Solution to the obesity problem

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  • BlueEyedMrsPBlueEyedMrsP Posts: 12,178
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    Dr. Linus wrote: »
    The problem with legislating on processed foods is that "processed" is a rather loose term that is very much open to interpretation. It could conceivably cover everything from GM crops to tinned burgers, and I'm not sure how I would define it myself. And not all processed food is actively bad for you, it's just not usually actively good for you either. Having a pizza once a fortnight won't make the slightest difference to your health. So legal enforcement is not the way to go IMO.

    I'd be happy to go with fizzy drinks, sugary cereals, fast food and candy for a start.

    I'm not saying take it out of the stores, just stop shoving it at kids thru advertising and sponsorship. It would also be better if they removed junk from around the pay point at the supermarkets. People can still buy it, they just have to pick it up while they're shopping.
  • StressMonkeyStressMonkey Posts: 13,347
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    For the vast majority of obese people, yes it is. That's the simple truth.

    Sort of - but I wouldn't say it was simple. For anyone.

    If you eat at a calorie deficit the body tries to become more efficient to prepare for hard times. To do this it will cannibalise muscle tissue as well as deplete fat stores because muscle is very expensive calorie wise to maintain compared to fat cells. Without looking it up, IIRC muscle takes 6x more calories to maintain at rest than fat so it makes sense for the body to get rid of muscle if there is a food shortage.

    This loss of muscle is worst if there is no exercise, but will still occur even if you increase activity. Particularly with cardio exercise.

    Losing muscle has two effects. It makes it harder to burn calories/loose weight as the body is now equipped to survive better on less food as there is less calorie burning muscle to maintain. The second effect is perhaps more psychological but you will feel tired and hungry and struggle to maintain the low calorie input. So far more likely to start eating more. And when you eat more after losing muscle, you put on more weight than before. Additionally, on a very low calorie diet you aren't getting all the nutrients a body needs. This is why yo-yo dieting and 'fad' short term diets are so bad for you.

    Physically the solution is to eat a nutritionally dense diet at a calorific input appropriate to your desired weight taking into account activity and ensure you include some resistance exercise such as weight training.

    So, rather than plain 'eat less exercise more' it is 'eat better and do the right exercise'

    However, that is ignoring other factors such as psychology and hormones that do play a major part in obesity & weight/fat loss. And a multi-million pound diet industry pushing their calorie deficit eating plans/low cal products that perpetuate the problem. And a multi-billion pound food industry advertising crap day in day out - cheap, fast, nutritionally sh!te crap being pushed on the nation starting with kids & sugary breakfast cerials, salt ridden lunch boxes and the ar$e end of various animals, machine recovered and coated in additives for tea, all washed down with fizzy pop.


    Solution? Don't know. But proper education - not the dumbed down 'swap sugary drinks for artificial sweetners' cr@p we get now - & curbs on advertising would help.
  • Granny McSmithGranny McSmith Posts: 19,622
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    wampa1 wrote: »
    Those tools are useless indicators. As mentioned many a time, a bodybuilder would be obese by their standards.

    FYI the tool put me in the 'overweight' category at 6ft and 15st so I don't how you would be obese at 13st.

    For my height - 5 foot - the lower end of a "healthy" weight, according to that chart, is 6 stone 11 lb.

    In my opinion this is far too low, and far from healthy. Even when I was a skinny little dab of a thing, I weighed more than that!
  • Dr. LinusDr. Linus Posts: 6,445
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    I'd be happy to go with fizzy drinks, sugary cereals, fast food and candy for a start.

    I'm not saying take it out of the stores, just stop shoving it at kids thru advertising and sponsorship. It would also be better if they removed junk from around the pay point at the supermarkets. People can still buy it, they just have to pick it up while they're shopping.

    Yes I'm with you on that, but speaking practically it just wouldn't work if we had to itemise everything like that. Sweets and Coke are not remotely related to each other in terms of production or contents (apart from sugar) so we would have to specifically put something into law about each item, which wouldn't work as it's just way too subjective. An orange has more sugar than most bars of chocolate, but we wouldn't ban advertisement of them.
  • Dr. LinusDr. Linus Posts: 6,445
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    For my height - 5 foot - the lower end of a "healthy" weight, according to that chart, is 6 stone 11 lb.

    In my opinion this is far too low, and far from healthy. Even when I was a skinny little dab of a thing, I weighed more than that!

    If I knew any normal-sized adult who weighed 6st 11, I would be driving them to the GP right now. That's ridiculous.
  • BlueEyedMrsPBlueEyedMrsP Posts: 12,178
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    Dr. Linus wrote: »
    Yes I'm with you on that, but speaking practically it just wouldn't work if we had to itemise everything like that. Sweets and Coke are not remotely related to each other in terms of production or contents (apart from sugar) so we would have to specifically put something into law about each item, which wouldn't work as it's just way too subjective. An orange has more sugar than most bars of chocolate, but we wouldn't ban advertisement of them.

    I know you mean well, but that comparison drives me batty. We did not become a society with obesity levels in the 30% + range by overeating fruit. It's the junk food, fast food, and too many simple carbs (sugar) that is the problem for most people. If you're talking juice OTOH, I would agree that it's not much better than soda, a lot of sugar and no fibre.
  • Dr. LinusDr. Linus Posts: 6,445
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    I know you mean well, but that comparison drives me batty. We did not become a society with obesity levels in the 30% + range by overeating fruit. It's the junk food, fast food, and too many simple carbs (sugar) that is the problem for most people. If you're talking juice OTOH, I would agree that it's not much better than soda, a lot of sugar and no fibre.

    Oh I know - don't misunderstand me, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Because if we we ever tried to legislate against sugary products, then the orange comparison is exactly what the likes of Coca-Cola and Nestle would say, and there really is no answer to it that isn't really subjective and blurry.
  • StressMonkeyStressMonkey Posts: 13,347
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    Dr. Linus wrote: »
    Yes I'm with you on that, but speaking practically it just wouldn't work if we had to itemise everything like that. Sweets and Coke are not remotely related to each other in terms of production or contents (apart from sugar) so we would have to specifically put something into law about each item, which wouldn't work as it's just way too subjective. An orange has more sugar than most bars of chocolate, but we wouldn't ban advertisement of them.

    Not sure that's true....

    Just a quick google and an orange has 9g sugar per 100g as opposed to 51g of sugar in 100g of Mars bar

    Additionally an orange has loads of dietary fibre which means the fructose (sugar) is absorbed more slowly so the body is better able to deal with it - the pancreas and liver don't chuck hissy fits.

    But otherwise I agree with your post :)
  • BlueEyedMrsPBlueEyedMrsP Posts: 12,178
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    Dr. Linus wrote: »
    Oh I know - don't misunderstand me, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Because if we we ever tried to legislate against sugary products, then the orange comparison is exactly what the likes of Coca-Cola and Nestle would say, and there really is no answer to it that isn't really subjective and blurry.

    And that's why the likes of Coke, Nestle and Pepsi should NOT be allowed to sit on nutritional advisory panels. Their input will always be self-serving to their agenda of getting us to eat and drink their crap, day in and day out. Cereal companies aren't any better, getting that stupid tick mark on their box from the Heart Association, what a load of bollox.

    I know, everything in moderation, right? Well, problem is, a whole lot of us are NOT doing it in moderation. I think the answer to why that is goes beyond greed and sloth.
  • Dr. LinusDr. Linus Posts: 6,445
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    Not sure that's true....

    Just a quick google and an orange has 9g sugar per 100g as opposed to 51g of sugar in 100g of Mars bar

    Additionally an orange has loads of dietary fibre which means the fructose (sugar) is absorbed more slowly so the body is better able to deal with it - the pancreas and liver don't chuck hissy fits.

    But otherwise I agree with your post :)

    I'm pretty sure I meant orange juice. And in any case an orange probably weighs more than a Mars bar, I think?

    But yeah, it was just a random example to illustrate a point about the grey areas of what is good or bad for you. I stand corrected! :)
  • HotgossipHotgossip Posts: 22,385
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    PoppySeed wrote: »
    You've really got it right there. When you see other cultures on TV eating you can see the huge difference between their genuine love of food and our make or grab something quick mentality. Some of our food makes me want to hurl, pasties and chips together yuck I would feel so stodgy after something like that but that's a meal served up to countless kids.

    I've just come back from holiday abroad where there was wonderful,buffet food. It was really eye opening to see what people put on their plates. The range of food was amazing ... Fresh fruits, fish, meats, pasta dishes, curries and rice, every salad you could think of, soups, veggies galore and still you'd see people with literally just a plate piled high with chips. Nothing else just chips.

    Likewise, at breakfast there was fresh fruits, dried fruits, yogurts, cereals, fruit juices, omelettes, scrambled eggs, boiled eggs .... But the most popular seemed to be a plate piled high with toast or bread, a couple of sausages on the side and a fried egg and baked beans.
  • Dr. LinusDr. Linus Posts: 6,445
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    Hotgossip wrote: »
    I've just come back from holiday abroad where there was wonderful,buffet food. It was really eye opening to see what people put on their plates. The range of food was amazing ... Fresh fruits, fish, meats, pasta dishes, curries and rice, every salad you could think of, soups, veggies galore and still you'd see people with literally just a plate piled high with chips. Nothing else just chips.

    Likewise, at breakfast there was fresh fruits, dried fruits, yogurts, cereals, fruit juices, omelettes, scrambled eggs, boiled eggs .... But the most popular seemed to be a plate piled high with toast or bread, a couple of sausages on the side and a fried egg and baked beans.

    I cannot for the life of me understand the appeal of a "full English". Heart attack on a plate which tastes of nothing but salt and slime.
  • Granny McSmithGranny McSmith Posts: 19,622
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    Dr. Linus wrote: »
    I cannot for the life of me understand the appeal of a "full English". Heart attack on a plate which tastes of nothing but salt and slime.

    You've got to be kidding! It's ambrosial.:)
  • alfamalealfamale Posts: 10,309
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    But dont forget even with thin people like myself we are all fighting our own genetics. Id love to eat right now the 2 magnums i have in the freezer.

    Luckily for me i like exercise a lot, but again i believe some people will never like exercise. I read a lab experiment of mice where they were put on treadmills. Something like if they ran on the treadmill they could reach the food in front of them but if they didnt they fell off it and their fur got burnt away as the treadmill continued (you can do these things to mice! . although i wonder who made the mini treadmills!). Anyway all mice chose to sit and have their fur burned off rather than run, thats how much of a predisposition they had to not exercising for the sake of it.

    So we're stuck with obesity until either we truly believe how damaging it is to us, like the decrease in smoking as the risks became more well known - currently we've not seen with our own eyes enough people die from just being 3-4 stone overweight. We still think its only the morbidly obese that have a problem.

    Other than that its ridiculous draconian rules that society would (rightly) reject - no advertising of fast food or chocolate or snacks anywhere. Restrictions on selling certain foods, like cigarettes now, and huge taxes on unhealthy that corporations wouldnt ever let happen. Look at a cigarette company currently suing Australian govt and how Cameron backed down on alcohol minimum pricing.
  • HotgossipHotgossip Posts: 22,385
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    Dr. Linus wrote: »
    I don't know what supermarket you shop at!

    Fresh carrots, tomatoes, mushrooms, new potatoes, onions, spring onions, courgettes, peppers, and beansprouts - these are part of my weekly shop and they cost me less than £10. Add in some meat - about £5 for a couple of portions - along with some carbs like rice, noodles, or pasta, which would come to about £5 and you have enough meals there to last two people most of the week, for roughly £20. As I say, I do this every week. It's a total myth that good food is expensive. Just go for supermarkets' own brands rather than high-end stuff and it costs the same if not less than "easy" stuff.

    I went to Lidl this morning and bought chicken breasts, lean steak mince, some lean pork steaks, loads of salad stuff, fruit and veggies galore, a load of skimmed milk, some diet lemonade, some fresh smoked haddock ... Then stuff like loo rolls, toothpaste, yogurts etc and the whole trolley full was about £43.
  • HotgossipHotgossip Posts: 22,385
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    alfamale wrote: »
    But dont forget even with thin people like myself we are all fighting our own genetics. Id love to eat right now the 2 magnums i have in the freezer.

    Luckily for me i like exercise a lot, but again i believe some people will never like exercise. I read a lab experiment of mice where they were put on treadmills. Something like if they ran on the treadmill they could reach the food in front of them but if they didnt they fell off it and their fur got burnt away as the treadmill continued (you can do these things to mice! . although i wonder who made the mini treadmills!). Anyway all mice chose to sit and have their fur burned off rather than run, thats how much of a predisposition they had to not exercising for the sake of it.

    So we're stuck with obesity until either we truly believe how damaging it is to us, like the decrease in smoking as the risks became more well known - currently we've not seen with our own eyes enough people die from just being 3-4 stone overweight. We still think its only the morbidly obese that have a problem.

    Other than that its ridiculous draconian rules that society would (rightly) reject - no advertising of fast food or chocolate or snacks anywhere. Restrictions on selling certain foods, like cigarettes now, and huge taxes on unhealthy that corporations wouldnt ever let happen. Look at a cigarette company currently suing Australian govt and how Cameron backed down on alcohol minimum pricing.

    You're right ... It is about self control. We don't even buy stuff likes biscuits and crisps because if they're in the house we'd eat them.

    regarding the exercise ... I have a friend who is a nurse in a GP practice. all her family are tall and slim, as are her kids and they don't have to watch what they eat. She is quite a heavy drinker and does no exercise yet she is constantly running down overweight people.

    I told her that many overweight people do a lot more exercise than she does and I suggested to her that rather than driving to work she should get her bike out and cycle ..... It's not even a mile to her work and there's even a cycle path. She went bright red and made some excuses. She doesn't realise how lucky she is to come from a naturally slim family.
  • EbonyHamsterEbonyHamster Posts: 8,175
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    Not all of us are able to cook so convenience foods are a must

    Much better to get off peoples backs, help the ones that want to lose weight and are struggling and stop nagging those that are happy how they are
  • liftmasterliftmaster Posts: 674
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    Not all of us are able to cook so convenience foods are a must

    Much better to get off peoples backs, help the ones that want to lose weight and are struggling and stop nagging those that are happy how they are

    Instead of sitting on here for hours per day, just learn some basic cooking skills......not that hard.
  • EbonyHamsterEbonyHamster Posts: 8,175
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    liftmaster wrote: »
    Instead of sitting on here for hours per day, just learn some basic cooking skills......not that hard.

    You missed the point

    I know how to cook, I'm not physically able to though

    And I'm not on here for hours a day, I'm on and off
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,227
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    You missed the point

    I know how to cook, I'm not physically able to though

    And I'm not on here for hours a day, I'm on and off

    Why's that?
  • EbonyHamsterEbonyHamster Posts: 8,175
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    zx50 wrote: »
    Why's that?

    Because of my disability
  • PoppySeedPoppySeed Posts: 2,483
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    Dr. Linus wrote: »
    I cannot for the life of me understand the appeal of a "full English". Heart attack on a plate which tastes of nothing but salt and slime.

    Rubbish. You can grill the bacon and sausages and poach or scramble the egg if you want to go the healthier route. My full english's never taste slimy, they're yummy. I only have them once in a while though.
  • PoppySeedPoppySeed Posts: 2,483
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    Hotgossip wrote: »
    I've just come back from holiday abroad where there was wonderful,buffet food. It was really eye opening to see what people put on their plates. The range of food was amazing ... Fresh fruits, fish, meats, pasta dishes, curries and rice, every salad you could think of, soups, veggies galore and still you'd see people with literally just a plate piled high with chips. Nothing else just chips.

    Likewise, at breakfast there was fresh fruits, dried fruits, yogurts, cereals, fruit juices, omelettes, scrambled eggs, boiled eggs .... But the most popular seemed to be a plate piled high with toast or bread, a couple of sausages on the side and a fried egg and baked beans.

    You should see what people pile on their plates in America at the breakfast buffet:o
  • EbonyHamsterEbonyHamster Posts: 8,175
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    Hotgossip wrote: »
    I've just come back from holiday abroad where there was wonderful,buffet food. It was really eye opening to see what people put on their plates. The range of food was amazing ... Fresh fruits, fish, meats, pasta dishes, curries and rice, every salad you could think of, soups, veggies galore and still you'd see people with literally just a plate piled high with chips. Nothing else just chips.

    Likewise, at breakfast there was fresh fruits, dried fruits, yogurts, cereals, fruit juices, omelettes, scrambled eggs, boiled eggs .... But the most popular seemed to be a plate piled high with toast or bread, a couple of sausages on the side and a fried egg and baked beans.

    So what? Not everyone likes the types of food you listed
  • PoppySeedPoppySeed Posts: 2,483
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    Dr. Linus wrote: »
    If I knew any normal-sized adult who weighed 6st 11, I would be driving them to the GP right now. That's ridiculous.

    Those type of charts are put together by insurance companies I think, rather than medics. They always seem way off.
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