,074
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    What can I say about this so-called "Godwin's Law" it wouldn't happen if it wasn't true. And when it comes to censorship you just do not get any more true than what I stated. Nazi's and dictatorships etc are the perfect way to explain those who think they can tell us what we can and can't see read or watch or play. This so-called law is nothing but an observation from Godwin, it is not LAW!, And in this fact it means it doesn't hold any weight when used in a debate against an opposing view,

    Look at the lyrics to the Anthrax song "Startin Up A Posse" to see how censorship should be treated.

    I watched that 20+ minute video and it has done nothing to change my thoughts. A movie is a movie. It's not real no matter what you see on screen. It is just a movie. And anyone who thinks otherwise when it comes to watching a movie is just too sensitive. And if you are sensitive what the **** are you doing watching something violent to begin with.

    Not referring to you pal. No. Just those other people out there.

    Some might say you need to be desensitized to violence to not be effected by this movie. Truth be told, I'd say I qualify a little for that label. I might be shocked here and there when watching it but it wont make me turn it off or find it a bad purchase (if it is uncut it will be purchased) and that in the end means you are a tad desensitized to violence.

    At the end of the day it will be treated for what it is and that's a movie with extreme content. Nothing more.

    BBFC - put it out uncut or **** off - it really is that simple!.

    Well thanks for watching the video.

    God knows what English speaking country is going to put out a uncut dvd of it though.
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    SiebenburgenSiebenburgen Posts: 3,002
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    JCR wrote: »
    Well thanks for watching the video.

    God knows what English speaking country is going to put out a uncut dvd of it though.

    That there is the thing pal. I might never see it due to it being cut. I mean what's the point. I saw somewhere that four minutes were cut from the movie. WTF? does anyone have any idea of how much content that is. Four minutes. Jeez oh. It is butchered at a four minute cut!. Four minutes is an eternity in a movie where cuts are involved.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,725
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    That there is the thing pal. I might never see it due to it being cut. I mean what's the point. I saw somewhere that four minutes were cut from the movie. WTF? does anyone have any idea of how much content that is. Four minutes. Jeez oh. It is butchered at a four minute cut!. Four minutes is an eternity in a movie where cuts are involved.

    Bit of an over exaggeration isn't it? do you really feel you're missing out on an important part when a baby is born and immediately raped? that scene alone was probably a couple of minutes and if had been deleted wouldn't have made much difference to the film.
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    SiebenburgenSiebenburgen Posts: 3,002
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    Bit of an over exaggeration isn't it? do you really feel you're missing out on an important part when a baby is born and immediately raped? that scene alone was probably a couple of minutes and if had been deleted wouldn't have made much difference to the film.

    It's not the content my good man. It's the principle of the matter I am on about... and that's censorship.
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    JCRJCR Posts: 24,074
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    That there is the thing pal. I might never see it due to it being cut. I mean what's the point. I saw somewhere that four minutes were cut from the movie. WTF? does anyone have any idea of how much content that is. Four minutes. Jeez oh. It is butchered at a four minute cut!. Four minutes is an eternity in a movie where cuts are involved.

    The last 40 minutes of the film are pretty much all rape scenes; cutting 4 minutes out of it still leaves it pretty rapey by my reckoning.

    The cut version of it is still likely one of the most violent films they've ever passed.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 41
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    JCR wrote: »
    Godwin's law invoked in a thread about A Serbian Film; what are the odds.

    I recommend watching this video before watching ASF Siebenburgen: http://thecinemasnob.com/2010/10/18/reviews-a-serbian-film-jackass-3d.aspx

    I thought the most ridiculous post was when someone asked another poster "Would you rather it had been a real baby?" after they pointed out that it wasn't a real baby being raped. lol Really? What a strange thing to think, let alone say in a public forum. Because someone mentions that something isn't real, that means they wish it was? I must have missed that day of school.
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    JCRJCR Posts: 24,074
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    Bit of an over exaggeration isn't it? do you really feel you're missing out on an important part when a baby is born and immediately raped? that scene alone was probably a couple of minutes and if had been deleted wouldn't have made much difference to the film.

    Most of that scene is still probably in it, less the key shot. I suspect the bbfc may have had more of an issue with the bit where a woman gets her teeth kicked out and is choked to death via penis, because that bit's just nasty, be surprised if any of that's in the UK cut. Also there's a rape scene where the guy cuts the victims head off halfway through and just continues ****ing the corpse, which again, suspect the bbfc may have frowned on. I just guessing what they've cut.

    These really aren't spoilers by the way, you really need to know this stuff before watching it, if you're going to.
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    JCRJCR Posts: 24,074
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    braddavery wrote: »
    I thought the most ridiculous post was when someone asked another poster "Would you rather it had been a real baby?" after they pointed out that it wasn't a real baby being raped. lol Really? What a strange thing to think, let alone say in a public forum. Because someone mentions that something isn't real, that means they wish it was? I must have missed that day of school.

    Funnily enough there has been some debate about this as The Protection of Children Act 1978 is a lot like the Weeping Angels from Doctor Who- An image of child abuse is child abuse, people have been done for CGI images before. Although the bbfc said in their press release that the film wasn't in breach of the Act- I wouldn't have downloaded it if they had said it was- and presumably they had lawyers look at it.
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    KirkfnwKirkfnw Posts: 1,613
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    JCR wrote: »
    I don't agree with it.

    Good... good elaboration there. :p

    So in summary, holier-than-thou JCR doesn't agree with it, but will not debate his views, so that means we should have it cut by four minutes. Daily Mail reader much, JCR? ;)
    The cut version of it is still likely one of the most violent films they've ever passed.

    You really haven't seen many movies then. Not even mentioning Visitor Q, there is Hostel 2, Seed, Irreversible... all a lot more violent. I'm sure there's others people have seen which I didn't bother with. But calling this the most violent? Sorry but I have to "LOL". You still haven't convinced me you've seen the film.

    The Cinema Snob's favourite film is Caligula... nuff said - a film which contains enough rape, violence and torture, and adult scenes which ASF didn't. Kinda hypocritical. At least Spoony gets to know the background of a film before talking about it.
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    wildmovieguywildmovieguy Posts: 8,342
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    JCR wrote: »
    Most of that scene is still probably in it, less the key shot. I suspect the bbfc may have had more of an issue with the bit where a woman gets her teeth kicked out and is choked to death via penis, because that bit's just nasty, be surprised if any of that's in the UK cut. Also there's a rape scene where the guy cuts the victims head off halfway through and just continues ****ing the corpse, which again, suspect the bbfc may have frowned on. I just guessing what they've cut.

    These really aren't spoilers by the way, you really need to know this stuff before watching it, if you're going to.

    So you spoil scenes in the film for people? Do you work for the BBFC?
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 7,305
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    Kirkfnw wrote: »
    You really haven't seen many movies then. Not even mentioning Visitor Q, there is Hostel 2, Seed, Irreversible... all a lot more violent. I'm sure there's others people have seen which I didn't bother with. But calling this the most violent? Sorry but I have to "LOL". You still haven't convinced me you've seen the film.

    I think it's probably one of the most "sexually violent" films, but not necessarily one of the most out and out violent (Irreverisble's fire extinguisher scene probably takes the prize for that one because it's extremely graphic and shocking, whereas stuff like Hostel is just OTT and almost laughable).

    The stuff the BBFC will have taken exception to will be some of the admittedly needless scenes of sexual torture (the baby, the blow job/choke scene, the beheading scene and probably the scene where a character inadvertently rapes a young boy towards the films close), they probably think "what if someone copies this?", so i guess i can see where their point is. And to be fair, the blow job scene in particular really is utterly pointless, it doesn't add anything to the film except for adding to how nasty it is, but regardless i still think that responsible adults should be allowed to choose what they watch without having the BBFC tell them what they can and can't watch. We shouldn't have to resort to importing or illegally downloading to see an uncut film. Censorship is punishing the majority for the sake of a few mentally unstable individuals. If we were to ban everything that could be mis-read/mis-used by someone who is f*cked in the head then we'd all be using plastic cutlery!
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    KirkfnwKirkfnw Posts: 1,613
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    So you spoil scenes in the film for people? Do you work for the BBFC?

    He wishes. But he'd be a good candidate considering his nature on this thread - "I don't agree to it so it shouldn't be allowed to be shown".
    The stuff the BBFC will have taken exception to will be some of the admittedly needless scenes of sexual torture (the baby, the blow job/choke scene, the beheading scene and probably the scene where a character inadvertently rapes a young boy towards the films close), they probably think "what if someone copies this?"

    I don't agree that rape begins with watching a film and convincing someone to do it, especially as this film is CLEARLY pointing out how WRONG the director and his workers were. You're supposed to feel disgust towards them, and the film does a great job at that (I watched past the baby scene as I wanted to see Miloh get redemption).
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 7,305
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    Kirkfnw wrote: »
    I don't agree that rape begins with watching a film and convincing someone to do it, especially as this film is CLEARLY pointing out how WRONG the director and his workers were. You're supposed to feel disgust towards them, and the film does a great job at that (I watched past the baby scene as I wanted to see Miloh get redemption).

    I agree with you, films don't create killers/rapists, the person must already be messed up in order to do it, but the BBFC clearly think that films/games can have a negative effect on people because they believe that these scenes "present a risk of harm" (quoted from their guidelines) to the viewer, otherwise they wouldn't have cut the scenes out.
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    JCRJCR Posts: 24,074
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    Review of A Serbian Film on lovefilm.com, posted by me:

    I have not seen the bbfc approved UK cut, which has 4 minutes 12 seconds cut out of it, this is going off the uncut version, which I can say without hyperbole is the worst film I've ever seen.

    The first hour is deadly dull, with little happening beyond a simple version of the Alice in Wonderland (or The Matrix) 'going down the rabbit hole' plot line. It is not exciting and the acting is poor.

    The final 40 minutes are basically one rape scene after another. There is no connection between you and the characters which basically renders the whole thing meaningless. Also the acting by one character is very over the top, making it ridiculous. At least some parts of it are played for laughs, which just boggles my mind.

    I understand the makers of A Serbian Film have claimed it has a political message. Well unless you think 'in Serbia everyone gets raped' is a deep political message then you'll likely disagree. I think it likely the makers are claiming this because if they admitted it's a silly exploitation movie- which it is- no one would find the content acceptable.

    I don't think it should be cut or banned, but that's only because the bbfc risk turning it into a The Evil Dead/The Exorcist/A Clockwork Orange style legend in the UK through their actions and this film in no way deserves that. I watched this film because it was the day my father died and I wanted something to indulge my bad mood- and it even failed at that- I wouldn't have touched it otherwise, and I would strongly advise you to avoid it. Can't stop you of course, but it's your funeral.

    Review of a Serbian Film posted on IMDB/joblo.com by me:

    This is probably the worst film I've ever seen, and I say that without hyperbole.

    The first hour is deadly dull, with little happening beyond a simple version of the Alice in Wonderland (or The Matrix) "going down the rabbit hole" plot line. It is not exciting and the acting is poor.

    The final 40 minutes are basically one rape scene after another. There is no connection between you and the characters which basically renders the whole thing meaningless. Also the acting by one character is very over the top, making it ridiculous. At least some parts of it are played for laughs, which just boggles my mind.

    I understand the makers of A Serbian Film have claimed it has a political message. Well unless you think 'in Serbia everyone gets raped' is a deep political message then you'll likely disagree. I think it likely the makers are claiming this because if they admitted it's a silly exploitation movie- which it is- no one would find the content acceptable. I don't think it should be cut or banned though, because that just risks turning it into a legend.

    I watched this film because it was the day my father died and I wanted something to indulge my bad mood- and it even failed at that- I wouldn't have touched it otherwise, and I would strongly advise you to avoid it. Can't stop you of course, but it's your funeral.


    I have never said it should be cut or banned and have in fact said exactly the opposite on several sites including melonfarmers. I have no idea why Kirkfnw keeps saying I do, but I don't.

    (Oh and just because I never tire of saying this: The film is a God awful piece of shit!)
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 41
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    I am in the United States, so I am unfamiliar with BBFC. Being unfamiliar with it, it seems like "big brother" to me. I know I can Google it, but can someone give me a quick summary as to what it is?
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    JCRJCR Posts: 24,074
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    braddavery wrote: »
    I am in the United States, so I am unfamiliar with BBFC. Being unfamiliar with it, it seems like "big brother" to me. I know I can Google it, but can someone give me a quick summary as to what it is?

    British version of the mpaa, though they're decisions are legally binding here.
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    JCRJCR Posts: 24,074
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    So you spoil scenes in the film for people? Do you work for the BBFC?

    None of those scenes will be in the UK version; therefore I ain't spoiling it. :p
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 41
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    JCR wrote: »
    British version of the mpaa, though they're decisions are legally binding here.

    MPAA doesn't edit already-made films though. They just apply a rating. You can make and release anything, but it will either have a rating or not have a rating.
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    JCRJCR Posts: 24,074
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    braddavery wrote: »
    MPAA doesn't edit already-made films though. They just apply a rating. You can make and release anything, but it will either have a rating or not have a rating.

    You can't release a film without a rating in the UK.
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