I'm not sure what we're supposed to take away from that story or what the facts of the matter might be.
Are they trying to say that radiation isn't actually harmful after all?
Are they suggesting that animals are somehow immune to radiation in a way that we aren't?
Are they suggesting that animals around Chernobyl have evolved to become immune to radiation?
And then there's the issue of why it might actually be happening.
Do we know that animals aren't actually suffering from radiation-related diseases or is it simply that they're flourishing now compared to when the area was populated by humans even though a heap of them ARE dying of radiation-related diseases?
Animals have such a shorter lifespan than humans, so I guess the effects aren't as noticeable, can't see how they would be accelerated just because of their shorter lifespan.
I'm not sure what we're supposed to take away from that story or what the facts of the matter might be.
Are they trying to say that radiation isn't actually harmful after all?
Are they suggesting that animals are somehow immune to radiation in a way that we aren't?
Are they suggesting that animals around Chernobyl have evolved to become immune to radiation?
No. They are pointing out that the damage appears to have been short term and that populations have recovered and are now thriving. One big difference is that long life time of humans though. It may be that the contamination only affected the first two or three generations of animals but the first two or three generations of a human population is going to be over a hundred years. Then again animals will be eating indiscriminately. Humans have the intelligence, knowledge and tools to avoid eating food that is contaminated.
All in all what I think it's saying (and what other studies seem to show) is that if you keep clean and avoid the initial 'fall out' there is no reason to declare such an area 'uninhabitable'. 'Habitable with care' would be fine and since most humans don't live off the immediate land it probably means that a typical 21st century town/city dweller would have little to nothing to fear if they lived in that area. It might be wise to keep children away or under more close supervision but really it just comes down to 'don't eat anything that came from around here'.
There's little doubt that the radiation is having some sort of damaging effect on plant and animal life.
But no evidence that it's of any significance to the population. Everything has a damaging effect on plant and animal life. Even oxygen does. But what this and other articles are showing is that radiation is not harmful to the population as a whole. The mere presence of humans is far, far more damaging.
Animals have such a shorter lifespan than humans, so I guess the effects aren't as noticeable, can't see how they would be accelerated just because of their shorter lifespan.
Not all non-human animals. Some animals can live far longer than humans do.
I can't see many whales frolicking in the pools dotted around Chernobyl. Maybe I was a bit vague, but I was referring to the mammals that are currently thriving in the area. My apologies.
I can't see many whales frolicking in the pools dotted around Chernobyl. Maybe I was a bit vague, but I was referring to the mammals that are currently thriving in the area. My apologies.
Ha ha.
I'm sure I spotted a giant tortoise in one of those photos.
It's also worth noting (because not everyone understands this) that radiation is not 'infectious'. By that I mean that if you take away the source of the radiation the damage stops. It's extremely difficult to make organic material radioactive. It's also true that the most damaging radiation has the shortest half life and most of what's left now can't penetrate your clothing or get beyond the outer layers of your skin.
The only real risks now are:
* Standing too close to the original site because there's still some radiation being emitted from there that can penetrate clothing.
* Ingesting radioactive particles. Plants and animal tissues are not radioactive but they can pick up radioactive particles and if you get those into your body that can be a problem. However they are a problem simply because you can't wash them away if they are inside and as such it's no more different to ingesting any other toxic substance.
I can't see many whales frolicking in the pools dotted around Chernobyl. Maybe I was a bit vague, but I was referring to the mammals that are currently thriving in the area. My apologies.
I can't see many whales frolicking in the pools dotted around Chernobyl. Maybe I was a bit vague, but I was referring to the mammals that are currently thriving in the area. My apologies.
It's what humans wil eventually evolve into and what'll happen once humanity mastars time. inter dimensional and space travel I often wonder about.
I think going into space for a holiday will start to become cheaper as the decades go by. It'll probably take a LONG time before it becomes cheap enough for even wealthy celebrities to be able to easily afford to. I think it would be an utterly amazing and mind-blowing experience to be actually able to see different parts of the universe instead of just seeing images in books/magazines. Saying this though, I think virtual reality will give us the next best thing when it becomes cheap enough for everyone to buy. I think 'seeing the universe' through a virtual reality headset that had a full HD resolution would still feel amazing in a way (where the program allowed you to stay as long as you liked at a certain thing, or go backwards or forwards, and right around it). But yeah, being able to see things, even the planets in this solar system, would be a breathtaking experience. However, as you say, we have to master space travel first before we can experience what would be utterly amazing. Even just thinking about it gets me excited.
I can't see many whales frolicking in the pools dotted around Chernobyl. Maybe I was a bit vague, but I was referring to the mammals that are currently thriving in the area. My apologies.
Watch Chernobyl Diaries and you'll find out what happened to the whales. But Chernobyl's quite neat. There is evidence of damage/mutation, but other stuff is surviving better than expected.
But yeah, being able to see things, even the planets in this solar system, would be a breathtaking experience. However, as you say, we have to master space travel first before we can experience what would be utterly amazing. Even just thinking about it gets me excited.
Yep. But.. imagine being on a tour of the solar system, in economy, with a load of kids going 'Are we there yet?'. And those kids were the kids of kids who started the trip with your grandparents..
Problem with space is it's just too damn big (tm D.Adams) until we invent some drive system to significantly shorten journey times. Or just sleep through the trip.
Yep. But.. imagine being on a tour of the solar system, in economy, with a load of kids going 'Are we there yet?'. And those kids were the kids of kids who started the trip with your grandparents..
Have you seen 'Ascension'? That had a really quite neat initial premise. That in the 1960s NASA secretly launched a nuclear powered generation ship and the show was set in the 1990s when someone is murdered aboard the vessel. It was really quite spooky to imagine that really being true and that somewhere out there are a few hundred people and their children who left Earth in the 1960s.
It was really quite spooky to imagine that really being true and that somewhere out there are a few hundred people and their children who left Earth in the 1960s.
Not seen it, but knew about Orion (it could work!) and read quite a few SF books about generation ships. Plus wrote about some fun. So you're on the 1st generation Generation ship, heading off with bold plans to colonise the new world and make your destiny. You arrive at your destination only to find that Gen 3-5 have got there waaay ahead of you, are significantly more advanced and taken the best spots on the beach. Could be a tad frustrating
It's fun reading some of the stuff NASA, ESA etc put out about the challenges of long duration space flights though.
Might be interesting to read the study that story is based upon.
I wonder if they bothered to tag any of the animals and track their movements via GPS?
I'd be interested to know if the animals are smart enough to have realised they get sick if they go near enough to the plant that they're directly exposed to radiation?
It's not like it's immediately lethal so, through trial and error, it's plausible that a lot of the animals might've figured out just how close they can get without getting sick.
It's not like it's immediately lethal so, through trial and error, it's plausible that a lot of the animals might've figured out just how close they can get without getting sick.
Could be. Would be interesting to know. I also wonder how close and for how long is safe? There are concrete walls and it has been 30 years.
Yep. But.. imagine being on a tour of the solar system, in economy, with a load of kids going 'Are we there yet?'. And those kids were the kids of kids who started the trip with your grandparents..
Problem with space is it's just too damn big (tm D.Adams) until we invent some drive system to significantly shorten journey times. Or just sleep through the trip.
Yes, we need to be able to master how to travel to somewhere in space in an amount of time that would be completely acceptable. The distances to objects outside of the solar system, even at lightspeed, is just way, WAY beyond our lifetimes.
himerus
Posts: 3,040
Comments
Are they trying to say that radiation isn't actually harmful after all?
Are they suggesting that animals are somehow immune to radiation in a way that we aren't?
Are they suggesting that animals around Chernobyl have evolved to become immune to radiation?
And then there's the issue of why it might actually be happening.
Do we know that animals aren't actually suffering from radiation-related diseases or is it simply that they're flourishing now compared to when the area was populated by humans even though a heap of them ARE dying of radiation-related diseases?
All in all what I think it's saying (and what other studies seem to show) is that if you keep clean and avoid the initial 'fall out' there is no reason to declare such an area 'uninhabitable'. 'Habitable with care' would be fine and since most humans don't live off the immediate land it probably means that a typical 21st century town/city dweller would have little to nothing to fear if they lived in that area. It might be wise to keep children away or under more close supervision but really it just comes down to 'don't eat anything that came from around here'. But no evidence that it's of any significance to the population. Everything has a damaging effect on plant and animal life. Even oxygen does. But what this and other articles are showing is that radiation is not harmful to the population as a whole. The mere presence of humans is far, far more damaging.
Not all non-human animals. Some animals can live far longer than humans do.
http://10mosttoday.com/10-longest-life-span-animals/
I can't see many whales frolicking in the pools dotted around Chernobyl. Maybe I was a bit vague, but I was referring to the mammals that are currently thriving in the area. My apologies.
Ha ha.
I'm sure I spotted a giant tortoise in one of those photos.
The only real risks now are:
* Standing too close to the original site because there's still some radiation being emitted from there that can penetrate clothing.
* Ingesting radioactive particles. Plants and animal tissues are not radioactive but they can pick up radioactive particles and if you get those into your body that can be a problem. However they are a problem simply because you can't wash them away if they are inside and as such it's no more different to ingesting any other toxic substance.
Yes, I think maybe you were.
I think going into space for a holiday will start to become cheaper as the decades go by. It'll probably take a LONG time before it becomes cheap enough for even wealthy celebrities to be able to easily afford to. I think it would be an utterly amazing and mind-blowing experience to be actually able to see different parts of the universe instead of just seeing images in books/magazines. Saying this though, I think virtual reality will give us the next best thing when it becomes cheap enough for everyone to buy. I think 'seeing the universe' through a virtual reality headset that had a full HD resolution would still feel amazing in a way (where the program allowed you to stay as long as you liked at a certain thing, or go backwards or forwards, and right around it). But yeah, being able to see things, even the planets in this solar system, would be a breathtaking experience. However, as you say, we have to master space travel first before we can experience what would be utterly amazing. Even just thinking about it gets me excited.
Watch Chernobyl Diaries and you'll find out what happened to the whales. But Chernobyl's quite neat. There is evidence of damage/mutation, but other stuff is surviving better than expected.
Yep. But.. imagine being on a tour of the solar system, in economy, with a load of kids going 'Are we there yet?'. And those kids were the kids of kids who started the trip with your grandparents..
Problem with space is it's just too damn big (tm D.Adams) until we invent some drive system to significantly shorten journey times. Or just sleep through the trip.
http://www.space.com/28013-ascension-syfy-tv-miniseries-project-orion.html
Not seen it, but knew about Orion (it could work!) and read quite a few SF books about generation ships. Plus wrote about some fun. So you're on the 1st generation Generation ship, heading off with bold plans to colonise the new world and make your destiny. You arrive at your destination only to find that Gen 3-5 have got there waaay ahead of you, are significantly more advanced and taken the best spots on the beach. Could be a tad frustrating
It's fun reading some of the stuff NASA, ESA etc put out about the challenges of long duration space flights though.
I wonder if they bothered to tag any of the animals and track their movements via GPS?
I'd be interested to know if the animals are smart enough to have realised they get sick if they go near enough to the plant that they're directly exposed to radiation?
It's not like it's immediately lethal so, through trial and error, it's plausible that a lot of the animals might've figured out just how close they can get without getting sick.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_New_Safe_Confinement#Safety
But that's really close. Given the nature of the work I assume that walking around the perimeter isn't that bad.
Yes, we need to be able to master how to travel to somewhere in space in an amount of time that would be completely acceptable. The distances to objects outside of the solar system, even at lightspeed, is just way, WAY beyond our lifetimes.