Government not bothering with the Commons to pass Laws

DotheboyshallDotheboyshall Posts: 40,583
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Changes to Electoral Register registration
Fracking under National Parks
Withdrawal of Winter Fuel Allowance for British pensioners living abroad
£4bn of cuts to Tax Credits
Removing maintenance grants for poor students
Bringing back fox hunting in England

All reached the Lords without being passed in the Commons - effectively making the Lords the only place where they can be opposed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-accused-of-waging-war-on-parliament-by-forcing-through-key-legal-changes-without-debate-a6820176.html

Since 2010 around 3000 laws a year have been passed this way, that's 50% up from the Labour years

Comments

  • plateletplatelet Posts: 26,375
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    Is there anything in the SI legislation that states it has to go to the commons before the lords rather than after it?

    As far as I understand it SI's are not open for amendment like normal acts, so it's simply a case of debating and accepting or rejecting. The Lords don't need to wait on the commoners to make that call and if for example they boot out the fox hunting SI there's no point trying to rally the troops for it and taking on the SNP
  • David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    That graph in the link implies things are broadly back to where they were before the Coalition. And it's certainly not showing "more than 3,000 today".
  • nomad2kingnomad2king Posts: 8,415
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    Changes to Electoral Register registration
    Fracking under National Parks
    Withdrawal of Winter Fuel Allowance for British pensioners living abroad
    £4bn of cuts to Tax Credits
    Removing maintenance grants for poor students
    Bringing back fox hunting in England

    All reached the Lords without being passed in the Commons - effectively making the Lords the only place where they can be opposed.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-accused-of-waging-war-on-parliament-by-forcing-through-key-legal-changes-without-debate-a6820176.html

    Since 2010 around 3000 laws a year have been passed this way, that's 50% up from the Labour years
    Amendments to existing legislation don't necessarily require primary legislation. If Labour brought in a law using primary legislation then ANY government can usually use a SI to amend it.
  • deptfordbakerdeptfordbaker Posts: 22,368
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    Can't the courts rule secondary legislation illegal?

    It's always safer to go for primary legislation as it can't be ruled illigal by the courts.

    If the primary legislation gives the government power to enact secondary legislation then they are doing nothing wrong.
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    The Tories have nothing but contempt for democracy.
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    So the Tories get a wafer thin majority from the public not allowing them to do what they like, so they just bye pass parliament and do what they like.
  • deptfordbakerdeptfordbaker Posts: 22,368
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    So the Tories get a wafer thin majority from the public not allowing them to do what they like, so they just bye pass parliament and do what they like.

    So are you saying that Labour has never done that then?
  • MTUK1MTUK1 Posts: 20,077
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    Changes to Electoral Register registration
    Fracking under National Parks
    Withdrawal of Winter Fuel Allowance for British pensioners living abroad
    £4bn of cuts to Tax Credits
    Removing maintenance grants for poor students
    Bringing back fox hunting in England

    All reached the Lords without being passed in the Commons - effectively making the Lords the only place where they can be opposed.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-accused-of-waging-war-on-parliament-by-forcing-through-key-legal-changes-without-debate-a6820176.html

    Since 2010 around 3000 laws a year have been passed this way, that's 50% up from the Labour years

    The majority of laws are made by our masters in Brussels.
  • Steve_James1Steve_James1 Posts: 346
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    MTUK1 wrote: »
    The majority of laws are made by our masters in Brussels.
    Got any proof? How about some examples?
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    So are you saying that Labour has never done that then?

    Probably at some point, but I cant remember the last time they were in power with the smallest of small majorities.

    In recent times they've had a massive to large mandate from the public, the Tories don't have that they scraped together a wafer of wafer thin majorities.
  • clinchclinch Posts: 11,574
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    So are you saying that Labour has never done that then?

    Doesn't matter which party the Government represents - they shouldn't be introducing laws without seeking the consent of the elected representatives of the people.
  • MTUK1MTUK1 Posts: 20,077
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    Got any proof? How about some examples?

    Google it.
  • allaortaallaorta Posts: 19,050
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    Probably at some point, but I cant remember the last time they were in power with the smallest of small majorities.

    In recent times they've had a massive to large mandate from the public, the Tories don't have that they scraped together a wafer of wafer thin majorities.

    So your knowledge of Labour's political history is zilch, even recent history?
  • plateletplatelet Posts: 26,375
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    So are you saying that Labour has never done that then?
    Jol44 wrote: »
    Probably at some point, but I cant remember the last time they were in power with the smallest of small majorities.

    Size has nothing to do with it.

    Under Blair + Brown they used SI at least 22,700 times. Probably closer to 25,000 - but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on their first year as I can't be arsed to work out which were under the previous government.

    Not giving Cameron the same benefit of the doubt and blaming him for all of 2010's they current clock in at 18,260

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi

    So Labour showed their contempt for democracy over four thousand times more than the Tories so far. Must make you proud :D
  • DotheboyshallDotheboyshall Posts: 40,583
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    platelet wrote: »
    Size has nothing to do with it.

    Under Blair + Brown they used SI at least 22,700 times. Probably closer to 25,000 - but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on their first year as I can't be arsed to work out which were under the previous government.

    Not giving Cameron the same benefit of the doubt and blaming him for all of 2010's they current clock in at 18,260

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi

    So Labour showed their contempt for Democracy 4,440 times more than the Tories so far. Must make you proud :D
    2000 a year under Labour, 3000 a year under the Tories.
  • plateletplatelet Posts: 26,375
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    2000 a year under Labour, 3000 a year under the Tories.

    Yep, it's nice to see a more efficent government, though C- for last year as they fell to Labour productivity levels.

    Actually maybe we're not giving the Lib Dems enough credit here, the rise appears entirely on their watch?
  • David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    2000 a year under Labour, 3000 a year under the Tories.

    Nope.

    2,000 a year under Labour
    3,000 a year under the Coalition
    2,000 a year under the Tories.
  • allaortaallaorta Posts: 19,050
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    David Tee wrote: »
    Nope.

    2,000 a year under Labour
    3,000 a year under the Coalition
    2,000 a year under the Tories.

    :D:D:D.....very clever.
  • David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    allaorta wrote: »
    :D:D:D.....very clever.

    ;-)

    The point is that the time to have had a beef about this was over a year ago. As of now, we appear to be back to where things were.
  • plateletplatelet Posts: 26,375
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    David Tee wrote: »
    Nope.

    2,000 a year under Labour
    3,000 a year under the Coalition
    2,000 a year under the Tories.

    Good job we don't have proportional representation then. By that evidence an increase in the likelihood of coalitions would be bad for democracy :D
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,564
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    MTUK1 wrote: »
    Google it.

    Cop-out!
  • MTUK1MTUK1 Posts: 20,077
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    jjwales wrote: »
    Cop-out!

    No. It's obvious that Brussels makes most laws.
  • BrokenArrowBrokenArrow Posts: 21,665
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    clinch wrote: »
    Doesn't matter which party the Government represents - they shouldn't be introducing laws without seeking the consent of the elected representatives of the people.

    They are not introducing laws.
  • ringleaderlonringleaderlon Posts: 2,043
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    They are not introducing laws.

    Once a law is in place it can be amended as the current government sees fit.

    For example now the bag tax is in any government can change the rate without asking parliament .

    So if the current government said for example we will bring in a sugar tax but it will never be more than 5% and it got through parliament any future government can change that rate to 5000% if it wished as once a law is passed they do not need parliaments approval to amend it.

    So it isn't the Tories avoiding democracy it's the law of the land, if Labour were to get in in 2020 they could change any law without parliament approval they could not create a law without parliament.

    One of the example stated tax credits well tax credits were changed in the budget which is approved by parliament so that needs removing for a start.
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,564
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    MTUK1 wrote: »
    No. It's obvious that Brussels makes most laws.

    And yet there's no proof of this.
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